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that's interesting, i guess it also depends on what brakes you used them?
on MT7 the Trickstuff power were impossible to fade for me, and pretty quiet especially at speed, the sinter green i didn't keep for long but i found a bit more bitey and a touch more noisy, Galfer i only tried the purple and found them horrible on maguras, black caliper every run, trickstuff kept everything WAY cleaner
It was on T4V4 / Intend Trinity, same feeling for me on both brakes.
Thanks, I will give these Sinter guys a shot. I was always intrigued after reading the Enduro Mag brake shootout and how powerful they are. Also the fact couple of you here are saying they are super silent so these should be the ticket to a peaceful descent.
@Pedal Bob There "performance organics" from likes of Trickstuff and Galfer are something special and can't be compared to the organic offerings from SRAM/Shimano. I have faded SRAM metallic pads on our long mountain descents while had zero issues with Trickstuff pads. No change in feel, power and last a long time.
Nobody seems to run with Shimano OEM metallic pads or atleast writing any comments to forums.
Are the all other brands so much better?
I started using Galfer green pads instead of Shimano because they were significantly cheaper, quieter and didn't feel like I gave up any performance. Galfer's aren't as cheap as they used to be, but still my go to (when using Shimano)
I'm currently run v4 with sram centerline rotors (1.8 ) while awaiting shipment of thicker rotors, works just fine, U will need to file down sram brake mount adapter to fit caliper on 200mm rotor tho (code replacement on the bike)
I'm going for Dominion A4's this coming season, and as they come delivered with both their organic and metallic pads, I feel I can just drop an order on those Sinter greens myself as well. If they're good, they're good, and if not I can at least try the stock metallic pads(little faith in their stock organic)
Hel no. The design language is so diff between the caliper and the MC. The caliper looks good, the MC looks like a prototype OG Shimanos.
I've been using the Gold pads from Hardheaded Ram for Dominion A4 calipers the past year and a 1/2, and they've worked really well. Especially for the price, assuming in the US.
I'm thinking about trying the Blue and maybe Green as well. I'll have to do deep clean of the rotors though for that.
Being on the larger end of the human spectrum, 6’3” and 210lbs, I would agree that normal organics tend to fade hard when compared to metallics, especially when they get hot. Have found that the Sinters and Galfers don’t behave that way at all. It’s been a minute since I’ve run the Galfers but I don’t remember them ever feeling that way. The sinters just grab. Have had a few runs that were nonstop down 4k feet of elevation and they were good top to bottom, those were at the end of the season last year when we were still seeing ambient temps over 95f.
The ceramic based MTX’s seemed to need a lot of heat in them to get good initial bite out them. I liked the reds over the golds.
In the US the Sinters ship from unior USA and are $35 a pair if I remember correctly. Pretty cheap all things considered.
Was thinking or grabbing TS’s for the kahas after the sinters wear out, but I like keeping the same pads on both bikes so I toss the carbon wheels on the enduro bike for days when theres no lifts or shuttles for the rides, that bike goes through pads much faster than the trail bike.
Good to hear that it is possible to make pads in another way, and also gain different positive properties.
I'm willing to test the Sinter greens this coming season, but as I'm also going for complete new brakes also with rotors, I'm just curious what others do when it comes to trying different pads on the same rotors. Years ago I heard you should not use organic pads on same rotors as metallic and vice verca, but does that still come true today?
It's a bit over the top and get two sets of rotors and swap back and forth, so what do others do because if I start running Sinter greens on brand new rotors, what do I do if I want to try to stock metallic pads that come with the Dominion A4's?
It would be good to be able to test more pads myself and get something to compare to.
As far as I know you only need to be conscious of pad compounds when rotors specify pad compounds. Otherwise just a good clean when going between pad compounds is all that's needed. Maybe a light sanding after a round of brake rotor cleaner
An update to my Shigura experiences:
I've decided I prefer the Servowave levers over the non-Servowave levers. Not because of the Servowave itself, but because they have the free-stroke adjuster.
Interestingly I don't actually use the freestroke adjuster, on M9120 it comes already adjusted in the close to the handlebar position, on M9100 unfortunately the resting position of the lever is always too far away (for my tastes).
I can't say I know of a single company that says that's ok. Pad material gets embedded into the rotor surface, so even with a light sanding you won't get all of it out. That embedded material is what creates most of the friction between the pads and rotors. The difference between the pad compounds will affect peak performance. Will it be to betterment or detriment is an unknown. Even fuller disclosure, I am guilty as allllll get out of doing this, but it's always been between like compounds, in my case sintered pads for sintered pads from diff manufacturers. I have not tried cross breeding (Ha!) with semi met/organics or with ceramics, so caveat emptor. I'm giving ceramics a go on my roadie and I am swapping rotors when I do. First time trying em out and I want to have as close to a best use scenario to give em a proper chance. Hoping to remedy some of the sintered screams of freezing cold pads and rotors (New band name, Sintered Screams). Anyway, if the mix and match doesn't give the results you were hoping for, don't necessarily hold it all against the compound/manufacturer.
I mean, yeah the brake companies will say use new rotors but they also have a financial interest for new rotors to be purchased. (Adjusts tin foil hat)
Going from resin to sintered, most pad material deposited will most likely be abraded out. Maybe going sintered to resin a resurface or new rotors would be called for.
I've gone from sintered to ceramic and back with no noticeable degradation in braking performance. In the moto world I've heard of taking abrasive pads to rotors, resurface if there's a noticeable problem and there's enough rotor left.
Probably need a side by side test and maybe an electron microscope to see the real world implications. But I ain't got the funds for that.
I will be receiving new pads next week, ceramic and some other mix, and I have sintered currentl mounted, so maybe I'll try an unscientific beer fueled experiment that will be null and void, and probably injurious but science!
Orbital sander + 120 grit pad 20-30 seconds on each side x2 using medium pressure. This is how I prep my rotors when changing pad compounds/brands. I even do this when changing pads to fresh ones. Never let me down.
Fkn yes! This is the sort of ingenuity that I come here for.
looks like i'm buying a sander....
not sure why i'm not a fan of sand paper and rotors, i feel they would become uneven and do more harm than good
Well I have access to a high accuracy surface grinder at work, I wonder how I can get it to hold brake rotors.
Your commitment to the cause is notable and commendable!
Magnetic base.
Story time. Ages ago, a good customer at the shop I worked at picked up some fancy aluminum Italian road frame and at the same time a brand new Phil Wood bottom bracket to go with it. He installs it and torques to spec (he was a highly competent home mech and used us when the WTF quotient got outta hand) and goes to tweak the chainline some and lo n behold, bottom bracket is frozen solid. Keep in mind, this is brand new, hasn't had the wheels installed yet much less been on a ride. We're contemplating the hows and decided to call Phil before proceeding with any plans from C on up the alphabet. Good thing we did. The cups and the frame were made from the same grade aluminum and had the same heat treat. This in turn meant the thread surfaces had near identical surface finish/topography, so when the BB was tightened to torque, those high and low surfaces interlocked to each other fast, creating a mechanical seizure between the mating parts. Keep in mind those surfaces would need to be seen under a microscope, you wouldn't see any difference, and the threads were greased properly. So, turns out ours and our customer's ignorance of this material property was at fault, and Phil has cups made from a different alloy strictly for this reason. Thankfully we didn't sell em the wares or that would've been an expensive error.
So what's that got to do with brakes? Simple. Different compounds will have a different 'grit' if you will, be it size, composition, or both. Doubt my claim? Take different grit sandpapers and rub them against each other, grit to grit. Note which ones slide easier and which ones lock up. The same grit sandpaper will damn near be impossible to rub against each other under pressure. The closer you get to the same grit, the more /easier the grit will interlock with each other, their topography matches. If you want the most consistent braking possible, replace with like or be prepared to take an orbital sander to a rotor if you don't want to replace it. Thank you for attending my Ted Talk.
That would require a helluvan aggressive abrasive and muscle. I'm not a fan of sandpaper as I don't know the composition of the adhesive and abrasive and don't want to potentially cause a contamination issue on the rotor surface resulting in poor braking characteristics. I think about how much I clean the metals I TIG when after cutting/grinding and apply the same reasoning to my rotors. Maybe I think too hard on these bits, def a possibility.
How about some good ole (glass) lapping plate and fine lapping compound? Still too much risk of having the compound getting embedded in the rotors?
Rotors are hardened steel -- you're not removing a meaningful amount of material.
That would be overkill and not necessary. The goal is to scuff up the rotor surface so the new pads can deposit themselves quickly, evenly and efficiently. You really don't need fine sanding compounds for this. Nuke it with some 99% ISO or brake clean for added peace of mind. From Hexon's TED talk, we can gather that we want to match the roughness of the pad and rotor for maximum interlocking. Lapping happens naturally when you ride the bike.
Agree that people misinterpret "sanding the rotors" as it's commonly practiced (or at least as I do it). I think of it like taking a brillo pad to a pot - very aggressive cleaning. I'm not trying to really "sand" the rotor. Just take off the most microscopic top layer of pad material and scuff it up enough to remate with new pads.
I never prep my rotors. I just run cheap 2,50 chinese resin pads and they all bite the same. To bed them in more quickly just use a few drops of water.
What you're describing is galling. A situation where a like-for-like metal will basically weld itself in the threads. Some metals are more susceptible to this than others. You can see the effect here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R54spcBn-Sk
Or here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHAhfX7iRjs
Or here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlDUqf-1XsM
The point is, galling is not relevant to brakes. Unless you're trying to use brake pads that are a billet of the same stainless steel that's used for the rotors. Then maybe.
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