Hello Vital MTB Visitor,
We’re conducting a survey and would appreciate your input. Your answers will help Vital and the MTB industry better understand what riders like you want. Survey results will be used to recognize top brands. Make your voice heard!
Five lucky people will be selected at random to win a Vital MTB t-shirt.
Thanks in advance,
The Vital MTB Crew
Rebound baseline should be the pressure, not the weight recommendation. The spring stiffness (so the pressure) is what pushes back on the rebound circuit and is what defines how much damping you need. If you'll be running a lower pressure but the "recommended" rebound setting it will be way too damped.
FWIW I always ran pressures (Rock Shox) well below the weight recommendation.
While you are not wrong, spring weight and rider weight are closely related.
You wrote "The other aspect is that in the pdf from Pivot it says they find riders are running 2-3 pressure settings below the recommended pressure for their weight.".
Did Pivot already make this offset in their table? Thus the offset in Pivot clicker settings vs. FOX clicker settings?
First rule of thumb is follow the weight bracket for the pressure you set.
You can test this. Set the rebound to where the tyre doesn't bounce off the ground. Add pressure to the fork. See that without changing the rebound setting the fork now does bounce off the ground when you compress and release it. Thus you need to increase pressure damping.
As Primoz says: higher pressure requires more rebound damping. The difference between the rebound settings in the fox and pivot manuals are like 2 clics off, you’re going to go do bracket testing anyways, I wouldn’t worry too much about being one or two clicks off either way at the start…
If you're REALLY serious about working on your suspension, this might interest you:
LABA7 Launches Manual Shock Vacuum Bleed Pump
A reliable, professional-grade vacuum bleeder built for enthusiasts, small workshops, and hands-on technicians.
Enthusiasts, entry-level mechanics, and workshops that service shocks occasionally will have access to a professional-grade vacuum bleeding tool without the cost of automation. LABA7 announces the release of its new Manual Shock Vacuum Bleed Pump, launching by the end of July 2025. The hand-built unit delivers clean, air-free shock servicing at a more accessible price point.
“This product came directly from user requests,” said Andrius Liškus, CEO of LABA7. “We saw a need for a solution that fits between DIY setups and fully automated machines. Something dependable, built to last, and easy to operate in any setting.”
Liškus adds, “The Manual Shock Bleeder also reflects our ongoing commitment to serve not just elite race teams, but also smaller workshops and passionate individuals who look for quality and affordability.”
Built for real-world use, the Manual Shock Vacuum Bleed Pump offers consistent performance without automation. It’s compact, rugged, and constructed from the same premium components as LABA7’s top-end models.
The unit features two 2-liter internal tanks. It can service two shocks at once and is operated manually using the gauge and control valves. Vacuum level is fixed; pressure is user-adjustable.
Price: €1800 (excl. VAT). Delivery begins in July-August 2025.
This plug-and-play system supports all LABA7 adapters for MTB, motorcycle, and automotive dampers. It’s ideal for technicians who need clean, air-free bleeding, without the need for firmware or presets.
For high-volume shops or automated workflows, the LABA7 Automatic Vacuum Bleed Pump remains the standard. But when simplicity, control, and build quality matter most, the manual version is the tool to choose.
For more information, visit laba7.com.
Awesome! You can get them in the US from https://www.envelo.cc/products/laba7-dynos-and-vacuum-pumps who also stock SR Suntour products.
I am not sure this is correct, but I would disagree about the LSC adjuster doing nothing in a NSR product.
Hey,
a little head-scratcher for me, I could use your help, ideas, insight:
I own a Ripmo V2 and a RAAW Madonna and ride them a lot in rough terrain. 6ft/1.82m/77kg, long legs, long arms, size large frames, flat pedals. I am not a pro, but have been riding mtbs for 25+ and can ride EDR tracks rather comfortably, albeit not comfortably at race pace ;-)
I rarely destroy wheels and can get away with gravity tires without inserts. I do jump and drop, but don´t do the scary big and risky stuff (anymore). I couldn´t ride a WC DH track because of the big gaps and jumps, therefore. I am interested in bike tech and understand the functionality of my suspension and its adjustment, kinematics of my frames to some extent and also have experience with bracketing, use bracketing and am pretty satisfied with my bike setup.
One aspect of rear suspension baffles me however. Both my bikes (and several other similar AM/ENDUROish) frames I´ve owned in the past hurt my ankle / ankle joints / ligaments thereabouts - when ridden with certain shocks (mostly small volume shocks with lighter damping tunes).
I can really push speeds in rough terrain, jump, drop and charge on my Madonna with a good fork and a well setup big shock like a FLOAT X2, the VIVID AIR, some coil shocks all day long without any pain. (Madonna with 65mm stroke on 60mm rocker for almost 170mm of travel)
When I put a DPX2, a FLOAT X, a Super Deluxe (2024 model) in there, same stroke, same travel, proper setup (imho) - and I then ride fast and without taking it easy especially on dry, hardpack terrain, my ankles, ankle joints or maybe the muscles and ligaments around there start to hurt.
I don´t bottom out to the end of travel, there is a little bit left, but I think these shocks and their specific tunes might use a good portion of the travel faster. I am not that concerned with small bump sensitivity, but rather what´s going on deeper in the stroke seems to be important, once your not just bumbling along at slow speed.
Now on my RIPMO V2 (which I love) I´ve been struggling with rather severe pain in my ankles, when I ride it fast. Of course it has less travel than the Madonna, but only a centimetre. I´ve tried three different shocks. A Super DELUXE air with HBO was bad, felt harsh always, thought that was the character of the bike.
Then I tried a Float X, which works surprisingly well, but once I start to push it, it just gobbles up all it´s travel, on takeoffs more than landings or square edges. When I add a bigger spacer there´s some travel left, but it makes the shock harsher overall.
When I add pressure and go to 25% sag on the Ripmo, squareedges get so jarring, that my ankles feel sore almost instantly.
I don´t feel packing down or harsh metallic bottom-outs though.
Now I put a RS VIVID Ultimate air on the Ripmo, standard aftermarket tune (which I love on the Madonna) and it feels a lot more plush than the Float X, less ankle pain, but only if I ride it with a bit more than 30% sag, which results in less support around the sag point than I´d like. The bike looses its speedy feel and settles a bit into the rear when climbing. Pedal lever helps and pushes the rear end up on tarmac climbs and steeper fire roads.
With 28-30% sag the Vivid becomes super harsh on square edges however.
I´ve experimented with HS compression on the VIVID, as that is my best guess for this "problem". The Float X doesn´t have a HS adjustment.
Suprisingly when I rode a DPX2 with a standard CM/RM tune on my Madonna, it was similar. When I rode fast on hard packed trails with jumps and compressions, my feet got numb on the soles and I could feel my ankles...
Same pace, same trail, same conditions on the Madonna were absolutely fine and pain free on a X2 or simililar, even though the shock did use quite a bit less of the stroke than the DPX2. I owned a Ripley for a short time. Incredibly fun, but bottomed and out or killed my ankles from looking at it, once I rode trails I enjoy. Geometry felt secure and fine though, but my body didn´t after riding it.
Any ideas what I could to to make the Ripmo less harsh?
Try these funky long flat pedals?
Titanium ankles at age 42?
My guess would be that with the smaller volume shocks you are running into the progression ramp of both the shock and the rear suspension design. You're hitting the progression ramp and your ankles can't support the force anymore and are straining. That's why the X2 feels better but uses less travel. With the smaller shocks you're blowing through travel without dissipating the energy and crashing into the ramp up.
I would try removing volume reducers but increasing compression especially low speed. More LSC should help prevent blowing through travel from body movement.
You may also need to increase pressure and/or HSC to dissipate more force before you get to the ramp up.
Lastly speed up LSR to help the shock ride higher in it's stroke and stay away from the ramp up.
Thanks! I’ve experienced what you are describing on my Fox 38.
It is much smoother / comfortable in rough terrain when it is slightly oversprung, because it recovers much better. And I also like it better when the air spring is configured more linear, but firm.
I’d think more HSC could help to dissipate more energy over a large part of the stroke.
I’ll try that again and maybe I’ll try a smaller spacer with more pressure and more HSC as well. One variable at a time…
Possibly not enough HSC - those shocks (DPX2, SDLX, Float X) often come with tunes that have very soft high speed which would feel how you describe. They just blow through travel too easily and don't control the impacts well enough. The Float X2 usually has a lot more damping than all of those shocks as well as a more linear spring curve. The Float X is probably easiest to retune with a more appropriate setting, especially if you remove the extra free bleed from the base valve. It has a fairly large volume air spring too so I find with the appropriate valving they can be very good air shocks
Thanks for your input!
I´ll have a look at that. As silly as it sounds - the sleek silhouette of the Float X pleases me on the Ripmo. Also it´s simplicity.
I´ll give a retune a try (or rather my local tuner will). I´ll report back in a couple of weeks!
Very much appreciated!
Seems like there’s some good problem solving going on here, so I’ll throw my hat/bike in the ring. I recently built up a V3 Transition Sentinel with the stock suspension (Super Deluxe Ultimate/Lyrik Ultimate), and have been really enjoying the geometry, but having a hell of a time getting the suspension dialed in. It seems like no matter what I do, I end up bottoming out the shock every run, but ending up with 15-20mm leftover on the fork (currently running 85 PSI in the fork, 206 PSI in the shock, for my 190ish pound riding weight). The imbalance in travel utilization seems to suggest less pressure in the fork and more in the shock, but I’ve also been struggling with the bikes tendency to pitch forward under braking, which seems to point towards a firmer fork and softer shock. I’ve checked to make sure there are no volume spacers in the fork, and I’m up to 6 volume spacers in the shock with HSC and LSC fully closed, with no reduction in frequency of bottom outs. Any ideas at all would be extremely welcome.
Add pressure to the shock.
I find that balancing front and rear can be tricky because changes at one end affect the other.
Increasing pressure on the rear shock will lower the travel usage and help prevent bottom out. I find that if the rear end is too soft I use less fork travel since the bike can just leverage against the rear shock instead of the fork moving.
Quick question for you all:
I'm not a Kashima fanboy, so is it worth looking at getting a Factory 38 w/ GRIPX2?
Or just buy a GRIPX2 damper and put that in my OE Performance 38?
100% this
Old post, I know, but figured I'd comment since I've had just about every fork that uses 3 chamber air springs incl a RUNT and just saw this.
It's easy to get fixated on the pressures in each chamber, but a critical part of this is the difference in pressures between the two positives. You could have your ramp/IRT/whatever chamber perfect but if your main is too low, then it'll spike and ramp harshly, causing all sorts of issues. The reverse is also true. Having the pressures exactly right in both is less critical than having the gap correct. The tendency for suggested settings in all of them except EXT is to be excessively progressive and harsh unless combined with a lot of compression damping.
IME it's important to look at this as a whole system rather than individual pressures and focus on the gap between the two chambers. If the gap is small, then the spring will be more linear and coil-like, if the gap is more significant then it'll ramp harshly and be more progressive feeling. The bigger the gap, the more compression damping is required to keep velocities under control and avoid that spiked feeling from the spring hitting the ramp point constantly. Strangely enough, both the EXT and Ohlins for me at recommended settings were much less harsh with the HSC wound in nearly all the way.
So if you find it harsh, try either increasing main pressure or reducing ramp pressure, generally the former. In a lot of cases, backing off ramp pressure will have a lesser effect because I find the tendency most times is to run insufficient main pressure, which will still feel harsh because you are bumping the progression point. Sometimes you have to meet in the middle and adjust both.
With IRT in the Mezzer, for instance, I find ~20-25psi gap is best for me, tracks well, and isn't harsh. The Ohlins, EXT, and RUNT all operate off different volumes, so pressures are different but the same principle applies (I also don't remember what gaps I settled in on these).
As others mentioned I would add more pressure to the shock - I definitely find Transition bikes bottom quite easily and most people need to run a bit less sag/higher spring rates than expected. One of those designs where you might have to trade off a little bit of compliance for support and bottoming resistance, but I would keep going higher in pressure to see how it feels.
15-20mm left over in the fork isn't a huge concern, you will almost always use less travel up front and when you stiffen up the shock you might find it uses a little more. I do also find the Lyrik compromises support for compliance in the same way as the rear, and more than something like a Zeb, 38 or even 36 does.
@Filledwithfire - Kashima is a little harder wearing which is less useful in a fork but seems to make a difference in the shock, and the factory forks get better bushings and dust wipers. But in reality a performance fork with the Grip X2 and SKF seals is probably 95% as good as the factory one so I wouldn't worry about buying a whole new fork when you already have a 38
Get the damper, there is next to no difference. The performance might have different bushings, but if they are not smooth, you can have them calibrated with your next service.
There has been considerable discussion on multiple forums here on Vital and elsewhere regarding bushing alignment, stanchion/slider alignment, damper rod binding (new Fox dampers in Podium and '26 36 have mods to minimize this) and the small bump sensitivity people seem to want being compromised by these factors.
Yet when you convert one of the Fox or Rockshox forks available today to a coil, it seems that the small bump sensitivity is far superior and these binding issues appear to be much less of a problem.
Perhaps its the air spring in our modern forks that is causing most of the diminished performance...
I'd love to hear some of the experts weigh in on this.
Its well known that even good air spring can create up to 50% of the overall friction if the fork is not a lemon.
The seals need to be tighter with an air spring to stop the air from leaking, causing extra friction. This is well known.
A misaligned chassis or incorrectly sized bushings however will affect both air and coil equally.
I wouldn’t say that air springs are “causing diminished performance”, I think air springs are the best they have ever been right now and are no longer outperformed by coil springs.
There ARE however common occurrences of bad QC within the industry that need to be addressed.
Yup it certainly is, air springs can add a pretty huge amount of friction which can never be fully eliminated - especially in the low speed/high frequency bump scenario where the fork has to change direction very quickly. The higher the pressure inside, the worse it gets too which is why coil springs make such a massive difference when you convert someones fork
I've really enjoyed my v1 EXT Era, which has a butter-cup-like little mini coil on the bottom of the air spring push rod. To me it feels very coil-like, but it isn't tunable and I haven't had a chance to ride the latest 38mm stanchion offerings from the big boys.
All that being said, the smoothest air shock I ever rode was a 2016 DVO Diamond, 160mm of travel. That thing really did feel like a coil. Its a shame the damping wasn't sorted out and it would brake dive just like the Marzhochhis of old (or when pumping, or in a corner). So much so I had to run high compression settings that mostly negated that butter smooth top stroke.
Maybe a little on the side of the discussion, but i would like to hear your thougts on this:
Say you got two bikes with identical forks, bike 1 has a 66 degree head angle, bike 2 has 62,5 degree HA.
Would you use the same setup on both bikes, or have more/less air pressure in one of them?
The reason for the question is because on my Canyon Strive, when using the Shape Shifter, the sag on the fork changes quite a bit, and thats just 1,5degree of HA change. So internet, how would you go with the setups?
I personally wouldn’t touch the pressures if they were the same bike with different head angles. But then having 66 and 62.5 tells me that the bikes are going to be used for 2 totally different applications so then, yes technically you would need to adjust the pressures for each discipline. 🤓
No need to change pressure for the shape shifter.
I don't change anything mid ride, but i just got curious how "far off" recommended settings regarding head angle of bikes when i measured the differece my self.
What kind of QC issues are you seeing? That would imply parts made to the wrong size, not properly torqued or assembled wrong
More misaligned chassis, tight bushings and too much grease in the air chambers. These are known issues they should be checking for off the production line.
I get it, Proper QC costs time and money but in the long run, it saves money and reputation.
Hey everyone,
I’m currently running an Öhlins RXF36 M.2 at 170mm with a Vorsprung Smashpot. I absolutely love how this fork feels — I’ve had 36s, Lyriks, and even Boxxers in the past, but the ride quality of the Öhlins is on another level for me.
That said, I’ve started to notice a fair bit of flex in the lowers on rough enduro and DH tracks. It’s enough that it’s affecting my confidence in steeper, chunkier sections.
So here’s my idea: I want to keep the damper and Smashpot (I already have the Smashpot hardware sorted), and retrofit them into a RockShox ZEB chassis for the added stiffness. Has anyone tried something like this before? Mainly wondering if it’s even possible to adapt the Öhlins damper to fit the ZEB, or if I’d be wasting my time trying to fab something up. Cheers!
Post a reply to: Suspension Component Technology/Functionality Discussion