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New Tazer eBike from intense. Looks carbon and Bosch powered.
Crab Claws.
Crab pincer?
Looks like a Scor. Also furthers the point that the Vala is just a rebadged GT, since it is somehow a VPP e-bike with bosch.
Why can we not just have straight lines. Why does everything need a kink in it somewhere?
Interesting that another VPP brand manages to squeeze the platform onto an ebike.
Straight lines are nice, but you can't kink shame them.
The vertical shock layout with a 4-bar suspension design achieves the least amount of compromise when considering the old "Less expensive - Stronger - Lighter" adage. An extra link, part of VPP designs for example, is an added cost and weight but may add durability (stiffness falls in this category) over a 4-bar design.
Because now that "kink shaming" is out, the bike designers finally feel free to express themselves.
I took a deeper look at the press photos from the new electric Reign, and it looks like Giant have completely changed their lower linkage/front triangle interface. The lower link is now one solid piece that sits between the front and rear triangles, and the seat tube is split, down by the BB. This should create a less flexxy lower link/rear end, right?
I'm pointing it out not because a brand ought to go with VPP or Crab Link for their ebike, but because the 'Cruz explained in their podcast that VPP didn't fly with the new bosch motor, and yet - here's another brand launching a VPP ebike after the Vala (although admittedly I can't see what motor Intense is using in the photo).
Besides, I vastly prefer the "PON only released the Vala as four bar to capitalize on the R&D of the close-to-launch GT ebike" conspiracy theory anyway.
I like Santa Cruz but their crustacean justification is boiled, bruh
I can't image Santa Cruz (and every other other high end brand) isn't developing a DJI bike right now and they will manage to make it VPP again. Crestline already did it. Ran across one of those in the wild recently and had a chat about it. His buddies were on Amflow and freaking Teewing! There's a sizable chunk of the ebike market that is DJI or bust and will try a "not real brand" just for the motor. I can't imagine SC not wanting a slice of that pie.
I'd never buy an Amflow or Teewing, but I do view all these Bosch bikes getting released as already obsolete. That's only going to be sped up when the DJI Commencal drops for $7,900 (with a decent spec and supposedly lifetime warranty) Vala AL for $6K is the only good value for money Bosch bike. Any higher and it better have the new hotness of DJI. Every single ebike motor has a laughable 2 year warranty so what's really the benefit of going Bosch over DJI?
Only advantage Bosch has at this point, is that it's viewed as the 2000's Japanese 4 banger of the market. No new hotness, but people consider them very reliable. Sometimes HAVING a warantee and NEEDING a warantee are pretty different experiences. If they both had a 3 year warranty, would you rather own a Chevy Equinox, or a Honda CRV?
The guy who rides in Turbo mode everywhere, and has 3 spare batteries for more laps isn't the average EMTB rider, either.
For all you forum diehards who skip the homepage, here is some insight and our thoughts on Specialized first-gen proto downhill bike that went live today - https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/piece-bigger-puzzle-testing-specializeds-gen1-proto-dh-bike
It was a privilege to ride this bike and, as you'd expect, it was a damn fast. I'm eager to ride the production #2chainz bike, which I'd guess is coming early next year just based on the vague answers Spesh has given when pressed about it. Fingers crossed it won't cost an organ to buy one.
As a Crestline/Avinox owner I can tell you it's every bit as advertised. Downvoters don't know!
With the current VPP system, they can’t get the anti-squat to where they want it, based on the V10 project. The shock can’t be moved forward enough b/c the motor gets in the way. If you look at the current Bronson/Hightower, that is why the shock is mounted further in the frame. They are moving the VPP towards Horst link numbers anyway, so I don’t see too many downsides of the Vala/Bullit moving to a Horst.
The Avinox is clearly a nice unit, but I view the Bosch as much quieter (only motor that disconnects when freewheeling), free-er pedaling when power is off, has built in bash ring protection where-as the DJI motors need the 245 gram E13 bash ring, has better weight distribution, more service options and importantly more efficient. There are also some that feel the torque sensing is lacking on the DJI.
It would appear that the DJI is about 20% less efficient than the Bosch, even when power is equalized. That means on a meters climbed per watt, the Bosch is actually a lighter package.
The extra power of the DJI is more a parlor trick to me, and not an actual useful feature. Maybe if I had all DJI buddies and lived in real mountains though I'd want that 105NM (technically, not class 1). The DJI has some functional features with the autoshift functions. Bosch is getting autoshift and ABS soon. The DJI does look better, however, particularly with an 800w battery, but this comes with a notable heavier front end.
Also, not entirely without value (to me), Avinox is a Chinese built and owned product (supports Russia, commonly steals tech, etc.) where-as Bosch is a German (UN) company.
I don't get to ride a bunch of bikes, but after reading a lot of reviews I specifically searched out and ordered a Bosch motored e-bike because I think it's a better overall product and ended up ordering an Antidote frameset with the CX-R motor.
I'm bookmarked straight to The Hub sorrynotsorry
Jason, you still have two kidneys, right?
Maybe the dji is a bic pen like the shimano? Are they rebuildable? All of the bosch motors can still be rebuilt
Hey, we don’t kink shame here (pre-gen 6 Knolly rider here)
Dang it… shoulda checked the next page before commenting.
Alright y'all I've been manning up to mention this but let's put out a feeler for updating that "Emtb rumors and motor whatnot innovations" thread?
Not that the new motor with 2 more whatevers of awesome wouldn't be interesting, but it's so interesting it deserves its own topic I reckon!
I believe Santa Cruz when they say they couldn’t get the suspension kinematics they wanted out of VPP+Bosch motor. It’s possible a manufacturer releasing a VPP-like bike was willing to make tradeoffs that Santa Cruz wasnt.
Do those tradeoffs make a difference? That, I don’t know.
Trying to focus this one the thread topic on hand, I'm willing to bet that when SC updates the Nomad and Megatower next year, they go 4-bar also. I have a Vala, a Nomad 6, and a Heckler SL, and strongly prefer the Vala kinematics overall. As mentioned above, it reduces anti-squat and anti-rise to a better level, which pay dividends in reduced pedal feedback when riding hard. The VPP design is nice for making a poppy, energetic platform, so it probably has a place on their shorter travel bikes, but I think on their longer travel enduro/freeride bikes, their 4-bar implementation would be better. There are other advantages like being able to independently adjust progressivity without changing the geometry, or vice versa. And as an added benefit, you can finally fully slam a long travel dropper (I've got a 200mm AXS in my Vala, and when I try to install it in either of the VPP bikes, it bottoms out on the shock tunnel a couple inches above where I need it).
IMO they nailed the V10 kinematics. Plus press love them and pros are doing well on them. I would expect the updated Nomad and Megatower to stay VPP since they have space to move the shock forward to get that ~120% AS.
Teaser stolen from the other site. best look yet at Berrecloth's Ursa.
the Bearclaw Bear
Having ridden a DJI powered bike (Mith) extensively, to the extent I still have an order in for one, and also having a Bosch Gen 5 bike, with the power upgrade, the post above covers the pertinent points. I don’t think there is that much variance in efficiency, all things being equal, but I don’t buy into the notion of “if it’s not got a DJI it’s not selling”. Bosch outsell DJI at a rate of thousands to one, they aren’t going anywhere with the latest motor. It’s really good & fractions different in the real world.
The problem is the AmflowBros like to shout a lot about a good motor, on an average bike.