e*thirteen's new Sidekick Hub is here, and and we had the opportunity to spend a day riding it back-to-back with a regular hub to see if its promises of eliminating pedal kickback present significant performance benefits on the trail.
The initial benefits were quite intriguing, with a noticeable uptick in calmness through compressions that kept my bike more settled and composed. There is also minimal drag due to the pawls being disengaged while coasting, which makes for a way higher rolling speed.
I didn't notice a shocking change in feedback through my feet, but it did feel like the shock of compressions was dulled when riding the hub. I still felt the force of impacts, but it wasn't as jarring or disruptive to my bike as a whole.
@TEAMROBOT has a wheelset/Sidekick hub arriving next week to dive headstrong into a long-term review. So stay tuned for more insight into how the hub rides, its durability, pedaling performance, and how it compares to an Ochain.
Full press release with more info HERE
Complete Sidekick product range info HERE
Let us know your thoughts or questions surrounding the Sidekick hub.
Cool option to have besides an ochain. Higher degree band from competitors like Tairin which could be good depending on your bike. That being said Tairin hubs are cheaper and a touch lighter.
so this week i had the chance to put the rear wheel that jason used in the test on my 130mm trail bike (dual 27.5 vitus...basic 4-bar carbon bike). i normally run an onyx out back, so from instant engagement, to 18 degrees of slack. tires were exactly the same, rims both carbon (diff brand), but my normal cassette is 10-50t X vs the gx DH cassette on the test wheel. i weighed the wheels and the weights were within an ounce of each other (e13 hub weight made up for lack of cassette weight, i guess).
i did back-to-back tests and completely agree with the calming nature of the hub on the bike through rough sections. on trails down the street with fake rock gardens full of square edges, i rode in my regular vans shoes that are pretty beat, and my feet have always bounce around. with the sidekick and same shoes, they didn't move on the pedals. on traversy, pedaling sections, it was an adjustment not having engagement i was used to. gearing of the DH cassette was too high to try any technical climbing, but lack of engagement would assumably be problematic there.
i took the trail bike to the lifts with fox shoes and noticed a calmer more composed bike with the sidekick vs onyx on back-to-back runs in the faster, rougher environment, too.
i'm not a musician, but the thought that came to mind was a snare drum vs a bass drum thinking about the vibrations or frequencies or however it'd technically be described. you're still getting beat on, but it's a different intensity or tightness or snappiness.
in the kickback graphics e13 uses, they emphasize a rider's front foot and the crank/pedal going up into the foot. if i lost pedal grip with the onyx, i noticed it in my rear foot, as if the pedal was dropping away more than front foot getting bounced up.
the onyx is still completely rideable, and in a short-travel, trail bike scenario, i don't know if it's worth the the weight penalty or engagement drop, but there is definitely something to be felt, and it was cool to experience.
Chain looks even more composed than o chain. I wonder if it’s the extra 6-9 degrees of “float” or if the overall system.
Would be cool if team robot back to backed an o chain at 12 degrees and the sidekick at 12 degrees and if he can even tell a difference.
O chain set at 4 or 6 degrees plus your onyx may be best of both worlds.
Even after watching that brief "how it works" video five times, I still have no idea how it works. Probably going to need to see it taken apart before I get it.
I'm super excited to test it. My first stop is at Sun Peaks this weekend, trying to keep up with my friends on their DH bikes with my Megatower, AKA perfect test conditions. Sounds like Jason and Spomer both felt the magic in their time on the hub. I'm curious about pedaling feel and engagement, especially because I don't get how it works. Is it a consistent feel and engagement, or variable? Will it feel different in different gear ratios? Don't know.
This product is also ideal for back to back tests, because swapping wheels is dead simple if you've got tires mounted. I'm excited to compare and contrast it with Ochain. The obvious test that no one needs but everyone wants to know is... what if you run them both at the same time? Double the lag, half the feedback? Or is there an absolute maximum amount of float needed, and beyond that it's superfluous. Let's find out.
Super curious about durability. They're making some big claims by saying "best durability on the market," and there seems to be a lot going on in a very small space. I am certifiably horrible to rear hub axles, freehubs, and cassettes, so I'm excited to punish this hub and see how it holds up. I'm glad to see they started with a steel axle, especially because it seems like there's only one point of engagement on the red pusher, which is asking a lot when paired with the torque of a 51 tooth cassette.
We're excited to hear what the Robot overlords think. Back to back testing with wheel swaps is certainly the way to go.
To comment on the single pawl on the pusher and concerns with torque/loading: that pawl never actually carries any drivetrain loads, it only acts to engage the 3 traditional pawls on the freehub, so those are actually the items carrying the drive loads.
Noted!
This is rad... I notice kickback on braking bumps and I've been looking at the Ochain for some time but waiting to get a new bike. This is a good option.
you have to test it with and without an o-chain. you know, for science.
There's pretty obviously no point to running this and an O-chain simultaneously... Two ways to skin the same cat.
Cool tech and a creative solution. I can't help but feel that an O-chain is still easier to add to an existing bike, but if I was already looking for new wheels for a descent focused bike, or perhaps building something frame up, this would be a good solution. It's worth mentioning that O-chain is horrifically overpriced for what it is (I assume because the volume remains very low) so perhaps competition will help drive prices downwards?
Does this provide strictly 18° in its 18° setting, or 18-24 (i.e. 18 + up to 6 from the ratchet depending on where it is when it's pushed into engagement)?
Wondering this myself.
Also, decided to see what all the fuss is about and bought one myself. Will report back once I get some time on it!
I think because of the two pawl system it’s always the same. The first pawl engages immediately and then that starts the engagement of the three larger ones based on your float selection. Seems pretty rad. If it works like it says on the tin, this is a much cleaner system then an ochain as that system can have a ton of slop in it if. Too bad I don’t need a new rear hub.
Also, shoulda done a few chainless laps at the end of the day!
What is mini-HG? Let’s say that that I want super boost hub with 12 speed cassette. Is that possible?
I'd be far more interested in hooking up telemetry & heat sensors to the shock. Do runs on a DH trail to see what kind of heat is generated in the body of the shock & a graphing of compression spikes between the DT & E13.
"Feel" at the feet can be a neat thing, but if there are gains in the performance/less stress to the shock and a smoother compresssion curve, might mean you're even looking at gains in traction, maybe even having to change your damper settings.
Worth mentioning, unless something has changed, telemetry isn't some plug and play thing that anyone can setup and use. Itd take Vital (or even Robot) the better part of a few days to even set this up and understand it, let alone get something useful out of it. There is a lot of room for thinking you are seeing one thing but actually seeing another in this realm.
I'd argue a far easier way to know if its working is just to do back to back runs. Three runs pinned without it. Three runs pinned with it. Even alternate to try and control for fatigue.
Any have a look at the williams racing center hub?
"Change gears whenever you want? Help isolate suspension forces from your pedals? Adaptable to almost any direct mount crankset? Instant engagement, silent and near zero rolling resistance? Sounds great, hey?"
It's just a crank freewheel. Not much new there.
i still love how their hub solution is a zip tie. but $1200 for a front freewheel (even with a sprag clutch) is absolutely absurd.
1200 Australian but still..yeah.
But wouldn't you love to see the data set & associated graphs just to try to spot the variation?
In a word, no. I don't want to play data scientist and try and figure out what is signal and what is noise.
I agree. I would like to see a review of the williams racing center hub.
My impression is I want it.
yes, the engagement degrees listed on the pusher include the degrees the pusher travels to activate the pawls + the degrees the pawls travel to engage the ratchet ring.
So it is 6 to 12degrees ,9 to 15degrees or 12 to 18degrees then and it has a constant minimum 'deadspace' of 6 degrees.
I think the lower value in the range is the guaranteed slack in each setting. so you'd have 6/9/12 degrees of slack before the pusher engages the pawls, then 0-6 degrees of normal hub slack.
Testing the CentreHub and comparing it to OChain, Sidekick, no chain, STFU guides, and a combination of everything at once sounds very interesting/entertaining.
for the graph-hungry, this is in the ethirteen PR linked in the original post of this thread. there is other data stuffs in the article too (but it's e13's data, not someone else's)
Yeah.....maths not mathing good.
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