MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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cstone28
Posts
32
Joined
10/31/2023
Location
N/A, ON CA
1/8/2025 9:02am Edited Date/Time 1/8/2025 9:09am
Primoz wrote:

Just mount it to the chainstay if the link is on the seatstay. No issues there. 

cstone28 wrote:
Sort of removes the U from UBH if you need to have different configurations for seat stay mounting and chain stay mounting. As Johnathan mentioned as...

Sort of removes the U from UBH if you need to have different configurations for seat stay mounting and chain stay mounting. As Johnathan mentioned as long as 400 and 426 stay on the same member you can still have a pivot on the seat stay.

Primoz wrote:

Who said they have to be different? The beauty of it being mounted concentric to the axle is that you can spin it around. 

I'm not an engineer so I may be wrong on this.

Yes, 400 would be concentric to the hub but moving 426 moves 408 and 410 in a way that isn't concentric with a caliper following a rotor. For example moving 426 from a seat stay where the rotor enters and exits the caliper as we all know and love, to the chain stay means the rotor enters and exits caliper in a much more vertical path and would crash into the caliper. The center of the pistons will be in the right spot because they are rotating concentric to 400 but the angle of attack for the rotor is off. 

My simplistic thinking would lead me to believe the only way this truly becomes universal is if 400 is your datum and 426 is referenced against that datum to a very specific location. Any change in 426 location means a new adapter to get the caliper to sit in the right spot.

Am I off in my thinking?

Edit: the more I look at it the more I think you are right about it being concentric and not mattering where 426 is. 

1
ballz
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475
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Ouagadougou EH
1/8/2025 9:04am
Simcik wrote:
Looks to me like 424 goes through 428 and then thread into either the frame or a set of removable threads in the frame in location...

Looks to me like 424 goes through 428 and then thread into either the frame or a set of removable threads in the frame in location 426. That is how they plan to mount the front end of the mount to the bike.

austin-NC wrote:
Thats how I read it as well, then the mount has a pinch bolt to clamp over that big post. Everyone stating this solves "complex" brake...

Thats how I read it as well, then the mount has a pinch bolt to clamp over that big post. Everyone stating this solves "complex" brake post alignment issues, the distance/angle between 400 and 426 will be very critical.

UDH solved the issue of every bike having different and expensive hangers, we already have a universal brake mount its called posts and slotted holes on the caliper, its literally as universal as it gets you can adjust it and add spacers for different disc sizes and adjust for alignment issues. 

 

Primoz wrote:

Machining the two posts flat and perpendicular to the axle plus the threads is complicated. 

This. I once bought an Ibis with a shitty post where the bolt holes weren't perpendicular to the axle. That was my final pinkbike special. All HTs with sliding dropouts use bolt-on brake posts and they never failed me so this is two thumbs up from me.

2
Primoz
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8/1/2009
Location
SI
1/8/2025 9:36am
cstone28 wrote:
Sort of removes the U from UBH if you need to have different configurations for seat stay mounting and chain stay mounting. As Johnathan mentioned as...

Sort of removes the U from UBH if you need to have different configurations for seat stay mounting and chain stay mounting. As Johnathan mentioned as long as 400 and 426 stay on the same member you can still have a pivot on the seat stay.

Primoz wrote:

Who said they have to be different? The beauty of it being mounted concentric to the axle is that you can spin it around. 

cstone28 wrote:
I'm not an engineer so I may be wrong on this.Yes, 400 would be concentric to the hub but moving 426 moves 408 and 410 in...

I'm not an engineer so I may be wrong on this.

Yes, 400 would be concentric to the hub but moving 426 moves 408 and 410 in a way that isn't concentric with a caliper following a rotor. For example moving 426 from a seat stay where the rotor enters and exits the caliper as we all know and love, to the chain stay means the rotor enters and exits caliper in a much more vertical path and would crash into the caliper. The center of the pistons will be in the right spot because they are rotating concentric to 400 but the angle of attack for the rotor is off. 

My simplistic thinking would lead me to believe the only way this truly becomes universal is if 400 is your datum and 426 is referenced against that datum to a very specific location. Any change in 426 location means a new adapter to get the caliper to sit in the right spot.

Am I off in my thinking?

Edit: the more I look at it the more I think you are right about it being concentric and not mattering where 426 is. 

Quite a few single pivot and hardtail bikes (and Propain) have the caliper mounted between the two stays. It works perfectly fine, inserting the rotor vertically isn't an issue, there's enough space. 

The problem with that position is that it is a pain in the ass getting to the caliper bolts with an allen key and you can't see through the caliper to align it properly. Having on the top is much better for servicing. 

8
gonza.s.m.
Posts
65
Joined
6/7/2013
Location
dallas, TX US
1/8/2025 9:42am
Simcik wrote:
Looks to me like 424 goes through 428 and then thread into either the frame or a set of removable threads in the frame in location...

Looks to me like 424 goes through 428 and then thread into either the frame or a set of removable threads in the frame in location 426. That is how they plan to mount the front end of the mount to the bike.

austin-NC wrote:
Thats how I read it as well, then the mount has a pinch bolt to clamp over that big post. Everyone stating this solves "complex" brake...

Thats how I read it as well, then the mount has a pinch bolt to clamp over that big post. Everyone stating this solves "complex" brake post alignment issues, the distance/angle between 400 and 426 will be very critical.

UDH solved the issue of every bike having different and expensive hangers, we already have a universal brake mount its called posts and slotted holes on the caliper, its literally as universal as it gets you can adjust it and add spacers for different disc sizes and adjust for alignment issues. 

 

DServy wrote:
The problem is that the current "standard" of just a couple posts in the frame leaves much to be desired in terms of accuracy and convenience...

The problem is that the current "standard" of just a couple posts in the frame leaves much to be desired in terms of accuracy and convenience. Not to mention it's not an easily replaced part. If someone hamfists the threads on their brake posts then they could be in for an expensive repair. Just because we currently have something doesn't make it "good" and it's completely backwards compatible like UDH. I only see this new standard as a positive. 

There's also the benefit of (potentially) not needing to realign calipers all the effing time for every minor brake related job. 

As someone who owns a bike with a direct brake post adaptor already, I am glad to see MORE companies head that way. 

that point doesn't matter...marketing will find the way to make it better. 😅

2
gonza.s.m.
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Location
dallas, TX US
1/8/2025 9:44am
Fox working on a new Float X2 👀 post from frameworks racing

Fox working on a new Float X2 👀 post from frameworks racing


IMG 7678 0

123
3
DIGRIDEPARTY
Posts
42
Joined
10/18/2021
Location
Burlington, VT US
1/8/2025 9:45am

That patent may be the worst written and non enforceable patent ever produced by SRAM. Also it appears to have been filed in 2021 before they got their ass kicked by Fox about their Narrow Wide "invention" that was created in the 1800's on a tractor. 

5
5
1/8/2025 10:01am
Fox working on a new Float X2 👀 post from frameworks racing

Fox working on a new Float X2 👀 post from frameworks racing


IMG 7678 0

gonza.s.m. wrote:
123

Hopefully this one doesn't let air past the main seal into the damper oil. That's all I care about for the next float x2 lol

12
1/8/2025 10:29am

Hopefully this one doesn't let air past the main seal into the damper oil. That's all I care about for the next float x2 lol

That was resolved with the MY2024 changes.

6
1/8/2025 11:08am
Simcik wrote:
So SRAM is taking the UDH success to brakes...?Patent Center

So SRAM is taking the UDH success to brakes...?

Patent Center

photo

What if the whole postmount bracket in this one is the UDH-equivalent but for braking? I.e. still making it possible to mount other brands, but the next Sram brake to be mounted directly to the axle... 

 

No clue how that'd look like, but they did it on the other side already Wink  

1/8/2025 11:27am

Hopefully this one doesn't let air past the main seal into the damper oil. That's all I care about for the next float x2 lol

chriskief wrote:

That was resolved with the MY2024 changes.

Yes and no, they resolved it somewhat but the main issue is that the shaft deforms and pushes the seal out of the way, which allows air to push past. Unless they reworked the shaft in the my2024 fix, a new model with a thicker shaft that doesn't deform would make more sense. I think the pictured model might be a float x2 Neo. 

3
1/8/2025 12:04pm
Yes and no, they resolved it somewhat but the main issue is that the shaft deforms and pushes the seal out of the way, which allows...

Yes and no, they resolved it somewhat but the main issue is that the shaft deforms and pushes the seal out of the way, which allows air to push past. Unless they reworked the shaft in the my2024 fix, a new model with a thicker shaft that doesn't deform would make more sense. I think the pictured model might be a float x2 Neo. 

They reworked the damper shafts, bearing housing and seal kits. However I’m not clear on specific changes to each of those. Maybe one of the tuners on here can chime in.

Regardless, agreed there’s further room for improvement in the MY26.

1
MrDuck
Posts
71
Joined
2/2/2021
Location
CA
1/8/2025 12:28pm

Hopefully this one doesn't let air past the main seal into the damper oil. That's all I care about for the next float x2 lol

chriskief wrote:

That was resolved with the MY2024 changes.

Not according to the people who had them around here. 
X2 has been "resolved" pretty much every year, just to fail the same, 2024 included. Maybe they last a little longer but not a single 2024 model survived 2024 on my mates' bikes.

3
1/8/2025 12:38pm
chriskief wrote:
They reworked the damper shafts, bearing housing and seal kits. However I’m not clear on specific changes to each of those. Maybe one of the tuners...

They reworked the damper shafts, bearing housing and seal kits. However I’m not clear on specific changes to each of those. Maybe one of the tuners on here can chime in.

Regardless, agreed there’s further room for improvement in the MY26.

The new X2 has plenty of big architecture change's.

2
1
1/8/2025 12:44pm

Hopefully this one doesn't let air past the main seal into the damper oil. That's all I care about for the next float x2 lol

chriskief wrote:

That was resolved with the MY2024 changes.

MrDuck wrote:
Not according to the people who had them around here. X2 has been "resolved" pretty much every year, just to fail the same, 2024 included. Maybe they...

Not according to the people who had them around here. 
X2 has been "resolved" pretty much every year, just to fail the same, 2024 included. Maybe they last a little longer but not a single 2024 model survived 2024 on my mates' bikes.

Not sure how it was possibly resolved every year as they didn't make any changes from 2021-2023. Those shocks were a real mess.

Everyone in my network has had no issues with MY24-25.

1
Primoz
Posts
4555
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8/1/2009
Location
SI
1/8/2025 12:51pm
Simcik wrote:
So SRAM is taking the UDH success to brakes...?Patent Center

So SRAM is taking the UDH success to brakes...?

Patent Center

photo

Sven_Claas wrote:
What if the whole postmount bracket in this one is the UDH-equivalent but for braking? I.e. still making it possible to mount other brands, but the...

What if the whole postmount bracket in this one is the UDH-equivalent but for braking? I.e. still making it possible to mount other brands, but the next Sram brake to be mounted directly to the axle... 

 

No clue how that'd look like, but they did it on the other side already Wink  

A direct mount (200+ mm) brake seems quite bulky plus you usually have the need to align it to some degree... 

1
1/8/2025 12:56pm
Simcik wrote:
So SRAM is taking the UDH success to brakes...?Patent Center

So SRAM is taking the UDH success to brakes...?

Patent Center

photo

Sven_Claas wrote:
What if the whole postmount bracket in this one is the UDH-equivalent but for braking? I.e. still making it possible to mount other brands, but the...

What if the whole postmount bracket in this one is the UDH-equivalent but for braking? I.e. still making it possible to mount other brands, but the next Sram brake to be mounted directly to the axle... 

 

No clue how that'd look like, but they did it on the other side already Wink  

Primoz wrote:

A direct mount (200+ mm) brake seems quite bulky plus you usually have the need to align it to some degree... 

Agree, but I'm just a bit cautious this time around thinking they're introducing a new standard solely for the greater good of everyone's convenience without a hidden catch in there somewhere. 

5
Suns_PSD
Posts
360
Joined
10/7/2015
Location
Austin, TX US
1/8/2025 12:57pm
The Forbidden one is not a Sram product, it's their own design. Similar in appearance, but not the same. Lots of companies make a bolt-on mount...

The Forbidden one is not a Sram product, it's their own design. Similar in appearance, but not the same. Lots of companies make a bolt-on mount like this. 

 

I'd be stoked to see a UBM, UDH is one of the best "standards" in a long time. Misaligned shitty post mounts that aren't replaceable need to die. I want to be able to replace my hanger, brake mount, BB, headset, bearings etc at any bike shop. 

Good to know on the Forbidden. Hopefully they incorporate this new 'standard' into their upcoming E-Druid.

B Rabbit
Posts
51
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1/13/2024
Location
Sydney, NSW AU
1/8/2025 1:18pm
Domo-Kun wrote:

Word on the street the full production Specialized DH vessel is ready. Apparently it's a looker. 

Any word on the release date? I'm not in the market for a DH bike, but the sooner the DH sled is released the sooner (hopefully) we'll see a new Enduro. 

1
jonkranked
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Location
Norristown, PA US
1/8/2025 1:42pm

UHB could really open up the market for aftermarket floating brake arms. 

6
dolface
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10/26/2015
Location
CA US
1/8/2025 1:44pm
Sven_Claas wrote:
Agree, but I'm just a bit cautious this time around thinking they're introducing a new standard solely for the greater good of everyone's convenience without a...

Agree, but I'm just a bit cautious this time around thinking they're introducing a new standard solely for the greater good of everyone's convenience without a hidden catch in there somewhere. 

Curious, what's the hidden catch to UDH?

1/8/2025 1:54pm
jonkranked wrote:

UHB could really open up the market for aftermarket floating brake arms. 

It's keyed to the axle/frame I believe, so I think it may take extensive modification to become floating?

1
jonkranked
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Norristown, PA US
1/8/2025 2:07pm

It's keyed to the axle/frame I believe, so I think it may take extensive modification to become floating?

maybe, maybe not? could just have an inner sleeve to it that interfaces with the keyed portion, then a bearing sleeve that rotates around it. obviously this is all conjecture based on the patent diagrams. i'm sure someone with enough ingenuity could figure it out.

2
Nobble
Posts
226
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9/24/2010
Location
Lakewood, CO US
1/8/2025 2:40pm

The super interesting thing to me about that UBM patent is that it looks like the upper mount is floating and then secured by a pinch bolt the way some forks do.


Theoretically you’d have perfect alignment because the caliper is aligned by the hub endcap and the upper mount is just to counteract the brake torque.

8
boozed
Posts
659
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Location
AU
1/8/2025 2:59pm
Sven_Claas wrote:
Agree, but I'm just a bit cautious this time around thinking they're introducing a new standard solely for the greater good of everyone's convenience without a...

Agree, but I'm just a bit cautious this time around thinking they're introducing a new standard solely for the greater good of everyone's convenience without a hidden catch in there somewhere. 

dolface wrote:

Curious, what's the hidden catch to UDH?

Direct mount transmission.  It wasn't really a catch though (unless you like adjustable dropouts), just the ulterior motive of moving everyone to a standardised dropout design.

5
1
1/8/2025 3:13pm
cstone28 wrote:
Would this not limit frame designs from having a pivot between 400 and 426. Take the inverted 4 bar designs of a Forbidden Dreadnought for example...

Would this not limit frame designs from having a pivot between 400 and 426. Take the inverted 4 bar designs of a Forbidden Dreadnought for example. In a design like that isn't the distance between 400, and 426 going to change and not work with this? 

Primoz wrote:

Just mount it to the chainstay if the link is on the seatstay. No issues there. 

And Splitpivot?

1
dolface
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CA US
1/8/2025 3:51pm
Sven_Claas wrote:
Agree, but I'm just a bit cautious this time around thinking they're introducing a new standard solely for the greater good of everyone's convenience without a...

Agree, but I'm just a bit cautious this time around thinking they're introducing a new standard solely for the greater good of everyone's convenience without a hidden catch in there somewhere. 

dolface wrote:

Curious, what's the hidden catch to UDH?

boozed wrote:

Direct mount transmission.  It wasn't really a catch though (unless you like adjustable dropouts), just the ulterior motive of moving everyone to a standardised dropout design.

Yah ok, I wouldn't call that a catch either, and UDH seems like a win all around even tho SRAM had an ulterior motive...

3
BBaldwin
Posts
4
Joined
4/16/2016
Location
Folsom, CA US
1/8/2025 4:06pm
Sven_Claas wrote:
Agree, but I'm just a bit cautious this time around thinking they're introducing a new standard solely for the greater good of everyone's convenience without a...

Agree, but I'm just a bit cautious this time around thinking they're introducing a new standard solely for the greater good of everyone's convenience without a hidden catch in there somewhere. 

dolface wrote:

Curious, what's the hidden catch to UDH?

boozed wrote:

Direct mount transmission.  It wasn't really a catch though (unless you like adjustable dropouts), just the ulterior motive of moving everyone to a standardised dropout design.

You are right, but I also think most companies were trying to make their current frames work with the UDH and not come up with a long-term solution. There is no way you cannot have both. 

2
jonkranked
Posts
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Location
Norristown, PA US
1/8/2025 5:13pm
cstone28 wrote:
Would this not limit frame designs from having a pivot between 400 and 426. Take the inverted 4 bar designs of a Forbidden Dreadnought for example...

Would this not limit frame designs from having a pivot between 400 and 426. Take the inverted 4 bar designs of a Forbidden Dreadnought for example. In a design like that isn't the distance between 400, and 426 going to change and not work with this? 

Primoz wrote:

Just mount it to the chainstay if the link is on the seatstay. No issues there. 

DorianKane wrote:

And Splitpivot?

I reckon either stay would work. The pivot & bearing would have to increase in diameter to accommodate the sleeve. 

2
Primoz
Posts
4555
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8/1/2009
Location
SI
1/8/2025 9:21pm

Considering split pivot was made to work with UDH, I guess this would work too. 

Considering the way split pivot is designed (4-bar braking wise, brake mounted to seatstay) the UBM would have to be mounted to the seatstay, otherwise it would be a normal single pivot. 

As for floating brake mounts, mounting UBM in a bearing should cover most of it, I'm only curious if it is bulky enough to handle being a floating arm... 

As for fixation, I have another question or doubt. It's a pinch bolt (with an elongated hole by the looks of it to cover the tolerances) which makes it adaptable. But, if the post is inside the diameter of the rotor (at least the larger sizes), it is limited in length it can protrude from the chainstay. Then unless the post is flared at the end, I am wondering if the UBM can pop off it if the seatstay bends out of the way. 

Having the UBM mounted mostly to the axle is great as theoretically you'll always have alignment to the hub and rotor, but if it's at the expense of it popping off the torque carrier (post), that's not really ideal... And even if it doesn't pop off, I'm wondering if the post and pinchbolt interface might get worn through time. 

2
1
1/8/2025 11:53pm

Some thoughts regarding that USD-fork-rumor: back when Fox decided against their USD-proto entering series production, they explained they couldn’t make it stiff enough without making it extra heavy with the current-for-that-time tech available. But that was, I think, the time when they were raving about having the stiffest dh-fork on the market - a feat that ended up being not so perfect as some needed flex proved to be beneficial to the riding feel. Since then they’ve incorporated some into their forks, production technologies have made incredible leaps since, so putting 2+2, my bet is on Fox trying to USD-fy their 40 for the second time! Smile

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