The other site is reporting that Neko is experimenting with a steel front triangle again. The last interview I saw with him about the Cotic made one, he laughingly said, "ya that frame was comfortable, thats for sure" and in the context I think he was saying it was too flexy. This new one has different tubing sizes and lugs. Did he find a way to stiffen up steel, did he also break those epoxy frames and is sick of breaking/cracking triangles, or something else entirely?
The other site is reporting that Neko is experimenting with a steel front triangle again. The last interview I saw with him about the Cotic made...
The other site is reporting that Neko is experimenting with a steel front triangle again. The last interview I saw with him about the Cotic made one, he laughingly said, "ya that frame was comfortable, thats for sure" and in the context I think he was saying it was too flexy. This new one has different tubing sizes and lugs. Did he find a way to stiffen up steel, did he also break those epoxy frames and is sick of breaking/cracking triangles, or something else entirely?
Maybe a cost-savings?
I can't guess what the internal gauge or butting profile is on the new Frameworks steel tubes, but they're visibly larger in outer diameter. Outer diameter of tubing is the #1 determinant of frame stiffness, which is why aluminum frames are typically stiffer than their steel and titanium counterparts- aluminum frames almost always use bigger diameter tube sets. The same is true for carbon (mostly), and carbon tube diameters are often all over the map on the same frameset to yield different stiffness or compliance in different parts of the bike, i.e. smaller diameter for seatstays and top tubes, bigger diameter for chainstays and downtubes. Look at a fancy carbon road bike and the downtube is typically 5-ish times bigger in diameter than the seatstays.
The Cotic built frame used 38.1 mm of tubes for tt/st/dt. The dt being the same one they used on their Rocket Max. This new front end was built by Adam Prosise (formerly worked for Reeb now building stuff out of his own shop under Prosise Metal Works). I would guess that he used the Velospec 44.5mm tube with a 1-.7-.9 butting or Fairing also makes a 44.5mm .9 straight gauge tube. That is the beefiest commercial available tube of reasonable weight. Next bigger option would be to internally relieve a 50.8mm 1.2mm tube on a lathe. I would expect Neko will share full details once he's ridden it more.
I can say I have noticed an increase in stiffness on my current frame I have built with a 42mm dt vs previous frames with a 38mm dt.
New Rock Shox Vivid Coil dropping in 2 weeks. Looks pretty much the same as the current SD but it has the same internals as the Vivid Air including touchdown technology
Have the extra buttons on the right side of Bruni's bars been mentioned before? I had only ever seen them on the left side for the...
Have the extra buttons on the right side of Bruni's bars been mentioned before? I had only ever seen them on the left side for the shock, so perhaps something going on with the forks too for Leogang?
Maybe the enduro version will help pass the time on the climbs?
New Rock Shox Vivid Coil dropping in 2 weeks. Looks pretty much the same as the current SD but it has the same internals as the...
New Rock Shox Vivid Coil dropping in 2 weeks. Looks pretty much the same as the current SD but it has the same internals as the Vivid Air including touchdown technology
Does a coil need less compression damping in the first 10% of its travel? As someone who's a big fan of higher LSC on coils this sounds... terrible.
On a different note: there is wind there's some new wagon wheeled Ibises (Ibi?) on the way.
The other site is reporting that Neko is experimenting with a steel front triangle again. The last interview I saw with him about the Cotic made...
The other site is reporting that Neko is experimenting with a steel front triangle again. The last interview I saw with him about the Cotic made one, he laughingly said, "ya that frame was comfortable, thats for sure" and in the context I think he was saying it was too flexy. This new one has different tubing sizes and lugs. Did he find a way to stiffen up steel, did he also break those epoxy frames and is sick of breaking/cracking triangles, or something else entirely?
Maybe a cost-savings?
No point in experimenting in frames at this point if the goal is cost savings. Plus with the non adjustable headset I don’t think these frames are meant for the public. Rather I think neko wants to make the best steel frame he can. And if it benefits himself, or asa, or angel then it’s a big win. If not he learned something which I think is as important to him as results.
New Rock Shox Vivid Coil dropping in 2 weeks. Looks pretty much the same as the current SD but it has the same internals as the...
New Rock Shox Vivid Coil dropping in 2 weeks. Looks pretty much the same as the current SD but it has the same internals as the Vivid Air including touchdown technology
I'm trying to buy the Vivid Ultimate Air for a year now, always on backorder. Contacted RockShox and all I got was apologies. What a gong show. Launching a new product but then you can't actuallyu buy it. Hopefully this goes better.
The other site is reporting that Neko is experimenting with a steel front triangle again. The last interview I saw with him about the Cotic made...
The other site is reporting that Neko is experimenting with a steel front triangle again. The last interview I saw with him about the Cotic made one, he laughingly said, "ya that frame was comfortable, thats for sure" and in the context I think he was saying it was too flexy. This new one has different tubing sizes and lugs. Did he find a way to stiffen up steel, did he also break those epoxy frames and is sick of breaking/cracking triangles, or something else entirely?
I can't guess what the internal gauge or butting profile is on the new Frameworks steel tubes, but they're visibly larger in outer diameter. Outer diameter...
I can't guess what the internal gauge or butting profile is on the new Frameworks steel tubes, but they're visibly larger in outer diameter. Outer diameter of tubing is the #1 determinant of frame stiffness, which is why aluminum frames are typically stiffer than their steel and titanium counterparts- aluminum frames almost always use bigger diameter tube sets. The same is true for carbon (mostly), and carbon tube diameters are often all over the map on the same frameset to yield different stiffness or compliance in different parts of the bike, i.e. smaller diameter for seatstays and top tubes, bigger diameter for chainstays and downtubes. Look at a fancy carbon road bike and the downtube is typically 5-ish times bigger in diameter than the seatstays.
The devil is in the details, you could make an aluminium tube stiff enough at a small diameter, but it would have to be thick to have enough cross section area to carry the load (aluminium has lower tensile strength). That's why it makes sense to go larger diameter with thin walls. With steel you can go thinish walls at smaller diameters as it can carry a lot more load at the same Cross section area. Because steel is three times as stiff as aluminium it's also not as big of a penalty to go thinner in overall diameter as it would seem initialy.
I'm trying to buy the Vivid Ultimate Air for a year now, always on backorder. Contacted RockShox and all I got was apologies. What a gong...
I'm trying to buy the Vivid Ultimate Air for a year now, always on backorder. Contacted RockShox and all I got was apologies. What a gong show. Launching a new product but then you can't actuallyu buy it. Hopefully this goes better.
They make more money putting them on New bikes vs selling them separate, Need to take into account shipping them around the world, Shop mark up's etc etc.
better off to try get a cheap take off and retune it.
New Rock Shox Vivid Coil dropping in 2 weeks. Looks pretty much the same as the current SD but it has the same internals as the...
New Rock Shox Vivid Coil dropping in 2 weeks. Looks pretty much the same as the current SD but it has the same internals as the Vivid Air including touchdown technology
I'm trying to buy the Vivid Ultimate Air for a year now, always on backorder. Contacted RockShox and all I got was apologies. What a gong...
I'm trying to buy the Vivid Ultimate Air for a year now, always on backorder. Contacted RockShox and all I got was apologies. What a gong show. Launching a new product but then you can't actuallyu buy it. Hopefully this goes better.
High demand product is in high demand. Crazy right?
New Rock Shox Vivid Coil dropping in 2 weeks. Looks pretty much the same as the current SD but it has the same internals as the...
New Rock Shox Vivid Coil dropping in 2 weeks. Looks pretty much the same as the current SD but it has the same internals as the Vivid Air including touchdown technology
I'm trying to buy the Vivid Ultimate Air for a year now, always on backorder. Contacted RockShox and all I got was apologies. What a gong...
I'm trying to buy the Vivid Ultimate Air for a year now, always on backorder. Contacted RockShox and all I got was apologies. What a gong show. Launching a new product but then you can't actuallyu buy it. Hopefully this goes better.
Can you order from Europe ? First search and most in stock/available in 1-3 days ...
I can't guess what the internal gauge or butting profile is on the new Frameworks steel tubes, but they're visibly larger in outer diameter. Outer diameter...
I can't guess what the internal gauge or butting profile is on the new Frameworks steel tubes, but they're visibly larger in outer diameter. Outer diameter of tubing is the #1 determinant of frame stiffness, which is why aluminum frames are typically stiffer than their steel and titanium counterparts- aluminum frames almost always use bigger diameter tube sets. The same is true for carbon (mostly), and carbon tube diameters are often all over the map on the same frameset to yield different stiffness or compliance in different parts of the bike, i.e. smaller diameter for seatstays and top tubes, bigger diameter for chainstays and downtubes. Look at a fancy carbon road bike and the downtube is typically 5-ish times bigger in diameter than the seatstays.
I'm trying to buy the Vivid Ultimate Air for a year now, always on backorder. Contacted RockShox and all I got was apologies. What a gong...
I'm trying to buy the Vivid Ultimate Air for a year now, always on backorder. Contacted RockShox and all I got was apologies. What a gong show. Launching a new product but then you can't actuallyu buy it. Hopefully this goes better.
They make more money putting them on New bikes vs selling them separate, Need to take into account shipping them around the world, Shop mark up's...
They make more money putting them on New bikes vs selling them separate, Need to take into account shipping them around the world, Shop mark up's etc etc.
better off to try get a cheap take off and retune it.
I added up the retail price of all the major parts on my most recent bike purchase and it costed the frame within a rounding error of $0. Sure there are more middlemen, but are they really accepting lower margins in the retail channel?
I added up the retail price of all the major parts on my most recent bike purchase and it costed the frame within a rounding error...
I added up the retail price of all the major parts on my most recent bike purchase and it costed the frame within a rounding error of $0. Sure there are more middlemen, but are they really accepting lower margins in the retail channel?
Not sure what it's like in the Southern Hemisphere, but up top in the UK the margins (gross) are still good (unless they're just trying to punt inventory). Costs at OEM level are ridiculous. If you add everything up on your bike it looks like a great deal at RRP, but a fraction of that will have been paid for all those shiny parts at the factory. Even at wholesale prices (what the distributor buys it for, before they sell it at trade to shops) the margins are still pretty good on most brands (excluding Fox who are still tiny). I seen a few of these wholesale prices and it quite sickening how little everything costs to get it in country... it must be almost worthless at factory level. That said while the margins can be good, net profit (at retail) varies and can be tiny depending on how well the shop/business is managed.
Once Specialized et al stop panicking about money and sell off a bit more of their overstock things will settle down. One of the reasons they bought so many retailers (Specialized at least) is so they've got a better idea of what goes on at a ground level, which will allow them to react quicker when the market changes next time. For instance the likes of YT and Canyon were able to cancel orders because they saw that people had stopped buying and they were able minimise the impact of the downturn. 6 months (ish) later when Specialized started to see it (because they rely on sales data form shops) they couldn't cancel much because the factories refused.
From what I see in my little bubble the market is not as bad as everyone thinks. My little bubble has recently relocated too and its the same in the new area, if anything its better because its much more affluent as you get closer to London.
They just did an overview of Kolb's bike on the livestream and I noticed what looked like weight plates zip tied to to the bottom of his BB shell, has anyone else noticed that before?
They just did an overview of Kolb's bike on the livestream and I noticed what looked like weight plates zip tied to to the bottom of...
They just did an overview of Kolb's bike on the livestream and I noticed what looked like weight plates zip tied to to the bottom of his BB shell, has anyone else noticed that before?
I can't remember which bike, but I'm sure there was talk of one bike at Hardline that has a cavity around the BB specifically for weights.
I'm trying to buy the Vivid Ultimate Air for a year now, always on backorder. Contacted RockShox and all I got was apologies. What a gong...
I'm trying to buy the Vivid Ultimate Air for a year now, always on backorder. Contacted RockShox and all I got was apologies. What a gong show. Launching a new product but then you can't actuallyu buy it. Hopefully this goes better.
They make more money putting them on New bikes vs selling them separate, Need to take into account shipping them around the world, Shop mark up's...
They make more money putting them on New bikes vs selling them separate, Need to take into account shipping them around the world, Shop mark up's etc etc.
better off to try get a cheap take off and retune it.
I added up the retail price of all the major parts on my most recent bike purchase and it costed the frame within a rounding error...
I added up the retail price of all the major parts on my most recent bike purchase and it costed the frame within a rounding error of $0. Sure there are more middlemen, but are they really accepting lower margins in the retail channel?
Highly unlikely that margins are worse through retail. They probably need to prioritize OEM likely due to contract requirements or because they don't want to lose on volume.
There's no way they have lower margin at retail though.
They just did an overview of Kolb's bike on the livestream and I noticed what looked like weight plates zip tied to to the bottom of...
They just did an overview of Kolb's bike on the livestream and I noticed what looked like weight plates zip tied to to the bottom of his BB shell, has anyone else noticed that before?
It appears every now and then, typically at rough and long tracks like Fort William, atwill was running them this year, orange even produced dh frame with dedicated mounts for weight plates under bb.
The other site is reporting that Neko is experimenting with a steel front triangle again. The last interview I saw with him about the Cotic made one, he laughingly said, "ya that frame was comfortable, thats for sure" and in the context I think he was saying it was too flexy. This new one has different tubing sizes and lugs. Did he find a way to stiffen up steel, did he also break those epoxy frames and is sick of breaking/cracking triangles, or something else entirely?
Maybe a cost-savings?
a bunch of neko's steel pics in our pit bits gallery too
https://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/pit-bits-2-leogang-world-cup-d…
I can't guess what the internal gauge or butting profile is on the new Frameworks steel tubes, but they're visibly larger in outer diameter. Outer diameter of tubing is the #1 determinant of frame stiffness, which is why aluminum frames are typically stiffer than their steel and titanium counterparts- aluminum frames almost always use bigger diameter tube sets. The same is true for carbon (mostly), and carbon tube diameters are often all over the map on the same frameset to yield different stiffness or compliance in different parts of the bike, i.e. smaller diameter for seatstays and top tubes, bigger diameter for chainstays and downtubes. Look at a fancy carbon road bike and the downtube is typically 5-ish times bigger in diameter than the seatstays.
The Cotic built frame used 38.1 mm of tubes for tt/st/dt. The dt being the same one they used on their Rocket Max. This new front end was built by Adam Prosise (formerly worked for Reeb now building stuff out of his own shop under Prosise Metal Works). I would guess that he used the Velospec 44.5mm tube with a 1-.7-.9 butting or Fairing also makes a 44.5mm .9 straight gauge tube. That is the beefiest commercial available tube of reasonable weight. Next bigger option would be to internally relieve a 50.8mm 1.2mm tube on a lathe. I would expect Neko will share full details once he's ridden it more.
I can say I have noticed an increase in stiffness on my current frame I have built with a 42mm dt vs previous frames with a 38mm dt.
New Rock Shox Vivid Coil dropping in 2 weeks. Looks pretty much the same as the current SD but it has the same internals as the Vivid Air including touchdown technology
He's been very outspoken about his desire to retire in the next couple years and become a DJ.
Maybe the enduro version will help pass the time on the climbs?
Does a coil need less compression damping in the first 10% of its travel? As someone who's a big fan of higher LSC on coils this sounds... terrible.
On a different note: there is wind there's some new wagon wheeled Ibises (Ibi?) on the way.
No point in experimenting in frames at this point if the goal is cost savings. Plus with the non adjustable headset I don’t think these frames are meant for the public. Rather I think neko wants to make the best steel frame he can. And if it benefits himself, or asa, or angel then it’s a big win. If not he learned something which I think is as important to him as results.
I'm trying to buy the Vivid Ultimate Air for a year now, always on backorder. Contacted RockShox and all I got was apologies. What a gong show. Launching a new product but then you can't actuallyu buy it. Hopefully this goes better.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_moment_of_area
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_second_moments_of_area
The devil is in the details, you could make an aluminium tube stiff enough at a small diameter, but it would have to be thick to have enough cross section area to carry the load (aluminium has lower tensile strength). That's why it makes sense to go larger diameter with thin walls. With steel you can go thinish walls at smaller diameters as it can carry a lot more load at the same Cross section area. Because steel is three times as stiff as aluminium it's also not as big of a penalty to go thinner in overall diameter as it would seem initialy.
As for road bike seatstays, apparently they are there for regulation (UCI regulates a double diamond frame) and basically aren't needed for construction purposes. QED Kruijswijk racing a TDF stage without one : https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/tour-de-france-roglic-comes-third-on…
They make more money putting them on New bikes vs selling them separate, Need to take into account shipping them around the world, Shop mark up's etc etc.
better off to try get a cheap take off and retune it.
High demand product is in high demand. Crazy right?
Can you order from Europe ? First search and most in stock/available in 1-3 days ...
https://r2-bike.com/search/?qs=VIVID+ULTIMATE&search=
Looks like a Salsa Cassidy.. no?
Nah linkage and down tube are totally different.
Slo mo vid Bellas dad posted it looked like there was no pivot at the seat and chain stay junction
A lot of answers in this video guys https://youtu.be/vHhBc61VPXo?si=m1mJAVWcw6ZXrgx9
I added up the retail price of all the major parts on my most recent bike purchase and it costed the frame within a rounding error of $0. Sure there are more middlemen, but are they really accepting lower margins in the retail channel?
Not sure what it's like in the Southern Hemisphere, but up top in the UK the margins (gross) are still good (unless they're just trying to punt inventory). Costs at OEM level are ridiculous. If you add everything up on your bike it looks like a great deal at RRP, but a fraction of that will have been paid for all those shiny parts at the factory. Even at wholesale prices (what the distributor buys it for, before they sell it at trade to shops) the margins are still pretty good on most brands (excluding Fox who are still tiny). I seen a few of these wholesale prices and it quite sickening how little everything costs to get it in country... it must be almost worthless at factory level. That said while the margins can be good, net profit (at retail) varies and can be tiny depending on how well the shop/business is managed.
Once Specialized et al stop panicking about money and sell off a bit more of their overstock things will settle down. One of the reasons they bought so many retailers (Specialized at least) is so they've got a better idea of what goes on at a ground level, which will allow them to react quicker when the market changes next time. For instance the likes of YT and Canyon were able to cancel orders because they saw that people had stopped buying and they were able minimise the impact of the downturn. 6 months (ish) later when Specialized started to see it (because they rely on sales data form shops) they couldn't cancel much because the factories refused.
From what I see in my little bubble the market is not as bad as everyone thinks. My little bubble has recently relocated too and its the same in the new area, if anything its better because its much more affluent as you get closer to London.
They just did an overview of Kolb's bike on the livestream and I noticed what looked like weight plates zip tied to to the bottom of his BB shell, has anyone else noticed that before?
I can't remember which bike, but I'm sure there was talk of one bike at Hardline that has a cavity around the BB specifically for weights.
Was it Ronan's bike?
Is this a new Hayes calliper? taken from discovery livestream
I can't remember.
Highly unlikely that margins are worse through retail. They probably need to prioritize OEM likely due to contract requirements or because they don't want to lose on volume.
There's no way they have lower margin at retail though.
It appears every now and then, typically at rough and long tracks like Fort William, atwill was running them this year, orange even produced dh frame with dedicated mounts for weight plates under bb.
Looks like it might be the Galfer prototype caliper we saw a little while back?