Good argument, and just providing a counterpoint from only one specific part of the world: I am constantly looking at the bikes I see around Laguna...
Good argument, and just providing a counterpoint from only one specific part of the world: I am constantly looking at the bikes I see around Laguna and Aliso, and unless Specialized somehow makes the new Enduro not a pain to climb then otherwise I don’t see why hardcore riders with money would purchase the Enduro over a similar priced Turbo Levo or other eMTB. Also despite how good Specialized’s marketing is perceived to be, it cannot make up for product shortcomings even in the market areas that are growing (eMTBs: see massive Turbo Levo price cuts). It’s truly an uphill battle (pun partially intended) to convince people to spend $$$ on an Enduro when more riders of varying fitness levels and technical riding capabilities would be able to ride the same trails more times for roughly the same cost with an enduro-class eMTB.
It feels like Specialized sat on the Enduro for too many years while the average customer shifted their interest from MTB to eMTB. We will see though, and I hope I’m wrong and wish Specialized success 🙏🏽
I have no idea what are you talking about?
I don't see any "hardcore" riders getting on e-bikes around this part of the world. I do see many e-bikes, but most of them are sticking to blue trails and generally ridden by people I wouldn't have seen on trails before. The "hardcore" riders still ride mountain bikes just like before around here, with a few exceptions obviously.
There's definitely no shortage of a market for long travel enduro bikes. There's also a plenty of reasons not to get a Turbo Levo or any other eMTB over an actual MTB.
Statement from Atherton Bikes regarding the fire at their HQ:
Statement from Atherton Bikes | 11 October 2026
We are devastated to confirm that there has been a fire at Atherton Bikes HQ and factory in Machynlleth.
Mid and West Wales Fire and Rescue Service have been incredible in their response and have brought the situation under control.
Most importantly, we can confirm that nobody was injured and everyone is safe.
We are still working to understand the full extent of the damage. We recognise that this news will be particularly concerning for customers with bikes on order.
We anticipate disruption to production and deliveries, but at this stage it's too early to understand the full impact.
As soon as we have more information, we will update affected customers directly and share further details with the wider community.
Please keep our staff and the wider Atherton Bikes team, who call this place home, in your thoughts.
Thank you to everyone who has reached out with messages of support. It means a great deal to us all.
Wow. Have been kind of in-awe of how the Athertons evolved from top-level WC Elites to bike park / bike company owners, the whole unique development / production of their bikes, etc. Such a shame to see this news for them and their company. I was just watching a Rach interview recently, how she was talking about how the bike company had managed to bring so many people to their hub. This has got to be devastating for them all.
Rather than being aero (there’s a fat knobby tire after all), I though that was a fashion call back to when cyclocross bikes used deep wheels...
Rather than being aero (there’s a fat knobby tire after all), I though that was a fashion call back to when cyclocross bikes used deep wheels to prevent mud from building up on top of the rim, interfering with rim brakes.
A lot of companies are pushing aero on the more race oriented gravel bikes now...
It's funny how much MTB tech is showing up in that world right now..
I mean we have discussed this before, early days XC/marathon was mostly dirt/gravel roads and some singletracks, they both became more technical and gravel bikes filled the fire road/light singletrack gap and they are now leaning more and more towards the mtb, while keeping their niche... Aero there also makes a lot of sense as its still more endurance type of cycling.
But the aero is not to be undestimated in MTB as well, we all remember when UCI banned lycra in dh racing but pretty much every professional dh racer now wears tailor made super tight kits. The thing with aero rims on DH/enduro bike is that with them being tall they are also super stiff and would probably make the ride really uncomfortable.
Kaiden Ingersol's Rampage run: at the start he does 4 awkward ratcheting half cranks to get up to speed rather than a full pedal rotation.Weird rider...
Kaiden Ingersol's Rampage run: at the start he does 4 awkward ratcheting half cranks to get up to speed rather than a full pedal rotation.
Weird rider quirk or has he got something limiting his crank rotation to keep them in place for no foot tricks?
Looks like a quirk developed from running a crank stopper, plus keeping his feet and pedals in the sweet spot. I dusted off a Hope Pro 4 hub for my flatbar roadie that does the same thing every time I'm coasting and hit a bump, crack, or paver. Reminds me of life before high-engagement ratchet hubs, while punishing me for riding skinny tires on purpose.
Rather than being aero (there’s a fat knobby tire after all), I though that was a fashion call back to when cyclocross bikes used deep wheels...
Rather than being aero (there’s a fat knobby tire after all), I though that was a fashion call back to when cyclocross bikes used deep wheels to prevent mud from building up on top of the rim, interfering with rim brakes.
A lot of companies are pushing aero on the more race oriented gravel bikes now...
Man, that Van Rysel is a bit of a harbinger of the future of XC. Was it one or two races where Cannondale was experimenting with deep-section wheels and the field was running near semi-slicks for the short-track races. 32's and deep-profile wheels could mean courses with few to no tight, twisty tech sections or sudden transitions. More long, sweeping turns, XC motorways, and straight-line tech sections.
That being said, Nove Mesto XCO will look wild with 32's on some of those existing sections, and MSA's XC tech sections will also be wicked to see.
Kaiden Ingersol's Rampage run: at the start he does 4 awkward ratcheting half cranks to get up to speed rather than a full pedal rotation.Weird rider...
Kaiden Ingersol's Rampage run: at the start he does 4 awkward ratcheting half cranks to get up to speed rather than a full pedal rotation.
Weird rider quirk or has he got something limiting his crank rotation to keep them in place for no foot tricks?
Looks like a quirk developed from running a crank stopper, plus keeping his feet and pedals in the sweet spot. I dusted off a Hope Pro...
Looks like a quirk developed from running a crank stopper, plus keeping his feet and pedals in the sweet spot. I dusted off a Hope Pro 4 hub for my flatbar roadie that does the same thing every time I'm coasting and hit a bump, crack, or paver. Reminds me of life before high-engagement ratchet hubs, while punishing me for riding skinny tires on purpose.
I’m confused that you both are confused about this. The “bitch crank”, as I used to see it referred to on Bmx forums as a teenager, is very normal. If you don’t think you have quite enough speed, then you just do a couple ratchets before you get to the object you’re hitting. It’s kind of a fidgety quirky move as you both said, but very normal for someone to do as they mentally prepare for something. I see people do it all the time in mountain biking as well, as they approach an obstacle and try to make sense of speed for it.
Kaiden Ingersol's Rampage run: at the start he does 4 awkward ratcheting half cranks to get up to speed rather than a full pedal rotation.Weird rider...
Kaiden Ingersol's Rampage run: at the start he does 4 awkward ratcheting half cranks to get up to speed rather than a full pedal rotation.
Weird rider quirk or has he got something limiting his crank rotation to keep them in place for no foot tricks?
I’m confused that you both are confused about this. The “bitch crank”, as I used to see it referred to on Bmx forums as a teenager...
I’m confused that you both are confused about this. The “bitch crank”, as I used to see it referred to on Bmx forums as a teenager, is very normal. If you don’t think you have quite enough speed, then you just do a couple ratchets before you get to the object you’re hitting. It’s kind of a fidgety quirky move as you both said, but very normal for someone to do as they mentally prepare for something. I see people do it all the time in mountain biking as well, as they approach an obstacle and try to make sense of speed for it.
I've always thought that a bitch crank was (full) pedalstrokes inbetween jumps because you messed up the previous landing/trying to solve the next jump with speed rather than technique.
There's one local flow line that I have yet to complete without such a crank.
I’m confused that you both are confused about this. The “bitch crank”, as I used to see it referred to on Bmx forums as a teenager...
I’m confused that you both are confused about this. The “bitch crank”, as I used to see it referred to on Bmx forums as a teenager, is very normal. If you don’t think you have quite enough speed, then you just do a couple ratchets before you get to the object you’re hitting. It’s kind of a fidgety quirky move as you both said, but very normal for someone to do as they mentally prepare for something. I see people do it all the time in mountain biking as well, as they approach an obstacle and try to make sense of speed for it.
I've always thought that a bitch crank was (full) pedalstrokes inbetween jumps because you messed up the previous landing/trying to solve the next jump with speed...
I've always thought that a bitch crank was (full) pedalstrokes inbetween jumps because you messed up the previous landing/trying to solve the next jump with speed rather than technique.
There's one local flow line that I have yet to complete without such a crank.
I think you’re right; that can also be a bitch crank. I’m not sure which if either is more correct usage really or if they both work. Regardless I guess, doing little ratchets is very normal.
The guy in question probably was running a crank stopper of some sort, given his riding style, but I would fully chalk the ratchet up to jitters and gaging speed.
Considering he could turn the cranks more or less normally to high five or something off screen before the run it doesn't look like he had crank stoppers...
Rather than being aero (there’s a fat knobby tire after all), I though that was a fashion call back to when cyclocross bikes used deep wheels...
Rather than being aero (there’s a fat knobby tire after all), I though that was a fashion call back to when cyclocross bikes used deep wheels to prevent mud from building up on top of the rim, interfering with rim brakes.
Man, that Van Rysel is a bit of a harbinger of the future of XC. Was it one or two races where Cannondale was experimenting with...
Man, that Van Rysel is a bit of a harbinger of the future of XC. Was it one or two races where Cannondale was experimenting with deep-section wheels and the field was running near semi-slicks for the short-track races. 32's and deep-profile wheels could mean courses with few to no tight, twisty tech sections or sudden transitions. More long, sweeping turns, XC motorways, and straight-line tech sections.
That being said, Nove Mesto XCO will look wild with 32's on some of those existing sections, and MSA's XC tech sections will also be wicked to see.
It's kind of surprising that these brands haven't been pursing aero on xc bikes. Considering the current state of things, there really looks to be a bunch of low hanging fruit that should have minimal downsides. Stuff like aero tweaking the frame, bars, wheels, tires, etc. The new WTB tires look really interesting, really surprising that Conti hasn't done something like that with the dubnital. Especially when you consider how much chat there was about how surprisingly aero the race king was and how much crossover those tires get in gravel racing too.
Apparently Stromm who worked with WTB on those new tires is developing a new gravel frame and wheelset which I would imagine would have some influence on XC too. Would seem like the perfect thing for a company like Enve to do with their upcoming xc bike. They already do a lot of aero R&D, have a good story to tell there, and can use it as a USP as to why you'd buy their bike instead of just another epic. Aero tweaked frame, bars, wheels, etc. seems 100% in their wheelhouse.
It's kind of surprising that these brands haven't been pursing aero on xc bikes. Considering the current state of things, there really looks to be a...
It's kind of surprising that these brands haven't been pursing aero on xc bikes. Considering the current state of things, there really looks to be a bunch of low hanging fruit that should have minimal downsides. Stuff like aero tweaking the frame, bars, wheels, tires, etc. The new WTB tires look really interesting, really surprising that Conti hasn't done something like that with the dubnital. Especially when you consider how much chat there was about how surprisingly aero the race king was and how much crossover those tires get in gravel racing too.
Apparently Stromm who worked with WTB on those new tires is developing a new gravel frame and wheelset which I would imagine would have some influence on XC too. Would seem like the perfect thing for a company like Enve to do with their upcoming xc bike. They already do a lot of aero R&D, have a good story to tell there, and can use it as a USP as to why you'd buy their bike instead of just another epic. Aero tweaked frame, bars, wheels, etc. seems 100% in their wheelhouse.
Maybe because even on the road it has minimal effect?
Aero drag is 80-85% the rider, which can be optimized by the position and clothing/helmets. The bike optimization is marginal gains. After the weight weenie period, the industry needed the next thing, which was aero. Reason is that, in contrast to mountain bikes, the UCI would not allow the introduction of another wheelsize. 😉
It's kind of surprising that these brands haven't been pursing aero on xc bikes. Considering the current state of things, there really looks to be a...
It's kind of surprising that these brands haven't been pursing aero on xc bikes. Considering the current state of things, there really looks to be a bunch of low hanging fruit that should have minimal downsides. Stuff like aero tweaking the frame, bars, wheels, tires, etc. The new WTB tires look really interesting, really surprising that Conti hasn't done something like that with the dubnital. Especially when you consider how much chat there was about how surprisingly aero the race king was and how much crossover those tires get in gravel racing too.
Apparently Stromm who worked with WTB on those new tires is developing a new gravel frame and wheelset which I would imagine would have some influence on XC too. Would seem like the perfect thing for a company like Enve to do with their upcoming xc bike. They already do a lot of aero R&D, have a good story to tell there, and can use it as a USP as to why you'd buy their bike instead of just another epic. Aero tweaked frame, bars, wheels, etc. seems 100% in their wheelhouse.
Aero drag is 80-85% the rider, which can be optimized by the position and clothing/helmets. The bike optimization is marginal gains. After the weight weenie period, the industry needed the next thing, which was aero. Reason is that, in contrast to mountain bikes, the UCI would not allow the introduction of another wheelsize. 😉
It definitely doesn't have minimal effect.
Because the rider position can only be so optimized the bike is even more important for aero.
Go ride a normal road bike and ride an aero one, it takes a lot less watts to hold 40km/h on the aero one.
The wider the tire, the more you stand to gain by making the rim aero. No reason to give up on aero cos the tire is...
The wider the tire, the more you stand to gain by making the rim aero. No reason to give up on aero cos the tire is wide.
Is there some science to back that up? I haven't seen sims or experiments, but I would guess that the air behind a knobby 2.4" tire is wildly turbulent, and I'd find it surprising if it would reattach to an aero rim. That rim does look wide, but that's asking a lot. Wonder if I could interest a student in a simple CFX sim to test the idea out.
Also, the wide, knobby tires, FS and 10-52 cassette don't fit into the usual gravel configuration. Maybe useful for something like Leadville, with a monster chainring. I can't imaging this paying off in any of the XCO or XCC tracks this year.
As to the reduced spoke length resulting in a stiffer wheel, the angle-change is incredibly small. Also, seems like a lot of XC pros are opting for compliant wheels (shallow CF rims and Berd spokes) rather than super stiff wheels.
It's kind of surprising that these brands haven't been pursing aero on xc bikes. Considering the current state of things, there really looks to be a...
It's kind of surprising that these brands haven't been pursing aero on xc bikes. Considering the current state of things, there really looks to be a bunch of low hanging fruit that should have minimal downsides. Stuff like aero tweaking the frame, bars, wheels, tires, etc. The new WTB tires look really interesting, really surprising that Conti hasn't done something like that with the dubnital. Especially when you consider how much chat there was about how surprisingly aero the race king was and how much crossover those tires get in gravel racing too.
Apparently Stromm who worked with WTB on those new tires is developing a new gravel frame and wheelset which I would imagine would have some influence on XC too. Would seem like the perfect thing for a company like Enve to do with their upcoming xc bike. They already do a lot of aero R&D, have a good story to tell there, and can use it as a USP as to why you'd buy their bike instead of just another epic. Aero tweaked frame, bars, wheels, etc. seems 100% in their wheelhouse.
Aero drag is 80-85% the rider, which can be optimized by the position and clothing/helmets. The bike optimization is marginal gains. After the weight weenie period, the industry needed the next thing, which was aero. Reason is that, in contrast to mountain bikes, the UCI would not allow the introduction of another wheelsize. 😉
I have a roadie friend who is something like 6'5", but skinny as a rail, and he puts droppers on most of his road bikes. On a non-aero frame, he can blow by people on aero-frames on the downhills. For sure, body drag overwhelms all else.
I have a roadie friend who is something like 6'5", but skinny as a rail, and he puts droppers on most of his road bikes. On...
I have a roadie friend who is something like 6'5", but skinny as a rail, and he puts droppers on most of his road bikes. On a non-aero frame, he can blow by people on aero-frames on the downhills. For sure, body drag overwhelms all else.
Is there some science to back that up? I haven't seen sims or experiments, but I would guess that the air behind a knobby 2.4" tire...
Is there some science to back that up? I haven't seen sims or experiments, but I would guess that the air behind a knobby 2.4" tire is wildly turbulent, and I'd find it surprising if it would reattach to an aero rim. That rim does look wide, but that's asking a lot. Wonder if I could interest a student in a simple CFX sim to test the idea out.
Also, the wide, knobby tires, FS and 10-52 cassette don't fit into the usual gravel configuration. Maybe useful for something like Leadville, with a monster chainring. I can't imaging this paying off in any of the XCO or XCC tracks this year.
As to the reduced spoke length resulting in a stiffer wheel, the angle-change is incredibly small. Also, seems like a lot of XC pros are opting for compliant wheels (shallow CF rims and Berd spokes) rather than super stiff wheels.
No, but considering how slick some of the tires are that are in fairly frequent rotation, my gut feel is that it would be more than useful.
Been a while since I've worked with fluid sims though.
Not a good news from atherton bikes but I don't know where else to post this https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1C8YsHaxjN/
I have no idea what are you talking about?
I don't see any "hardcore" riders getting on e-bikes around this part of the world. I do see many e-bikes, but most of them are sticking to blue trails and generally ridden by people I wouldn't have seen on trails before. The "hardcore" riders still ride mountain bikes just like before around here, with a few exceptions obviously.
There's definitely no shortage of a market for long travel enduro bikes. There's also a plenty of reasons not to get a Turbo Levo or any other eMTB over an actual MTB.
Statement from Atherton Bikes regarding the fire at their HQ:
Statement from Atherton Bikes | 11 October 2026
We are devastated to confirm that there has been a fire at Atherton Bikes HQ and factory in Machynlleth.
Mid and West Wales Fire and Rescue Service have been incredible in their response and have brought the situation under control.
Most importantly, we can confirm that nobody was injured and everyone is safe.
We are still working to understand the full extent of the damage. We recognise that this news will be particularly concerning for customers with bikes on order.
We anticipate disruption to production and deliveries, but at this stage it's too early to understand the full impact.
As soon as we have more information, we will update affected customers directly and share further details with the wider community.
Please keep our staff and the wider Atherton Bikes team, who call this place home, in your thoughts.
Thank you to everyone who has reached out with messages of support. It means a great deal to us all.
Dan, Gee and Rachel Atherton & Dan Brown, CEO.
Wow. Have been kind of in-awe of how the Athertons evolved from top-level WC Elites to bike park / bike company owners, the whole unique development / production of their bikes, etc. Such a shame to see this news for them and their company. I was just watching a Rach interview recently, how she was talking about how the bike company had managed to bring so many people to their hub. This has got to be devastating for them all.
A lot of companies are pushing aero on the more race oriented gravel bikes now...
The wider the tire, the more you stand to gain by making the rim aero. No reason to give up on aero cos the tire is wide.
Long format cyclocross has no place in this thread!
It's funny how much MTB tech is showing up in that world right now..
I mean we have discussed this before, early days XC/marathon was mostly dirt/gravel roads and some singletracks, they both became more technical and gravel bikes filled the fire road/light singletrack gap and they are now leaning more and more towards the mtb, while keeping their niche... Aero there also makes a lot of sense as its still more endurance type of cycling.
But the aero is not to be undestimated in MTB as well, we all remember when UCI banned lycra in dh racing but pretty much every professional dh racer now wears tailor made super tight kits. The thing with aero rims on DH/enduro bike is that with them being tall they are also super stiff and would probably make the ride really uncomfortable.
Kaiden Ingersol's Rampage run: at the start he does 4 awkward ratcheting half cranks to get up to speed rather than a full pedal rotation.
Weird rider quirk or has he got something limiting his crank rotation to keep them in place for no foot tricks?
37:10 on the video below
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeJtToRrgh4&t=5510s
Bike looks like a regular single speed with tensioner
https://www.pinkbike.com/photo/30382972/
Looks like a quirk developed from running a crank stopper, plus keeping his feet and pedals in the sweet spot. I dusted off a Hope Pro 4 hub for my flatbar roadie that does the same thing every time I'm coasting and hit a bump, crack, or paver. Reminds me of life before high-engagement ratchet hubs, while punishing me for riding skinny tires on purpose.
Man, that Van Rysel is a bit of a harbinger of the future of XC. Was it one or two races where Cannondale was experimenting with deep-section wheels and the field was running near semi-slicks for the short-track races. 32's and deep-profile wheels could mean courses with few to no tight, twisty tech sections or sudden transitions. More long, sweeping turns, XC motorways, and straight-line tech sections.
That being said, Nove Mesto XCO will look wild with 32's on some of those existing sections, and MSA's XC tech sections will also be wicked to see.
I’m confused that you both are confused about this. The “bitch crank”, as I used to see it referred to on Bmx forums as a teenager, is very normal. If you don’t think you have quite enough speed, then you just do a couple ratchets before you get to the object you’re hitting. It’s kind of a fidgety quirky move as you both said, but very normal for someone to do as they mentally prepare for something. I see people do it all the time in mountain biking as well, as they approach an obstacle and try to make sense of speed for it.
you’re the dad who sets your kid’s BMX bike with a 400mm seatpost
“Efficiency!”
I've always thought that a bitch crank was (full) pedalstrokes inbetween jumps because you messed up the previous landing/trying to solve the next jump with speed rather than technique.
There's one local flow line that I have yet to complete without such a crank.
I think you’re right; that can also be a bitch crank. I’m not sure which if either is more correct usage really or if they both work. Regardless I guess, doing little ratchets is very normal.
The guy in question probably was running a crank stopper of some sort, given his riding style, but I would fully chalk the ratchet up to jitters and gaging speed.
Considering he could turn the cranks more or less normally to high five or something off screen before the run it doesn't look like he had crank stoppers...
It's kind of surprising that these brands haven't been pursing aero on xc bikes. Considering the current state of things, there really looks to be a bunch of low hanging fruit that should have minimal downsides. Stuff like aero tweaking the frame, bars, wheels, tires, etc. The new WTB tires look really interesting, really surprising that Conti hasn't done something like that with the dubnital. Especially when you consider how much chat there was about how surprisingly aero the race king was and how much crossover those tires get in gravel racing too.
Apparently Stromm who worked with WTB on those new tires is developing a new gravel frame and wheelset which I would imagine would have some influence on XC too. Would seem like the perfect thing for a company like Enve to do with their upcoming xc bike. They already do a lot of aero R&D, have a good story to tell there, and can use it as a USP as to why you'd buy their bike instead of just another epic. Aero tweaked frame, bars, wheels, etc. seems 100% in their wheelhouse.
Maybe because even on the road it has minimal effect?
https://sevencycles.com/articles/aerodynamic-frame-design.php
Aero drag is 80-85% the rider, which can be optimized by the position and clothing/helmets. The bike optimization is marginal gains. After the weight weenie period, the industry needed the next thing, which was aero. Reason is that, in contrast to mountain bikes, the UCI would not allow the introduction of another wheelsize. 😉
It definitely doesn't have minimal effect.
Because the rider position can only be so optimized the bike is even more important for aero.
Go ride a normal road bike and ride an aero one, it takes a lot less watts to hold 40km/h on the aero one.
Back to talking about cool things
https://www.instagram.com/p/DeZ63SZTixx/?psln=bmEycWhsM21iMDB3
Is there some science to back that up? I haven't seen sims or experiments, but I would guess that the air behind a knobby 2.4" tire is wildly turbulent, and I'd find it surprising if it would reattach to an aero rim. That rim does look wide, but that's asking a lot. Wonder if I could interest a student in a simple CFX sim to test the idea out.
Also, the wide, knobby tires, FS and 10-52 cassette don't fit into the usual gravel configuration. Maybe useful for something like Leadville, with a monster chainring. I can't imaging this paying off in any of the XCO or XCC tracks this year.
As to the reduced spoke length resulting in a stiffer wheel, the angle-change is incredibly small. Also, seems like a lot of XC pros are opting for compliant wheels (shallow CF rims and Berd spokes) rather than super stiff wheels.
I have a roadie friend who is something like 6'5", but skinny as a rail, and he puts droppers on most of his road bikes. On a non-aero frame, he can blow by people on aero-frames on the downhills. For sure, body drag overwhelms all else.
A couple of years ago, Keegan played around with aero-fairings on his Sid, at Leadville (https://www.bikeradar.com/features/opinion/aero-fairings-mtb-next-big-t…). I don't think I've seen him try it again.
From Hardline BC video. Linkage driven single pivot. Doesn't look like it's one of his old konas wrapped.
As someone who's seen a lot of Konas (and owned a few), that rear dropout/pivot area looks a lot like a Kona to me.
You could start a separate thread about aerodynamics and gravel, maybe people would care.
It’s a lot more complicated than simple variables or even aerodynamics in isolation.
No, but considering how slick some of the tires are that are in fairly frequent rotation, my gut feel is that it would be more than useful.
Been a while since I've worked with fluid sims though.
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