Poll: Electric shifting vs mechanical shifting

jonkranked
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Norristown, PA US
7/29/2024 1:21pm

"Electronic shifting is so much more precise than mechanical" 

When was the last time you lubed your chain or measured it for stretch? 

"Measured my what now?"

i made this earlier today bc some folks on ridemonkey were arguing about types of lube

1722261700860.png

8
7/29/2024 3:17pm

"Electronic shifting is so much more precise than mechanical" 

When was the last time you lubed your chain or measured it for stretch? 

"Measured my what now?"

jonkranked wrote:
i made this earlier today bc some folks on ridemonkey were arguing about types of lube

i made this earlier today bc some folks on ridemonkey were arguing about types of lube

1722261700860.png

reminds me of people complaining that 35mm bars are too stiff but they are the 3rd owner of a fork thats never been serviced

3
jeff h
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Colorado Springs, CO US
7/29/2024 3:46pm Edited Date/Time 7/29/2024 3:47pm

Call me uncultured, but it seems that electronic shifting could only maybe improve the part of the ride that I could care least about: getting to the top. Sure, my experience is different than some given the topography of where I call home, but to get to the top, I maybe use a few different smaller gears, pedal hard, and often don’t shift much until it’s time to descend. The rate at which those shifts take place doesn’t really matter as long as they happen as they should, given the drivetrain I have. Once gravity takes over, I shift into the high gears and before long I’m back at the car. Point being, the mechanical shifting on my bike works as it was intended and hasn’t let me down, and that frees up money to spend on other things that make the fun part of the ride, well, more fun. 

4
bizutch
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Fletcher, NC US
7/29/2024 4:15pm

So nobody wants to answer my question about electronic shifting once it gets worn or sloppy or binds or just flat out old?
Like...how are you supposed to adjust it on the fly on a ride when it's clunking/grinding/skipping like you do a mechanical?

1
LePigPen
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Harbor City, CA US
7/29/2024 4:45pm

a) i want my bikes as cheap and simple and lightweight as possible. and i understand it will probly be on most bikes in the future but still... for now just having all the things on an MTB is complex to me, a former BMXer, and I don't want more things to think about

b) In terms of expensive upgrades and budgeting a nice bike build, I value carbon rims and nice brakes much more than something like wireless shifting. I feel like brands are happy to throw wireless shifting on a bike that has alloy rims and basic Codes and shit... I guess its gimmicky in a way and I hate that particularly when drivetrain is a place you can save a LOT of money. friggin Deore is good enough for most riders. Advent X is decent enough for like average beginners riders and such. quality wheels or brakes would go a LONG way to improve a riding experience before wireless shifting and dropper...

2
az2au
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Scottsdale, AZ US
7/29/2024 5:46pm
bizutch wrote:
So nobody wants to answer my question about electronic shifting once it gets worn or sloppy or binds or just flat out old?Like...how are you supposed...

So nobody wants to answer my question about electronic shifting once it gets worn or sloppy or binds or just flat out old?
Like...how are you supposed to adjust it on the fly on a ride when it's clunking/grinding/skipping like you do a mechanical?

I want to make it clear that I’m not answering this sarcastically. Here’s why: The answer is that I don’t have a great answer because it just hasn’t happened.  I have one XX SL drivetrain with almost 1800 miles on it and it has worked flawlessly the entire time. The rest of mine have far less and one did have the weird 3rd gear issue which resolved itself but admittedly wasn’t something I could just solve. It was annoying for sure and I did have a Flight Attedant shock have the battery contact issue (SRAM warrantied it within a couple of weeks) and that was also annoying because I couldn’t just fix it. These complaints are completely valid in my eyes and I cannot blame anyone for not wanting to potentially having to deal with them but…


Since I switched to almost exclusively using Transmission my entire time trying to adjust stuff or fix weird shifting problems has gone to ~0 vs the annoyance of always needing to tinker with cable stuff every time there was a little contact with a boulder or similar. 

That 1800 mile drivetrain had the chain replaced at 1500 miles even though I could not detect enough stretch to justify it. Simply did it out of precaution. 

So, yeah, there isn’t a good answer and I still maintain that you should be able to use cable actuated shifting. There are cases where I would. However, for 99.9% of riders who have no effing prayer of fixing anything on their bikes, let alone using/owning a HAG or similar, Transmission is superior in every way. It is for me as well because I can acknowledge the downsides that are possible and still appreciate it for what it is. 

Some people seem to be making the argument against old AXS. I liked it but had the same problems as cable plus additional potential issues like you mention. To me it was far less compelling and I didn’t and wouldn’t make the same arguments. 

I say this as someone that knows how to install and maintain a cable actuated derailleur, has used a hangar alignment guide or homemade versions tons of times, buys bikes as frames only whenever possible, keeps detailed mileage records and maintains their suspension and chain (admittedly I wax my chains) plus every other part and does all of their own work outside of full suspension services/rebuilds. Oh and loves to work on the bikes I own. Just figured I’d kill all of the other assumptions about people who prefer transmission while I’m here. Anyway…

Back your question. There is no good answer because you are right. It can and surely does go wrong for some people who know what they are doing and there is no recourse. In several thousand miles (all told) I just haven’t seen it and have had to do far less so I don’t feel that way but probably would if I had. If you know what you are doing and don’t mind that tinkering then you definitely shouldn’t use it. Most don’t and can’t and are fare better off with Transmission from what I’ve seen with the guys I ride with (useless at fixing anything and mostly unwilling to learn). I’ll even go one step further and say that I get why bike shop mechanics might hate it because they can’t do crap about it either most of the time. 

Basically almost everyone in this thread is right as far as I can tell and yet some of us have vastly different opinions…


I think it can be universally agreed that it sucks when people aren’t given the options though. 

2
858to253
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Bonney Lake, WA US
7/29/2024 5:49pm
I'm too much of a cheapskate when it comes to derailleurs. Yeah they've gotten tougher and I'm sure UDH helps, but one wrong move and your...

I'm too much of a cheapskate when it comes to derailleurs. Yeah they've gotten tougher and I'm sure UDH helps, but one wrong move and your $400 AXS derailleur (retail) is smoked, where as an 11 speed XT derailleur is $110 retail, and I you can find them a heck of a lot cheaper than that. Cool that rebuild kits are available on the new T type, but still pricy though. I've bought slightly used XTs for $25, as well as a combo 11 speed GX shifter/derailleur for $50.

I love the idea of one less cable and the consistent shifting, but there are so many other parts I find value in spending extra on. I'm a luddite, still on 1x11 and don't plan on going to 12, let along electronic shifting. 

This echos my thoughts pretty well.  I ran AXS for a while, was never quite as perfect as I thought should be—which was probably my bad mechanic skills. I’d be interested in trying out Transmission, but I worry about destroying something on a MTB trip and being out of luck for remaining time of the trip. 

I love the fact that with my mechanical Shimano set up, I can easily keep a Deore derailleur and shifter in my spares kit without feeling like its wasting $$$. It’ came in handy when I had a shifter explode on my last trip. I kept a mechanical back-up like this with when running AXS, but this doesn’t seem to be a (financially) responsible decision with Transmission.   

1
7/29/2024 5:49pm Edited Date/Time 7/29/2024 5:51pm
bizutch wrote:
So nobody wants to answer my question about electronic shifting once it gets worn or sloppy or binds or just flat out old?Like...how are you supposed...

So nobody wants to answer my question about electronic shifting once it gets worn or sloppy or binds or just flat out old?
Like...how are you supposed to adjust it on the fly on a ride when it's clunking/grinding/skipping like you do a mechanical?

I've been running XO1 AXS shifter and derailleur with XT cassette and chain for almost 2 years. 

The only time I've had to mess with it at all is when I switched it over to a new bike. 

Works great and zero issues. I swap between 2 batteries, fresh one goes in at the beginning of the month and haven't had any issues with battery life. I average between 100-150 miles per month.

I have ended up replacing a chain about once a year due to doing dumb stuff or random chance. But haven't really worn a chain out. I use Silca super secret and just wipe the chain clean after rides, relube when I start to hear it. 

BlownOutRides
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San Francisco, CA US
7/29/2024 6:43pm
Mugen wrote:
Regular pedal bike: 30t front on full 29er, although admitedly as I approach 40y old and ride a lot less, I could not climb with a...

Regular pedal bike: 30t front on full 29er, although admitedly as I approach 40y old and ride a lot less, I could not climb with a 36t out back like I used to. 

Obviously it's not the same, but 32 front on the Ebike in turbo rarely needs anything larger than 40t out back. (80kg unfit rider). My argument is mostly for shorter derailleurs for ebikes, but I'm pretty sure I will get a pinion MGU or competing gearbox in the next 3 years anyway.

(edited for clarity)

I feel like there’s an argument for a 10sp ebike specific drivetrain with a burlier chain. Positive I’ve never seen that 52t cog on the eeb and it’s possible I haven’t touched the 44t either.

boozed
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AU
7/29/2024 7:11pm

on a side note, mechanical shifting won gold for both men's and women's Olympics.

Mechanical shifting and electronic suspension.  What a topsy-turvy world we live in!

5
Primoz
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SI
7/29/2024 10:25pm

"Electronic shifting is so much more precise than mechanical" 

When was the last time you lubed your chain or measured it for stretch? 

"Measured my what now?"

jonkranked wrote:
i made this earlier today bc some folks on ridemonkey were arguing about types of lube

i made this earlier today bc some folks on ridemonkey were arguing about types of lube

1722261700860.png

reminds me of people complaining that 35mm bars are too stiff but they are the 3rd owner of a fork thats never been serviced

35 mm can be soft.

7/30/2024 12:47am

i´m on a Di2 XT linkglide on my E-Bie and couldn´t be more happy,just have to check the bike battery,no extra chargers or spare batterys,never miss a shift and you could ride hard and shift at the same time ,i use auto shift for commuting to the trails and irt´s cool.

1
bizutch
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Fletcher, NC US
7/30/2024 5:51am
bizutch wrote:
So nobody wants to answer my question about electronic shifting once it gets worn or sloppy or binds or just flat out old?Like...how are you supposed...

So nobody wants to answer my question about electronic shifting once it gets worn or sloppy or binds or just flat out old?
Like...how are you supposed to adjust it on the fly on a ride when it's clunking/grinding/skipping like you do a mechanical?

az2au wrote:
I want to make it clear that I’m not answering this sarcastically. Here’s why: The answer is that I don’t have a great answer because it...

I want to make it clear that I’m not answering this sarcastically. Here’s why: The answer is that I don’t have a great answer because it just hasn’t happened.  I have one XX SL drivetrain with almost 1800 miles on it and it has worked flawlessly the entire time. The rest of mine have far less and one did have the weird 3rd gear issue which resolved itself but admittedly wasn’t something I could just solve. It was annoying for sure and I did have a Flight Attedant shock have the battery contact issue (SRAM warrantied it within a couple of weeks) and that was also annoying because I couldn’t just fix it. These complaints are completely valid in my eyes and I cannot blame anyone for not wanting to potentially having to deal with them but…


Since I switched to almost exclusively using Transmission my entire time trying to adjust stuff or fix weird shifting problems has gone to ~0 vs the annoyance of always needing to tinker with cable stuff every time there was a little contact with a boulder or similar. 

That 1800 mile drivetrain had the chain replaced at 1500 miles even though I could not detect enough stretch to justify it. Simply did it out of precaution. 

So, yeah, there isn’t a good answer and I still maintain that you should be able to use cable actuated shifting. There are cases where I would. However, for 99.9% of riders who have no effing prayer of fixing anything on their bikes, let alone using/owning a HAG or similar, Transmission is superior in every way. It is for me as well because I can acknowledge the downsides that are possible and still appreciate it for what it is. 

Some people seem to be making the argument against old AXS. I liked it but had the same problems as cable plus additional potential issues like you mention. To me it was far less compelling and I didn’t and wouldn’t make the same arguments. 

I say this as someone that knows how to install and maintain a cable actuated derailleur, has used a hangar alignment guide or homemade versions tons of times, buys bikes as frames only whenever possible, keeps detailed mileage records and maintains their suspension and chain (admittedly I wax my chains) plus every other part and does all of their own work outside of full suspension services/rebuilds. Oh and loves to work on the bikes I own. Just figured I’d kill all of the other assumptions about people who prefer transmission while I’m here. Anyway…

Back your question. There is no good answer because you are right. It can and surely does go wrong for some people who know what they are doing and there is no recourse. In several thousand miles (all told) I just haven’t seen it and have had to do far less so I don’t feel that way but probably would if I had. If you know what you are doing and don’t mind that tinkering then you definitely shouldn’t use it. Most don’t and can’t and are fare better off with Transmission from what I’ve seen with the guys I ride with (useless at fixing anything and mostly unwilling to learn). I’ll even go one step further and say that I get why bike shop mechanics might hate it because they can’t do crap about it either most of the time. 

Basically almost everyone in this thread is right as far as I can tell and yet some of us have vastly different opinions…


I think it can be universally agreed that it sucks when people aren’t given the options though. 

But you live in the dust clouds of the southwest. My chain literally rusted twice last week on drives home from absolute downpours.

1
matmattmatthew
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Fresh Prince of Bel Air, MD US
7/30/2024 6:50am

I've had Transmission on 2 different bikes for about a year and I love it!  I'm a sucker for new tech and have been riding for 25+ years so most of my bikes have either top-tier parts or one step down.  I feel like transmission is the best shifting I've ever ridden, I've found myself shifting more on techy climbs than I would have in the past because transmission seems like it actually shifts better under load and in chunky terrain.  I also recently experienced overload clutch for the first time.  I was riding in Vermont and rode around a large rock face and cut the turn too sharp, I felt the overload do its thing and move, then go back to the gear I was in.  

1
Knightrider
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Boulder, CO US
7/30/2024 6:54am

Where's the option that says: I hate derailleurs equally no matter the actuation power source. 

11
bizutch
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Fletcher, NC US
7/30/2024 8:06am

Where's the option that says: I hate derailleurs equally no matter the actuation power source. 

Could I interest you in a Ford Freestyle w/ it's state of the art continuously variable transmission ?
A Nissan Rogue with it's ever so "reliable" CVT? 

image 10
 

3
owl-x
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Shell Beach, CA US
7/30/2024 9:22am
bizutch wrote:
So nobody wants to answer my question about electronic shifting once it gets worn or sloppy or binds or just flat out old?Like...how are you supposed...

So nobody wants to answer my question about electronic shifting once it gets worn or sloppy or binds or just flat out old?
Like...how are you supposed to adjust it on the fly on a ride when it's clunking/grinding/skipping like you do a mechanical?

az2au wrote:
I want to make it clear that I’m not answering this sarcastically. Here’s why: The answer is that I don’t have a great answer because it...

I want to make it clear that I’m not answering this sarcastically. Here’s why: The answer is that I don’t have a great answer because it just hasn’t happened.  I have one XX SL drivetrain with almost 1800 miles on it and it has worked flawlessly the entire time. The rest of mine have far less and one did have the weird 3rd gear issue which resolved itself but admittedly wasn’t something I could just solve. It was annoying for sure and I did have a Flight Attedant shock have the battery contact issue (SRAM warrantied it within a couple of weeks) and that was also annoying because I couldn’t just fix it. These complaints are completely valid in my eyes and I cannot blame anyone for not wanting to potentially having to deal with them but…


Since I switched to almost exclusively using Transmission my entire time trying to adjust stuff or fix weird shifting problems has gone to ~0 vs the annoyance of always needing to tinker with cable stuff every time there was a little contact with a boulder or similar. 

That 1800 mile drivetrain had the chain replaced at 1500 miles even though I could not detect enough stretch to justify it. Simply did it out of precaution. 

So, yeah, there isn’t a good answer and I still maintain that you should be able to use cable actuated shifting. There are cases where I would. However, for 99.9% of riders who have no effing prayer of fixing anything on their bikes, let alone using/owning a HAG or similar, Transmission is superior in every way. It is for me as well because I can acknowledge the downsides that are possible and still appreciate it for what it is. 

Some people seem to be making the argument against old AXS. I liked it but had the same problems as cable plus additional potential issues like you mention. To me it was far less compelling and I didn’t and wouldn’t make the same arguments. 

I say this as someone that knows how to install and maintain a cable actuated derailleur, has used a hangar alignment guide or homemade versions tons of times, buys bikes as frames only whenever possible, keeps detailed mileage records and maintains their suspension and chain (admittedly I wax my chains) plus every other part and does all of their own work outside of full suspension services/rebuilds. Oh and loves to work on the bikes I own. Just figured I’d kill all of the other assumptions about people who prefer transmission while I’m here. Anyway…

Back your question. There is no good answer because you are right. It can and surely does go wrong for some people who know what they are doing and there is no recourse. In several thousand miles (all told) I just haven’t seen it and have had to do far less so I don’t feel that way but probably would if I had. If you know what you are doing and don’t mind that tinkering then you definitely shouldn’t use it. Most don’t and can’t and are fare better off with Transmission from what I’ve seen with the guys I ride with (useless at fixing anything and mostly unwilling to learn). I’ll even go one step further and say that I get why bike shop mechanics might hate it because they can’t do crap about it either most of the time. 

Basically almost everyone in this thread is right as far as I can tell and yet some of us have vastly different opinions…


I think it can be universally agreed that it sucks when people aren’t given the options though. 

bizutch wrote:

But you live in the dust clouds of the southwest. My chain literally rusted twice last week on drives home from absolute downpours.

My GX AXS has a trim function you can do on-trail…like 15 clicks of a barrel adjuster either direction. Seems like one or two mini bzzts quiets most rubbing. Nearing 2000 miles on it and it’s working way better than any cable actuated GX would be. It actually has some mushy shifts, I definitely have a few bent teeth and a mismatched Shimano chain. So it feels very familiar. There are a couple “click up twice and down once” shifts in there. 
I lost a clip on one of the main posts—sram hating bolts as a way of life—and I thought the whole thing was roasted after I ripped a hanger off…but no: put it back on and it’s still. 
T Type seems less adjustable but I haven’t had it yet to screw it up. 
All these miles were in wet northwest trails where my bikes are quiet. I don’t know how to maintain a bike in dry conditions. 
So yeah. There’s some old style jiggling the handle moves still available for all the cool fonzies out there!

 

owl-x
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Shell Beach, CA US
7/30/2024 9:24am

Where's the option that says: I hate derailleurs equally no matter the actuation power source. 

amen. 

1
parnifel
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CH
7/30/2024 9:36am

Here‘s something to consider..during the Womens XCO Olympic race..Sina Frei finished P21 because she lost her AXS Battery..after winning bronze in Tokyo and getting the spot from Jolanda Neff..I dont care how good Transmission is - losing a battery must sting, especially at a race like the Olympics!!

3
7/30/2024 9:40am Edited Date/Time 7/30/2024 10:06am

Performance wise it is better, however i’m not a racer, and not chasing KOM’s, for me as a consumer, i’m ok with ok performance that i need to service once a year or less.


I primarily ride park/dj so shifting is the last priority for me


As for ebikes, still waiting when u can tap it in main battery 

Suns_PSD
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Location
Austin, TX US
7/30/2024 10:13am

I had managed to get the old AXS before it was commercially available (by like 6 weeks, so no big deal) and it's been on various bikes over the years and only ruined 3-4 rides, over a several year period. Unfortunately, that was 3-4 too many times, for what amounts to a .02% better shifting quality.

Also, I rented a bike with Transmission last week, and honestly, it's shifting was amazing. 

That said, I'll be sticking with mechanical shifting on all 3 of my bikes. It's not about $ for me, it's about dead nut's reliability and weight and mechanical is just better in this regard.

Oddly enough, I love my e-bike, but it has a mechanical 11 speed on it.

1
7/30/2024 1:10pm

Is Di2 on a non-Shimano ebike possible? can it be independently powered by a small battery, like the OG Di2?

bizutch
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Fletcher, NC US
7/30/2024 1:31pm
parnifel wrote:
Here‘s something to consider..during the Womens XCO Olympic race..Sina Frei finished P21 because she lost her AXS Battery..after winning bronze in Tokyo and getting the spot...

Here‘s something to consider..during the Womens XCO Olympic race..Sina Frei finished P21 because she lost her AXS Battery..after winning bronze in Tokyo and getting the spot from Jolanda Neff..I dont care how good Transmission is - losing a battery must sting, especially at a race like the Olympics!!

Bike mechanics who can't drill wire ties into vital parts.  Must bug the crap out of them.

pnguyen3
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Location
Santa Ana, CA US
7/30/2024 1:44pm

I have 2 AXS (GX & XO) and ran Transmission enough to definitely get the hype. But mechanical tactile feel and the ability to quickly shift multiple gears with one stroke.. is for me. XT shift/deraileur combo is the way to go. I love the price, reliability and don't care if it takes a beating. 

1
brash
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AU
7/30/2024 2:57pm

my old bike with Di2, I appreciated if you smashed the mech hard enough and it was shifting shit you could put it into adjust mode, turn the cranks a few times and it would index the gears for you, hear some whirring of the mech motor and in 20 seconds you are back. It would even correct for a visibly bent hanger. Pretty cool.

My new bike got XTR, and it shifts and feels just as good, but needs a bit of fine tuning. Di2 shifts like XTR but you don't have to do a thing. 

az2au
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Location
Scottsdale, AZ US
7/31/2024 1:32am
Performance wise it is better, however i’m not a racer, and not chasing KOM’s, for me as a consumer, i’m ok with ok performance that i...

Performance wise it is better, however i’m not a racer, and not chasing KOM’s, for me as a consumer, i’m ok with ok performance that i need to service once a year or less.


I primarily ride park/dj so shifting is the last priority for me


As for ebikes, still waiting when u can tap it in main battery 

 

There are multiple e-bikes that allow this already, e.g. Transition Repeater PT

Primoz
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SI
7/31/2024 1:48am
brash wrote:
my old bike with Di2, I appreciated if you smashed the mech hard enough and it was shifting shit you could put it into adjust mode...

my old bike with Di2, I appreciated if you smashed the mech hard enough and it was shifting shit you could put it into adjust mode, turn the cranks a few times and it would index the gears for you, hear some whirring of the mech motor and in 20 seconds you are back. It would even correct for a visibly bent hanger. Pretty cool.

My new bike got XTR, and it shifts and feels just as good, but needs a bit of fine tuning. Di2 shifts like XTR but you don't have to do a thing. 

With how 12spd (and 1x11 speed Sram) are designed, hanger straightness is paramount for shifting performance. No barrel adjuster turning can compensate a bent hanger. This was not the case with older designs that didn't have the upper pulley offset from the cage pivot. 

2
bizutch
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Fletcher, NC US
7/31/2024 6:49am Edited Date/Time 7/31/2024 6:49am
brash wrote:
my old bike with Di2, I appreciated if you smashed the mech hard enough and it was shifting shit you could put it into adjust mode...

my old bike with Di2, I appreciated if you smashed the mech hard enough and it was shifting shit you could put it into adjust mode, turn the cranks a few times and it would index the gears for you, hear some whirring of the mech motor and in 20 seconds you are back. It would even correct for a visibly bent hanger. Pretty cool.

My new bike got XTR, and it shifts and feels just as good, but needs a bit of fine tuning. Di2 shifts like XTR but you don't have to do a thing. 

Good to know. Cheap skate me, who was plenty happy with 11 speed Deore 11-51 mated to Deore derailleur & XT shifter just bought a full XT drivetrain w/ chain for $250 and it arrives today.

7/31/2024 7:58am Edited Date/Time 7/31/2024 7:58am
az2au wrote:

 

There are multiple e-bikes that allow this already, e.g. Transition Repeater PT

I do think sram transmission /axs allow that, never saw adapter to tap into main power source instead of battery on der

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