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About the same day when Jack Moir posted this clip of a... transfer
That 'article' had the depth of an upside-down thimble.
They never really "closed". Cyclepath PDX took over the spot and the brand from the get go. https://www.instagram.com/p/DJcCyM1J5lK/ The FTF brand has been retired (along with the founder of FTF and the reason for closing in the first place).
Update, sorry to have to link to the Pink Site but they have the scoop.
Flossman has submitted an offer to buy back the company.
They still say YT USA is in full operation.
YT Mob program to be "paused for a certain period of time"
He has personally invested money to ensure orders are fulfilled, or refunded, for everyone.
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/majority-of-staff-laid-off-at-yt-industri…
Horrible article by 'enduro mtb'. Do they not like YT lol? Calling it a 'cult brand'. Sounds like that guy from PB that comments on every YT post that they use satanic imagery and hope the brand fails.
Also didn't use any official statements or information. The pinkbike article at least provides a LITTLE more to clarify... Yes, YT EU is still restructuring and seemingly going fully under Markus since he couldn't find investors. And YT US is still 'running as normal' (for now). So, to put it in the shortest words possible... Nothing actually changed. Even the pinkbike article makes it sound like the ENTIRE staff was laid off. When they are keeping a skeleton crew to function at all.
News bait gonna news bait. The only thing that seems obvious now without being confirmed is that YT MOB is done done. ANOTHER 'pause' (Aaron Gwin rolling his eyes)
I still want the funniest timeline where YT can't succeed in the EU and can only continue on in the US, effectively becoming a 'US brand'. Just for the lolz, of course
Markus Flossmann sent us this statement
As you may know, the main shareholder (PE investor) announced at the beginning of July that they would no longer finance the company, which forced us to file for self-administration insolvency. That gave us three months to find a new investor. Unfortunately, the offers we received were an absolute joke and not worth considering. That’s why I decided to buy the company back myself. The creditors’ committee has already approved my offer, and we are now in the process of finalizing the contracts in order to relaunch the business under the new setup. As you can imagine, this is anything but a small undertaking, both financially and in terms of effort.
To ensure that no work is performed by employees that the old company would no longer be able to pay for, the majority of the staff has been released during this transition period. A small team remains in place to answer customer inquiries and process orders. We hope to conclude the negotiations as quickly as possible in order to minimize the impact on our customers.
It’s important to note that this only concerns YT Industries GmbH in Germany. Our U.S. subsidiary is not affected, business there continues as usual, and there are no restrictions.
On a side note:
Open customer orders: Every customer order will either be fulfilled (if the bike is in stock) or refunded. To ensure this, I have personally invested a significant amount of private funds. Outstanding orders should be completed within the next 4–6 weeks.
In order to put the new company on a solid footing, some savings and cost structure optimizations will inevitably have to be made. I therefore assume that we will pause our MOB program for a certain period of time in order to keep start-up costs within a reasonable scope.
Had a pleasure to work with many amazing people at YT. Hardworking individuals who were there either caring for real about riders or at least about the quality of their job. Friendly, chill, respectful. The leadership, however, was mostly a different thing (not without exclusions though).
@BicyclePubes strike again and offered to buy out YT after they failed to buy out Kona ? That is no joke offer.
a cult brand is something positive in the german language
'shutting its doors' (when its not fully the case) probly isnt
is that a mistranslation as well lol
i mean they didnt even use the official statement other media outlets used
Kind of figured that was what’s going on when news spread that an unknown investor all of a sudden started to provide funds to compensate customers affected by the insolvency. Think of Flossman what you want.. he sure has made some questionable business decisions with selling the company to PE in the first place. But that is one fine move.
I really wish him that he will be able to rebuild his life's work
I wonder if he turned a profit on the deal? Sell high, buy low...
Is anyone else thinking the YT brand isn’t worth saving? Terrible warranty reputation, plus the latest fiasco with shipping a new bike while existing orders are in limbo, and TWO large scale exits from world cup racing. Why would anyone choose to give them their money in a saturated market?
he will buy it back cents to the dollar, cue a bunch more porsches, richard milles and yachts.
I don't blame him either.
Having a hard time understanding how the ceo of an insolvent company is buying said company and plans to finance it. Industry is tough right now. The economy for most people in the world is getting pretty rough. And yt has absolutely burned it’s credibility. Hard for me to fathom how this works out but perhaps you all have a diffirent opinion. Sucks for everyone who got laid off. Was really hoping someone would step in, show management the door, and get things going right. But I imagine that’s a tough sell considering the state of the industry and the state of the company.
So my question for the podcast and clickbait YouTube thumbnail is yt done or can it be saved?
I mean I like the general concept of YT.
It's just awkward the guy who is 'saving' it now is also the guy who would have ultimately gotten it where it is now (in both good ways and bad).
I don't need that much marketing. I don't need to live uncaged. I arguably don't need as many trims of each model. Some of those models could even be ripped out, not sure.
I don't need a race team if they're going to continually fuck riders over, from Gwin to Vali etc.
If they want to price lean, they should run the brand lean. Closer to Polygon, more so than Canyon/Commencal. (tho polygon has the benefit of being their own supplier)
So it's not that it is or isn't worth saving, it's that it would be better if they were more honest with their future/long term goals. And stop 'LIVING UNCAGED'. When I think of the kind of people who would unironically say shit like that I do not think of smart businessmen. I don't think amazing engineers and designers concern themselves with being 'uncaged'.
I get it. It's marketing. But I don't need it. The only marketing I thought they kinda nailed was the Izzo release animation. Actually insanely good tbh.
Somebody on pink site made a joke about them being re-named to something the opposite of young talent... But honestly yes. Literally that. They've been around for a while. Time to stop acting like the scrappy underdog. You can still have borderline edgy imagery and fun paint jobs but... Ideally stop there.
Haven't met a ton of people who say they bought YT because of the imagery/paint. If anything I've seen more people say they avoid the brand because of that. Luckily they offer almost all models in black if people don't want color. Everybody who buys YT does so because of the value, as well as having the mills nearby (for those who are on the fence about buying from Canyon/Commencal/Polygon/etc.)
I hope he cashed in SOME what during the sale and re-buy, but otherwise enough with the PE attempts. Keep it private, keep the ship tight, run it lean, avoid the volatility, stop fucking over racers and customers. Get back to base line. Offering better bike builds at better prices than the shops do. That's it. Like even at the SAME price, a bike with Hayes Dominions and Kryptos stock? Or just even an affordable Ohlins build? Who needs edge lord imagery when you can have a 'custom-feeling' bike for the price of a stock bike? I think Propain has really nailed that element down but it is pricier to ultimately get that custom build.
Live or die... I just feel bad for the racers and employees. From 'uncaged' to 'unemployed'. What a cock up
It's basically business 101, You create a company, Build it, make it successful, Get investment Market interest, Go public when Business booms , Take a massive chunk of $$$, leave or step into advisory role, Investors want their share, business struggles as that market crashes - investors want out, Buy back at F all "big success"
Rinse an repeat.
Im invested in several Companies as a major shareholder and I watch the market like crazy. I get My pay out, check the Conditions of market and dump shares while its still good.
- I do think this is wrong but Many do it and it's Extremely good income.
very cool
I’m constantly shocked I don’t see more Propains in the US, especially with the value and how everyone watches Remy. Maybe Propain got their US business up and running after the irons cooled (2022 right?). Feels like 1/3 of all the bikes I saw at the bike park today were YTs. “Cult brand” is a positive in the US too (Banshee, Knolly) but YT is for sure mainstream here.
Aside from the models being slightly niche, kinda YT-esque being skewed towards gravity, they have a warranty reputation maybe even worse than Canyon. Now I don't think their bikes break as much necessarily, but still the process is supposed to be grueling. And mind you most of the other brands have started a warehouse/distro in the US by now (even Canyon, in San Diego). But I don't think Propain has? I could be wrong.
Add on to that the bikes used to look a little funkier and 'less familiar', that never helps. But still you are correct Propain is a badass option on the market and I love how they operate. So sick of being locked into 'one brand' for a stock build. I mean even for things like... If I prefer a Shimano/Fox build, I may not want an X2 shock because I don't want my bike to be in the shop half the year or whatever. So just being able to change that from stock is epic.
Also there aren't any Propain riders in the US doing heavy marketing? I think it was just Storch and the other gentleman (Ryan?) doing kinda freeride-y stuff. As much as I love it, it's not the best marketing for the average US customer.
They should market their Hugene to the US more. That is a sick trail bike. Maybe a touch portly for a 'trail' bike but... Not by a huge margin. It leans more all mountain trail than XC trail anyway.
I am seeing more and more of them as of recently. Including a brand new looking one on the trail this week. I think a lot of average consumers (not enthusiasts) still don't even know they exist. Not a big world cup presence (sorry Phil). Not a big youtuber/influencer presence. But they don't seem to mind. Not gonna end up like YT by sponsoring big name racers and influencers...
Also not defending Flossmann, but just would like to add that the Kona Founders did the exact same thing a year or two ago.
And Revel
33. 34. and more, as you can basically add all accell brands which had to close their local facilities. These brands are now just a front with a name, the people who made the brand what it is are gone.
We’ll cover this on the pod in a few days, but the idea of Markus buying the company back isn’t all that surprising. One of the companies I consult for went through something similar: a private-equity exit gone wrong where the founder bought his business back from the PE firm for just 10% of the price he sold it for. Within a year, he had restored it to its former strength.
The key difference here is Markus himself. He’s shown very little aptitude for running a sustainable business. While I don’t have all the financials, nothing suggests he can consistently deliver bottom-line performance above his cost of capital. That’s the textbook definition of destroying value...and a big reason why the offers he received were, in his words, “a joke.” You can get away with games like this during growth phases, but not when true profitability is what keeps the lights on.
What’s worth watching is whether this move is pure hubris, betting on conditions that no longer exist (low rates, no tariffs, stronger consumer demand, no post-COVID hangover) or if he actually has a plan to rebuild in today’s “new normal” bike economy.
It's interesting seeing Markus' take on it - I've worked through 6 M&A cycles in my career, and always, always, always, the PE/VC/corporate acquisition unit look at board & SLT conduct & optics.
Think like an investor - would you sink money into a business with shaky (at best) financials, disrupted supply chain, global tariff wars, in a market segment in well publicised decline (probably where you've seen investment industry peers take a haircut), AND with a founder/CEO who's acting like he wants Ballerbusters to feature him?
I love what YT did in terms of market disruption, brand development, product etc, but there was obviously a lot of vanity metrics snd little financial responsibility. As Jeff has said before, very little CFO-ing - and this is the result.
Propain USA is in Vancouver, WA. Rode with a guy recently with a Tyee and it was the first I’ve seen one up close (or at all?). Nice looking rig. They certainly don’t spend marketing money like YT. Their biggest hurdle for native English speaking markets is that horrible name.
In fairness to our Kona guys, perception matters and when you intentionally and unironically create the online persona of a rich asshole, that's going to alter the flavour of your subsequent acts. The kona guys didn't do that so their "return to grassroots" takeover of the brand just has a different feel.
YT was also never a viable business, where Kona was, for decades. YT's whole business model was sell bikes for such low margins that you barely make a profit, with no room for economic disruptions. The bike industry is very cyclical, disruptions are baked in. What is their path forward? Raise prices to "normal" so they have a sustainable level of profit? Their customers are only here for low, low prices.
The amount of times my phone has autocorrected to propane when I'm googling their website... lol
Well I'd love to see more. I def see a lot more Propain bike checks from the US online in the years post-covid. So I'd assume they're trending in the right direction.
I def think heavier, gravity-oriented bikes with an unfamiliar looking linkage and a funky name is a poor sandwich to serve to Americans. But the proof will be in the pudding for anyone who tries them. They've reviewed well everywhere I've seen so far. Only hiccup I've seen mentioned is predictably the service/warranty experience over here. But people with problems shout the loudest so... (grain of salt n all)
Looking forward to the discussion on this. The public history tells the story of a founder cashing out at the peak of the boom, retaking the reins when things got rough, failing to make the necessary changes to the business, and ultimately having to declare bankruptcy.
How do you hire Kolb mere months before going bankrupt? How do you run a flash sale mere days before your investor pulls any future financing? Decisions like those indicate a management team that did not understand the state of the business they were running or the market conditions they were operating under. Or perhaps they did and it was all pure hubris (aka let’s just do it and be legends). Regardless, I would have very little confidence in that team moving forward and any investor worth their salt would likely feel the same (another reason why the offers were "a joke").
Oct 2020 - Flossman interview https://www.pinkbike.com/news/interview-yt-founder-markus-flossman-on-brick-and-mortar-shops-christopher-walken-and-covid.html
This is quite revealing for where Flossman's head was at going into 2021. He hedges his answer a little, but this reads to me like a guy who thinks the boom times are just beginning.
How has YT been affected by COVID?
We have not been affected negatively. I think the whole bicycle industry is one of the winners, but let's see how next year will be.
I think we have seen a big boom. We have seen a lot of new customers joining the mountain bike business. Let's see how it turns out next year.
Nov 2020 - YT hires a "professional" CEO (and CFO based on LinkedIn), Flossman to CVO (Chief Visionary Office 😂) role https://www.pinkbike.com/news/former-amazon-country-manager-Sam-Nicols-joins-yt-industries-as-new-ceo.html
Peak bike boom, current ownership wants to take advantage of the market and cash out. CEO (ex-Amazon) and CFO (ex-KPMG) brought in to professionalize the management team and find an investor.
Aug 2021 - YT acquired by Ardian https://www.pinkbike.com/news/yt-industries-acquired-by-private-equity-group-ardian.html
PE firm Ardian takes majority stake based on "significant growth potential for YT".
We'll fast foward a bit until things get interesting. During this period there were a lot of bike releases, new store openings, relaunch of the YT Mob in 2023 (https://www.pinkbike.com/news/the-yt-mob-returns-with-jack-moir-kasper-woolley-and-more.html), etc. No signs of a company in distress, at least publicly.
Jan 2024 - Vali joins YT Mob https://www.pinkbike.com/news/vali-holl-rejoins-yt-industries.html
Big marketing spend continues. Perhaps Flossman wasn't involved in the decision and this was the current management team. But he's the first guy shown in the announcement video so make of that what you will.
Feb 2024 - Flossman back to CEO https://www.pinkbike.com/news/markus-flossmann-returns-as-ceo-of-yt-industries.html
Hints of trouble with Flossman coming back as CEO. Do major changes need to be made? Or maybe they just needed to save some money after hiring Vali? Race team gets a big fancy new truck mid-season.
Jan 2025 - Kolb joins YT Mob https://www.pinkbike.com/u/edspratt/blog/andreas-kolb-joins-the-yt-mob.html
Spending continues with Kolb joining the team, he would not have been cheap.
July 16 2025 - YT goes into self-administration https://www.pinkbike.com/news/yt-industries-begins-restructuring-under-self-administration.html
YT is out of runway and has to declare bankruptcy. Shortly prior to this they were running a 50% off online flash sale, the proceeds of which were immediately impounded as part of the administration process, infuriating customers. Race team truck is likely repossessed as it does not show up at Les Gets.
Sept 25 2025 - YT Mob is done https://www.pinkbike.com/news/racing-rumors-vali-hll-to-commencal--schwalbe-les-orres-in-2026.html
YT Mob riders and staff appear to have been let go and are actively working on new contracts.
Sept 26 2025 - YT GmbH lays off everyone https://www.pinkbike.com/news/majority-of-staff-laid-off-at-yt-industries-as-markus-flossmann-looks-to-buy-back-the-brand.html
Flossman announces he had 3 months to find investors which was unsuccessful and is trying to buy back the company himself. Notably he admits the following:
YT Industries' main shareholder (PE investor) announced at the beginning of July that they would no longer finance the company, which forced us to file for self-administration insolvency.
What strikes me here in the timing, the 50% off flash sale was at the very end of June. I couldn't find exact dates but customers were complaining about orders placed on June 25, 26, etc (https://www.bikeradar.com/news/yt-industries-administration-2025). It would be quite the coincidence if they just happen to run a massive flash sale days prior to being told by Ardian that no further financing was coming their way. My guess is they were having discussions about the state of the company and Ardian's continued financing long before the flash sale or Ardian's final decision.
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