You guys know anything about the ebike tuned Fox forks? My eeb came with an ebike "tuned" Fox 38 (2025 Performance). Says so on the crown...
You guys know anything about the ebike tuned Fox forks?
My eeb came with an ebike "tuned" Fox 38 (2025 Performance). Says so on the crown. Neat-o I thought. Maybe they beefed up the chassis.
Well, turns out it's in the damping tune. Not like a beefier crown or stanchions.
Apparently it is a lighter rebound tune. This is what I've read. Well, so, I guess that's why my fork rebounds so fast...
Does that make sense? If the bike is heavier, it would need more pressure, therefore you'd need more damping, not less. Am I right?
I have rebound on this thing at full closed and it is still too fast. Throws me off line sometimes. Go full open, and it bounces you to the moon. That is what made me research this.
If I'm completely missing something, let me know. Otherwise I guess I'm taking the fork to the local bros and pay them for heavier rebound damping.
I am not sure what tune I have on my 38 but it came stock on my ebike. I have found that the rebound tune is that fast. I am full open on LSR and close to the middle on HSR. This is last gen 38 to so not the new airspring. What I did find is I need quite a bit more pressure than the fork leg says. I did find in the manual they give an ebike specific air chart but it wasnt the same as the fork leg. 180# rider @ 110-115 psi 1 token
You guys know anything about the ebike tuned Fox forks? My eeb came with an ebike "tuned" Fox 38 (2025 Performance). Says so on the crown...
You guys know anything about the ebike tuned Fox forks?
My eeb came with an ebike "tuned" Fox 38 (2025 Performance). Says so on the crown. Neat-o I thought. Maybe they beefed up the chassis.
Well, turns out it's in the damping tune. Not like a beefier crown or stanchions.
Apparently it is a lighter rebound tune. This is what I've read. Well, so, I guess that's why my fork rebounds so fast...
Does that make sense? If the bike is heavier, it would need more pressure, therefore you'd need more damping, not less. Am I right?
I have rebound on this thing at full closed and it is still too fast. Throws me off line sometimes. Go full open, and it bounces you to the moon. That is what made me research this.
If I'm completely missing something, let me know. Otherwise I guess I'm taking the fork to the local bros and pay them for heavier rebound damping.
The Grip2 VVC-Generation dampers had lighter compression tunes and the X2 stuff has custom tuned dampers depending on the frame brand.
Meybe im mistaken but i thought the latest spesh motor was a mahle. In any case, spesh are rumoured to be working with Gabao and will have...
Meybe im mistaken but i thought the latest spesh motor was a mahle.
In any case, spesh are rumoured to be working with Gabao and will have a spesh branded Gabao probably next year so your theory of getting rid of current stock holds true. Gabao ecvt with software/feel developed by spesh eeb designers could be what it needs.
This might be too much $ to sink into my 2019 decoy but the bike does seem to be bombproof and now could be futere proof.
No, the 3.1 is still a Brose manufactured unit. It sounds like (rumour) Specialized did initially approach Mahle for them Levo 4 but it didn't work...
No, the 3.1 is still a Brose manufactured unit. It sounds like (rumour) Specialized did initially approach Mahle for them Levo 4 but it didn't work out and they went back to Brose.
Thanks, its nice that brose changed from that belt system. Supposedly the gabao system is quite affordable. I wonder if spesh will actually make adfordable bikes...
Thanks, its nice that brose changed from that belt system.
Supposedly the gabao system is quite affordable. I wonder if spesh will actually make adfordable bikes. Thats probably their biggest barrier currently. Im not a huge avinox fanboi, i think i'd prefer bosch, but its tempting when their bikes are half the price of a spesh
The Belt system failed a lot because (heavy) riders like to 'shift' with their motor. The good thing about it is that it feels really good and is absolutely rattle free.
No, the 3.1 is still a Brose manufactured unit. It sounds like (rumour) Specialized did initially approach Mahle for them Levo 4 but it didn't work...
No, the 3.1 is still a Brose manufactured unit. It sounds like (rumour) Specialized did initially approach Mahle for them Levo 4 but it didn't work out and they went back to Brose.
Thanks, its nice that brose changed from that belt system. Supposedly the gabao system is quite affordable. I wonder if spesh will actually make adfordable bikes...
Thanks, its nice that brose changed from that belt system.
Supposedly the gabao system is quite affordable. I wonder if spesh will actually make adfordable bikes. Thats probably their biggest barrier currently. Im not a huge avinox fanboi, i think i'd prefer bosch, but its tempting when their bikes are half the price of a spesh
The Belt system failed a lot because (heavy) riders like to 'shift' with their motor. The good thing about it is that it feels really good...
The Belt system failed a lot because (heavy) riders like to 'shift' with their motor. The good thing about it is that it feels really good and is absolutely rattle free.
I know it did a lot of things well and i didnt know shifting with the motor was a thing but i highly doubt that was the cause of all their problems. The failure rate/customer was higher than 100%. Many people warranteed several motors. No way theyre all motor shifters plus the clutch was blowing up as well. No other motor has even close to that amount of failures. Spesh was quite good with warranteeing them and several service centers were able to fix them but do you really want to go thru 6, 7 ,8 motors? No thanks
A lot of people loving powerful ebike motors are on the heavier side and for them a motor feels also weaker relatively speaking. Of course the belt was a weak point but Specialized/Borse probably didn't realize in their testing laps that the endu users will use their products very differently and many emtb customers are newbies to the sport who before lacked the fitness or the health to even pursue the sport on this level. Many also have some kind of petrolhead type mentality when it comes to ebikes which shows in the whole motor centric debate around emtbs. And often the customers are boomers who have a more car centric mindset anyway. In many ebike communities some members seem to be confused that a battery doesn't behave like a petrol driven enginge in the sense that you can't just go full throttle all the time and it will last as long every ride etc.They used turbo way more than the testers which resulted in the broken belt fiasko. If Specialized would have known about this issue beforehand I don't think they would have released the motor like that but probably pushed a mandatory firmware update much sooner or even before release.
A lot of people loving powerful ebike motors are on the heavier side and for them a motor feels also weaker relatively speaking. Of course the...
A lot of people loving powerful ebike motors are on the heavier side and for them a motor feels also weaker relatively speaking. Of course the belt was a weak point but Specialized/Borse probably didn't realize in their testing laps that the endu users will use their products very differently and many emtb customers are newbies to the sport who before lacked the fitness or the health to even pursue the sport on this level. Many also have some kind of petrolhead type mentality when it comes to ebikes which shows in the whole motor centric debate around emtbs. And often the customers are boomers who have a more car centric mindset anyway. In many ebike communities some members seem to be confused that a battery doesn't behave like a petrol driven enginge in the sense that you can't just go full throttle all the time and it will last as long every ride etc.They used turbo way more than the testers which resulted in the broken belt fiasko. If Specialized would have known about this issue beforehand I don't think they would have released the motor like that but probably pushed a mandatory firmware update much sooner or even before release.
Oh ya right that firmware update smoothed out the power. It took swveral years to get it fixed. Finally they ditched the belt. Most of the other motors are near as quiet now. Power wasnt the problem with them. Honestly its probably enough even currently. It was quite good for energy consumption, similar to bosch. Still too risky compared to the current crop
If they already have a way above average finished product (avinox mg), while they released the m2s a few months back, why couldn't it be that...
If they already have a way above average finished product (avinox mg), while they released the m2s a few months back, why couldn't it be that they also have semi solid state batteries already?
By the way, that mondraker frame looks damn nice!!!
No such thing as semi solid state batteries, in the sense you mean. Technically most available batteries are "semi solid" state.
They could very easily go to molicell m65a's, which drop right into the existing battery packaging, and yield charging and discharging that's twice as fast, and add 20% more capacity. But they have not at this point. They've been widely available for a year. E-bikes is one of the last places you are going to see battery tech advances applied.
A lot of people loving powerful ebike motors are on the heavier side and for them a motor feels also weaker relatively speaking. Of course the...
A lot of people loving powerful ebike motors are on the heavier side and for them a motor feels also weaker relatively speaking. Of course the belt was a weak point but Specialized/Borse probably didn't realize in their testing laps that the endu users will use their products very differently and many emtb customers are newbies to the sport who before lacked the fitness or the health to even pursue the sport on this level. Many also have some kind of petrolhead type mentality when it comes to ebikes which shows in the whole motor centric debate around emtbs. And often the customers are boomers who have a more car centric mindset anyway. In many ebike communities some members seem to be confused that a battery doesn't behave like a petrol driven enginge in the sense that you can't just go full throttle all the time and it will last as long every ride etc.They used turbo way more than the testers which resulted in the broken belt fiasko. If Specialized would have known about this issue beforehand I don't think they would have released the motor like that but probably pushed a mandatory firmware update much sooner or even before release.
I worked at a Specialized dealer when the Levo came out and we had to remind most customers to actually shift. Most of them would leave it in one of the highest 3 gears and just use the power modes as the "gears" when riding the bike. Steep climb? Just put it in turbo and pedal a sub-20 RPM cadence. Lots of snapped belts and replaced chains. The majority of eBike buyers are nothing like existing mountain bikers
In 2018/2019, six of us bought Levos/Kenevos. We were all existing mountain bikers since the late 90s, we hardly used turbo because of range, none of us were on the heavier side, and we knew how to change gears. All motors failed.
In 2018/2019, six of us bought Levos/Kenevos. We were all existing mountain bikers since the late 90s, we hardly used turbo because of range, none of...
In 2018/2019, six of us bought Levos/Kenevos. We were all existing mountain bikers since the late 90s, we hardly used turbo because of range, none of us were on the heavier side, and we knew how to change gears. All motors failed.
I took the course to get a certificate for Brose repairs. The guy there, he is a total E-Motor nerd, said that especially early Brose motors had issues with the bearings on the axle that drives the belt. Therefore the belt started to wander and destroy itself. You could feel it once you opened up the housing from the belt. In these cases we did not replace the belt without replacing the bearings. Often the costs were to high for the customers. There was so many evolutions that you couldn’t tell from outside that I can not say when it seemed to be „fixed“. For my part, I still ride a 2021 gen. 3 Levo and it’s still working a charm. I am past 5500km, only Turbo but high cadency. The only issue I have since last season is derating on long climbs, even in Winter.
No such thing as semi solid state batteries, in the sense you mean. Technically most available batteries are "semi solid" state.They could very easily go to...
No such thing as semi solid state batteries, in the sense you mean. Technically most available batteries are "semi solid" state.
They could very easily go to molicell m65a's, which drop right into the existing battery packaging, and yield charging and discharging that's twice as fast, and add 20% more capacity. But they have not at this point. They've been widely available for a year. E-bikes is one of the last places you are going to see battery tech advances applied.
In 2018/2019, six of us bought Levos/Kenevos. We were all existing mountain bikers since the late 90s, we hardly used turbo because of range, none of...
In 2018/2019, six of us bought Levos/Kenevos. We were all existing mountain bikers since the late 90s, we hardly used turbo because of range, none of us were on the heavier side, and we knew how to change gears. All motors failed.
The problem is that online nobody admits this while in reality when I see people riding ebikes they often have a very slow, unnatrual cadence and are very often in higher power modes. And the more powerful the motor is the more it nudges the rider to pedal like this.
The motors got actual belt upgrades and other little things but I think it was also the firmware update that smoothed out the power peaks of the motor in certain scenarios. Because nowadays you rarely hear about snapped belts.
The problem is that online nobody admits this while in reality when I see people riding ebikes they often have a very slow, unnatrual cadence and...
The problem is that online nobody admits this while in reality when I see people riding ebikes they often have a very slow, unnatrual cadence and are very often in higher power modes. And the more powerful the motor is the more it nudges the rider to pedal like this.
The motors got actual belt upgrades and other little things but I think it was also the firmware update that smoothed out the power peaks of the motor in certain scenarios. Because nowadays you rarely hear about snapped belts.
I've never seen this 'unnatural cadence'. In fact I'd say a Specialized motor lets you know exactly what cadence it likes, and what it doesn't like.
The problem is that online nobody admits this while in reality when I see people riding ebikes they often have a very slow, unnatrual cadence and...
The problem is that online nobody admits this while in reality when I see people riding ebikes they often have a very slow, unnatrual cadence and are very often in higher power modes. And the more powerful the motor is the more it nudges the rider to pedal like this.
The motors got actual belt upgrades and other little things but I think it was also the firmware update that smoothed out the power peaks of the motor in certain scenarios. Because nowadays you rarely hear about snapped belts.
I've never seen this 'unnatural cadence'. In fact I'd say a Specialized motor lets you know exactly what cadence it likes, and what it doesn't like.
Oh, I've seen that unnatural cadence plenty on the fat lazy riders. But you're not wrong about the Brose motor letting you know what cadence it wants, it definitely would reward spinning in 85-90 rpm range with more efficiency. There are a large number of the average users who are oblivious to the signals though.
And yes, those things were notoriously unreliable. I have a buddy who's on his 5th motor. When I had a Levo gen 3, I needed a new motor in 11 months and I babied that thing. I've flogged my CX5 in comparison, done over twice the miles the Levo had before it died, and it still performs like new. And no thermal cutoff issues either.
The problem is that online nobody admits this while in reality when I see people riding ebikes they often have a very slow, unnatrual cadence and...
The problem is that online nobody admits this while in reality when I see people riding ebikes they often have a very slow, unnatrual cadence and are very often in higher power modes. And the more powerful the motor is the more it nudges the rider to pedal like this.
The motors got actual belt upgrades and other little things but I think it was also the firmware update that smoothed out the power peaks of the motor in certain scenarios. Because nowadays you rarely hear about snapped belts.
Oh, I've seen that unnatural cadence plenty on the fat lazy riders. But you're not wrong about the Brose motor letting you know what cadence it...
Oh, I've seen that unnatural cadence plenty on the fat lazy riders. But you're not wrong about the Brose motor letting you know what cadence it wants, it definitely would reward spinning in 85-90 rpm range with more efficiency. There are a large number of the average users who are oblivious to the signals though.
And yes, those things were notoriously unreliable. I have a buddy who's on his 5th motor. When I had a Levo gen 3, I needed a new motor in 11 months and I babied that thing. I've flogged my CX5 in comparison, done over twice the miles the Levo had before it died, and it still performs like new. And no thermal cutoff issues either.
While my overall ebike experience is limited, it seems to me all the bikes I've ridden tend to work better spinning the legs as opposed to pushing the hard gears..
While my overall ebike experience is limited, it seems to me all the bikes I've ridden tend to work better spinning the legs as opposed to...
While my overall ebike experience is limited, it seems to me all the bikes I've ridden tend to work better spinning the legs as opposed to pushing the hard gears..
Yeah, I prefer pushing harder gears at slower cadence, like around 65rpm. Having to spin to the eeb's liking has taken a little getting used to. I'm still getting used to it. Especially out of the saddle. Feels like I'm gonna smack my knees on my handlebar.
So it's like, I guess I'll just sit...like the witch in Wizard of Oz when she is pedaling in the air with Toto in the tornado...and humming that music...
It depends on the motor power and characteristic. The e8000 Shimano motor loved high cadence. Like you had to actually pedal if you wanted to get power in toguht sections and it felt very natural. The Bosch cx4 feels very unnatural with the unconfigurable purion display. With it's weak eco mode and a heavy bike it pushed me to use the more powerful way more than I wanted and I rode with it faster on fireroads. Not bad for climbing trails tho. The gen3 levo was the first full power motor with an overrun feature which is helpful in technical sections and it has a great balance between power and natural feel plus noise.
The problems of newbies with cadence and shifting is also probably one of the reasons the transmission, linklide and other burlier E-Bike drivetrains got invented. Also those single click shifters. Because newbies also destroyed chains or while derailleurs while trying to shift with turbo left and right.
Like if you know how to shift you can shift just fine with the old groupsets or even much faster than with transmission but if you have no feel for it you can quickly destroy your drivetrain.
No such thing as semi solid state batteries, in the sense you mean. Technically most available batteries are "semi solid" state.They could very easily go to...
No such thing as semi solid state batteries, in the sense you mean. Technically most available batteries are "semi solid" state.
They could very easily go to molicell m65a's, which drop right into the existing battery packaging, and yield charging and discharging that's twice as fast, and add 20% more capacity. But they have not at this point. They've been widely available for a year. E-bikes is one of the last places you are going to see battery tech advances applied.
Current cells for emtb batteries are li-ion 18650 and 21700.
Not in the sense that one would like them to be, as there are no tangible performance advantages beyond the marketing. That cell format has existed for quite some time, they're simply slapping the "semi-solid" label on it.
Like I said, the next advance, which has already been readily available on the market for over a year, is the molicell m65a. They're a 21700 format, and would drop right in to most manufacturers packs, including avinox. It's somewhat inexcusable that they're not being used, as they are a large capacity and c rating upgrade. Each cell is 6500mah compared to the current industry standard 5300mah. Standard 21700 configurations being used are either 10s3p (600wh) or 10s4p (800wh).
Anyone else finding the "chain tensioner" feature of the latest Bosch update to be annoying? Apparently you'll be able to turn it off in a future update. But right now I'll be coasting along downhill and constantly hear the DU activating. It's pretty distracting, and I don't feel any benefit.
I talked to a guy who works for a Trek dealer. He confirmed the TQ120 is coming, and that they've got a novel approach to battery capacity with it. Sounds really interesting.
I talked to a guy who works for a Trek dealer. He confirmed the TQ120 is coming, and that they've got a novel approach to battery...
I talked to a guy who works for a Trek dealer. He confirmed the TQ120 is coming, and that they've got a novel approach to battery capacity with it. Sounds really interesting.
Really hope it’s a swappable battery with 400 and 600 options. 400 for lunch rides. 600+ range extender for backcountry missions. 2x 600 for self shuttle. Maybe even let bikes be run on range extender only like the Levo SL can.
Perfect ebike right there and has the unmatched looks of a TQ motor.
It doesn’t seem like Avinox is interested in this type of battery modularity so that’d be a great way to flank them.
I talked to a guy who works for a Trek dealer. He confirmed the TQ120 is coming, and that they've got a novel approach to battery...
I talked to a guy who works for a Trek dealer. He confirmed the TQ120 is coming, and that they've got a novel approach to battery capacity with it. Sounds really interesting.
Really hope it’s a swappable battery with 400 and 600 options. 400 for lunch rides. 600+ range extender for backcountry missions. 2x 600 for self shuttle...
Really hope it’s a swappable battery with 400 and 600 options. 400 for lunch rides. 600+ range extender for backcountry missions. 2x 600 for self shuttle. Maybe even let bikes be run on range extender only like the Levo SL can.
Perfect ebike right there and has the unmatched looks of a TQ motor.
It doesn’t seem like Avinox is interested in this type of battery modularity so that’d be a great way to flank them.
Removable batteries just have too many compromises and only a small subset of riders really feel the need for them.
The small weight savings between a 400 & a 600 wh battery would be eaten up by the additional mass of having a removable battery anyways.
Worth noting, it's very helpful to a battery's life span to never fully charge or fully drain. So, if you 'need' a 400wh battery to complete your typical ride, a 600wh battery allows you to keep the battery between 20-80% charge at all times.
Really hope it’s a swappable battery with 400 and 600 options. 400 for lunch rides. 600+ range extender for backcountry missions. 2x 600 for self shuttle...
Really hope it’s a swappable battery with 400 and 600 options. 400 for lunch rides. 600+ range extender for backcountry missions. 2x 600 for self shuttle. Maybe even let bikes be run on range extender only like the Levo SL can.
Perfect ebike right there and has the unmatched looks of a TQ motor.
It doesn’t seem like Avinox is interested in this type of battery modularity so that’d be a great way to flank them.
Removable batteries just have too many compromises and only a small subset of riders really feel the need for them.The small weight savings between a 400...
Removable batteries just have too many compromises and only a small subset of riders really feel the need for them.
The small weight savings between a 400 & a 600 wh battery would be eaten up by the additional mass of having a removable battery anyways.
Worth noting, it's very helpful to a battery's life span to never fully charge or fully drain. So, if you 'need' a 400wh battery to complete your typical ride, a 600wh battery allows you to keep the battery between 20-80% charge at all times.
that additional mass will be in the exact right place unlike any other re
I talked to a guy who works for a Trek dealer. He confirmed the TQ120 is coming, and that they've got a novel approach to battery...
I talked to a guy who works for a Trek dealer. He confirmed the TQ120 is coming, and that they've got a novel approach to battery capacity with it. Sounds really interesting.
Really hope it’s a swappable battery with 400 and 600 options. 400 for lunch rides. 600+ range extender for backcountry missions. 2x 600 for self shuttle...
Really hope it’s a swappable battery with 400 and 600 options. 400 for lunch rides. 600+ range extender for backcountry missions. 2x 600 for self shuttle. Maybe even let bikes be run on range extender only like the Levo SL can.
Perfect ebike right there and has the unmatched looks of a TQ motor.
It doesn’t seem like Avinox is interested in this type of battery modularity so that’d be a great way to flank them.
Removable batteries just have too many compromises and only a small subset of riders really feel the need for them.The small weight savings between a 400...
Removable batteries just have too many compromises and only a small subset of riders really feel the need for them.
The small weight savings between a 400 & a 600 wh battery would be eaten up by the additional mass of having a removable battery anyways.
Worth noting, it's very helpful to a battery's life span to never fully charge or fully drain. So, if you 'need' a 400wh battery to complete your typical ride, a 600wh battery allows you to keep the battery between 20-80% charge at all times.
Depends how the battery is removed. With a small form factor motor like two sliding out different length batteries at the bottom of the downtube can be realized with a minimal weight penalty plus you get a lower center of gravity with the smaller battery. I do that all the time and most of my rides are done with the smaller battery and it handles much better that way.
Really hope it’s a swappable battery with 400 and 600 options. 400 for lunch rides. 600+ range extender for backcountry missions. 2x 600 for self shuttle...
Really hope it’s a swappable battery with 400 and 600 options. 400 for lunch rides. 600+ range extender for backcountry missions. 2x 600 for self shuttle. Maybe even let bikes be run on range extender only like the Levo SL can.
Perfect ebike right there and has the unmatched looks of a TQ motor.
It doesn’t seem like Avinox is interested in this type of battery modularity so that’d be a great way to flank them.
Removable batteries just have too many compromises and only a small subset of riders really feel the need for them.The small weight savings between a 400...
Removable batteries just have too many compromises and only a small subset of riders really feel the need for them.
The small weight savings between a 400 & a 600 wh battery would be eaten up by the additional mass of having a removable battery anyways.
Worth noting, it's very helpful to a battery's life span to never fully charge or fully drain. So, if you 'need' a 400wh battery to complete your typical ride, a 600wh battery allows you to keep the battery between 20-80% charge at all times.
Depends how the battery is removed. With a small form factor motor like two sliding out different length batteries at the bottom of the downtube can...
Depends how the battery is removed. With a small form factor motor like two sliding out different length batteries at the bottom of the downtube can be realized with a minimal weight penalty plus you get a lower center of gravity with the smaller battery. I do that all the time and most of my rides are done with the smaller battery and it handles much better that way.
I thought the battery removal style on the Levo 3 was quite good. You just unplugged the cable from the side (same as if you were going to charge) then undid a single big bolt underneath and the whole battery slid out. I've got to think that kind of system added a lot less weight than the giant removable side panels on the Levo 4 or some of the Bosch Trek bikes, or the removable bottom panel which needed to be bolted onto the bottom on the Transition Relay.
I still say Crestline's Bosch system was the best. Slide right out the bottom. Ultimate modularity being able to use the 400, 600 and 800 battery with just different brackets bolted to the battery. Battery was bolted straight through the downtube, no latches or anything to deal with. I think this new Fuel+ will be similar.
I am not sure what tune I have on my 38 but it came stock on my ebike. I have found that the rebound tune is that fast. I am full open on LSR and close to the middle on HSR. This is last gen 38 to so not the new airspring. What I did find is I need quite a bit more pressure than the fork leg says. I did find in the manual they give an ebike specific air chart but it wasnt the same as the fork leg. 180# rider @ 110-115 psi 1 token
The Grip2 VVC-Generation dampers had lighter compression tunes and the X2 stuff has custom tuned dampers depending on the frame brand.
The Belt system failed a lot because (heavy) riders like to 'shift' with their motor. The good thing about it is that it feels really good and is absolutely rattle free.
I know it did a lot of things well and i didnt know shifting with the motor was a thing but i highly doubt that was the cause of all their problems. The failure rate/customer was higher than 100%. Many people warranteed several motors. No way theyre all motor shifters plus the clutch was blowing up as well. No other motor has even close to that amount of failures. Spesh was quite good with warranteeing them and several service centers were able to fix them but do you really want to go thru 6, 7 ,8 motors? No thanks
A lot of people loving powerful ebike motors are on the heavier side and for them a motor feels also weaker relatively speaking. Of course the belt was a weak point but Specialized/Borse probably didn't realize in their testing laps that the endu users will use their products very differently and many emtb customers are newbies to the sport who before lacked the fitness or the health to even pursue the sport on this level. Many also have some kind of petrolhead type mentality when it comes to ebikes which shows in the whole motor centric debate around emtbs. And often the customers are boomers who have a more car centric mindset anyway. In many ebike communities some members seem to be confused that a battery doesn't behave like a petrol driven enginge in the sense that you can't just go full throttle all the time and it will last as long every ride etc.They used turbo way more than the testers which resulted in the broken belt fiasko. If Specialized would have known about this issue beforehand I don't think they would have released the motor like that but probably pushed a mandatory firmware update much sooner or even before release.
Oh ya right that firmware update smoothed out the power. It took swveral years to get it fixed. Finally they ditched the belt. Most of the other motors are near as quiet now. Power wasnt the problem with them. Honestly its probably enough even currently. It was quite good for energy consumption, similar to bosch. Still too risky compared to the current crop
No such thing as semi solid state batteries, in the sense you mean. Technically most available batteries are "semi solid" state.
They could very easily go to molicell m65a's, which drop right into the existing battery packaging, and yield charging and discharging that's twice as fast, and add 20% more capacity. But they have not at this point. They've been widely available for a year. E-bikes is one of the last places you are going to see battery tech advances applied.
I worked at a Specialized dealer when the Levo came out and we had to remind most customers to actually shift. Most of them would leave it in one of the highest 3 gears and just use the power modes as the "gears" when riding the bike. Steep climb? Just put it in turbo and pedal a sub-20 RPM cadence. Lots of snapped belts and replaced chains. The majority of eBike buyers are nothing like existing mountain bikers
In 2018/2019, six of us bought Levos/Kenevos. We were all existing mountain bikers since the late 90s, we hardly used turbo because of range, none of us were on the heavier side, and we knew how to change gears. All motors failed.
I took the course to get a certificate for Brose repairs. The guy there, he is a total E-Motor nerd, said that especially early Brose motors had issues with the bearings on the axle that drives the belt. Therefore the belt started to wander and destroy itself. You could feel it once you opened up the housing from the belt. In these cases we did not replace the belt without replacing the bearings. Often the costs were to high for the customers. There was so many evolutions that you couldn’t tell from outside that I can not say when it seemed to be „fixed“. For my part, I still ride a 2021 gen. 3 Levo and it’s still working a charm. I am past 5500km, only Turbo but high cadency. The only issue I have since last season is derating on long climbs, even in Winter.
Aren't these semi solid state? WELION - The Solid-State Pioneers
Current cells for emtb batteries are li-ion 18650 and 21700.
The problem is that online nobody admits this while in reality when I see people riding ebikes they often have a very slow, unnatrual cadence and are very often in higher power modes. And the more powerful the motor is the more it nudges the rider to pedal like this.
The motors got actual belt upgrades and other little things but I think it was also the firmware update that smoothed out the power peaks of the motor in certain scenarios. Because nowadays you rarely hear about snapped belts.
I've never seen this 'unnatural cadence'. In fact I'd say a Specialized motor lets you know exactly what cadence it likes, and what it doesn't like.
Oh, I've seen that unnatural cadence plenty on the fat lazy riders. But you're not wrong about the Brose motor letting you know what cadence it wants, it definitely would reward spinning in 85-90 rpm range with more efficiency. There are a large number of the average users who are oblivious to the signals though.
And yes, those things were notoriously unreliable. I have a buddy who's on his 5th motor. When I had a Levo gen 3, I needed a new motor in 11 months and I babied that thing. I've flogged my CX5 in comparison, done over twice the miles the Levo had before it died, and it still performs like new. And no thermal cutoff issues either.
I’m glad we’re back to talking about e-bikes here, instead of how purifying going back to the regular bike felt. Take your baptism elsewhere.
While my overall ebike experience is limited, it seems to me all the bikes I've ridden tend to work better spinning the legs as opposed to pushing the hard gears..
Yeah, I prefer pushing harder gears at slower cadence, like around 65rpm. Having to spin to the eeb's liking has taken a little getting used to. I'm still getting used to it. Especially out of the saddle. Feels like I'm gonna smack my knees on my handlebar.
So it's like, I guess I'll just sit...like the witch in Wizard of Oz when she is pedaling in the air with Toto in the tornado...and humming that music...
It depends on the motor power and characteristic. The e8000 Shimano motor loved high cadence. Like you had to actually pedal if you wanted to get power in toguht sections and it felt very natural. The Bosch cx4 feels very unnatural with the unconfigurable purion display. With it's weak eco mode and a heavy bike it pushed me to use the more powerful way more than I wanted and I rode with it faster on fireroads. Not bad for climbing trails tho. The gen3 levo was the first full power motor with an overrun feature which is helpful in technical sections and it has a great balance between power and natural feel plus noise.
The problems of newbies with cadence and shifting is also probably one of the reasons the transmission, linklide and other burlier E-Bike drivetrains got invented. Also those single click shifters. Because newbies also destroyed chains or while derailleurs while trying to shift with turbo left and right.
Like if you know how to shift you can shift just fine with the old groupsets or even much faster than with transmission but if you have no feel for it you can quickly destroy your drivetrain.
Yep, decent riders who push the limits of an ebike, and crash regularly because of it - you're fine.
Noobs who can't shift? That ebike won't last 5 minutes.
Not in the sense that one would like them to be, as there are no tangible performance advantages beyond the marketing. That cell format has existed for quite some time, they're simply slapping the "semi-solid" label on it.
Like I said, the next advance, which has already been readily available on the market for over a year, is the molicell m65a. They're a 21700 format, and would drop right in to most manufacturers packs, including avinox. It's somewhat inexcusable that they're not being used, as they are a large capacity and c rating upgrade. Each cell is 6500mah compared to the current industry standard 5300mah. Standard 21700 configurations being used are either 10s3p (600wh) or 10s4p (800wh).
Anyone else finding the "chain tensioner" feature of the latest Bosch update to be annoying? Apparently you'll be able to turn it off in a future update. But right now I'll be coasting along downhill and constantly hear the DU activating. It's pretty distracting, and I don't feel any benefit.
I talked to a guy who works for a Trek dealer. He confirmed the TQ120 is coming, and that they've got a novel approach to battery capacity with it. Sounds really interesting.
Really hope it’s a swappable battery with 400 and 600 options. 400 for lunch rides. 600+ range extender for backcountry missions. 2x 600 for self shuttle. Maybe even let bikes be run on range extender only like the Levo SL can.
Perfect ebike right there and has the unmatched looks of a TQ motor.
It doesn’t seem like Avinox is interested in this type of battery modularity so that’d be a great way to flank them.
Removable batteries just have too many compromises and only a small subset of riders really feel the need for them.
The small weight savings between a 400 & a 600 wh battery would be eaten up by the additional mass of having a removable battery anyways.
Worth noting, it's very helpful to a battery's life span to never fully charge or fully drain. So, if you 'need' a 400wh battery to complete your typical ride, a 600wh battery allows you to keep the battery between 20-80% charge at all times.
you‘re pretty close
that additional mass will be in the exact right place unlike any other re
Depends how the battery is removed. With a small form factor motor like two sliding out different length batteries at the bottom of the downtube can be realized with a minimal weight penalty plus you get a lower center of gravity with the smaller battery. I do that all the time and most of my rides are done with the smaller battery and it handles much better that way.
I thought the battery removal style on the Levo 3 was quite good. You just unplugged the cable from the side (same as if you were going to charge) then undid a single big bolt underneath and the whole battery slid out. I've got to think that kind of system added a lot less weight than the giant removable side panels on the Levo 4 or some of the Bosch Trek bikes, or the removable bottom panel which needed to be bolted onto the bottom on the Transition Relay.
I still say Crestline's Bosch system was the best. Slide right out the bottom. Ultimate modularity being able to use the 400, 600 and 800 battery with just different brackets bolted to the battery. Battery was bolted straight through the downtube, no latches or anything to deal with. I think this new Fuel+ will be similar.
Specialized Levo R Ultralight - 41.4 pounds, $12,999 USD
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/s-works-turbo-levo-r-ultralight/p/4298375?color=5478134-4298375
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