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Even a simple pad change is so much better not having to unbolt the caliper or take the wheel out.
After using MT7s, Hope V4 & Saint. The lack of toploading pads was the only disappointment i found with Tektro.
I never care about top loading or whatever
Everytime I change pads is a chance of give the brakes a clean, possibly a bleed, and then installing the pads again
When I had the mt7 I was using the bridged pads from Trickstuff, done plenty of park days where I finished the and it took 5 min in the parking lot to get everything cleaned, replaced and aligned
I would t chuck pads in without taking the wheel out or caliper out
The bridged MT7 pads sound interesting. Did you notice any pros/cons with them?
Much better imo, sort of self adjusting when one piston become lazy, they worked great, definitely my favorite pads trickstuff power
Is anyone having issues with their Mavens needing constant bleeding? I'm on Maven Ultimate A1's and it's driving me insane. About 1 month after a full bleed and perfect performance, they're back to feeling way off - they're sucking in air somehow. It's not a piston massage thing, there's no oil leaking out anywhere, my brake fluid is fresh... Every time I bleed them : more air. I'm starting to think my set are faulty which would be a shame since they're my favourite brake.
I don't think it's a bleed technique thing (I do the same process on my Codes which are perfect all year) but for reference : connect up both syringes, pull slight vacuum as I connect them to pull up any air gap in the connector, then flush fresh fluid into the system from caliper to lever, then close off caliper, pull lever in and vaccum syringe, compress syringe and let go of lever, repeat until bubbles stop.
Any opinions would be greatly appreciated
Have you checked the torque on the hose nut? I've had that be the cause of that behavior on various brakes in the past. Refer to the "Dumb Bike Problems" thread... it's more than you think, but you should use a torque wrench because it is possible to crack the nut or hose olive if you go too far.
Yeah I would start looking at the connections at MC if there's something wrong, I for one have managed to install olive or two crooked.
have you checked torque on the banjo? There have been some comments similar to yours almost exactly and a few have found the cause to be loose banjo
It is really hard to get all of the air out of the maxima mineral oil with how thick it is. If you airate the mineral oil when you pull it into the syringe, you're almost guaranteed to have micro bubbles in it that are impossible to deal with. I am really deliberate about letting the syringes sit for 30 minute after filling them to let the air fully come out of the fluid. Also advisable to lubricate the plungers on your bleed syringes before you start so you don't have to yank them super fast to break the stiction when filling the syringes up.
For this reason, I do have a better success rate bleeding maven's with a bleed cup vs two syringes. Between the risk of pulling too much vacuum and pulling air past the syringe o-rings and air bubbles trapped in the mineral oil, the bleed cup is way easier. I'm about 80% successful in bleeding maven brakes on a 1 and done method. 1/5 times, I need to do at least a secondary lever bleed to get some air bubbles that come out on the first ride, or after the brakes have sat over night.
My red splatter Mavens were like this, every 3 months on the dot. I replaced pretty much every part but the pistons and seals and nothing helped. Changed to the teal splatter and they've been flawless for going on 9+ months. I have no explanation or helpful input, just commiserating
What helped me in the same situation is to overtighten the caliper bolts way past their stated torque setting.
Also, check if the hoses are tightly screwed in.
(Based on my experience with A1 Red splatter and A1 regular ultimate)
Which bleed cup fits?
Ezmtb like this one
https://a.aliexpress.com/_EGq0nVy
Pinner Machine Shop also makes an adapter for the Shimano bleed cup to fit on SRAM mineral oil brakes. Once you have the adapter, you can use the fancy billet aluminum Pinner bleed cup or a standard white plastic Shimano cup.
The adapter is only $13 USD. Worth it's weight in gold: https://pinnermachineshop.com/en-us/products/bleed-cup-adapter?variant=41552493150305
I agree with others about the efficacy of the lever bleed method to get any tricky air bubbles out of a Maven bleed, especially when they emerge over the course of a ride or two after a bleed. I've found a lot of luck doing the overnight lever ziptie/bleed cup method as a way to get any final air bubbles out. And I agree that there's something going on with the SRAM bleed kit, the Maven architecture, or Maxima's mineral oil that makes it really hard to get a consistent air-free bleed. Maybe it's all three.
The SRAM Maven/Motive/DB lever fitting is M4 threads. The Shimano bleed cup thread is M5. I use the Park Tool fitting adapter (part 2600A, $6 each) included in their mineral bleed kit to go between the two.
I also use the M5 adapter w/ the bleed cup for Shimano brakes because the plastic bleed cup threads wear out really fast when you are bleeding multiple brakes per day.
I spent about 2 1/2 hours installing 1 maven caliper/lever and bleeding the other on a DH bike because I really wanted to get it right the first time. Will see what they say when they ride it. The lever had to be replaced because it seems like someone installed the olive backwards, I couldn't get the hose out of the lever even with pliers/twisting and the compression nut had been overtightened and turned oval.
Real interesting review on the Die Bremses. I would just skip to the performance section of the video. Claims they've got a lighter lever pull than Dominions with more power than Mavens and Hope V4s.
Can confirm, Felix is a mega rad dude.
This is a great tip! Park calls it the "Park Tool 2600A – Mineral Oil adaptor for Campagnolo" but apparently it works for SRAM DB8 and Maven, Trick Stuff, and Campagnolo mineral oil brake systems.
Link for just this adapter: https://www.ultrabikeworks.com/product/park-tool-2600a-mineral-oil-adaptor-for-campagnolo/
Link to the Park Tool site with the mineral oil upgrade kit that includes this adapter: https://www.parktool.com/en-us/product/hydraulic-brake-bleed-kit-upgrade-set-bk-uk
After watching a couple of his reviews I found the biggest caveat to be that we just don't weigh the same. Iirc Dale weighs 130-ish pounds. What works for his weight and his type of riding is not likely to translate over to the viewer. I do believe he is very transparent on what he thinks, while also being a very solid rider - but some of the info just doesn't apply to some of us, like me, who is a lot heavier.
Stronger brake is stronger brake regardless of who is riding it, just like lighter lever action is lighter no matter who pulls the lever. They are brakes attributes, not riders attributes.
Yes and no. The amount of brake torque applied to stop a rider from a given speed to a desired speed is not the same for different weights. We are going to massively simplify here and assume everyone rides the same on the same tires, rotors, pads etc..
In the graph below the 3 horizontal lines are a gross simplification representation of the torque needed to slow a rider of that weight down. The 3 lines represent 3 styles of brakes - the black line needs a very heavy initial pull but ramps extremely quick ; the red line needs somewhat firm pull that ramps fast at start but slows towards the end, and the green line which requires very little force to get moving but ramps slowly. For each rider which brake has the "lightest" lever feel is going to be dictated by how much they need to slow down and how much they weigh (among other conditions like tire/dirt/etc) As you can see, the lightweight rider is going to feel the green brake is the best for this scenario as it requires the lightest pull for the force they need. Think the black as a maven. Dale is not going to like it since it requires a massive pull for what he needs. I think it's pretty damn good since it's the lightest for what I need. Again, this is a very gross simplification.
Do you have any real measurements to back up your graph? Without actual data the graph is just theory.
If you are shopping for DH brakes the tester needs to be able to replicate similar conditions. Brake fade is an entirely different thing for someone 200+lbs vs. a 130lb rider. Some things transfer, some don’t.
Not sure what "actual data" is required but...let's use maven (noted red) and motive (noted green), both sram brakes, as an example. At the start of the stroke, the motives have a lighter pull to start biting, so there's a data point for that (bottom left green).The mavens are going to take a bit more to get going, so bottom right red point notes that. At an arbitrary high force, the mavens will generate more braking force than the motives - you can base that either on many of whom have rode both, or the simple fact that motives have a much lower leverage ratio compared to the mavens. The 2 braking formulas f(x) maven & g(x) motive must both be consecutive. They could be close to simple straight lines if there were no leverage links, but most brakes today incorp some kind of changing leverage ratio. If there exists p that f(p) < g(p) & q that f(q) > g(q), then there must be r which f(r) = g(r). So if you are a person who often does not need a braking torque more powerful than x = f(r) = g(r), then the motives are a better brake for you. If you are a person who often needs braking torque more powerful than x, then you will be leaning towards the mavens. Why do heavy people need more braking force to slow down in the same amount of time for a given velocity? ft=mv, m being the mass, and v being velocity - if m is being increased then f must be as well for the same t(ime).
Brake fade is pad and rotor dependent, both of those are interchangable, no one is boiling braking fluid in MTB, mineral or DOT.
Brake fade is also caliper dependant, a more closed off caliper will make cooling the pads harder than a more open caliper design.
As for lever pull, Die Bremse and Dominions, as per this topic Dominions have one of the lighter lever pulls before the pads contact, but apparently require quite a lot of finger force (relative to other brakes) to generate adequate braking force.
This just confirms to me a light lever pull really should NOT be a metric that we judge brakes on. It's the definition of a parking lot test issue. You brake with a considerable force in your finger, a much higher force than what is needed to start piston movement where this light lever pull comes into action.
The new Hope Evo brakes also use the same size threading as Sram Mineral Oil brakes. So you could order a Hope bleed cup and the Evo adapter if you wanted to bleed Mavens with it.
I know because I did the opposite and used a new Sram mineral oil syringe as an improvised bleed cup for my GR4’s.
My only concern would be fluid compatibility of bleed kit seals and o-rings. I used a well-cleaned SRAM DOT fluid syringe on a mineral oil brake, and the o-ring at the bleed fitting swelled and failed. In contrast. A Reverb syringe with the same M5 thread but a red o-ring did fine with mineral oil.
I’m not sure if you would have similar issues using a mineral oil bleed kit with DOT fluid.
For the same pad, same brakes, same rotors, same downhill, same tire/dirt/bike/you name it etc, a 200lb rider will fade a given brake faster than a 130lb rider, this is just physics. Yes they are interchangeable, no that does not make any difference whatsoever in the statement made by 63expert. This has nothing to do with the fluids boiling or not.
The light pull thing isn't a non-issue, it's just not an issue for everyone.
Aside from avoiding a lot of arm pump with light pull levers, i also much prefer the feel and control, so i'd prefer to know what brakes are heavy to pull and what ones are light. Is that okay with you?
Post a reply to: Nerding out on Brakes shall we? Not another tech deraliment