E-bike talk: not tech rumor derailment

The more I read about this Bosch update the more I appreciate the Shimano EP801 with the current firmware. Easily adjustable for all this stuff. Underrated. 

Yeah, and Shimano seems to be doing something interesting with the overrun too. In the previous few posts, we were discussing how some people find the Bosch overrun in EMTB+ mode can be a little excessive. If I'm not mistaken, Shimano has either an option or a default setting on the EP801 whereby the overrun is cancelled by a slight backpedal. That seemed like a cool idea to me, as you aren't forced to choose a "one size fits all" setting for overrun, and can cut it off at will as the terrain requires. I can imagine that on some trails where there is a lot of tech climbing, with lunging moves up ledges or logs, you'd want the overrun maxxed, but if that same climb also has some tight switchbacks with exposure on the outside of the turn, maxxed overrun could be downright dangerous. No one wants to stop to futz with those settings on trail, so being able to cancel it at will seems like a cool idea.

Having said that, while I've ridden EP801 bikes, I was not paying attention to that specific feature, so I could be missing a downside. Like I could imagine it would be possible to accidentally cancel it when you're applying body english to hop up a ledge or something like that. Ideally you want the bike to be as close to reading your mind as possible, but its easier said than done. 

The new Decoy is officially out: https://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/e-bikes/yt/decoy-67731#product-reviews-653291 

Company woes aside, looks like they nailed it (apart from a removable battery). More market share loss for Shimano though, I can only think of 2 bikes from mainstream manufacturers that are current models and use the EP801- Orbea rise and Cannondale moterra SL. Are there any industry insiders that know Shimano's future ebike plans? It almost seems like (by choice or force) they might stop development and production, given the EP8 and EP801 supply issues and loss of market share.

Shimano seems a bit conservative (like many Japanese companies these days) and let their lead slip. Also bad reliability and noise? But you also have to look at companies like Bosch and DJI that have broader institutional knowledge to draw upon, enabling bigger leaps. 

You also have to remember, Shimano is a huge company with product lines across many industries. If one of those products slips I can't see them getting overly concerned. 

There must be a new motor in the pipeline by now. Most likely more power, smaller, lighter and without rattle. Maybe also a whole new system with batteries etc. 

I DGAF how sexy a new Shimano motor is on the spec sheet, they've burned a LOT of bridges with consumers and dealers over being total pricks over warranty and making it impossible to repair anything (at least in North America).  Their answer to everything is:  buy a new motor from us and pay your shop to install it out of pocket.

To be fair its not like the other manufacturers have vastly superiour policies or reliability. Plus people like to shit on shimano but they actually have kept the same motor mount for almost 10 years now. This means if your motor craps out or you're dissatisfied with the power on your old e8000 you can get a new or lightly used more powerful motor for relatively cheap. (lightly used motors start from 300-400€, new starts from 600-700€ in europe)

But yeah, they should offer cheaper replacements or spare parts. Its simply uneconomcal and not at all environmentally friendly to basically encourage people having to buy a new bike because the motor fails after a few years. Plus making it very difficult to service it even for professionals. This needs to be adressed and is a valid point!

amflow PL carbon w/ avinox M1 is now available in the U.S.

https://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/e-bikes/amflow/pl-67931#comment-656521

In all my bike media consuming years, the Amflow release has to be all-timer in saturation. Virtually every YouTuber I follow and don't follow had an Amflow video out today. It's kinda impressive. 

Do agree with Jeff Kendall-Weed, Amflow should use some of their cash to support trail advocacy, especially since so many people have their panties in a bunch over the power limits of the Avinox system and impacts on trail access. 

Anybody have any details on the new Intense emtb and when it will be revealed? Jonesing hard for some new info. 

What brands have announced using the DJI motor in bikes coming to the US market? Amflow (obviously), Forbidden, and Commencal. Is that the full list? Unno -- but I haven't seen confirmation that they are coming to the US as of yet.

+Crestline on DJI

And Crestline has already shipped most of their Avinox frames. Impressive for such a small operation. 

Don’t think Unno has any plans to sell here. 

Any idea when Forbidden will actually sell their bikes? Seemed like it was a done deal when it was announced back in April. 

In the first ride write up on the other site they said July/August, so incoming soon if they were right.

swiss distro got their s1-s3 test bikes in, but sadly the s4 is late and wont make it to testRIDE Lenzerheide in time, where i was supposed to ride both (i'm in the middle of both sizes)

I was told August to October in USA. Another shop told me it could stretch into October. But those times are quoted from mid April. Maybe something changed. 

Think I read on some forum they had to re-run one of the stays due to a defect? If that is true, that would certainly delay the release by months. 

https://youtu.be/4bLgCHLbKjw?si=IrFf6ryQIvESmOXE

Only watched the first few minutes, The power, weight and efficiency of Maxon is intriguing. If cost, reliability, and availability are also favorable, they could be a player. 
First heard of them via this article. 

Is pole running again or are they just looking for investors/interest to get it up running again? 

I'm working on a first look article for a new bike coming in the near future, and was curious what people consider to be 'too heavy' by today's standards for a full size (85-100Nm motor, 800Wh battery) eMTB? Do you even care about weight that much? 

My norco range VLT is 30kg (66lb) that's too heavy. Combine that with a 462mm chainstay and I've basically got a YZ250 with pedals.

I'd say for full power, it wouldn't want to exceed 24kg (52lb) in today's bikes with a build that could take some abuse. 

To answer your question, yeah weight does matter but it's relative. If a heavy bike had a tall stack and short rear end it could be totally fine. I only find my bike too heavy when bunnyhopping mostly.

Those Norco are so big and so heavy…but if you have the trails for that bike you’re stoked. 

I thing my Repeater is around 52. I wouldn’t want it any heavier.

I’m five years in to eMTBs and I have yet to ride an SL bike. They wouldn’t work for me in Seattle but down here on the central coast I think I’ll be looking at one next bike. Just don’t need 160mm here. 

yeah she's a big horse, I often joke I could take my hands off the bars and have a cup of tea as it's so stable (1340mm wheelbase in XL)

where that bike excels is exploring, I can ride from my garage, point the bike west and see so much cool stuff, 4WD trails, moto tracks or anything really it is not disturbed. The long rear centre and massive travel means it will climb up basically anything with good traction. Chuck 2 drink bottles on, some spares and you have a  electrically assisted pedal powered goat lol.

The random number I picked based on how the wind was blowing that day is 50#s ready to ride with pedals/ tools/ DH tires & coil suspension.

What I can tell you is that people have ridden < 50# e-bikes and then also ridden those >54# bikes seem to consistently state that it's the point where the e-bikes seem to go from feeling like 'bikes' to feeling like something more akin to a motorcycle.

Because of newer lighter full power motors coming out, which is totally a thing because the current sized motors can easily blow past the 750w Class 1 limit and the Solid State batteries that are already hitting production in Drones and even Chinese economy cars, we're going to have 44-47# E-Enduro bikes by 2030 for sure.

For me weight still plays a big part in my decision. I've recently found myself in a position where I can go and buy whatever ebike I want. Even the new one from the big S (if anyone sees I've gone down that route please shoot me on sight). I know I'm very fortunate to be in this position, I'm not bragging, just saying where I'm coming from.

I currently own a Levo SL. I want an ebike to feel as much like my normal bike as possible, but I need to feel confident it won't snap on me. I can always add weight, losing it is much harder/pricier. I want good range (not possible with the SL) and an extender battery would be a nice option to have. Components etc don't bother me as much as they can be changed. I couldn't give a shit about country of origin and geopolitics. Right now when I weigh this all up I'm finding it hard to look past the DJI equipped bikes.

I’ve been fortunate enough to extensively ride full-power e bikes ranging from ~43 to over 63 pounds, in roughly 5-pound increments. Each weight bracket brings its own personality and trail performance.

1. The 60+lb beasts

These heavy hitters dominate flatish, high-speed, bumpy terrain. Their sheer mass helps them power through rough ground with a confidence that’s genuinely grin-inducing. But take them onto steep trails with big steps and constant front-to-back rocking, and they can turn downright punishing. Control suffers and you end up feeling beat-up by the trail.

2. The 43-lb natural feel

Using my previous 37-lb enduro bike as a baseline, my 43-lb e bikes feels remarkably close to that natural ride. It allows last-minute, instinctive gaps and keeps the riding experience fun, fluid, and playful, especially on twisty, transition-heavy trails. If your this sounds like the trails you ride and your riding style is active, you’ll want to seek out this weight class at all costs. At this point, I don’t notice any trade-off, just a lack of the advantages that heavier bikes bring.

3. The 50-lb Threshold

Around the 48-53 lb mark, there’s a gradual shift. Bikes start to feel more cumbersome but also more stable. If you ride them in terrain that is in between the two extreme described above, they’re mostly great. In that range, you get a mix of both worlds and unfortunately, some of both their drawbacks. 

4. Climbing Considerations

Weight matters uphill too. My 43-lb bike is noticeably more challenging to keep traction and prevent front-end lift compared to heavier models. It’s a fun, engaging challenge, but it’s still a factor worth considering. 

Answering @Jason_Schroeder question, I can appreciate all weight brackets but I want as light as possible while keeping a "burly" build. I wouldn't want to go over 45-46ish pounds but I'm also happy with a 360wh battery. When I go out for more than 1.5 hours it's usually on the dh bike so more than that is dead weight for me!

On my third ebike now, my previous Giant Reign was alloy frame with heavy motor and battery, DH tyres and coil spring. It weighed 26kg (57lbs) with pedals, so I just don't see how anything heavier is justifiable.

Currently, have a carbon, bosch gen5 system with air suspension that is between 23 and 24kg depending on which battery I put in (51-53lbs). I don't actually find much difference while riding, but I appreciate the slight reduction in weight for loading it into the car or lifting it over fallen trees etc.

Even with lighter motors and batteries I don't see the weights of a bombproof (i.e. DH spec tyres and big suspension) dropping below 21kg/46lbs.

So yeah, being reasonable, I would like to eventually get to a 22kg/48lbs bike with something like a 1000Wh battery (as more powerful motors drain much faster, and I like full power)

Just to add a controversial take: after 2-3 years of ebiking, I didn't really like the feeling of my YT Capra with its 16kg/35lbs weight.