The Bikeconomics (Mega)Thread

you make a good point here and I commented on YouTube saying the same thing but Markus contradicts himself multiple times throughout the interview with pretty major issues that just get ignored by Chris.
Two good examples are where he blames the athletes for not staying with the "family" but hides behind bankruptcy when it comes to reversing the equation. Chris doesnt ask any follow up questions. 
Another time where he talks about the fire sale and talks about how the company was in a bad position and they were seeking cash injections and they had the sale to raise money but the next moment he literally says that he had no idea about the company could go under despite just having spent the last few minutes talking about how they are raising money cause otherwise they will go bankrupt. Zero follow up questions. I thought that Chris could at minimum just offer some pushback with contradictions like this. 

I wouldn't call this an interview. it was more PR. 

YT Germany in a summary. Broke. Insolvent. Needing Cash. Restructuring to save a business. No one is safe especially not a USA Distributor wanting a 5 or 10 year guarantee in the current climate. There is not solution here. It's cut costs. save what you can. hope you make it. Period the end. No need for long discussions. Frankly investing in this brand and not bitcoin is stupid. 

You're very entitled to your own opinion, but I didn't hear the same contradictions you did. I've re-listened multiple times this morning and I still can't hear it the way you have. I heard Markus say they knew they were facing tough times but weren't expecting the PE firm to get to a point where they aren't willing to inject cash. The Fire Sale was an effort to get through that specific period without having to ask for more cash. That failed and then they were told 'no more'. 

As for your previous point, it's not exactly clear to me what you're saying, sorry. However, In relation to the DH team, I believe what he said is that the athletes are supported through good and bad times, ie if they are injured and can't do their job, they still get paid. I think he feels that loyalty should flow in both directions, so when the 'mother' (as he calls it) is sick, he'd like the athletes to return that loyalty. Not saying any of this is right or wrong, just trying to clear up any misunderstandings.

Could Markus have shown more humility and remorse, for sure. Did he leave me with more questions, no, not personally. Sorry if the interview left you with unanswered questions, but I can't record episodes through everyones brain/lens. I tried to understand what people would want to know from various forums etc, and I feel I hit those key topics of concern.

I always expected to get some hate for this interview, as I know there is a lot of strong feeling on this topic, which is understandable. I believe I have explained my approach and addressed criticisms openly here. I have done my best to bring you a side to the story that was not accessible in this level of detail before. As with every story, there are two (or many more) sides. It's up to us as intelligent humans to interpret the information available to us and make our own decisions. Thanks to my work, you now have more information to make those decisions on and it didn't cost you a cent.

I'm going to drop off the comments now as I don't think there's much more I can say on this, plus next week's episode needs finishing. But thanks to everyone who provided positive or constructive feedback, I appreciate it. I will learn, improve and keep trying to do my best for you each week.

There's more than one way to skin a cat. 

You don't have to deliver a Stephen Sackur HARDtalk style aggressive rebuttal based interview to provide insight. 

You can just let your interviewee make his case, ask the questions and let him respond. Give him the rope as they say.

For anyone complaining about the interview, who has listened to it and thought Flossman came of well? Do you really think anyone out there thinks that?

Chris let him make his case, and he sounds incredibly tone deaf and has confirmed to all of us the naive incompetent narcissist that he is. Mission accomplished. 

My issue is I assume not every downtime listener has all the facts to make their own opinions.  I assume a lot are mtb riders who don’t spend much time on vital or pinkbike who will really only have Marcus’s side of the story.  Especially say someone who owns a yt and is a teenager.

In a pod titled Marcus sets the record straight.  Not Marcus tells his side of his role in the bankruptcy.  Where Chris simply responds fair play and moves on or summarizes Marcus’s words in a neutral way.

Again I normally would have zero issue with this.  When he interviews a racer about his career or a product manager pushing a new product I don’t think there is much a need for journalistic awareness and integrity.  Here it is an entirely different matter.  Not only for past victims but people who may very well buy a yt bike cause they listened to 20 minutes of this pod and didn’t come to the same conclusions as someone who is on vital everyday.

How many people do you really think there are listening to Downtime that don't already know what's going on with YT? If you're nerdy enough to be listening to a mtb podcast with the owner of a bike company, there's a pretty reasonable chance you've already got a base level understanding of what's happening. 

To me, it seemed like MF('r)  genuinely didn't understand the insolvency process or side of business at all leading up to YT falling into it. He straight up admitted it in the pod. TBF I don't either but it seems like until mid '25 there was an assumption that they could just keep "powering through, business as usual" until it was way too late and the house of cards fell. Sweet management chops. 

 He addresses the insolvency like it was an unforeseeable natural disaster rather than gradual foreseeable mismanagement by the company itself. "How could this happen to ME?!" type attitude. Meanwhile no foresight or transparency down to the passionate people actually making the company run that NEED the $75k/yr salary to scrape by. No symapthy for these golden parachute types that keep sacrificing others livelihoods with little consequence and chock it up to a learning experience. 

@Downtime Podcast 

Been busy and have sporadically been able to follow the thread. I haven’t listened to the DT podcast. Haven’t listened to Brines debrief. But I do know this. 
MF asked/paid Chris to provide a platform.  Chris did that. Jumping on Chris for not asking the right questions is crap. MF was on the back foot from the company crisis.  Chris didn’t put him there. MF had every opportunity to at least clear the air and admit wrongdoing.  At any point during the pod MF could have said “Let me say this about that”. MF had an open mic to the world. 
What I really think Downtime really did was to give MF just enough rope to hang himself, and he did that very thing. 
 

Chris, please get Andy Kolb on the pod and let him tell what he can about the end of YT and the transition to the Syndicate!

.
 

I think we’re agreeing for the most part. My point was simply to remind the room that if you’re expecting hard-hitting journalism with in-depth follow ups and input from people other than Markus who were involved in this mess, that’s not what this podcast was trying to accomplish. And those expecting that it should are misunderstanding the interview.

As for the term paid, I realize that may have unwanted connotations associated with it, so perhaps “honorarium” is more appropriate.

Just look at the comments to the podcast.   Way more people praising yt and Marcus then the other way around.  So no.  I do not think the general consensus from the public is the same consensus that vital forum nerds are taking from it.  

We live in a world where misinformation is the norm.  The idea of here is one side of the story and people can do their own research elsewhere is wildly irresponsible when it comes to anything that actually matters.  Especially when you don’t explicitly tell the listener they need to do so.  But better yet if you are going to interview someone on a serious subject you should be prepared to challenge the person you are interviewing.  Not just go along and nod your head.

Can we move this convo to another, dedicated YT thread? Most of us don't really care. 

The TLDR is if you see a killer deal on a YT get it.  They ride well, just don't plan on replacement parts. 

Here's another story of bike industry woes for those who want to read about something new today - CPSC has issued a "Stop Using Batteries in Certain Rad Power E-Bikes Due to Fire Hazard" warning to consumers. The batteries "pose a risk of serious injury and death," the agency says, after 31 reports of fires. Rad Power is NOT offering replacements or refunds, as doing so would be "financially ruinous," the company stated. More here: https://www.consumerreports.org/product-safety/stop-using-batteries-in-rad-power-e-bikes-due-to-fire-hazard-a5978561291/#:~:text=Certain%20e%2Dbike%20batteries%20from,and%20HL%2DRP%2DS1304.

https://www.bikeradar.com/news/campagnolo-job-cuts-2025

Only 35 years after the fatal blow of Juli Furtado swapping out the Campy OR parts on her Yeti for Shimano the night before the Durango Worlds, Campagnolo is finally starting to feel the heat of missing the mtb and ebike markets.  

Campagnolo has also basically abandoned most OEM sales, except maybe for Ekar. Their product tiers effectively now run from "premium" to "ultra-premium." Not sure that strategy is working out the way they'd hoped. 

Handing someone a bill for replacement of a Campy drivetrain usually made for an easy Dura Ace sale..

I don't think it correct to assume that "Supercar money" can not be made in the Bike Industry. You can make decent money in the bike industry, then reinvest that money in something that multiplies your wealth astronomically. We live in a crazy world, where you can make insane amount of money with speculation in no time, if you are smart and/or lucky. Now, that money may not directly come from the bike industry, but I would say he could have pulled off his wealth from smart investment of money that he originally made in the bike industry. I believe that's legit.
His personal wealth shall not really matter, I believe.
I do, however, fully agree that there are a lot of things that meet the eye that do not really rhyme and the very public way he is handling it just fuelling these speculations.
Fact is that he has signed off the financial annual reports as the position of "Geschäftsführer" in '19, '20, '21 and 2022 (the equivalent of CEO) of YT Industries GmbH. In several German official portals, he has been contiuously registered as "Geschäftsführer" since 2008 - until today. It seems like he was never not "Geschäftsführer".
So, the narrative of "coming back in 2024 as CEO" does not really add up according to what can be found in official annual financial reports. He also clearly stated he will also remain in a crucial role as "CVO" when he brought in Nicols as Co-CEO in 2020.
https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/YT-Industries-Introduces-Sam-Nicols-as-New-CEO,4164
So, one must be allowed to assume, that he knew exactly what was going on at all times.
When the company was acquired by Ardian in 2020, I would bet that no one of the original owners was questioning, whether their payout actually reflected the company's real value or whether it was grossly overestimated. They happily took the money. Fair enough, of course they did. Anyone intending to sell would have done so.
But then complaining that the bids/offers to buy or invest in the now bankrupt company were "a joke" (his words) is, frankly, almost ironic. These offers might simply be the realistic value the market sees in the company now  - and that may be devastating, but it's certainly not "a joke".
You may be grounded very quickly.
So yeah, exactly because he is pulling off this very public stunt, people will start asking questions. No one asked for him to go so public. And some of his answers and explanations in this podcast alone immediately raised follow-up questions that @jeff.brines already mentioned. They were not asked, but they were so obvious. I am not blaming the host, not at all. I found the podcast very interesting. But rather than seeing him in a different light, my opinions we fortified.
I wish YT Industries all the best! I hope they pull through, but so far there has only been one side of the story and too many things still do not add up.
If the record is supposed to be set straight, some really uncomfortable questions need to be answered. So far, it is my opinion, they weren't.

 

RadPower: we had one of their 1st gen cargo bikes. It had a 3 month sweet spot one summer where both kids could fit on it and it was cool, as long as you were >175lbs, experienced with overfull wheelbarrows, and determined to “all go out on the bikes, dammit!” Thing handled like a freight train funny car. And when you were loading up it’d do this cantilevered origami takedown move, a slow motion implosion of shitty steel and kid limbs and bright plastic helmets that just wasn’t cool at drop off. Retired that thing to the wet debris zone. E mobility! 
Anyways, the dude I knew at RadPower is a psychopath sales goblin and I am not surprised they’re just gonna pass on the recall thanks but that’d be too much money sorry lol

Yes, "overfull wheelbarrow" is very accurate. The newer versions handle better, but still fall into the BSO [Bike-Shaped Object] realm. I'm not surprised that they aren't going to replace batteries given that they are probably shutting down entirely in January. Regardless, I am impressed by the sheer number of non-bike brand e-cargo bikes on the road in my little mountain town. The value proposition is excellent compared to similar offerings from Giant, Cannondale, Trek and Specialized.

true. That smaller specialized one looks great to me but there’s no denying the value of a shitty hub motor cargo eeb vs some five digit Dutch thing, no matter how cool I think those look

and we agree that Rad Power is not a bike company, that’s pretty sick hahahaha

Man, this thread is great. Now we have the CEO of a reputable German bike (component) company coming in here and taking a look at the CEO of a German bike company of (now) ill repute. What other bike forum has such participatory reach? Well done guys!

I would be very interested to hear more on FELT. The news seems to have really flown under the radar, but maybe that's because I'm so MTB-centric in my news and the last thing in the space that I recall the brand doing was paying the Robot to put the Felt logo on the ISIS flag like 12 years ago. I know we have some commenters with significant experience with the brand in the past, so learning more from Caesar and then putting our lens on it could lead to some very interesting discussion. 

On the RAD topic, I don't know how the American consumer protection scheme works. From reading the VELO article, it seems like companies voluntarily replace recalled items at no cost to the consumer, but they otherwise can say "no thanks" and it's just  reputational damage? Obviously if RAD is just going to go into administration, there won't be anyone to fund replacements, but if they continue to operate.... does the CPSC have more teeth than this to enforce a solution?

(For those who don't know, @Sacki is Stefan Sack, the founder of BikeYoke 😁)

We have a Ragwagon 3 and this hasn't been our experience. It's a cargo bike, but when loaded it doesn't feel like a overloaded wheelbarrow. It's my spouses bike and she's used it year around since the spring of 2020 and daily dragged two kids around on it. Our kids are small for their ages but at 8 and 10 we're still getting daily school runs on it and my spouse is of average 5'6" build not >175lbs. 

The bike has been a tank, spent several winters out daily in the Vancouver rain at my spouses work as she had no indoor parking option. This bike has been a car replacement and provided huge value above and beyond it's purchase price. I was skeptical going in as my spouse did the research and being a bike snob I thought it was going to be junk. I was wrong. I think bike people get hung up in comparing this to much much more expensive options, like comparing a mid 2000's Hyundai against a Mercedes, not a fair comparison.

We have a Rad city 4 with over 5000kms on it rolling around Whistler, it’s been flawless and with the addition of a not legit kids seat on the back for our 6yo it’s constantly over loaded. Like Earleb said it’s a Hyundai and goes the same places our friends fancy specialized and trek etc e-bikes go. I’d happily buy another one, and might get one soon if they’re about to go down the sink.  

It's easy to shit on Radwagon because they cater to the mass market, but they provided a valuable product and service that had knock-on effects throughout the rest of the industry. My Specialized Haul LT is a direct result of the market that Radwagon fostered and having a cargo bike to transport the family and run errands has been transformative for my lifestyle. I don't believe I would have arrived at the same situation that I enjoy now if it weren't for Radwagon. 

Yup I agree YT perfectly captures whats been going on in the wider industry - they aren't the only ones making bad decisions, just the most visible and it's important to watch so people don't get caught out again. 

The Felt one is super interesting - I haven't read too closely but Cesar is super smart and I'm fascinated to see what he's planning with it!

As a life long Campy fun, it's sad to see them go this way. 

My first road bikes has Chorus on them, and it was a fantastic group set.

Campy were a genuinely innovative company in the road market for quite a while, and ignoring some of their painful standards, it's frustrating to see them abandon the middle road and become a super premium brand only.