Wow adjustable seat tube angle Pivot will really do anything except admit the industry transition to Super Boost failed.
I'd bet money their next bike comes with interchangeable dropouts that lets them sell bikes with SB157, but the consumer can change to 148 like everyone wants. Pivot has got to be one of the most change-resistant bike companies I can think of.
Wow adjustable seat tube angle Pivot will really do anything except admit the industry transition to Super Boost failed.
It’s honestly kind of a shame it failed. It builds a better wheel for long travel 29 applications and it’s a standard that already existed before boost. It’s just a DH hub.
Let’s all collectively blame Trek. Boost 148 was their idea.
It’s honestly kind of a shame it failed. It builds a better wheel for long travel 29 applications and it’s a standard that already existed before...
It’s honestly kind of a shame it failed. It builds a better wheel for long travel 29 applications and it’s a standard that already existed before boost. It’s just a DH hub.
Let’s all collectively blame Trek. Boost 148 was their idea.
Better in engineering terms != better in practical terms. There's a lot of people out there with heel rub on 148 frames. I also don't really like the idea of my $400 electronic derailleur being any further outboard than it already is. Sure, 157 is better on paper, but in the real world, 148 works fine for everyone from beginners all the way up to world cup pros.
It’s honestly kind of a shame it failed. It builds a better wheel for long travel 29 applications and it’s a standard that already existed before...
It’s honestly kind of a shame it failed. It builds a better wheel for long travel 29 applications and it’s a standard that already existed before boost. It’s just a DH hub.
Let’s all collectively blame Trek. Boost 148 was their idea.
Better in engineering terms != better in practical terms. There's a lot of people out there with heel rub on 148 frames. I also don't really...
Better in engineering terms != better in practical terms. There's a lot of people out there with heel rub on 148 frames. I also don't really like the idea of my $400 electronic derailleur being any further outboard than it already is. Sure, 157 is better on paper, but in the real world, 148 works fine for everyone from beginners all the way up to world cup pros.
The derailleur clearance factor is real, but I don’t think the other points really are.
The people I know who get a ton of heel rub have been getting heel rub since 135mm bikes. I think it’s a riding posture thing more than a frame geo thing.
And regarding it being “good enough for pros”, pros get free wheels. I know a few bigger/faster guys who’ve given up on full 29” bikes with 148 spacing. They went through wheels too fast. The driveside bracing angle on a 29” wheel with most 148 hubs is pretty bad. Small changes like 1-2mm on flange spacing can have a huge effect on spoke forces.
I'm overdue to write that Telum review, but in short it's phenomenal. If the damper is anywhere near as good as the shock, it will be unreal. I couldn't believe how much better my fork felt with the MRP Lift damper, so I'm totally down for a Vorsprung fork damper.
It’s honestly kind of a shame it failed. It builds a better wheel for long travel 29 applications and it’s a standard that already existed before...
It’s honestly kind of a shame it failed. It builds a better wheel for long travel 29 applications and it’s a standard that already existed before boost. It’s just a DH hub.
Let’s all collectively blame Trek. Boost 148 was their idea.
Better in engineering terms != better in practical terms. There's a lot of people out there with heel rub on 148 frames. I also don't really...
Better in engineering terms != better in practical terms. There's a lot of people out there with heel rub on 148 frames. I also don't really like the idea of my $400 electronic derailleur being any further outboard than it already is. Sure, 157 is better on paper, but in the real world, 148 works fine for everyone from beginners all the way up to world cup pros.
The derailleur clearance factor is real, but I don’t think the other points really are.The people I know who get a ton of heel rub have...
The derailleur clearance factor is real, but I don’t think the other points really are.
The people I know who get a ton of heel rub have been getting heel rub since 135mm bikes. I think it’s a riding posture thing more than a frame geo thing.
And regarding it being “good enough for pros”, pros get free wheels. I know a few bigger/faster guys who’ve given up on full 29” bikes with 148 spacing. They went through wheels too fast. The driveside bracing angle on a 29” wheel with most 148 hubs is pretty bad. Small changes like 1-2mm on flange spacing can have a huge effect on spoke forces.
Did those people who have given up on 148 bikes consider asymetric rims? Rims with more bracing like Flow EX3s? Carbon rims? Cushcore? Checking their spoke tension from time to time? I find it really hard to believe there's a weight limit for 148 spacing lol.
looks like trek is working on new supercal or top fuel
looks like trek is working on new supercal or top fuel
I think it’s interesting to witness the rate of convergence in XC bikes nowadays. Most models from most manufacturers seem to be getting conceptually closer and closer to the design of the 2021 Specialized Epic Evo 7 with each iteration or update.
There's only so many ways to skin a cat quickly and efficiently. A faux bar is stiff, stable, light (least pivots, bearings and bolts add weight) and probably has a predictable, calm suspension behaviour (essentially a Horst link with a flex pivot or a linkage driven single pivot).
At the end of the day suspension performance by itself is not the driving factor for an xc bike. Efficiency and weight are the driving factors.
Interesting to see that on both the new Trek XC bikes, they don't have crazy negative stems. One appears to have a two piece setup whereas the other is a one piece RSL edition.
Few speculations:New Sram stuff: there is currently a countdown at this page https://www.sram.com/en/sram/mountain/campaigns/dh for February 23rd-24th, that is most likely Transmission AXS DH and new Boxxer...
Few speculations:
New Sram stuff: there is currently a countdown at this page https://www.sram.com/en/sram/mountain/campaigns/dh for February 23rd-24th, that is most likely Transmission AXS DH and new Boxxer E1 with linear XL air spring add-on and Charger 3.2 being launched. There is a possibility new Zeb B1 get launched at the same time they share the Linear XL air spring add-on. New Lyrik would most likely be only updated to charger 3.2 so could be soft launched at later date (possibly switch from D2 to D3 in Sram product nomenclature)
I hope the new Pike D1 doesn't only get the updated 3.2 charger but also some chassis tweaking so it can compete with the 36SL on weight. There might be some brand waiting for those launch to also launch new bikes but the three brand I am interested don't normally spec Rockshok forks.
Yeti Six-Finity regular bikes: checking yeti website the SB120, SB140 and SB160 all got 2026 build kit with 2026 fox shock and forks and a XT di2 build kit. The SB165 MX and the full 27.5 SB135 don't have those updated build kits. My hypothesis is the SB135 get the axe and the SB165 is the first to get the Six-finity platform this year with the full 29er SB160/140/120 launched later.
Santa Cruz Tallboy gen6 : currently SC lineup is full Fox spec shock & fork but SC did some full rockshox or mixed spec in the past so there is a possibility the new Tallboy is waiting the launch of the new Pike. If they stay with a full fox spec then the current 36SL is the perfect spec for that bike. If the rumor that the Tallboy goes horst link is true, then I have no interest at all in that bike. Would rather go for the upcoming Forbidden new trail bike than a horst link Tallboy.
Ibis light trail bike aka Ripley SL, a few poster on MTBR have floated the date of Feb 17th so we should know very soon but consensus seems to be a DW-Link bike, 130/120ish DW-Link 66deg HA and 5lbs frame weight so most likely spec with a 34SL. More in the lineage of the Rocky Element type of stout XC bike.
You're thinking the 3.2 will be limited to the Boxxer for now?
It's a Pivot, so construction and QC is going to be immaculate and they have pretty dialed kinematics for efficient, aggressive bikes. That Bosch motor and...
It's a Pivot, so construction and QC is going to be immaculate and they have pretty dialed kinematics for efficient, aggressive bikes. That Bosch motor and the interface is pretty great too, feels pretty good and are reliable. Other than that it's an ebike with a special seat tube and seat post shim. Big numbers make ebikes happy, so the 800 wh battery, 100 nm torque, and 9000+ price tag are all selling points.
It's just nice to see them finally making a slow creep towards a more modern f/r ratio, though a 460+mm stay option in large and xl sizes would have been welcome. The 450mm is a step in the right direction for the size large at least, xl is still a bit whack.
If only that sweet purple paint job wasn't an extra $1000
That's fair, but the GX axs build is 6900 for the allied and the current Tallboy is 7149 for almost the same build... Unless the 4 bar Tallboy comes with a price drop why on earth would I get it over the allied? Or over a Norco Fluid or transition smuggler? Just going the long way around to talk trash on the new tallboy
SC has to do or say something to justify the change from VPP to Horst. There is too much competition in that space to just drop the bike and call it a day. Talk about the specific changes in kinematics, how they've adjusted them from the last Gen, why they did, and how they expect it to make your ride experience better, otherwise the bike is going to be a flop.
In the PB interview with Brage, it sounds like he's testing some prototypes, but could have something announced/released in the summer. He also talks about how he likes a more progressive/poppy bike, not something stuck to the ground so super interested in what they come up with!
In the PB interview with Brage, it sounds like he's testing some prototypes, but could have something announced/released in the summer. He also talks about how...
In the PB interview with Brage, it sounds like he's testing some prototypes, but could have something announced/released in the summer. He also talks about how he likes a more progressive/poppy bike, not something stuck to the ground so super interested in what they come up with!
An updated shore could be cool, I've been thinking of getting the current one and making it a mixed wheel DH race bike for a bit now.
That's fair, but the GX axs build is 6900 for the allied and the current Tallboy is 7149 for almost the same build... Unless the 4...
That's fair, but the GX axs build is 6900 for the allied and the current Tallboy is 7149 for almost the same build... Unless the 4 bar Tallboy comes with a price drop why on earth would I get it over the allied? Or over a Norco Fluid or transition smuggler? Just going the long way around to talk trash on the new tallboy
SC has to do or say something to justify the change from VPP to Horst. There is too much competition in that space to just drop the bike and call it a day. Talk about the specific changes in kinematics, how they've adjusted them from the last Gen, why they did, and how they expect it to make your ride experience better, otherwise the bike is going to be a flop.
You would chose a horst tallboy over those bikes for the same reason you would currently chose a vpp tallboy over those bikes. Frame quality, ride feel and kinematics, frame stiffness/compliance tuning/feel, geo fit/dimensions, brand loyalty/identification, colors/industrial design, warranty support, LBS/retailer loyalty and support, etc.
I have owned countless VPP santacruz bikes and I also own a horst link bullit. I have owned many other brands horst link bikes: specialized, rocky mountain, transition, norco, orbea. Unsurprisingly, my bullit rides like a santacruz and has a few characteristics that other horst link bikes have that are nice. Based on my experience with the vala/bullit, I don't think it will be a hard sell to get people to try them and spoiler alert... I think people are going to enjoy santa cruz's take on the horst link platform. It won't hurt that it will be lighter, have better seat post insertion, better shock access and compatibility and potentially allow them to go down the rabbit hole deeper on size specific dimensions.
I have tried the other brands you mentioned just trying to not be another guy on a santa cruz... for various reasons, quality, support, ride feel and most importantly sizing and fit to my body type, I have ended up with an all SC lineup. I think a horst link tallboy will be better then the current generation tallboy. I do not think a dual link, vpp based design is a make/break for me in sub 150mm travel packages where pedaling efficiency is abundant with modern shock designs and kinematics knowledge. Having lower anti-squat, less pedal kickback is a great starting point for a 140mm travel platform.
In the PB interview with Brage, it sounds like he's testing some prototypes, but could have something announced/released in the summer. He also talks about how...
In the PB interview with Brage, it sounds like he's testing some prototypes, but could have something announced/released in the summer. He also talks about how he likes a more progressive/poppy bike, not something stuck to the ground so super interested in what they come up with!
Look at the age of the Shore. It's at the end of it's cycle, Norco killed the Range to replace it with the 170/160mm Sight, and the only bike that the public knows about that is bigger than the Sight is the probably-maybe to be released DH bike which rumour has it will be very expensive and very limited. Further, just last summer Norco partnered up with the bike park on Grouse mountain, which is a new lift-access bike park located within 40 minutes (or 4 hours, traffic depending) from Norco's headquarters in Port Coquitlam. The rental fleet is/was made up of shores, but as I said, that's at the end of it's cycle. Norco obviously puts some value into this partnership.
Anyway, this is all to say that I think Norco is going to release a new non-race-dh/freeride/park bike this spring. I suspect it will not be high pivot and will not really come in pedallable configurations.
In the PB interview with Brage, it sounds like he's testing some prototypes, but could have something announced/released in the summer. He also talks about how...
In the PB interview with Brage, it sounds like he's testing some prototypes, but could have something announced/released in the summer. He also talks about how he likes a more progressive/poppy bike, not something stuck to the ground so super interested in what they come up with!
In the PB interview with Brage, it sounds like he's testing some prototypes, but could have something announced/released in the summer. He also talks about how...
In the PB interview with Brage, it sounds like he's testing some prototypes, but could have something announced/released in the summer. He also talks about how he likes a more progressive/poppy bike, not something stuck to the ground so super interested in what they come up with!
Look at the age of the Shore. It's at the end of it's cycle, Norco killed the Range to replace it with the 170/160mm Sight, and...
Look at the age of the Shore. It's at the end of it's cycle, Norco killed the Range to replace it with the 170/160mm Sight, and the only bike that the public knows about that is bigger than the Sight is the probably-maybe to be released DH bike which rumour has it will be very expensive and very limited. Further, just last summer Norco partnered up with the bike park on Grouse mountain, which is a new lift-access bike park located within 40 minutes (or 4 hours, traffic depending) from Norco's headquarters in Port Coquitlam. The rental fleet is/was made up of shores, but as I said, that's at the end of it's cycle. Norco obviously puts some value into this partnership.
Anyway, this is all to say that I think Norco is going to release a new non-race-dh/freeride/park bike this spring. I suspect it will not be high pivot and will not really come in pedallable configurations.
This bike brings to mind an inexperience-based question: What is the appeal of a linked-driven single pivot (LDSP)? I have owned and ridden exactly one full-suspension bike, and it is a Horst link design.
I know that simplicity is a valuable thing in and of itself, but a linkage brings additional bearings and whatnot into play. I know that other designs separate braking and suspension forces to various degrees in a way that a LDSP design cannot. Given that LDSP bikes are still the preference for certain manufacturers in certain applications, though, I know that there must also be positive qualities that someview as outweighing the benefits of a Horst or what have you.
Are LDSP bikes poppier? More supple/sensitive? Do they create cool leverage curves or something that gives a bike a nice ride feel Can some suspension/braking cross-talk actually be beneficial in some instances? Is the axle path particularly nice? What's the pitch?
Not casting aspersions over here. Legitimate inquiry from a place of humility.
I'd bet money their next bike comes with interchangeable dropouts that lets them sell bikes with SB157, but the consumer can change to 148 like everyone wants. Pivot has got to be one of the most change-resistant bike companies I can think of.
Oh sick, the current Oneup grips are my favorite. I’ll definitely be giving these a try.
It’s honestly kind of a shame it failed. It builds a better wheel for long travel 29 applications and it’s a standard that already existed before boost. It’s just a DH hub.
Let’s all collectively blame Trek. Boost 148 was their idea.
Better in engineering terms != better in practical terms. There's a lot of people out there with heel rub on 148 frames. I also don't really like the idea of my $400 electronic derailleur being any further outboard than it already is. Sure, 157 is better on paper, but in the real world, 148 works fine for everyone from beginners all the way up to world cup pros.
The derailleur clearance factor is real, but I don’t think the other points really are.
The people I know who get a ton of heel rub have been getting heel rub since 135mm bikes. I think it’s a riding posture thing more than a frame geo thing.
And regarding it being “good enough for pros”, pros get free wheels. I know a few bigger/faster guys who’ve given up on full 29” bikes with 148 spacing. They went through wheels too fast. The driveside bracing angle on a 29” wheel with most 148 hubs is pretty bad. Small changes like 1-2mm on flange spacing can have a huge effect on spoke forces.
It's a badge engineered Norco Revolver
When you ask Copilot to ehnance...
I'm overdue to write that Telum review, but in short it's phenomenal. If the damper is anywhere near as good as the shock, it will be unreal. I couldn't believe how much better my fork felt with the MRP Lift damper, so I'm totally down for a Vorsprung fork damper.
Did those people who have given up on 148 bikes consider asymetric rims? Rims with more bracing like Flow EX3s? Carbon rims? Cushcore? Checking their spoke tension from time to time? I find it really hard to believe there's a weight limit for 148 spacing lol.
I think it’s interesting to witness the rate of convergence in XC bikes nowadays. Most models from most manufacturers seem to be getting conceptually closer and closer to the design of the 2021 Specialized Epic Evo 7 with each iteration or update.
The faux crab thing is real.
There's only so many ways to skin a cat quickly and efficiently. A faux bar is stiff, stable, light (least pivots, bearings and bolts add weight) and probably has a predictable, calm suspension behaviour (essentially a Horst link with a flex pivot or a linkage driven single pivot).
At the end of the day suspension performance by itself is not the driving factor for an xc bike. Efficiency and weight are the driving factors.
Interesting to see that on both the new Trek XC bikes, they don't have crazy negative stems. One appears to have a two piece setup whereas the other is a one piece RSL edition.
Rimpact just released the V2 TMD, no longer comes with multiple spring weight options. Looks very tidy.
https://www.rimpactmtb.com/product-page/rimpact-tmd?utm_campaign=16875801-69d2-417f-af32-b520d66fe554&utm_source=so&utm_medium=mail&cid=7ec9b372-170f-48c4-aef5-2202e92f2110
You're thinking the 3.2 will be limited to the Boxxer for now?
crossworx dash mk2
https://www.crossworx-cycles.com/en/shop/bikes-en/racing-en/dashmk2_en/
allied fitz 140mm trail bike
https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/allied-introduces-fitz-lightweight-140mm-trail-bike-built-big-days-and-bigger-descents
Would take this over a 4 bar tall boy every time.
If only that sweet purple paint job wasn't an extra $1000
It's just nice to see them finally making a slow creep towards a more modern f/r ratio, though a 460+mm stay option in large and xl sizes would have been welcome. The 450mm is a step in the right direction for the size large at least, xl is still a bit whack.
Looks like a fun bike..
That's fair, but the GX axs build is 6900 for the allied and the current Tallboy is 7149 for almost the same build... Unless the 4 bar Tallboy comes with a price drop why on earth would I get it over the allied? Or over a Norco Fluid or transition smuggler? Just going the long way around to talk trash on the new tallboy
SC has to do or say something to justify the change from VPP to Horst. There is too much competition in that space to just drop the bike and call it a day. Talk about the specific changes in kinematics, how they've adjusted them from the last Gen, why they did, and how they expect it to make your ride experience better, otherwise the bike is going to be a flop.
In the PB interview with Brage, it sounds like he's testing some prototypes, but could have something announced/released in the summer. He also talks about how he likes a more progressive/poppy bike, not something stuck to the ground so super interested in what they come up with!
My 2023 Optic is purple.
An updated shore could be cool, I've been thinking of getting the current one and making it a mixed wheel DH race bike for a bit now.
You would chose a horst tallboy over those bikes for the same reason you would currently chose a vpp tallboy over those bikes. Frame quality, ride feel and kinematics, frame stiffness/compliance tuning/feel, geo fit/dimensions, brand loyalty/identification, colors/industrial design, warranty support, LBS/retailer loyalty and support, etc.
I have owned countless VPP santacruz bikes and I also own a horst link bullit. I have owned many other brands horst link bikes: specialized, rocky mountain, transition, norco, orbea. Unsurprisingly, my bullit rides like a santacruz and has a few characteristics that other horst link bikes have that are nice. Based on my experience with the vala/bullit, I don't think it will be a hard sell to get people to try them and spoiler alert... I think people are going to enjoy santa cruz's take on the horst link platform. It won't hurt that it will be lighter, have better seat post insertion, better shock access and compatibility and potentially allow them to go down the rabbit hole deeper on size specific dimensions.
I have tried the other brands you mentioned just trying to not be another guy on a santa cruz... for various reasons, quality, support, ride feel and most importantly sizing and fit to my body type, I have ended up with an all SC lineup. I think a horst link tallboy will be better then the current generation tallboy. I do not think a dual link, vpp based design is a make/break for me in sub 150mm travel packages where pedaling efficiency is abundant with modern shock designs and kinematics knowledge. Having lower anti-squat, less pedal kickback is a great starting point for a 140mm travel platform.
Look at the age of the Shore. It's at the end of it's cycle, Norco killed the Range to replace it with the 170/160mm Sight, and the only bike that the public knows about that is bigger than the Sight is the probably-maybe to be released DH bike which rumour has it will be very expensive and very limited. Further, just last summer Norco partnered up with the bike park on Grouse mountain, which is a new lift-access bike park located within 40 minutes (or 4 hours, traffic depending) from Norco's headquarters in Port Coquitlam. The rental fleet is/was made up of shores, but as I said, that's at the end of it's cycle. Norco obviously puts some value into this partnership.
Anyway, this is all to say that I think Norco is going to release a new non-race-dh/freeride/park bike this spring. I suspect it will not be high pivot and will not really come in pedallable configurations.
You're almost certainly better off with a Range and a WRP link, or all sorts of mullet DH race bikes that exist without messing about with stuff.
Freeeeeeeride eeeeeeebike.
This bike brings to mind an inexperience-based question: What is the appeal of a linked-driven single pivot (LDSP)? I have owned and ridden exactly one full-suspension bike, and it is a Horst link design.
I know that simplicity is a valuable thing in and of itself, but a linkage brings additional bearings and whatnot into play. I know that other designs separate braking and suspension forces to various degrees in a way that a LDSP design cannot. Given that LDSP bikes are still the preference for certain manufacturers in certain applications, though, I know that there must also be positive qualities that someview as outweighing the benefits of a Horst or what have you.
Are LDSP bikes poppier? More supple/sensitive? Do they create cool leverage curves or something that gives a bike a nice ride feel Can some suspension/braking cross-talk actually be beneficial in some instances? Is the axle path particularly nice? What's the pitch?
Not casting aspersions over here. Legitimate inquiry from a place of humility.
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