On PB in kaz’s randoms, we have confirmation of the “brilliant” new spider aluminum analog in china retail only. Very very intriguing business play by intense
Did they restructure and bring in serious market analytics? Also: nice work Jeff and prosice looks stellar
For anyone who's curious what Weagle says about the Nighttrain suspension layout but doesn't want to scroll through IG comments, answering someone who asked about the...
For anyone who's curious what Weagle says about the Nighttrain suspension layout but doesn't want to scroll through IG comments, answering someone who asked about the design intent behind the bike:
"Initially trying to gain a bit more mid corner traction on race bikes but as I hated [typo?] on the idea more and more I began to appreciate that it solves a lot of other issues. Definitely not an immediately intuitive benefit for me, it grew on me. In the end it turns out that by the numbers and by seat of the pants human pedaling a bike, this is the most efficient drivetrain layout to get to a mid-pivot layout. Alternatives are more draggy, have more derailleur impact on the suspension and you can notice them riding. This thing is transparent to me. Can't feel it, can't hear it. Just makes traction and goes. I'm pretty stoked on it but I really can't wait to hear other people's take on it after they ride it and form their own opinions."
My two cents is that there is no way on earth this bike has 30mm of chainstay growth at sag. For instance, the Forbidden Supernought (a high pivot DH bike) has 21-23mm chainstay growth at 30-35% sag, and this is a "mid-pivot" 170mm bike.
my 2 cents after spending some time on the bike is that I really want to spend more time on the bike. A couple anecdotes here:
I was surprised at how well it pedalled and the lack of heft that I was expecting after looking at it.
After giving it back for a month I had to film on it with no time to get familiar again. First trail was a rapid North Van classic that I have ridden a bunch and I was immediately sending it. It was extremely poppy while still being planted, able to pull for all of the doubles and let it do it's thing in the rough stuff.
https://youtu.be/8I53wIUXaFo?si=NpwyQJ-KB3auebsP&t=13 at 0:13 seconds in the launch video I was hucking a nice double to flat and barely feeling a thing, coming in way too fast to the next unsupported corner and every take I was able to find the traction needed to carry my momentum into and out of the corner, always as a pleasant surprise.
I am waiting for my own production version of the bike to arrive and then I'll be doing a longer video on it, but I'm really just excited to get more time on it. It's an intriguing ride and I don't think I really found the limits yet.
For anyone who's curious what Weagle says about the Nighttrain suspension layout but doesn't want to scroll through IG comments, answering someone who asked about the...
For anyone who's curious what Weagle says about the Nighttrain suspension layout but doesn't want to scroll through IG comments, answering someone who asked about the design intent behind the bike:
"Initially trying to gain a bit more mid corner traction on race bikes but as I hated [typo?] on the idea more and more I began to appreciate that it solves a lot of other issues. Definitely not an immediately intuitive benefit for me, it grew on me. In the end it turns out that by the numbers and by seat of the pants human pedaling a bike, this is the most efficient drivetrain layout to get to a mid-pivot layout. Alternatives are more draggy, have more derailleur impact on the suspension and you can notice them riding. This thing is transparent to me. Can't feel it, can't hear it. Just makes traction and goes. I'm pretty stoked on it but I really can't wait to hear other people's take on it after they ride it and form their own opinions."
My two cents is that there is no way on earth this bike has 30mm of chainstay growth at sag. For instance, the Forbidden Supernought (a high pivot DH bike) has 21-23mm chainstay growth at 30-35% sag, and this is a "mid-pivot" 170mm bike.
I’m a skeptic too. I can’t intuit a 6-bar instant center off the top of my head, but even just looking at how the upper rocker link will move there would have to be something seriously dramatic going on with the lower links to get 30mm out of the flex stay.
I think you meant “kind of FUN geometry”.As a person who gets more than 100 bike park days a year, this is way more in line...
I think you meant “kind of FUN geometry”.
As a person who gets more than 100 bike park days a year, this is way more in line with how parkrats of all ages enjoy riding… ymmv
A friend of mine got a bit of an extended test on the Zink trail bike and loved it.. Maybe not a bike for me, but I'm thinking my son would be all over it. Different strokes for different folks...
XD and MS are irrelevant ever since the XS-1270 cassette achieved a 10 tooth cog on an HG driver. Seriously why do any other freehub bodies...
XD and MS are irrelevant ever since the XS-1270 cassette achieved a 10 tooth cog on an HG driver. Seriously why do any other freehub bodies exist anymore.
+1 Can someone please explain if Sram did anything special to achieve this? Or was this all just a bait and switch.
XD and MS are irrelevant ever since the XS-1270 cassette achieved a 10 tooth cog on an HG driver. Seriously why do any other freehub bodies...
XD and MS are irrelevant ever since the XS-1270 cassette achieved a 10 tooth cog on an HG driver. Seriously why do any other freehub bodies exist anymore.
XD and MS are irrelevant ever since the XS-1270 cassette achieved a 10 tooth cog on an HG driver. Seriously why do any other freehub bodies...
XD and MS are irrelevant ever since the XS-1270 cassette achieved a 10 tooth cog on an HG driver. Seriously why do any other freehub bodies exist anymore.
Zink Zader, dual 27.5, kinda funny geo. They're saying large is for 6'+ only, yet has a 476mm reach and 429mm CS
Zink Zader, dual 27.5, kinda funny geo. They're saying large is for 6'+ only, yet has a 476mm reach and 429mm CS
Large Geo looks absolutely perfect for somebody. Who’s 6 feet tall again this isn’t for somebody who wants to ride blue flow trails. It’s a purpose build jump bike so the shorter reach in short change stays are probably perfect one in the air.
Thanks! Apparently superboost was to accommodate the chainline of the dual chain solution. My best guess was that RMU wanted to make a bike, probably didn't...
Thanks! Apparently superboost was to accommodate the chainline of the dual chain solution. My best guess was that RMU wanted to make a bike, probably didn't know how to, so they bought a full suspension solution from DW. I'm not going to pretend I know that much about suspension kinematics and such so I won't comment on the solution itself. Now...of the bike brands that ran superboost : Pivot(doing well, still on 157), Evil(back to 148 boost for most bikes), Knolly (basically chap 11 bankruptcy), Devinci (mostly back to 148 boost except the Chainsaw), WAO doesn't make bikes anymore (the Arrival was 157 sb), Alchemy(looks to be dead). There's bound to be brands I missed here, but judging by how things are going...is it fair to say superboost was not a good move?
I think Salsa was also superboost and has gone back to 148.
For anyone who's curious what Weagle says about the Nighttrain suspension layout but doesn't want to scroll through IG comments, answering someone who asked about the...
For anyone who's curious what Weagle says about the Nighttrain suspension layout but doesn't want to scroll through IG comments, answering someone who asked about the design intent behind the bike:
"Initially trying to gain a bit more mid corner traction on race bikes but as I hated [typo?] on the idea more and more I began to appreciate that it solves a lot of other issues. Definitely not an immediately intuitive benefit for me, it grew on me. In the end it turns out that by the numbers and by seat of the pants human pedaling a bike, this is the most efficient drivetrain layout to get to a mid-pivot layout. Alternatives are more draggy, have more derailleur impact on the suspension and you can notice them riding. This thing is transparent to me. Can't feel it, can't hear it. Just makes traction and goes. I'm pretty stoked on it but I really can't wait to hear other people's take on it after they ride it and form their own opinions."
My two cents is that there is no way on earth this bike has 30mm of chainstay growth at sag. For instance, the Forbidden Supernought (a high pivot DH bike) has 21-23mm chainstay growth at 30-35% sag, and this is a "mid-pivot" 170mm bike.
Does the chainstay kick out though? Like the chainstay has this weird link to the idler right? Does that link push the chianstay out to affect how the rear flex stay flexes and thus creates more growth? Like is it a reverse flex stay? Where instead of flexing open, the rear triangle flexes closed? Meaning the angle at the dropout gets more acute? IDK, I don't really understand it. And the photos on the website are terrible, you can barely see the thing. Look at this cool photo of a bush with our magical suspension hiding in the background while we talk about the brake mount thats 100% not even pictured.
Maybe the chainstay flexes closed, and then open? If that idler link kicks out faster than the rocker link kicks up? IDK I'd poke at it in cad but the godawful photos...I don't even want to try. Also not a huge fan of DW bikes to begin with so... skeptical AF.
XD and MS are irrelevant ever since the XS-1270 cassette achieved a 10 tooth cog on an HG driver. Seriously why do any other freehub bodies...
XD and MS are irrelevant ever since the XS-1270 cassette achieved a 10 tooth cog on an HG driver. Seriously why do any other freehub bodies exist anymore.
+1 Can someone please explain if Sram did anything special to achieve this? Or was this all just a bait and switch.
To add to the other answers, the change relative to previous cassettes is that the sprockets were shifted outboard so that (I believe) the smallest one sits off the driver. This is also the reason for the loss of cross-compatibility (without modification, anyway) with original Eagle.
For anyone who's curious what Weagle says about the Nighttrain suspension layout but doesn't want to scroll through IG comments, answering someone who asked about the...
For anyone who's curious what Weagle says about the Nighttrain suspension layout but doesn't want to scroll through IG comments, answering someone who asked about the design intent behind the bike:
"Initially trying to gain a bit more mid corner traction on race bikes but as I hated [typo?] on the idea more and more I began to appreciate that it solves a lot of other issues. Definitely not an immediately intuitive benefit for me, it grew on me. In the end it turns out that by the numbers and by seat of the pants human pedaling a bike, this is the most efficient drivetrain layout to get to a mid-pivot layout. Alternatives are more draggy, have more derailleur impact on the suspension and you can notice them riding. This thing is transparent to me. Can't feel it, can't hear it. Just makes traction and goes. I'm pretty stoked on it but I really can't wait to hear other people's take on it after they ride it and form their own opinions."
My two cents is that there is no way on earth this bike has 30mm of chainstay growth at sag. For instance, the Forbidden Supernought (a high pivot DH bike) has 21-23mm chainstay growth at 30-35% sag, and this is a "mid-pivot" 170mm bike.
I’m a skeptic too. I can’t intuit a 6-bar instant center off the top of my head, but even just looking at how the upper rocker...
I’m a skeptic too. I can’t intuit a 6-bar instant center off the top of my head, but even just looking at how the upper rocker link will move there would have to be something seriously dramatic going on with the lower links to get 30mm out of the flex stay.
I did some napkin math to see what things look like. Assumptions are:
The linkage allows the rear axle to move roughly in the same plane as the seat tube
170mm travel in that plane
Effective seat tube = 77.5 degrees, so assume actual seat tube = 75 degrees
You end up with, sin (15 degrees)*170mm, which results in 4.4cm rearward movement. So if my shitty math gets to 4.4cm, I find it reasonable that the frame has 3cm rearward movement
For anyone who's curious what Weagle says about the Nighttrain suspension layout but doesn't want to scroll through IG comments, answering someone who asked about the...
For anyone who's curious what Weagle says about the Nighttrain suspension layout but doesn't want to scroll through IG comments, answering someone who asked about the design intent behind the bike:
"Initially trying to gain a bit more mid corner traction on race bikes but as I hated [typo?] on the idea more and more I began to appreciate that it solves a lot of other issues. Definitely not an immediately intuitive benefit for me, it grew on me. In the end it turns out that by the numbers and by seat of the pants human pedaling a bike, this is the most efficient drivetrain layout to get to a mid-pivot layout. Alternatives are more draggy, have more derailleur impact on the suspension and you can notice them riding. This thing is transparent to me. Can't feel it, can't hear it. Just makes traction and goes. I'm pretty stoked on it but I really can't wait to hear other people's take on it after they ride it and form their own opinions."
My two cents is that there is no way on earth this bike has 30mm of chainstay growth at sag. For instance, the Forbidden Supernought (a high pivot DH bike) has 21-23mm chainstay growth at 30-35% sag, and this is a "mid-pivot" 170mm bike.
I’m a skeptic too. I can’t intuit a 6-bar instant center off the top of my head, but even just looking at how the upper rocker...
I’m a skeptic too. I can’t intuit a 6-bar instant center off the top of my head, but even just looking at how the upper rocker link will move there would have to be something seriously dramatic going on with the lower links to get 30mm out of the flex stay.
I did some napkin math to see what things look like. Assumptions are: The linkage allows the rear axle to move roughly in the same plane as...
I did some napkin math to see what things look like. Assumptions are:
The linkage allows the rear axle to move roughly in the same plane as the seat tube
170mm travel in that plane
Effective seat tube = 77.5 degrees, so assume actual seat tube = 75 degrees
You end up with, sin (15 degrees)*170mm, which results in 4.4cm rearward movement. So if my shitty math gets to 4.4cm, I find it reasonable that the frame has 3cm rearward movement
Yes, I agree with your math.
What I'm saying is that 30mm of rearward movement at the sag point seems like way too much. For instance, if there was 44mm of total rearward movement (which is a ton for any 170mm bike), and for simplicity sake the axle path was a straight line sloping back, that would still only be 13.2mm of rearward movement (aka chainstay growth) at the sag point.
As I mentioned before, the RMU has co-rotating links at the BB (thus Orion) vs. counter-rotating links at the BB in the case of a DW6 bike. I'd imagine co-rotating should pull everything a bit more forwards through the travel as there's generally less "kick-out". The height of everything can play a role, if the chainstay has to rotate back and up. The bike can also have most of the rearward axle travel up to the sag point so making things a bit more hidden.
I agree it's a bit weird intuitively, though I guess it's not impossible. I don't see a reason they would claim something which is somewhat easy to verify if it's not true.
I do hope the RMU Nighttrain comes to Europe because I tried ordering one, as it ticks all the boxes for me even though it has some downsides, and the $2.5k frame came out to $5.7k with the taxes, duties and delivery included.
I guess it's building space for a more capable, 120mm Blur? Other than that, bit disappointed...
Why the dissapointment? Without knowing exactly what the bike is, other than hearing info and seeing pics. The ethos/idea of the bike is probably the same? A small travel, super fun and efficient bike - Probably more efficient with this new suspension setup, as well as lighter - But probably also more capable than the previous version.
I am stoked to see it, and thinking it could probably be the perfect bike to do it all for me.
Why the dissapointment? Without knowing exactly what the bike is, other than hearing info and seeing pics. The ethos/idea of the bike is probably the same...
Why the dissapointment? Without knowing exactly what the bike is, other than hearing info and seeing pics. The ethos/idea of the bike is probably the same? A small travel, super fun and efficient bike - Probably more efficient with this new suspension setup, as well as lighter - But probably also more capable than the previous version.
I am stoked to see it, and thinking it could probably be the perfect bike to do it all for me.
is the megatower disappearing - can't remember if that was a rumour or not.
With the hightower in its current guise, Rodrigo's thought makes sense, a lineup of 3 full suss 29ers, with differing intents and indeed suspension layouts.
Don't understand the aligning with 5010 comment? thats pretty much always been the case. The earlier ones were far more XC than currently, but seemed to align with the equivilent age Tallboy. ONly when the model releases didn't come at the same time did you get one being vastly different to the other.
So the new hightower is the big mountain 29er now. Little need for the mega when most of the market wants either a motor (bullit) or a chairlift (v10) for the riding that it justifies.
Why the dissapointment? Without knowing exactly what the bike is, other than hearing info and seeing pics. The ethos/idea of the bike is probably the same...
Why the dissapointment? Without knowing exactly what the bike is, other than hearing info and seeing pics. The ethos/idea of the bike is probably the same? A small travel, super fun and efficient bike - Probably more efficient with this new suspension setup, as well as lighter - But probably also more capable than the previous version.
I am stoked to see it, and thinking it could probably be the perfect bike to do it all for me.
I had a 5010 a few years ago and it was a blast. Really showed me that short travel VPP is really to my liking... I suppose I just wanted a lighter Tallboy, yes, but with those 120mm and VPP.
30 mm of chainstay (BB to rear axle) growth or 30 mm of rearward axle path?
I would assume they are considering those the same thing..
On PB in kaz’s randoms, we have confirmation of the “brilliant” new spider aluminum analog in china retail only.
Very very intriguing business play by intense
Did they restructure and bring in serious market analytics?
Also: nice work Jeff and prosice looks stellar
my 2 cents after spending some time on the bike is that I really want to spend more time on the bike. A couple anecdotes here:
I was surprised at how well it pedalled and the lack of heft that I was expecting after looking at it.
After giving it back for a month I had to film on it with no time to get familiar again. First trail was a rapid North Van classic that I have ridden a bunch and I was immediately sending it. It was extremely poppy while still being planted, able to pull for all of the doubles and let it do it's thing in the rough stuff.
https://youtu.be/8I53wIUXaFo?si=NpwyQJ-KB3auebsP&t=13 at 0:13 seconds in the launch video I was hucking a nice double to flat and barely feeling a thing, coming in way too fast to the next unsupported corner and every take I was able to find the traction needed to carry my momentum into and out of the corner, always as a pleasant surprise.
I am waiting for my own production version of the bike to arrive and then I'll be doing a longer video on it, but I'm really just excited to get more time on it. It's an intriguing ride and I don't think I really found the limits yet.
Zink Zader, dual 27.5, kinda funny geo. They're saying large is for 6'+ only, yet has a 476mm reach and 429mm CS
I think you meant “kind of FUN geometry”.
As a person who gets more than 100 bike park days a year, this is way more in line with how parkrats of all ages enjoy riding… ymmv
I’m a skeptic too. I can’t intuit a 6-bar instant center off the top of my head, but even just looking at how the upper rocker link will move there would have to be something seriously dramatic going on with the lower links to get 30mm out of the flex stay.
A friend of mine got a bit of an extended test on the Zink trail bike and loved it.. Maybe not a bike for me, but I'm thinking my son would be all over it. Different strokes for different folks...
fully deets on Zink Zader - https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/zink-bikes-introduces-zader…
+1
Can someone please explain if Sram did anything special to achieve this?
Or was this all just a bait and switch.
I believe the lock ring flange actually sits "in" the lower cluster and behind the 10T and/or 12T cog. Jump to ~2:08.
It's a Transmission only cassette - will only work with a full mount derailleur, not a hanger.
Large Geo looks absolutely perfect for somebody. Who’s 6 feet tall again this isn’t for somebody who wants to ride blue flow trails. It’s a purpose build jump bike so the shorter reach in short change stays are probably perfect one in the air.
I think Salsa was also superboost and has gone back to 148.
Does the chainstay kick out though? Like the chainstay has this weird link to the idler right? Does that link push the chianstay out to affect how the rear flex stay flexes and thus creates more growth? Like is it a reverse flex stay? Where instead of flexing open, the rear triangle flexes closed? Meaning the angle at the dropout gets more acute? IDK, I don't really understand it. And the photos on the website are terrible, you can barely see the thing. Look at this cool photo of a bush with our magical suspension hiding in the background while we talk about the brake mount thats 100% not even pictured.
Maybe the chainstay flexes closed, and then open? If that idler link kicks out faster than the rocker link kicks up? IDK I'd poke at it in cad but the godawful photos...I don't even want to try. Also not a huge fan of DW bikes to begin with so... skeptical AF.
This looks like a sick bike for someone who is super sendy and very talented.
To add to the other answers, the change relative to previous cassettes is that the sprockets were shifted outboard so that (I believe) the smallest one sits off the driver. This is also the reason for the loss of cross-compatibility (without modification, anyway) with original Eagle.
I did some napkin math to see what things look like. Assumptions are:
You end up with, sin (15 degrees)*170mm, which results in 4.4cm rearward movement. So if my shitty math gets to 4.4cm, I find it reasonable that the frame has 3cm rearward movement
Yes, I agree with your math.
What I'm saying is that 30mm of rearward movement at the sag point seems like way too much. For instance, if there was 44mm of total rearward movement (which is a ton for any 170mm bike), and for simplicity sake the axle path was a straight line sloping back, that would still only be 13.2mm of rearward movement (aka chainstay growth) at the sag point.
New SC Tallboy dropping May 19. 4bar, more travel, lighter. Seems like to align with 5010.
As I mentioned before, the RMU has co-rotating links at the BB (thus Orion) vs. counter-rotating links at the BB in the case of a DW6 bike. I'd imagine co-rotating should pull everything a bit more forwards through the travel as there's generally less "kick-out". The height of everything can play a role, if the chainstay has to rotate back and up. The bike can also have most of the rearward axle travel up to the sag point so making things a bit more hidden.
I agree it's a bit weird intuitively, though I guess it's not impossible. I don't see a reason they would claim something which is somewhat easy to verify if it's not true.
I do hope the RMU Nighttrain comes to Europe because I tried ordering one, as it ticks all the boxes for me even though it has some downsides, and the $2.5k frame came out to $5.7k with the taxes, duties and delivery included.
I guess it's building space for a more capable, 120mm Blur? Other than that, bit disappointed...
Why the dissapointment? Without knowing exactly what the bike is, other than hearing info and seeing pics. The ethos/idea of the bike is probably the same? A small travel, super fun and efficient bike - Probably more efficient with this new suspension setup, as well as lighter - But probably also more capable than the previous version.
I am stoked to see it, and thinking it could probably be the perfect bike to do it all for me.
is the megatower disappearing - can't remember if that was a rumour or not.
With the hightower in its current guise, Rodrigo's thought makes sense, a lineup of 3 full suss 29ers, with differing intents and indeed suspension layouts.
Don't understand the aligning with 5010 comment? thats pretty much always been the case. The earlier ones were far more XC than currently, but seemed to align with the equivilent age Tallboy. ONly when the model releases didn't come at the same time did you get one being vastly different to the other.
There's a lot of chatter about the Megatower being killed off, but the reports are also about it staying. I'd say it's not unlikely.
With the way bikes grow...
New tallboy (rumoured) is pretty much the OG hightower from 9 years ago.
https://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/Bikes,3/Santa-Cruz/Hightower-CC-X01,18516
140/135mm, 28lbs, 67hta, Pike/34
So the new hightower is the big mountain 29er now. Little need for the mega when most of the market wants either a motor (bullit) or a chairlift (v10) for the riding that it justifies.
it's weird that they'd discontinue the Mega but keep the Nomad though. Surely they sell more Megas.
I had a 5010 a few years ago and it was a blast. Really showed me that short travel VPP is really to my liking... I suppose I just wanted a lighter Tallboy, yes, but with those 120mm and VPP.
Over here I see more Nomads than Megas.
I tried the new Nomad and it feels great, but if there was an equivalent Megatower 3 I‘d pick/buy the Mega without hesitation…
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