MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Primoz
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7/27/2025 9:24pm

It is. 

7/27/2025 9:42pm

I especially like the front brake hose routing 🤣

4
TEAMROBOT
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Fantasy
7/27/2025 9:58pm Edited Date/Time 7/27/2025 10:00pm

Not that anyone ever would ever bother to do this on the dumb two-shock ebike, but I’m trying to imagine how hard it would be to pick a base tune for two identical shocks working in parallel on a fairly normal leverage rate.

The funny thing with the one flight attendant shock is that, in that dual shock layout, every time the FA shock locked out it would make the suspension twice as soft by diverting all the force to the other shock. 

17
2
7/27/2025 10:09pm
TEAMROBOT wrote:
Not that anyone ever would ever bother to do this on the dumb two-shock ebike, but I’m trying to imagine how hard it would be to...

Not that anyone ever would ever bother to do this on the dumb two-shock ebike, but I’m trying to imagine how hard it would be to pick a base tune for two identical shocks working in parallel on a fairly normal leverage rate.

The funny thing with the one flight attendant shock is that, in that dual shock layout, every time the FA shock locked out it would make the suspension twice as soft by diverting all the force to the other shock. 

The way it should work with the dual shock is that one is spring rate and one in damping. Not sure if that’s what they are doing in this case, but that’s the reason it’s been done in the past.

5
TEAMROBOT
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Fantasy
7/27/2025 10:32pm
The way it should work with the dual shock is that one is spring rate and one in damping. Not sure if that’s what they are...

The way it should work with the dual shock is that one is spring rate and one in damping. Not sure if that’s what they are doing in this case, but that’s the reason it’s been done in the past.

If we were talking about that rad Cannondale proto that Matt Simmonds was on a few years ago, then yes, but I’m beyond certain that level of thinking is not happening here. Like someone else pointed out, it has a kickstand. 

8
boozed
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AU
7/27/2025 10:36pm
The way it should work with the dual shock is that one is spring rate and one in damping. Not sure if that’s what they are...

The way it should work with the dual shock is that one is spring rate and one in damping. Not sure if that’s what they are doing in this case, but that’s the reason it’s been done in the past.

TEAMROBOT wrote:
If we were talking about that rad Cannondale proto that Matt Simmonds was on a few years ago, then yes, but I’m beyond certain that level...

If we were talking about that rad Cannondale proto that Matt Simmonds was on a few years ago, then yes, but I’m beyond certain that level of thinking is not happening here. Like someone else pointed out, it has a kickstand. 

That Cannondale proto is still going, albeit without the second shock... Josh Bryceland rode it at Hardline.

5
7/27/2025 11:23pm
The way it should work with the dual shock is that one is spring rate and one in damping. Not sure if that’s what they are...

The way it should work with the dual shock is that one is spring rate and one in damping. Not sure if that’s what they are doing in this case, but that’s the reason it’s been done in the past.

Yeah, cannodale engineers now work for this chinese guys 🤣

1
7/28/2025 1:05am
owl-x wrote:

suspension guy please draw the wheel action on this dual-shock puppy. Gimme one of those stick figure squish pics. Thanks in advance. 

I'm sorry, you literally cannot do this configuration in linkage Sad  

5
7/28/2025 3:29am Edited Date/Time 7/28/2025 3:31am
TEAMROBOT wrote:
Not that anyone ever would ever bother to do this on the dumb two-shock ebike, but I’m trying to imagine how hard it would be to...

Not that anyone ever would ever bother to do this on the dumb two-shock ebike, but I’m trying to imagine how hard it would be to pick a base tune for two identical shocks working in parallel on a fairly normal leverage rate.

The funny thing with the one flight attendant shock is that, in that dual shock layout, every time the FA shock locked out it would make the suspension twice as soft by diverting all the force to the other shock. 

Or...

How heavy is this bike that it takes 2 shocks with maxed out air pressure to make it work?

 

Also

"Yo, i heard you like shocks so we put a shock on your shock."

5
badIuck
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11
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DE
7/28/2025 3:42am
owl-x wrote:

suspension guy please draw the wheel action on this dual-shock puppy. Gimme one of those stick figure squish pics. Thanks in advance. 

I'm sorry, you literally cannot do this configuration in linkage Sad  

You can just analyze it with one of the two shocks. Result is the same for everything but forces on the shocks. and rocker.

2
7/28/2025 3:59am
The way it should work with the dual shock is that one is spring rate and one in damping. Not sure if that’s what they are...

The way it should work with the dual shock is that one is spring rate and one in damping. Not sure if that’s what they are doing in this case, but that’s the reason it’s been done in the past.

TEAMROBOT wrote:
If we were talking about that rad Cannondale proto that Matt Simmonds was on a few years ago, then yes, but I’m beyond certain that level...

If we were talking about that rad Cannondale proto that Matt Simmonds was on a few years ago, then yes, but I’m beyond certain that level of thinking is not happening here. Like someone else pointed out, it has a kickstand. 

The kickstand is the pinnacle of the kickstand world... There are no better kickstands to be found anywhere..

2
Primoz
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SI
7/28/2025 4:42am
TEAMROBOT wrote:
Not that anyone ever would ever bother to do this on the dumb two-shock ebike, but I’m trying to imagine how hard it would be to...

Not that anyone ever would ever bother to do this on the dumb two-shock ebike, but I’m trying to imagine how hard it would be to pick a base tune for two identical shocks working in parallel on a fairly normal leverage rate.

The funny thing with the one flight attendant shock is that, in that dual shock layout, every time the FA shock locked out it would make the suspension twice as soft by diverting all the force to the other shock. 

No, the two shocks are in parallel, not series. Having them in series would make it half as stiff. Having them parallel makes it much stiffer still. 

9
7/28/2025 8:05am
The way it should work with the dual shock is that one is spring rate and one in damping. Not sure if that’s what they are...

The way it should work with the dual shock is that one is spring rate and one in damping. Not sure if that’s what they are doing in this case, but that’s the reason it’s been done in the past.

TEAMROBOT wrote:
If we were talking about that rad Cannondale proto that Matt Simmonds was on a few years ago, then yes, but I’m beyond certain that level...

If we were talking about that rad Cannondale proto that Matt Simmonds was on a few years ago, then yes, but I’m beyond certain that level of thinking is not happening here. Like someone else pointed out, it has a kickstand. 

I agree this isn’t the case. Just was meaning the theory behind using 2.


Apparently this bike auto adjusts the suspension also….🤭

IMG 7550
2
Losifer
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Sandia Park, NM US
Fantasy
7/28/2025 8:36am
The way it should work with the dual shock is that one is spring rate and one in damping. Not sure if that’s what they are...

The way it should work with the dual shock is that one is spring rate and one in damping. Not sure if that’s what they are doing in this case, but that’s the reason it’s been done in the past.

TEAMROBOT wrote:
If we were talking about that rad Cannondale proto that Matt Simmonds was on a few years ago, then yes, but I’m beyond certain that level...

If we were talking about that rad Cannondale proto that Matt Simmonds was on a few years ago, then yes, but I’m beyond certain that level of thinking is not happening here. Like someone else pointed out, it has a kickstand. 

The kickstand is the pinnacle of the kickstand world... There are no better kickstands to be found anywhere..

But is it carbon fiber?

 

3
sspomer
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Boise, ID US
Fantasy
7/28/2025 8:53am

if blulahahlhlah had some kind of OE deal w/ its spec, at what point do the component brands that support these efforts need to be held accountable? 🤮

8
7/28/2025 8:58am

image 404.png?VersionId=7J90EnKxPpNhn09VL

I'm in. 

Does anyone know of a good credit union, going to have to finance this since it cost more than my Wagoneer L

4
dwhere
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dirty, DE US
Fantasy
7/28/2025 9:05am
The way it should work with the dual shock is that one is spring rate and one in damping. Not sure if that’s what they are...

The way it should work with the dual shock is that one is spring rate and one in damping. Not sure if that’s what they are doing in this case, but that’s the reason it’s been done in the past.

TEAMROBOT wrote:
If we were talking about that rad Cannondale proto that Matt Simmonds was on a few years ago, then yes, but I’m beyond certain that level...

If we were talking about that rad Cannondale proto that Matt Simmonds was on a few years ago, then yes, but I’m beyond certain that level of thinking is not happening here. Like someone else pointed out, it has a kickstand. 

I agree this isn’t the case. Just was meaning the theory behind using 2.Apparently this bike auto adjusts the suspension also….🤭

I agree this isn’t the case. Just was meaning the theory behind using 2.


Apparently this bike auto adjusts the suspension also….🤭

IMG 7550

the use of "roughest paths" tells you the intended market. It's like the chef kiss of the entire marketing campaign. 

7
7/28/2025 9:26am

I'm going to take a moment to lay out a real tech based reason that a dual shock bike could be useful. Not because I think it's where this bike was going and not because I necessarily think it's a good idea. Just for the fun of it. Each shock has its own leverage curve. You could use this to create an effective leverage curve anywhere between the two by proportionally changing the amount of support you are getting from each shock. Let's say one leverage curve was 30% progression and the other was 10%... you could alter how each shock is tuned to get a 20% curve. Or 21%. Or any number in between the two bounds. This would be an absolute rabbit hole of course, but you could call it infinite effective leverage curve tuning if you wanted.

24
7/28/2025 9:30am
I'm going to take a moment to lay out a real tech based reason that a dual shock bike could be useful. Not because I think...

I'm going to take a moment to lay out a real tech based reason that a dual shock bike could be useful. Not because I think it's where this bike was going and not because I necessarily think it's a good idea. Just for the fun of it. Each shock has its own leverage curve. You could use this to create an effective leverage curve anywhere between the two by proportionally changing the amount of support you are getting from each shock. Let's say one leverage curve was 30% progression and the other was 10%... you could alter how each shock is tuned to get a 20% curve. Or 21%. Or any number in between the two bounds. This would be an absolute rabbit hole of course, but you could call it infinite effective leverage curve tuning if you wanted.

Hey, thats not a bad idea for prototyping! Whats the "best" leverage curve for a 150mm bike vs 180mm? Well, before you lock in your order for expensive molds you can use the test rig to find where you want it to be. 

1
ebruner
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Location
Tustin, CA US
7/28/2025 2:53pm
I'm going to take a moment to lay out a real tech based reason that a dual shock bike could be useful. Not because I think...

I'm going to take a moment to lay out a real tech based reason that a dual shock bike could be useful. Not because I think it's where this bike was going and not because I necessarily think it's a good idea. Just for the fun of it. Each shock has its own leverage curve. You could use this to create an effective leverage curve anywhere between the two by proportionally changing the amount of support you are getting from each shock. Let's say one leverage curve was 30% progression and the other was 10%... you could alter how each shock is tuned to get a 20% curve. Or 21%. Or any number in between the two bounds. This would be an absolute rabbit hole of course, but you could call it infinite effective leverage curve tuning if you wanted.

Canyon will be the first, it'll be called the phase shifter.  No one on earth will use it, except for Jesse Melamed... and he will beat everyone's pants off with it.  

But seriously, canyon is primed for some sort of real time, variable leverage rate situation with their shape shifter.  KISS... amirite?

11
7/28/2025 3:17pm
sspomer wrote:
if blulahahlhlah had some kind of OE deal w/ its spec, at what point do the component brands that support these efforts need to be held...

if blulahahlhlah had some kind of OE deal w/ its spec, at what point do the component brands that support these efforts need to be held accountable? 🤮

Is it OE's selling to brands like this? Or is it factories selling off overstock they have left sitting around? My guess would be the latter I highly doubt Sram/RS is selling directly to these brands.

1
7/28/2025 3:39pm

Jonathan Helly just keeps winning on the 2024 WAO prototype DH bike.

Now he's the latest Canadian DH National Champion, and took last (3) Dunbar series races in a row. It would certainly be in consideration for "the" hot new DH bike of the year if only WAO was on the World Cup circuit, still making frames and made it available to the public... Oh what could have been.

10
7/28/2025 4:33pm Edited Date/Time 7/28/2025 4:41pm

threw it into linkage and the anti-squat, anti-rise, chain forces, and axle path all follow exactly the same path as would be expected, the leverage rate and forces are slightly different. ( did not find the shock size and stroke but i made this assuming a 205x60 )

Screenshot 2025-07-28 193057 0

5
7/28/2025 5:09pm
threw it into linkage and the anti-squat, anti-rise, chain forces, and axle path all follow exactly the same path as would be expected, the leverage rate...

threw it into linkage and the anti-squat, anti-rise, chain forces, and axle path all follow exactly the same path as would be expected, the leverage rate and forces are slightly different. ( did not find the shock size and stroke but i made this assuming a 205x60 )

Screenshot 2025-07-28 193057 0

Additionally, heres a gif.    The colors come out weird because the two bikes are layered on eachother  :/BLULANSS11GTHorisontal-ezgif.com-speed 0

23
owl-x
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Location
Shell Beach, CA US
7/28/2025 6:54pm

hell yeah. crabbotron4000 with global shock redundancy 

6
7/28/2025 8:55pm
I'm going to take a moment to lay out a real tech based reason that a dual shock bike could be useful. Not because I think...

I'm going to take a moment to lay out a real tech based reason that a dual shock bike could be useful. Not because I think it's where this bike was going and not because I necessarily think it's a good idea. Just for the fun of it. Each shock has its own leverage curve. You could use this to create an effective leverage curve anywhere between the two by proportionally changing the amount of support you are getting from each shock. Let's say one leverage curve was 30% progression and the other was 10%... you could alter how each shock is tuned to get a 20% curve. Or 21%. Or any number in between the two bounds. This would be an absolute rabbit hole of course, but you could call it infinite effective leverage curve tuning if you wanted.

Isnt that similar to Yeti’s Switch Infinity?

1
3
boozed
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670
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Location
AU
7/28/2025 9:01pm
I'm going to take a moment to lay out a real tech based reason that a dual shock bike could be useful. Not because I think...

I'm going to take a moment to lay out a real tech based reason that a dual shock bike could be useful. Not because I think it's where this bike was going and not because I necessarily think it's a good idea. Just for the fun of it. Each shock has its own leverage curve. You could use this to create an effective leverage curve anywhere between the two by proportionally changing the amount of support you are getting from each shock. Let's say one leverage curve was 30% progression and the other was 10%... you could alter how each shock is tuned to get a 20% curve. Or 21%. Or any number in between the two bounds. This would be an absolute rabbit hole of course, but you could call it infinite effective leverage curve tuning if you wanted.

Isnt that similar to Yeti’s Switch Infinity?

Switch Infinity uses a linear slider to simulate an infinitely long rotating link (i.e. a circular arc with infinite radius is effectively a straight line), so these are two very different things.

2
TEAMROBOT
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Location
Los Angeles, CA US
Fantasy
7/28/2025 10:28pm Edited Date/Time 7/29/2025 8:57pm
Primoz wrote:
No, the two shocks are in parallel, not series. Having them in series would make it half as stiff. Having them parallel makes it much stiffer...

No, the two shocks are in parallel, not series. Having them in series would make it half as stiff. Having them parallel makes it much stiffer still. 

You’re right, my bad.

I was imagining the necessary air pressure/spring rate for each shock, which is half, but you’re right that once one of the shocks is locked out in parallel, the whole system is locked out. 

4
Primoz
Posts
4585
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
7/28/2025 10:52pm
I'm going to take a moment to lay out a real tech based reason that a dual shock bike could be useful. Not because I think...

I'm going to take a moment to lay out a real tech based reason that a dual shock bike could be useful. Not because I think it's where this bike was going and not because I necessarily think it's a good idea. Just for the fun of it. Each shock has its own leverage curve. You could use this to create an effective leverage curve anywhere between the two by proportionally changing the amount of support you are getting from each shock. Let's say one leverage curve was 30% progression and the other was 10%... you could alter how each shock is tuned to get a 20% curve. Or 21%. Or any number in between the two bounds. This would be an absolute rabbit hole of course, but you could call it infinite effective leverage curve tuning if you wanted.

Isnt that similar to Yeti’s Switch Infinity?

boozed wrote:
Switch Infinity uses a linear slider to simulate an infinitely long rotating link (i.e. a circular arc with infinite radius is effectively a straight line), so...

Switch Infinity uses a linear slider to simulate an infinitely long rotating link (i.e. a circular arc with infinite radius is effectively a straight line), so these are two very different things.

And part of the trick is the inflection point where the effective chainstay extends in the first part of the travel (high AS in the Pedalling range), then it shortens after the inflection point (less pedal kickback). 

6
7/29/2025 1:46am

Didn’t the corsair dual shock Crown do it for a wildly different bottom out control vs. the softer and high pivot beginning stroke sensitivity?

I thought that was a pretty cool idea - to isolate bottom out and initial stroke effects

1
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