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The Vital MTB Crew
I had wondered about a 2-stage braking system where the lever first engages a dynamo-style hub that harvests some energy and provides light braking without using the discs, then pulling further activates the regular brakes. Then the rider gets control over the front/rear split, or only use it on the rear wheel if thats better. Could be a way to control speed on descents which people would often drag their brakes without cooking the brake system. Should be easier to integrate with regular mid mount motors and drivetrains?
With the dropper cabling conundrum - why aren't cables integrated in to the tubes from the factory? You could literally weave them in to the carbon. A kind of standardised (oh wait, theres the problem........) harness or connector could provide a link from the bars to the back end without a mess of cables in the way. Plug in whichever components you need at the back and the front end would have dedicated pinouts for each controller. If you don't want to use it they won't be in the way.
Another idea for the dropper post is 2 strips down the front and back seat tube with spring contacts on the post so theres no wires but still a physical contact? Weatherproofing to prevent a short might be a problem but it allows the post to be at any height and the connector always makes contact.
Sorry sometime I confuse "tech rumours" with "random crap I think of and don't have anywhere else to write about it"
There's a good number of e-bike motor manufacturers out there trying to get into the market. There's a good reason why you predominantly see Shimano and Bosch on full-power, and the reasoning is exactly what you said.
Second on the concerns with long term support. Given what we've seen from the road world with Chinese electronic drivetrains, their views on product releases and updates are very different from how most Western consumers look at it. I think Ltwoo were selling 3 different iterations of their flagship drivetrain at the same time under the same name, and the consumers had no idea that there were differences or updates. Not saying it's going to be the same with the DJI motor being an OEM product, but I definitely would not be the guy to jump on them early.
All of this screams of industry wide standardisation. Talking about it screams about the need for a industry standardisation working group...
couldn't a North American company come up with a similar or better system than DJI? I would think NA is more technically advanced than China but maybe not in the electrical realm?
I don't know where you get the idea that NA is more technologically advanced than China. At least on the electric car front, China's putting out better products than the US or Germany from what I've read.
Yeah unsurprisingly when you outsource all of your technology production for 30 or 40 years, those people get really really good at it...... especially when it comes to manufacturing something to a price. I'm sure a lot of western companies could build a great competitor to DJI but it might cost about three times as much! Are people willing to pay that much for something just because it isn't Chinese? We also forget that products made in China aren't sometimes bad because of where they are made, they are bad because they were made to a spec and a price that their (probably american) company wanted.
The problem with jumping on an ebike with a new motor from a new (to MTB ) company is all the unknowns when it comes to support, regardless of where it was designed or built. Ebike motors and batteries are not like other bike components - if your bike comes with a sexy sounding new shock that turns out to be unreliable, you can replace it with another brand. You can't do that with batteries or motors (yet).
This is a real concern since none of the existing motor/battery manufacturers have a perfect track record. Even if you get an ebike from a brand that has really great warranty support (like Santa Cruz), when it comes to motor/battery issues they will pass you or your dealer off to the motor's warranty/support department. If that's dodgy or slow or has no spare parts available, you could be waiting months to get issues resolved. If the motor company goes belly up, or stops making parts available, then your expensive ebike instantly turns into a collection of parts. I just recently saw a guy on the local buy/sell thread trying to unload parts from his dead 2021 Kinevo because it costs more to replace the dead motor than the complete bike would be worth over the value of the parts... and that's just 3 years old.
Not sure about the current state, but apparently the middrives from Bosch, Brose and SL units from Specialized were all based on automotive BLDC motors with some adaptations. I think it was a case of an electric water pump, an electric power steering motor and the like being reused.
This was done to reuse the stamping tools for the stator and rotor as in the beginning the investment didn't make as much sense or the reuse was a more cost optimal option. Not sure what the state is like today, but it's possible they went to more custom built motors with later generations. But yeah, to do what DJI did I'd say it would require optimizing EVERYTHING. At least to get the power to weight ratio they apparently have. And throw around some different concepts and evaluate them thoroughly as the choice of motor (torque vs. speed levels) and the resulting gearbox can likely have a big influence as well because of losses in the gearbox, forces in the bearing supports which influence the casing design, etc.
So its Ohlins, right? unless I'm missing something, only Fox, Ohlins, Formula, and BOS make both MTB and other suspension products, so that's who it's gotta be
EXT also:
lol
Do we count WP since they are on those crappy GasGas Ebikes? I know its just a more complex DVO Jade X, but I mean, its more than the difference between Fox and Marz I guess?
https://www.mtbr.com/threads/bikeyoke-wireless.1233215/page-2?post_id=1…
Rumoring is a dirty business; you're welcome.
tough crowd
The rest of the Telum vids just went public on their yt.
Of all the standards that could potentially happen, I hope a standard motor mounting pattern will happen, or at least shrink the pattern down to 2 or 3 different patterns depending on the motor. (EU USB-C law where you at?)
As a consumer I would be worried about a company like DJI, or even smaller 3rd party motor makers not seeing sales where they want and cut off production, leaving me SOL except to the frame maker if I was to have issues.
If I was a product manager or designer in the bike world, it'd be a similar concern, but in the R&D cost side. Why sink $$$ into designing a frame for a motor that may be out of production in 2-3 years? Would likely just go Shimano, Bosch or SRAM motors at that point.
vorsprung's telum deep dive press release and vids here (thanks to them for uploading it!)
https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/vorsprung-telum-deep-dive-and-how-custom-tune-it-minutes-using-rapid-revalve
Yeup… just as I suspected… looks like a rear shock
I see a rear probe.
Madrone Jab derailleur pre-orders open:
https://madronecycles.com/products/jab-derailleur
Some tech pulled from Ohlins and refined. His oval shim clamp that allows the the retune is an expansion on the variable diameter shim clamp Ohlins uses. Sounds like he has given it a broader range of adjustment and ability to better control it with the worm drive screw.
A 2020 NSMB article where Steve retunes a TTX18 and specifically comments on it. https://nsmb.com/articles/%C3%B6hlins-rxf-36-m2-spring-swap/
Back in the old days you could mix and match drivetrain parts to your hearts content. These days that's a thing very few people do, integration and systemisation is the name of the game.
While having a standard motor bolt pattern (that would define the spindle location too, obviously) would be great, but then you'd need to standardise the battery mounting/size and communication to motor too. And possible controls. Or something along those lines.
I'm afraid it's more likely we are going to see more and more integration (more margin for the bike brand) vs. more standardisation.
Looks like there might be some issues with the BikeYoke wireless dropper
https://www.mtbr.com/threads/bikeyoke-wireless.1233215/page-2?post_id=1…
Probably because Sacki is a whiny baby, I would loathe to develop something with him too...
And if it continues, Shimano and Bosch will continue to be the main motor suppliers brands will work with. Sad, I would really like to try out a DJI motor. Might have to see if Forbidden will run any demos near me once they're out.
Took a gander at loics post, the dh bike that you can see behind the mechanic has a different headtube, not a silver lugged one like the previous prototype bike has. My guess is production frame, as it's most likely carbon or aluminum.
There is also an enduro bike pictured in the background, would be cool if specialized updated that frame as it's about time.