MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Primoz
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Primoz 8/15/2021 12:42pm
8/15/2021 12:42pm
'It's not stupid if it works'...

Regarding the Meta, throw a high pivot on the AM (as in enduro race bike), stick to the conventional layout on the TR?
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LookinForIt 8/15/2021 2:09pm
8/15/2021 2:09pm
metadave wrote:
That's some Balfa level home depot hardware on that link 😂. One step above carriage bolts. But really, absolutely love to see this bike evolve over...
That's some Balfa level home depot hardware on that link 😂. One step above carriage bolts.

But really, absolutely love to see this bike evolve over the years in such a non year by year way. Commmencal just do it when it's an advantage to racing and not because "it's time for the new one". The current surpreme and this proto both mixing it up at the top proves how much effort they put into their teams and bikes. Also always awesome to see Max waiting at the bottom for his riders to come down at almost every race.

I've heard murmurs of a high pivot Meta AM proto kicking around as well.
High pivot like the Supreme SX was? Or Virtual High Pivot like this prototype is?
TheShortestCharles 8/15/2021 2:37pm
8/15/2021 2:37pm
LookinForIt wrote:
High pivot like the Supreme SX was? Or Virtual High Pivot like this prototype is?
Man I miss the Supreme SX...Commencal's HSP design would work really well with a short, straight seat tube (for long dropper posts). I wouldn't be surprised if they use it for a new Meta AM or possibly something with a bit more travel (think the new Range), since the AM was just refreshed last year. From what I can tell, Commencal's "virtual high pivot" six-bar design requires a fair bit of space where a straight, steep seat tube would be, which for me would be less desirable the farther away from a DH bike you go in terms of travel (Yeti's upcoming six-bar design has the 'connecting' link split around the seat tube, but that seems like it could lead to stiffness/flex issues).
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brash
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brash 8/15/2021 2:59pm
8/15/2021 2:59pm
I've been on the search for an XL Supreme Sx frame for years, seems like they made barely any of them.
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melonhead1145 8/15/2021 3:10pm
8/15/2021 3:10pm
Primoz wrote:
@sspomer paint protection? I've seen bikes being rubbed there from the knee pads, seeing it's a special paint scheme, might be a bit of protection goping...
@sspomer paint protection? I've seen bikes being rubbed there from the knee pads, seeing it's a special paint scheme, might be a bit of protection goping on.

In other news, an absolute legend of a person shared this with me:


Do we have any info on the rotors?
Galfer prototype rotors only for the muc off commencal team. Fins on the inside said to reduce heat
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peecee
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peecee 8/15/2021 4:25pm
8/15/2021 4:25pm
sspomer wrote:
another pic. is it a pad? [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/08/15/11306/s1200_Screen_Shot_2021_08_15_at_8.39.52_AM.jpg[/img]
another pic. is it a pad?



In one of the BTS vids he was saying how bright the sun was in and out of the trees maybe the bike was that bright he wasn’t to avoid the reflections off it ?
metadave
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metadave 8/15/2021 5:38pm
8/15/2021 5:38pm Edited Date/Time 8/15/2021 5:38pm
metadave wrote:
That's some Balfa level home depot hardware on that link 😂. One step above carriage bolts. But really, absolutely love to see this bike evolve over...
That's some Balfa level home depot hardware on that link 😂. One step above carriage bolts.

But really, absolutely love to see this bike evolve over the years in such a non year by year way. Commmencal just do it when it's an advantage to racing and not because "it's time for the new one". The current surpreme and this proto both mixing it up at the top proves how much effort they put into their teams and bikes. Also always awesome to see Max waiting at the bottom for his riders to come down at almost every race.

I've heard murmurs of a high pivot Meta AM proto kicking around as well.
LookinForIt wrote:
High pivot like the Supreme SX was? Or Virtual High Pivot like this prototype is?
Cannot confirm which, it was just suggested by a local rider on the know last week.
Primoz
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Primoz 8/15/2021 9:13pm
8/15/2021 9:13pm
LookinForIt wrote:
High pivot like the Supreme SX was? Or Virtual High Pivot like this prototype is?
TheShortestCharles wrote:
Man I miss the Supreme SX...Commencal's HSP design would work really well with a short, straight seat tube (for long dropper posts). I wouldn't be surprised...
Man I miss the Supreme SX...Commencal's HSP design would work really well with a short, straight seat tube (for long dropper posts). I wouldn't be surprised if they use it for a new Meta AM or possibly something with a bit more travel (think the new Range), since the AM was just refreshed last year. From what I can tell, Commencal's "virtual high pivot" six-bar design requires a fair bit of space where a straight, steep seat tube would be, which for me would be less desirable the farther away from a DH bike you go in terms of travel (Yeti's upcoming six-bar design has the 'connecting' link split around the seat tube, but that seems like it could lead to stiffness/flex issues).
The connecting link shouldn't be put under much load (and tension and compression only at that), so it shouldn't matter that much. Look at the size of the link on the Supreme and on Felt bikes.
Verbl Kint
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Verbl Kint 8/15/2021 11:31pm
8/15/2021 11:31pm
I wonder whose idea it was. Surely the team knew it was a rough track. I wonder if the powers that be in GT's boardrooms decided to bring the bike to Maribor just to prop up the recent PR blitz on the new Force release.

And does this mean they're back on the Fury for Val di Sole?


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baronKanon 8/15/2021 11:43pm
8/15/2021 11:43pm
Maybe it is the bike he knows the best?
melonhead1145 8/15/2021 11:44pm
8/15/2021 11:44pm
Verbl Kint wrote:
I wonder whose idea it was. Surely the team knew it was a rough track. I wonder if the powers that be in GT's boardrooms decided...
I wonder whose idea it was. Surely the team knew it was a rough track. I wonder if the powers that be in GT's boardrooms decided to bring the bike to Maribor just to prop up the recent PR blitz on the new Force release.

And does this mean they're back on the Fury for Val di Sole?


From what I've read it sounds like it was Martin's idea, the rest of the team were on the fury. I wonder if he thought he would be more comfortable on the enduro bike as he probably hasn't ridden his DH bike since last season.
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Nico_Ofner 8/16/2021 2:16am
8/16/2021 2:16am
Primoz wrote:
I'm going through the Les Gets pit bits (because Galfer rotors...), did anybody notice the difference in the linkages between the factory team and Angel's bike...
I'm going through the Les Gets pit bits (because Galfer rotors...), did anybody notice the difference in the linkages between the factory team and Angel's bike?


Don't know if anybody posted this before but I saw the factory bike at Maribor and it had a sticker on the frame that said 190mm travel.
bike_futurist 8/16/2021 3:41am
8/16/2021 3:41am Edited Date/Time 8/16/2021 3:42am
Verbl Kint wrote:
I wonder whose idea it was. Surely the team knew it was a rough track. I wonder if the powers that be in GT's boardrooms decided...
I wonder whose idea it was. Surely the team knew it was a rough track. I wonder if the powers that be in GT's boardrooms decided to bring the bike to Maribor just to prop up the recent PR blitz on the new Force release.

And does this mean they're back on the Fury for Val di Sole?


hubris maybe? The downfall of many. Like MVDP being an "expert bike handler" and "not needing a dropper like the rest"
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melonhead1145 8/16/2021 6:45am
8/16/2021 6:45am
Shock bolt position seems to be the main difference in those pictures. Perhaps one is for a mullet setup and one for full 29?
Primoz
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Primoz 8/16/2021 6:58am
8/16/2021 6:58am
Or shock ETE? Maybe imperial vs. metric?
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sspomer
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sspomer 8/16/2021 9:06am
8/16/2021 9:06am
some of myriam's bike from maribor


4
Fred_Pop
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Fred_Pop 8/16/2021 9:32am
8/16/2021 9:32am
hitar_potar wrote:
Uhm, you guys are forgeting about the non-metric 230x70 size… There’s a guy in the EMTB forums that put such a size on his 2020 Kenevo...
Uhm, you guys are forgeting about the non-metric 230x70 size… There’s a guy in the EMTB forums that put such a size on his 2020 Kenevo and made it a 200mm-travel emtb-beast. So things are possible! Wink
230x70 is metric. 222x70 is the old 8.75x2.75in and would fit!
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baronKanon 8/16/2021 9:47am
8/16/2021 9:47am
Fred_Pop wrote:
230x70 is metric. 222x70 is the old 8.75x2.75in and would fit!
Thing is: there is no 70mm stroke metric shock available, as the purpose of the whole metric system is to ensure proportional bushing overlap and air can size as shocks get longer. To get a 70mm metric shock, you need to go for a 250x75, limited to 70mm stroke.
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1
mwolpin
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mwolpin 8/16/2021 10:40am
8/16/2021 10:40am
Verbl Kint wrote:
I wonder whose idea it was. Surely the team knew it was a rough track. I wonder if the powers that be in GT's boardrooms decided...
I wonder whose idea it was. Surely the team knew it was a rough track. I wonder if the powers that be in GT's boardrooms decided to bring the bike to Maribor just to prop up the recent PR blitz on the new Force release.

And does this mean they're back on the Fury for Val di Sole?


melonhead1145 wrote:
From what I've read it sounds like it was Martin's idea, the rest of the team were on the fury. I wonder if he thought he...
From what I've read it sounds like it was Martin's idea, the rest of the team were on the fury. I wonder if he thought he would be more comfortable on the enduro bike as he probably hasn't ridden his DH bike since last season.
I remember reading somewhere that it was Martin's idea because he likes more maneuverability.
1
mixmastamikal
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mixmastamikal 8/16/2021 12:01pm
8/16/2021 12:01pm
hitar_potar wrote:
Uhm, you guys are forgeting about the non-metric 230x70 size… There’s a guy in the EMTB forums that put such a size on his 2020 Kenevo...
Uhm, you guys are forgeting about the non-metric 230x70 size… There’s a guy in the EMTB forums that put such a size on his 2020 Kenevo and made it a 200mm-travel emtb-beast. So things are possible! Wink
mixmastamikal wrote:
Do you have a link to that? I don't believe that is physically possible with any of the shocks I have seen on the market. Also...
Do you have a link to that? I don't believe that is physically possible with any of the shocks I have seen on the market. Also if it was done I would be pretty concerned about the bushing overlap (or lack thereof), especially considering that it is on a yoke link specialized that that will side load the F out of shocks.
Jakub_G wrote:
You remember the good old 222x70mm shocks that worked absolutely fine, right? Now, how and why adding 8mm to E2E would make it works less fine...
You remember the good old 222x70mm shocks that worked absolutely fine, right? Now, how and why adding 8mm to E2E would make it works less fine? Yes, I don´t see the reason either.
This is a fair point. However I am not sure that it translates to the internal geometry of the metric shocks so well. It could but I have no idea.
meow
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meow 8/16/2021 2:05pm
8/16/2021 2:05pm
wheelbased.com has some good articles on the yeti suspension patents which match the photos of the new bike pretty well so far. More on the overall layout than kinematic specifics, but good reading if you're hunting for more info.

He's got a supporting article on the differences between the commencal and yeti 6-bar systems as well, as they're pretty visually similar.
1
DonutMTB
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DonutMTB 8/16/2021 3:14pm
8/16/2021 3:14pm Edited Date/Time 8/16/2021 3:18pm
New top fuel dropping in a few months.
frame storage on carbon and alu frames.
66° head angle, 435mm chainstays, knock block 2.0


edit: also up +5mm rear travel
9
grambo
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grambo 8/17/2021 12:39am
8/17/2021 12:39am


New Spartan with Fox 40's or is it a Spartan front triangle with the prototype Wilson high pivot rear end? Probably the former.
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Brian_Peterson 8/17/2021 6:59am
8/17/2021 6:59am
DonutMTB wrote:
New top fuel dropping in a few months. frame storage on carbon and alu frames. 66° head angle, 435mm chainstays, knock block 2.0 [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/08/16/11313/s1200_topfuel7_1.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/08/16/11314/s1200_SmartSelect_20210816_181044_Instagram.jpg[/img] edit...
New top fuel dropping in a few months.
frame storage on carbon and alu frames.
66° head angle, 435mm chainstays, knock block 2.0


edit: also up +5mm rear travel
That new Top Fuel looks like a great bike for my local trails...Trek did everything I would have done to a Top Fuel and added a bit of travel...
NateMob
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NateMob 8/17/2021 7:08am
8/17/2021 7:08am
Now thread the BB.
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3
Brian_Peterson 8/17/2021 7:15am
8/17/2021 7:15am
NateMob wrote:
Now thread the BB.
Trek has been switching to the T47 BB on some of the new bikes... I didn't look on this one..
NateMob
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NateMob 8/17/2021 7:23am
8/17/2021 7:23am
NateMob wrote:
Now thread the BB.
Brian_Peterson wrote:
Trek has been switching to the T47 BB on some of the new bikes... I didn't look on this one..
Interesting, any inherent advantages to this newer standard over a BSA bb?
willsmooth18 8/17/2021 7:33am
8/17/2021 7:33am
NateMob wrote:
Now thread the BB.
Brian_Peterson wrote:
Trek has been switching to the T47 BB on some of the new bikes... I didn't look on this one..
NateMob wrote:
Interesting, any inherent advantages to this newer standard over a BSA bb?
It accepts 30mm spindles with good-sized bearings.
3
NateMob
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NateMob 8/17/2021 7:40am
8/17/2021 7:40am
Cool, hard to argue with that.
1
TimBud
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TimBud 8/17/2021 7:53am
8/17/2021 7:53am
Or just improve manufacturing tolerances and bearing issues are significantly reduced.
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