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If you're not Ali/Amazon/ebay averse there are a number of options that fall under the 'good syringes, under $100' requirement. I've one from RiderAce for mineral oil brakes that's been perfectly fine in use that was maybe $30 or so when I got it. As with all bleed kits, the best thing you can do for em longevity wise is give them a clean after use. Flush with water then spray down with isopropyl and let em dry after.
The designer should be selecting an appropriate fixing size/tool size for the application. Good design should make it easy for the user to get it right and hard for them to get it wrong.
That makes no sense at all. There are 6mm hex bolts on my bike that range from 5nm to 20nm torque spec. By your logic either my shock would fall out or my front wheel axle would be crushed.
Torx> hex
Convert all my bikes over
BleedZone SRAM Maven Hydraulic Disc Brake Bleed Kit – BleedZone LLC
Found this as well, $53 CAD on Amazon.
Just because that is what is on your bike, does not mean it's well designed, some of these fixings/torque values are probably not the appropriate choice. In your example.the thread size is completely different between the two fixings though, so I would expect a different torque. Ideally this would be with a different tool size also.
There is a great book called The design of everyday things, by Don Norman that I would recommend reading on the subject.
Indeed.
As I said "I've never stripped the threads from a Magura master..." but this seems to be a pretty common occurrence. It strikes me that having the torque called out in the manual is often insufficient which is why said perhaps it would be helpful if they they offered some visual cues on the parts such as having "...the torque spec debossed on the clamp."
They've been making these brakes for 10 years now so if it were costing Magura too much in warranty replacements or bad press I assume they'd revert to their previous design where the carbotecture material was fortified with an aluminum clamp. With that said, the whole Shigura thing was originally devised by folk who'd stripped either the clamp or bleed threads from their Magura levers. I have Shiguras' on my bike so I'm grateful for this😁.
Always like a good book recommendo.
Agreed on this one, though having one tool to handle everything is also a good design choice from the user's perspective.
The thing is, even with a T25 bleed screw, you won't do much damage if you have an aluminium body and a steel screw. The problem lies in having a plastic screw and a plastic body and speccing a tightening torque that is easily achieved 'finger tight' by only tightening by twisting the round stem of the T25 torx wrench without using the perpendicular extension(s). Screwing plastic bolts in plastic threads is just not a common thing and I think that's a big part of why people are stripping those.
Best bleed syringes for holding vaccum?
Yes, reading torque specs is helpful, but I think that's a pretty high bar to expect for every one of the hundreds of bolts on a bike.
Deiter Rams is a pretty smart designer, and he said good design is honest, and it should make a product understandable and useful. Speccing a big tool interface with a low torque spec doesn't seem very honest or understandable, and stripping the threads of your master cylinder doesn't seem to make the product useful, either.
Another smart person, a park ranger who was teaching my group of friends about trail design and maintenance, told us to design trails for the way people are, not the way we want them to be.
I've been really impressed with the Bleed Zone stuff. I've got several of their stuff and it impressed me.
Not to mention that if a bike is high use, those bleed screw heads will be weakened by exposure to temperature change and uv radiation, and leading to failure and torques below spec.
Wait, wait, wait... did you suggest washing out brake syringes with water? This is the first time I've heard of that suggestion. Is that for mineral oil only, or for DOT fluid too? Can other people jump in here to confirm or deny?
If water works as a first step, and if it's kosher to mix water with the residual brake fluid during the cleaning process, it would be great news for me. I've always done isopropyl and nothing else, but it's always felt like a quick way to burn through Isopropyl and because I'm not blasting whole bottles worth of isopropyl through the syringe I can never quite sure that I got all the old brake fluid out.
I'm a huge fan of DOET by Dan Norman, and tell people about it all the time. I think I read that whole book in two days. I hurt my neck from nodding along in agreement as I was reading.
Yes to both. I rinse with water first, follow up with a couple squirts of iso, then let em dry while disassembled. If I'm feeling frisky I'll blast em with the compressor. I got to thinking about it as one of my original mineral oil kits had a seal swell up, which was a bummer since I paid for the 'factory approved kit', i.e. way too much for a couple fittings and a cheap syringe..... I'd been doing this with my DOT kit for years and decided if it was good enough for granddad it was good enough for the mineral oil kit. Been two years plus and the seals haven't degraded.
For my DOT brakes I have a water filled spray bottle (same one I use for ride wrap). Since DOT is hygroscopic, you really don't need anything more that water to do a thorough cleanup. Once in a while I also rinse the syringes with the same spray bottle and throw the water as hazardous waste.
For my mineral fluid brakes I clean up using a Iso 70% spray bottle. I don't use 99% because it evaporates too quickly. Water and mineral/oil are immiscible hence a solvent is needed.
I rinse my DOT kit w/ water, shake as much out as I can and then flush w/ IPA and let everything dry, for mineral oil I disassemble, let everything drain as much as possible, then flush w/ IPA.
Been doing it that way for years...
IPA? That IMO is the best use case scenario for an IPA!🤣
Speaking of syringes, this $4.50 turkey flavoring grocery store special has similar hardware/interface to the $100+ SRAM kits, gladly accepting their attachments, as pictured. No idea if it actually works for a bleeding job or if one could pull any useful vacuum with it.
I have one of those red ones and some identical yellow ones that came with an EZMTB kit. They are really good and rebuildable if needed. I've used them for Shimano, Magura and Hope systems for years. Never used them on a brake which requires Millibar level vacuum but they've never 'burped' in normal use.
You can get the exact same syringes in e.g. vet supply stores too.
I got them off aliexpress. I don't like the luer lock interface, I think it can leak air under a vacuum, so I'd really prefer to use some pneumatic compression fittings to make it work properly. I just can't seem to figure out what the thread on the syringe is.
That and the thread is straight into plastic and torquing the fitting down too much cracks the syringe.
They are quite nice though, fairly thick which makes them resist leaking fairly well as opposed to waker and thinner syringes, like original Rock Shox ones (used for suspension servicing). Those leak oil past the plunger just pushing it into fork lowers after a few years.
Thanks for the suggestion! Ordered a pair. I saw in the instructions that the little dial isn't refitted for the reach adjustment, could you confirm this?
The 3 syringes i have (2x Yellow EZMTB & 1x Red as pictured) all have a female 6mm metric o'ring sealed fitting. Its a brass insert that you can easily convert to hydraulic or pneumatic fittings if you wish. Its even compatible directly with a banjo fitting/bolt from a brake caliper.
If you check out this link, they are the A type syringe. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005192030360.html
Great info, thanks.
The ones I have I measured the corresponding fitting'S in the thread and even using metric and imperial thread rakes I can't figure out the type and pitch. The diameter is also somewhere in between everything, a metric screw doesn't fit, etc.
Converting to a hydraulic fitting isn't needed if you mean changing the thread, I'd screw in a standard M6 compression fitting and be done with it.
He was doing some tweaks to the design, but on mine no, you couldn’t refit the reach knob. It works fine with a long all key in the reach screw head though - think it’s 2.5mm from memory.
Where did you find this picture of me?
Dont forget a T15 for the stupid rotor bolts on the Shimano Centerlock 6 Bolt Rotor Adaptor... 🙃
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