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Listened when it came out, listened to it again just now. Dustin is very open on the podcast on how some of the stuff worked (and didn't work). I really hope WAO stays in business, there's only 3 carbon wheel manufacturers that actually mold their carbon fiber in NA that I know of - Enve/F&B/WAO, and WAO is by far the most affordable.
WD isn't the main sponsor. WD may actually shut down their bike division. It doesn't sell at all. They are a family owned business that doesn't need to spend money in biking. Only reason they have the bike products is to get youth brand exposure but so far if you look at their social media reach and product placement, the only thing they have in the positive is Frameworks. Hopefully one of the owners of WD really likes DH racing because i can easily see them pulling the plug on that division if they don't sell anything and just spend on race teams.
Ah yes, the BlackRock Family Owned Business (TM). There is a big giant internet out there for you to go troll. Please leave this little thread alone, if you don't mind.
Not trolling. WD-40 isn't doing well in bike. Go to any store. Do you see their product placement? They also aren't the main FW sponsor. Not sure why this pisses you off.
WD-40's bike division could be shut down. It's not a main part of their portfolio.
Do I need to search the web for an "avalanche" of evidence to convince you otherwise.
And yet people continued to query and opine about the future of WAO's bike manufacturing in the year+ since that podcast. I suppose the KBRA post is... confirmation?
I think it's confirmation that they aren't making any more frames. I'd still consider I9 a strong rumour at this point...
Via Team Rumours; did not know Gates Belt Drives was a public company on the NYSE: https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/GTES/
It’s above my pay-grade to go through their financials, but they got to be doing well if they are offering a 100k prize purse. Can anyone read into their reporting and tell us how good/bad they are doing?
Gates is massive to say the least. They make different belts for bikes, snowmobiles, cars, trucks , heavy equipment , industrial fans and drive motors. They are one of the biggest names in the industry.
I'd venture to guess Gates may have taken a bit of a hit in some areas with various industries adjusting production due to the economy, but overall I'd say they are probably doing ok..
To echo what @Robbie420 mentioned, Gates is a massive and highly profitable company, generating over $400 million in free cash flow just last quarter. They likely spend far more on their company Christmas party than on the belt drive bounty for bikes. Put another way, $100K isn't even a rounding error for a company of that scale, its almost insignificant.
Regardless of size, from my perspective, it's an interesting bet. On one hand, I’m all for incentivizing brands to adopt belt-driven gearboxes. Personally, I’m very interested in designing bikes that eliminate the conventional drivetrain altogether, even with a weight penalty. However, everyone I know who has used Pinion-like technologies says the same thing: for most riding, a derailleur is superior—better shifting under load, smoother operation, greater efficiency, lighter and cheaper.
Part of me thinks Gates might be pursuing this as a broader advertising strategy to build brand equity. Similar to what WD-40 might be doing, this could be an attempt to improve the brand's perception among a higher-income, more affluent demographic. That approach could be worthwhile even if there’s no direct correlation between the investment and measurable outcomes.
That said, I don’t think this is purely an advertising play. It seems more intentional. I noticed they recently had a job posting up for a role that involved strategizing and selling into the bicycle, powersports, and ‘big boy toy’ markets. Given Gates’ presence in the CTV market (snowmobiles, side-by-sides, etc.), it could be a great fit for someone in this forum, if the posting is still open. Digressions aside, I really wish we'd see more investment into making a gearbox that really does compete side by side with current drivetrains, but that may be like saying "I want an electric airplane that I can fly coast to coast on". It sounds great, but basically violates our current understanding of engineering, material science and battery technology. Its unicornware.
Gearbox in a casing is a great idea as it's clean, but the casing will invariably be heavy. You need to support the moving parts with a fairly strong construction. With a classic drivetrain said construction holding the parts in place also holds the rear wheel in place and enables you to ride the bike at all (i.e. it's the frame). That's problem number the one. Efficiency and compactness could be addressed with what Shimano patented (chain transfer over two cassettes essentially), but you still have the casing.
Derailleur drivetrains are really damn good.
personally, i'm of the opinion (and others seem to be as well) is that once you can mate / integrate a gearbox with an e-bike motor the floodgates would probably open up.
Pinion already has that, the MGU, and it...uhm, hasn't really taken off.
was not aware they had one, thanks for the info. perused the pinion site, aside from commuter and cargo bikes, it appears the only brands making MTBs with it are nicolai, rotwild, bulls, and some company named flyer.
https://pinion.eu/en/bike-selection/#filter=.bike-getriebe-322
I wonder why Gates hasn't tried to expand into the motorcycle market, would seem like the upside would be huge? Could save weight, be cleaner, be quieter, etc. At least on commuter bikes.
They are in the MC market. Harley, BMW, Suzuki, and Kawasaki all make belt driven bikes.
@jeff.brines - from the gates PR below - gives some hints as to their objective - i could see DH being a place to test real-world durability under extreme conditions/stresses.
Belt Drive Technology Leading the Charge in Micromobility
Gates Belt Drive technology is transforming personal and micromobility solutions worldwide. From bicycles and electric bikes to scooters and motorcycles, Gates’ innovative belt drive systems offer grease-free, rust-free, and low maintenance solutions tailored for high performance and durability. The Gates Carbon Drive system stands out as the market's best high-mileage bicycle drive, delivering exceptional reliability for urban commuters, mountain bikers, eBike riders, and casual cruisers alike.
By partnering with top downhill teams, Gates brings its materials science and engineering expertise to the forefront of the sport, challenging traditional chain-driven systems and inspiring a new era of innovation in competitive cycling. For more information about Gates Belt Drive technology or for official €100K Belted Purse contest rules, visit www.gatesbeltdrive.com. #GatesMTB100K #GatesBeltDrive
I know Harley is belt driven. As to dirt bikes, not sure. I'm sure you could make it work, but chains are just so reliable, cheap, and functional. Hell, I don't even lube my dirt bike chain (ever) and it works well over 200 hours. Crazy.
You all interested in a belt drive gearbox thread? I am tempted to take this off the rails talking about it, and I'm so curious if anyone had real world experience with them, that we'll end up in a totally different place quickly.
Paging @sspomer
Gearbox thread is a good idea
https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/hub/belt-drive-and-gearbox-thread
Trinity bikes can use Pinion GB's. But they can also use Effigear and the WRP one being developed
add simplon, tout terrain
Soft apparel but saw on another website speculation around 661
I couldn't figure out where to post this because it's not really about a company shutting down, but it also doesn't make sense in the team rumours or tech/innovation threads.
Pushy's (the Australian YT distributor) is rumoured (per a reddit comment) to not be restocking YT once the current stock is sold out. Concurrently, YT's website no longer lists Australia as a selectable region and the former au URL simply redirects to the main www one.
Assuming yt is taking over to handle it themselves like they did in America a while back now.
From an outside perspective (with absolutely no clue of internal finances) it would seem to me that YT is probably up there with Trek and Specialized as far as brands I would imagine will weather the current environment just fine. But that’s entirely speculative. They seem to be pretty smart as far as bike releases go, run a frame for a while make special “drop” versions (Uncaged models?) to bring in a little hype, and seem to keep their product overlap to a minimum.
To keep the hype speculative train going @jeff.brines what do you make of Evil bikes at this point? Seems they’ve been awful quiet lately and nothing new released in a while, lots of sales but not a lot of other hype coming out of their social media or anywhere else. Could they be struggling as well? Does anyone know if Kevin Walsh is still involved with the business?
YT used to be DtC in Australia, before signing the agreement with Pushy's a few years ago. Prices went up significantly as a result, and a friend of mine had a hell of a time getting replacement parts for a YT that he bought from Pushy's. If it really is ending, presumably it hasn't worked out for one or both parties.
Dunno, but if you're cutting costs, the marketing cost of social media hype is really cheap compared to most of the more traditional forms of marketing.
And not to forget, their bikes are often like a third of the price of other top end brands "best" models as well.
I have however noticed them equipping the latest models slightly different though, more specifically when it comes to wheels.
In the past, most of their highest core models, or uncaged models had carbon wheels. From what I can see now on their page, none of their bikes have carbon wheels. And only one bike is specced with an X0 transmission groupset, the rest has GX stuff.
Suspension components etc do still seem on the high end. But its quite noticeable that they have pulled back on speccing the best parts in every slot, as they did a few years ago with their highest core/uncaged bike.
I would still say the value is very good for the most part. I even know some people who have bought YT bikes on sale, just to take the parts of them for a new bike build, and it has been significantly cheaper than buying parts outright. Then just selling the frame for a decent price.
Don’t think kevin has been involved in a long time.
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