The Bikeconomics (Mega)Thread

DubC
Posts
173
Joined
10/26/2011
Location
USA
1 day ago
boozed wrote:

What you get when you allow an industry to "self-regulate"

The Financial Services Sector is the most regulated, taxed, and subsidized industry in the American economy, and this holds true for most modern countries. All banks...

The Financial Services Sector is the most regulated, taxed, and subsidized industry in the American economy, and this holds true for most modern countries. All banks are subject to interest rates set by the Fed, the government owned and run Central Bank. There are tens of thousands of pages of regulations for banks in the Federal Register. 

With the exception of the covid, every major financial crisis in the US economy in the past 50 years has been directly caused by the Financial Services Sector. They spend oodles of $$ "lobbying" (AKA buying govt policy), to minimize govt oversight. Not foolin us today, Diddy. 

15
1
1 day ago

Regulated with enforcement for the little players, not the big ones.


Almost sounds like the system it regulates, right?

5
14 hours ago
DubC wrote:
With the exception of the covid, every major financial crisis in the US economy in the past 50 years has been directly caused by the Financial...

With the exception of the covid, every major financial crisis in the US economy in the past 50 years has been directly caused by the Financial Services Sector. They spend oodles of $$ "lobbying" (AKA buying govt policy), to minimize govt oversight. Not foolin us today, Diddy. 

You are correct. The Financial Servies Sector, the part of our economy the MOST managed, the MOST run, the MOST controlled by the Federal Government consistently has the worst performance for Americans. If blood letting the patient doesn't work, taking even more blood isn't going to solve the issue. 

Behind every single bank in the US is the FED, a government run central bank. It sets policy and dictates interest rates. This is the system that is failing. It regulates all the banks that you can interact with. If this regulation is failing, how will more regulation help?

12
14 hours ago
mickey wrote:
Yes, but it is neither taxed nor regulated nearly enough.  You sound like Lance Armstrong … “I’m the most tested athlete of all time”…  The financialization...

Yes, but it is neither taxed nor regulated nearly enough.  

You sound like Lance Armstrong … “I’m the most tested athlete of all time”…  The financialization of the global economy is very clearly a rigged game, and the players in the game are barely, barely, barely accountable in this country.

 

I dont want to hijack this entire convo, so I'll just say one more thing and then hold my peace. 

Its not that the regulations are ineffective or weak. Its not that somehow, if we had 90,000 pages in the Federal Register instead of 76,000 suddently greed would be solved. Its that the regulations are written to benefit a select few at the expense of all of us. Regulatory Capture is a real, observable thing. Never in the history of anything has regulations from a centralized authority had the original, intended outcome in the long run. If the industry has the most of something and performs the worst, maybe thats a clue. Maybe gasoline doesn't put out fires. Maybe Federal Regulations around banking is for the bankers benefit, not yours. Maybe the same government that caused the 2008 crash and then bailed out the banks (but not you) isn't fit to manage something as complex as a modern financial system in a large, complex economy?

Seriously, this is hard to wrap my head around. Two possibilities: 1. The Regulators, who have been given more power than any regulators in the history of the country utterly failed, or 2. They succeeded, its just that they had their own interests in mind, not yours. Either way, you want to give them MORE power?

3
4
AndehM
Posts
879
Joined
5/7/2018
Location
El Granada, CA, USA
Fantasy
13 hours ago

Getting back on topic of bikeconomics... I know a guy who went to school with someone high up at one of the well known but smaller bike brands.  (Sorry if I'm being vague but I don't want to get him in trouble.)  I asked whether they were planning on refreshing their enduro bike (not capital E enduro) in 2027 as it's a few years old, has some dated geo, and is no longer listed under their current bikes.  The answer was no, and not sure when if ever that would happen since enduro is dead.  Kind of wild to hear that directly from a brand, rather than just gloom and doom forum posts.  And it makes me sad because for as much as I like riding my ebike for after work laps, I love doing bigger rides on my enduro bike on the weekend.

5
12 hours ago Edited Date/Time 12 hours ago
AndehM wrote:
Getting back on topic of bikeconomics... I know a guy who went to school with someone high up at one of the well known but smaller...

Getting back on topic of bikeconomics... I know a guy who went to school with someone high up at one of the well known but smaller bike brands.  (Sorry if I'm being vague but I don't want to get him in trouble.)  I asked whether they were planning on refreshing their enduro bike (not capital E enduro) in 2027 as it's a few years old, has some dated geo, and is no longer listed under their current bikes.  The answer was no, and not sure when if ever that would happen since enduro is dead.  Kind of wild to hear that directly from a brand, rather than just gloom and doom forum posts.  And it makes me sad because for as much as I like riding my ebike for after work laps, I love doing bigger rides on my enduro bike on the weekend.

Salsa? They still have the Cassidy listed but just sell it as a frameset at a steep discount. Since you're out of California I'm trying to think of North American smaller brands that previously sold enduro bikes but no longer do. Canyon is pretty big and European but no longer has a non electric Strive. That would check out too, because it seems like the NA mechanical enduro market is doing better than in the EU.

1
Curly
Posts
12
Joined
1/19/2022
Location
PNW, OR, USA
12 hours ago

Hearing some rumblings. Cdale Closing up the Connecticut office and moving it all to europe... lots of people being let go.

9
One Ghost
Posts
168
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
Tacoma, WA, USA
12 hours ago
Curly wrote:

Hearing some rumblings. Cdale Closing up the Connecticut office and moving it all to europe... lots of people being let go.

Came here to drop this as well. 😳😢

IMG 8255IMG 8254 1
9
Primoz
Posts
4757
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
12 hours ago

Isn't the general rumour consensus that Cannondale is being shut down completely?

7
1
11 hours ago

I wonder if we're going to see a Santa Cruz with a "Righty" 32" fork next year and they'll claim that its resemblance to a recently shut down PON brand is purely coincidence. I have it on good authority that the Horst link Tallboy and Vala were intended to be the new GT Sensor and E bike and they just updated certain design language to make them look a bit more "Santa Cruz". I know a former GT employee and he told me that at least one, probably more of the engineers moved directly over to SC to support those product designs and releases. 

9
Zuestman
Posts
200
Joined
10/27/2014
Location
Seattle, WA, USA
11 hours ago
Primoz wrote:

Isn't the general rumour consensus that Cannondale is being shut down completely?

always rumblings... only people who really know won't say at this point.  But been thought to have issues for a while. This may be the last ditch effort to keep the brand... or it may go the way of GT. 

1
pinkrobe
Posts
274
Joined
5/16/2015
Location
Revelstoke, BC, CA
11 hours ago

New bike park coming to Nakiska:

People [myself included] have been pushing for lift-accessed riding at Nakiska for 30 years, and it's finally happening. Nakiska is 45 minutes west of Calgary [pop. ~1.6M]. Looking at this through a business lens, Nakiska is owned/operated by Resorts of the Canadian Rockies [RCR], a private corp with billionaire Murray Edwards as a major investor. RCR also owns MSA, Kicking Horse and Ski Fernie. RCR has a long history of being extremely cost-conscious [read: cheapskates}, so it will be interesting to see what they do with the new bike park, especially over the long term.

8
10 hours ago

Official word from Cannondale:

-----------------------------------------

Cannondale today announced plans to strengthen its North American operations and retailer support. The changes include a new home for its North American activities on the West Coast and offering its retailers easier access to other Pon.Bike brands, including Santa Cruz and Cervélo, through a single point of contact.

Over the next six months, Cannondale will adopt a new sales model in North America, with outside sales representatives covering multiple Pon.Bike brands. This builds on two years of closer commercial collaboration between the brands to offer retailers greater choice. For retailers carrying more than one brand, this means a single point of contact and simpler ordering and support services. The aim is to make it easier for retailers to work with Cannondale and access more of the Pon.Bike portfolio. Each brand will retain its own identity, models and relationship with riders.

As part of this next step, Cannondale is creating a new home for its North American business on the West Coast, a region known for its cycling culture. A dedicated commercial, retailer and rider support team will be based there, providing Cannondale expertise and services to retailers and riders across North America.

Alongside these changes, Cannondale is bringing its global teams closer together. Woudenberg (the Netherlands), currently Cannondale’s European headquarters, will become its global headquarters. R&D and Engineering functions, long based in Freiburg (Germany), will continue to engineer and develop the best bikes building on Cannondale expertise already there.

As part of this transition, operations at the Wilton (Connecticut, USA) office will wind down by mid-2027. For more than five decades, Connecticut has been instrumental in shaping Cannondale into one of cycling’s most influential brands. Cannondale is deeply grateful to the team members whose passion, creativity, and commitment built this incredible foundation. The innovative spirit they fostered remains a core part of Cannondale’s DNA as the brand proudly carries its legacy into this next chapter of growth and rider-focused innovation.

2
10 hours ago

Consolidation of 3 brand under a single roof.. Definitely a cost savings measure. 

2
10 hours ago
DubC wrote:
With the exception of the covid, every major financial crisis in the US economy in the past 50 years has been directly caused by the Financial...

With the exception of the covid, every major financial crisis in the US economy in the past 50 years has been directly caused by the Financial Services Sector. They spend oodles of $$ "lobbying" (AKA buying govt policy), to minimize govt oversight. Not foolin us today, Diddy. 

You are correct. The Financial Servies Sector, the part of our economy the MOST managed, the MOST run, the MOST controlled by the Federal Government consistently...

You are correct. The Financial Servies Sector, the part of our economy the MOST managed, the MOST run, the MOST controlled by the Federal Government consistently has the worst performance for Americans. If blood letting the patient doesn't work, taking even more blood isn't going to solve the issue. 

Behind every single bank in the US is the FED, a government run central bank. It sets policy and dictates interest rates. This is the system that is failing. It regulates all the banks that you can interact with. If this regulation is failing, how will more regulation help?

Conservatism: "Government doesn't work and we'll prove it by the way we run the government."

12
1
TEAMROBOT
Posts
1685
Joined
9/2/2009
Location
Los Angeles, CA, USA
Fantasy
9 hours ago Edited Date/Time 9 hours ago
iceman2058 wrote:
Official word from Cannondale:-----------------------------------------Cannondale today announced plans to strengthen its North American operations and retailer support. The changes include a new home for its North American...

Official word from Cannondale:

-----------------------------------------

Cannondale today announced plans to strengthen its North American operations and retailer support. The changes include a new home for its North American activities on the West Coast and offering its retailers easier access to other Pon.Bike brands, including Santa Cruz and Cervélo, through a single point of contact.

Over the next six months, Cannondale will adopt a new sales model in North America, with outside sales representatives covering multiple Pon.Bike brands. This builds on two years of closer commercial collaboration between the brands to offer retailers greater choice. For retailers carrying more than one brand, this means a single point of contact and simpler ordering and support services. The aim is to make it easier for retailers to work with Cannondale and access more of the Pon.Bike portfolio. Each brand will retain its own identity, models and relationship with riders.

As part of this next step, Cannondale is creating a new home for its North American business on the West Coast, a region known for its cycling culture. A dedicated commercial, retailer and rider support team will be based there, providing Cannondale expertise and services to retailers and riders across North America.

Alongside these changes, Cannondale is bringing its global teams closer together. Woudenberg (the Netherlands), currently Cannondale’s European headquarters, will become its global headquarters. R&D and Engineering functions, long based in Freiburg (Germany), will continue to engineer and develop the best bikes building on Cannondale expertise already there.

As part of this transition, operations at the Wilton (Connecticut, USA) office will wind down by mid-2027. For more than five decades, Connecticut has been instrumental in shaping Cannondale into one of cycling’s most influential brands. Cannondale is deeply grateful to the team members whose passion, creativity, and commitment built this incredible foundation. The innovative spirit they fostered remains a core part of Cannondale’s DNA as the brand proudly carries its legacy into this next chapter of growth and rider-focused innovation.

"Cannondale today announced plans to strengthen its North American operations and retailer support."

Good to hear! For a second there I was worried this might be bad news.

5
9 hours ago
iceman2058 wrote:
Official word from Cannondale:-----------------------------------------Cannondale today announced plans to strengthen its North American operations and retailer support. The changes include a new home for its North American...

Official word from Cannondale:

-----------------------------------------

Cannondale today announced plans to strengthen its North American operations and retailer support. The changes include a new home for its North American activities on the West Coast and offering its retailers easier access to other Pon.Bike brands, including Santa Cruz and Cervélo, through a single point of contact.

Over the next six months, Cannondale will adopt a new sales model in North America, with outside sales representatives covering multiple Pon.Bike brands. This builds on two years of closer commercial collaboration between the brands to offer retailers greater choice. For retailers carrying more than one brand, this means a single point of contact and simpler ordering and support services. The aim is to make it easier for retailers to work with Cannondale and access more of the Pon.Bike portfolio. Each brand will retain its own identity, models and relationship with riders.

As part of this next step, Cannondale is creating a new home for its North American business on the West Coast, a region known for its cycling culture. A dedicated commercial, retailer and rider support team will be based there, providing Cannondale expertise and services to retailers and riders across North America.

Alongside these changes, Cannondale is bringing its global teams closer together. Woudenberg (the Netherlands), currently Cannondale’s European headquarters, will become its global headquarters. R&D and Engineering functions, long based in Freiburg (Germany), will continue to engineer and develop the best bikes building on Cannondale expertise already there.

As part of this transition, operations at the Wilton (Connecticut, USA) office will wind down by mid-2027. For more than five decades, Connecticut has been instrumental in shaping Cannondale into one of cycling’s most influential brands. Cannondale is deeply grateful to the team members whose passion, creativity, and commitment built this incredible foundation. The innovative spirit they fostered remains a core part of Cannondale’s DNA as the brand proudly carries its legacy into this next chapter of growth and rider-focused innovation.

TEAMROBOT wrote:
"Cannondale today announced plans to strengthen its North American operations and retailer support."Good to hear! For a second there I was worried this might be...

"Cannondale today announced plans to strengthen its North American operations and retailer support."

Good to hear! For a second there I was worried this might be bad news.

Not so good if you're one of the newly unemployed..

1
1
TEAMROBOT
Posts
1685
Joined
9/2/2009
Location
Los Angeles, CA, USA
Fantasy
9 hours ago Edited Date/Time 9 hours ago
iceman2058 wrote:
Official word from Cannondale:-----------------------------------------Cannondale today announced plans to strengthen its North American operations and retailer support. The changes include a new home for its North American...

Official word from Cannondale:

-----------------------------------------

Cannondale today announced plans to strengthen its North American operations and retailer support. The changes include a new home for its North American activities on the West Coast and offering its retailers easier access to other Pon.Bike brands, including Santa Cruz and Cervélo, through a single point of contact.

Over the next six months, Cannondale will adopt a new sales model in North America, with outside sales representatives covering multiple Pon.Bike brands. This builds on two years of closer commercial collaboration between the brands to offer retailers greater choice. For retailers carrying more than one brand, this means a single point of contact and simpler ordering and support services. The aim is to make it easier for retailers to work with Cannondale and access more of the Pon.Bike portfolio. Each brand will retain its own identity, models and relationship with riders.

As part of this next step, Cannondale is creating a new home for its North American business on the West Coast, a region known for its cycling culture. A dedicated commercial, retailer and rider support team will be based there, providing Cannondale expertise and services to retailers and riders across North America.

Alongside these changes, Cannondale is bringing its global teams closer together. Woudenberg (the Netherlands), currently Cannondale’s European headquarters, will become its global headquarters. R&D and Engineering functions, long based in Freiburg (Germany), will continue to engineer and develop the best bikes building on Cannondale expertise already there.

As part of this transition, operations at the Wilton (Connecticut, USA) office will wind down by mid-2027. For more than five decades, Connecticut has been instrumental in shaping Cannondale into one of cycling’s most influential brands. Cannondale is deeply grateful to the team members whose passion, creativity, and commitment built this incredible foundation. The innovative spirit they fostered remains a core part of Cannondale’s DNA as the brand proudly carries its legacy into this next chapter of growth and rider-focused innovation.

TEAMROBOT wrote:
"Cannondale today announced plans to strengthen its North American operations and retailer support."Good to hear! For a second there I was worried this might be...

"Cannondale today announced plans to strengthen its North American operations and retailer support."

Good to hear! For a second there I was worried this might be bad news.

Not so good if you're one of the newly unemployed..

Yes, I'm sorry if I was unclear. That was sarcasm, and everything about this news report is the worst. I was being sarcastic and grumpy about the apparent PR desire to frame this terrible news as a win for customers, sort of like "Man receiving double amputation finally sheds the freshman 15 and then some."

16
8 hours ago
TEAMROBOT wrote:
"Cannondale today announced plans to strengthen its North American operations and retailer support."Good to hear! For a second there I was worried this might be...

"Cannondale today announced plans to strengthen its North American operations and retailer support."

Good to hear! For a second there I was worried this might be bad news.

Not so good if you're one of the newly unemployed..

TEAMROBOT wrote:
Yes, I'm sorry if I was unclear. That was sarcasm, and everything about this news report is the worst. I was being sarcastic and grumpy about...

Yes, I'm sorry if I was unclear. That was sarcasm, and everything about this news report is the worst. I was being sarcastic and grumpy about the apparent PR desire to frame this terrible news as a win for customers, sort of like "Man receiving double amputation finally sheds the freshman 15 and then some."

Luckily, I understand the Robot sarcasm... and appreciate it... Please, don't stop on my account..

3
Sherbet
Posts
55
Joined
11/5/2014
Location
CA
8 hours ago

The negative is obvious and terrible, 150 people losing their jobs and a local venue losing industry and community. My heart goes out to anyone affected by the layoffs, and I genuinely am pulling for Cannondale to work with out.

That said, it feels like they're trying to conglomerate the brands under one roof, they've slowly been doing this in the background with some of the B2B systems, and as a shop guy, I can't say the idea of having one rep for multiple brands bothers me at all. One stop shop kind of thing in many respects. We're not a Cannondale dealer, but we do work with PON, and it'd be interesting to see if they end up offering all their collected brands to any shop with an account. 

Also said on the other site; there's no way around it, and while it may not justify the current case, there's way too many brands in cycling right now. Most are competing without any real impactful differences between them. The industry really does need to slim down on how many "main" brands we have. We have about 14 "major" brands we deal with in the shop, and I doubt the average person could name that many car companies off the top of their head. Most compete in the same spaces, and there's a lot of overlap. A large amount of our customers both cannot tell the differences, nor do they care. They want a good experience (more important than performance) with their bike and their shop, and almost everything outside of that is keeping up with the Jones or putting some perceived bling onto their bike. We don't sell Hope brakes because of how damn good they are, we sell them because customers think they look awesome.

PON has to justify having multiple brands selling in the same space to the same customer. To the average dude, is the Cannondale that much better than the Cervelo at the pricepoint, or will they lean towards the Cervelo due to the name association with quality. In my experience, they normally go for the latte unless the pricepoint is a blowout difference. They see Cervelo as a brand that will give them a good experience, as that's 110% what their brand image is aimed towards. 

That Enduro.DE survey over the last winter indicating that most customers are moving up in price bracket for a good shop experience rather than for a performance benefit really opened my eyes to how 95% of our shoppers operate, and it really has made a lot of stuff make sense.

7
8 hours ago
Sorry to be off topic,  Yeah where I live they have.  I know plenty of restaurants that went from starting cooks 12-17 to starting people 17-21...

Sorry to be off topic,  


Yeah where I live they have.  I know plenty of restaurants that went from starting cooks 12-17 to starting people 17-21 for a line cook.  I know plenty of 17 year olds getting paid 15 an hr and getting tip outs.  I also know plenty of established line cooks who make 25+ an hr and get regular overtime.  Because if an owner can charge you 65 dollars for a 20 dollar plate or 20 dollars for a 4 dollar one it doesn’t take a whole lot of business to pay the kitchen if you can keep your crew small.  Especially considering kitchen management wages have not risen at remotely the same rate.

even Walmart was offering 19-20 an hr for a while.  I think they are down to 17-18 but that’s a lot higher than the 12 they offered not long ago.


Ditto for almost every supermarket.  And if they aren’t paying more it’s cause they have more staff and more benefits and that’s what their workers got instead during Covid negotiations.


Combine that with many adding a large amount of delivery sales and many restaurants have not been struggling to find revenue post COVID for food sales.  However finding people to cook the food is strangely harder than ever.

So while my bank account is very happy with the current situation.  I do also kind of miss the days when I was first starting out of working with a bunch of undocumented guys and gals even if I don’t miss the exploitation.  The work itself is less fun with Americans.  

Meanwhile wholesale food prices largely have returned to pre Covid prices barring the occasional shortage and regular amount of inflation.  Beef being one main exception (though again retail is inflated beyond wholesale) and a current rise due to gas prices.  

So in my lifetime you have paid more because owners could no longer easily exploit undocumented immigrants and then because Covid and and a lack of Americans who want to be a serious professional cook.  And since the customers keep showing up and paying higher and higher prices or paying even more for someone to pick it up and bring it to them owners are plenty happy to pay me and others more.

TLDR

Yeah entry level level and professional level in food service are paid way more.  As long as you are producing the product.  Management has not seen the same increase in wages.  Though they have more benefits and slightly less time commitment in general.  I’ve been in the food industry for my primary work for 20 years.

You do realize restaurants run single digit margins. Like low single digit. 

2
8 hours ago
pinkrobe wrote:
New bike park coming to Nakiska:People [myself included] have been pushing for lift-accessed riding at Nakiska for 30 years, and it's finally happening. Nakiska is 45...

New bike park coming to Nakiska:

People [myself included] have been pushing for lift-accessed riding at Nakiska for 30 years, and it's finally happening. Nakiska is 45 minutes west of Calgary [pop. ~1.6M]. Looking at this through a business lens, Nakiska is owned/operated by Resorts of the Canadian Rockies [RCR], a private corp with billionaire Murray Edwards as a major investor. RCR also owns MSA, Kicking Horse and Ski Fernie. RCR has a long history of being extremely cost-conscious [read: cheapskates}, so it will be interesting to see what they do with the new bike park, especially over the long term.

No real features or gap jumps if it’s anything like KH

2
owl-x
Posts
1076
Joined
3/23/2016
Location
Shell Beach, CA, USA
8 hours ago

Luckily, I understand the Robot sarcasm... and appreciate it... Please, don't stop on my account..

I’m still figuring it out but this would explain his Billy Joel comment

 

1
7 hours ago
iceman2058 wrote:
Official word from Cannondale:-----------------------------------------Cannondale today announced plans to strengthen its North American operations and retailer support. The changes include a new home for its North American...

Official word from Cannondale:

-----------------------------------------

Cannondale today announced plans to strengthen its North American operations and retailer support. The changes include a new home for its North American activities on the West Coast and offering its retailers easier access to other Pon.Bike brands, including Santa Cruz and Cervélo, through a single point of contact.

Over the next six months, Cannondale will adopt a new sales model in North America, with outside sales representatives covering multiple Pon.Bike brands. This builds on two years of closer commercial collaboration between the brands to offer retailers greater choice. For retailers carrying more than one brand, this means a single point of contact and simpler ordering and support services. The aim is to make it easier for retailers to work with Cannondale and access more of the Pon.Bike portfolio. Each brand will retain its own identity, models and relationship with riders.

As part of this next step, Cannondale is creating a new home for its North American business on the West Coast, a region known for its cycling culture. A dedicated commercial, retailer and rider support team will be based there, providing Cannondale expertise and services to retailers and riders across North America.

Alongside these changes, Cannondale is bringing its global teams closer together. Woudenberg (the Netherlands), currently Cannondale’s European headquarters, will become its global headquarters. R&D and Engineering functions, long based in Freiburg (Germany), will continue to engineer and develop the best bikes building on Cannondale expertise already there.

As part of this transition, operations at the Wilton (Connecticut, USA) office will wind down by mid-2027. For more than five decades, Connecticut has been instrumental in shaping Cannondale into one of cycling’s most influential brands. Cannondale is deeply grateful to the team members whose passion, creativity, and commitment built this incredible foundation. The innovative spirit they fostered remains a core part of Cannondale’s DNA as the brand proudly carries its legacy into this next chapter of growth and rider-focused innovation.

Pon
5
Ryan Burney
Posts
90
Joined
10/20/2024
Location
Richmond, VT, USA
7 hours ago

It was a pleasure to work there a few years back. Good people. Sad to see 😥

3
Blake_Motley
Posts
291
Joined
11/14/2013
Location
Chula Vista, CA, USA
6 hours ago
Curly wrote:

Hearing some rumblings. Cdale Closing up the Connecticut office and moving it all to europe... lots of people being let go.

 what about the shareholders?

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