MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Primoz
Posts
4678
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
5/30/2024 5:38am
Just spent the last 3 days at Angel Fire shredding on my 160mm Hightower.. Haven’t been on the bike much prior to this trip and my...

Just spent the last 3 days at Angel Fire shredding on my 160mm Hightower.. Haven’t been on the bike much prior to this trip and my fingers felt like they each had been jammed and dislocated a thousand times. So that had me pondering about “clip-in” grips.. We all remember Loris having his hand taped to the bars last year. Would any of you nerds run them if they were available and were being used on the World Cup? Surely someone is working on this.

 

From my experience a more compliant handlebar does reduce hand fatigue and improves grip reliability (my hand moved on/over/off the grip less). For what it's worth...

5
PJ205
Posts
74
Joined
7/3/2018
Location
Somewhere In, CA, USA
Fantasy
5/30/2024 6:24am
Just spent the last 3 days at Angel Fire shredding on my 160mm Hightower.. Haven’t been on the bike much prior to this trip and my...

Just spent the last 3 days at Angel Fire shredding on my 160mm Hightower.. Haven’t been on the bike much prior to this trip and my fingers felt like they each had been jammed and dislocated a thousand times. So that had me pondering about “clip-in” grips.. We all remember Loris having his hand taped to the bars last year. Would any of you nerds run them if they were available and were being used on the World Cup? Surely someone is working on this.

 

Primoz wrote:

From my experience a more compliant handlebar does reduce hand fatigue and improves grip reliability (my hand moved on/over/off the grip less). For what it's worth...

Agreed there. OneUp Components and Race Face Era carbon bars have eliminated basically all of the issues that I had after breaking the same wrist twice. Was using another brands carbon bars before this and constantly had pain and claw hand during bike park season, switched to OneUp and it was all gone just about immediately. The Race Face Era bars are on one of my bikes now and have been good to me so far, if you want a bar wiith a little more backsweep and rise.

2
Primoz
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4678
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
5/30/2024 6:27am

FYI, OneUp at 20 mm rise is just about exactly as stiff as a 35 mm Turbine R in aluminium is under a static load. 

2
5
othello
Posts
34
Joined
9/5/2017
Location
GB
5/30/2024 6:32am
raozaki wrote:
Cannondale DH Proto at Hardline. I thought they benched these?    

Cannondale DH Proto at Hardline.

I thought they benched these?

 

 

Looks exactly (on the surface at least) like the black version Simmonds was testing/developing. Even has the 2 mount points for the second shock. 

Josh was asked about the bike, and he said it's the prototype and is an XL. Also said it's long and low. 

Wonder if it's the same bike with a cool paint job. Or a tweaked version for Josh to help develop?

4
haen
Posts
104
Joined
12/3/2020
Location
USA
5/30/2024 8:24am
Just spent the last 3 days at Angel Fire shredding on my 160mm Hightower.. Haven’t been on the bike much prior to this trip and my...

Just spent the last 3 days at Angel Fire shredding on my 160mm Hightower.. Haven’t been on the bike much prior to this trip and my fingers felt like they each had been jammed and dislocated a thousand times. So that had me pondering about “clip-in” grips.. We all remember Loris having his hand taped to the bars last year. Would any of you nerds run them if they were available and were being used on the World Cup? Surely someone is working on this.

 

Primoz wrote:

From my experience a more compliant handlebar does reduce hand fatigue and improves grip reliability (my hand moved on/over/off the grip less). For what it's worth...

PJ205 wrote:
Agreed there. OneUp Components and Race Face Era carbon bars have eliminated basically all of the issues that I had after breaking the same wrist twice...

Agreed there. OneUp Components and Race Face Era carbon bars have eliminated basically all of the issues that I had after breaking the same wrist twice. Was using another brands carbon bars before this and constantly had pain and claw hand during bike park season, switched to OneUp and it was all gone just about immediately. The Race Face Era bars are on one of my bikes now and have been good to me so far, if you want a bar wiith a little more backsweep and rise.

Another option (much cheaper as well) is to install full silicone grips. They have more soft material for vibration dampening compared to lock on grips. 

Wolf Tooth has a great selection of sizes and shapes. 

Bike Grips and Bar Tape – Wolf Tooth (wolftoothcomponents.com)

3
dolface
Posts
1714
Joined
10/26/2015
Location
USA
5/30/2024 8:34am
haen wrote:
Another option (much cheaper as well) is to install full silicone grips. They have more soft material for vibration dampening compared to lock on grips.  Wolf...

Another option (much cheaper as well) is to install full silicone grips. They have more soft material for vibration dampening compared to lock on grips. 

Wolf Tooth has a great selection of sizes and shapes. 

Bike Grips and Bar Tape – Wolf Tooth (wolftoothcomponents.com)

DAMPING!

28
1
5/30/2024 9:08am
Primoz wrote:

From my experience a more compliant handlebar does reduce hand fatigue and improves grip reliability (my hand moved on/over/off the grip less). For what it's worth...

In college I rode hammered grips and poort bled brakes because I was poor and felt it was cool to "suffer" and just lazy. After growing up, I've come to realize that details matter. Lots of small things add up. Minor adjustments to lever position, grips, bar backsweep & roll, well bled brakes, a fork that has at some point in its life actually been serviced, proper tire pressure, etc all add up to a huge difference. 

 

As much as I love my Oneup bars and revgrips, there is no magic bullet or single solution to most things in life, hand fatigue included. 

8
5/30/2024 9:10am
Primoz wrote:
Nothing prevents a cable actuated derailleur from moving inwards if it's hit from the side... No clutches needed. As for Transmission shifting and ebikes, as much...

Nothing prevents a cable actuated derailleur from moving inwards if it's hit from the side... No clutches needed.

As for Transmission shifting and ebikes, as much as I don't like the ergonomics of Shimano shifters, boy is it smooth when shifting under (full ebike) power. They did something right there. And it's been out for what, 5 years now? 

If I hit my xt m8100 hard on a rock and I'm in a high gear, the only way its going to move inwards is for the cable to snap. The Transmission has a clutch that allows it to move without breaking gears or the motor

1
Onawalk
Posts
344
Joined
7/5/2021
Location
CA
5/30/2024 9:31am
haen wrote:
Another option (much cheaper as well) is to install full silicone grips. They have more soft material for vibration dampening compared to lock on grips.  Wolf...

Another option (much cheaper as well) is to install full silicone grips. They have more soft material for vibration dampening compared to lock on grips. 

Wolf Tooth has a great selection of sizes and shapes. 

Bike Grips and Bar Tape – Wolf Tooth (wolftoothcomponents.com)

dolface wrote:

DAMPING!

Silicone feels wet, so...

1
1
earleb
Posts
368
Joined
3/23/2023
Location
North Vancouver, BC, CA
Fantasy
5/30/2024 10:01am

Do dead hangs from a pull up bar. Improves your grip strength. 

10
sspomer
Posts
6332
Joined
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Location
Boise, ID, USA
Fantasy
5/30/2024 10:10am
So when transmission dropped, all everyone could talk about was how fast the shifting was. Then, once the hype died down, truth started to leak out...

So when transmission dropped, all everyone could talk about was how fast the shifting was. Then, once the hype died down, truth started to leak out.

https://youtu.be/hT4ysSz4UV8?si=CZ5TpLE707pRgAl1&t=1081

For instance, in the above video (link has timestamp) they were testing the climbing times of high powered ebikes (Rocky Mountain won, I love their approach to ebike motors). The Transmission equipped ebikes were slower because of the non-trivial delay in shifting. 

I' actually surprised that companies like e*13, OneUp, Garbaruk, etc haven't made a machined replacement for the top portion of traditional derailleurs to use the T-type mount, allowing for hanger-free Shimano shifting. Maybe without the "clutch" allowing the derailleur to move inwards from a strike its not worth it. 
 

image-20240529125808-1

just so it's on the record (again), when transmission dropped, on that very day, we showed that shifting was slower than previous axs. - https://youtu.be/ooilfJ2SEiQ?si=3HzuoD9OusEMyaeJ&t=691

go to 11:31 in the video

 

22
1
JVP
Posts
233
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Location
Bellingham, WA, USA
5/30/2024 10:11am
Onawalk wrote:

Silicone feels wet, so...

Silicone grips are great for damping but terrible for dampening.

15
Jon_Angieri
Posts
94
Joined
3/25/2019
Location
Broken Arrow, OK, USA
5/30/2024 10:23am

Lol no one mentioned the main point/thought??? I brought up about”CLIP-IN” grips in my last post. I appreciate the tips, a little ibuprofen helped a lot. I’m always looking for the most optimum setup. I was running Oneup aluminum bars 35mm rise. Perfectly bled and bedded Shigura’s w/new rotors/pads. My ERA fork worked amazingly on day one then began to give up the bath oil thru the seals afterwards and  performance seemed to suffer after that. May have just been me tho too. I haven’t been on the bike much so hand fatigue wasn’t surprising 

1
13
5/30/2024 12:52pm
Black Maven Levers?!?! Or just Silver levers on Ultimate calipers?  Found these on Conner Fearon’s Bikes Check   


Black Maven Levers?!?! Or just Silver levers on Ultimate calipers? 
Found these on Conner Fearon’s Bikes Check 

 

29 wrote:
  black calipers as well. Only difference is titanium hardware on the ultimate I think so maybe they just switched that out because the black goes...

image 12

 

black calipers as well. Only difference is titanium hardware on the ultimate I think so maybe they just switched that out because the black goes better with the frame  

 

I kinda like it. I wonder if it will ever be on the market.

1
20
5/30/2024 12:54pm Edited Date/Time 5/30/2024 12:55pm
Kusa wrote:

peecee wrote:
For those who don't have a microscope  

For those who don't have a microscope

 

Haha saw that one on Fanatik. They took it down in less than 12hrs. 
 

Doesn’t seem like it’s even worth upgrading because it’s only the damper to be honest. 
Might upgrade after I bend the damper shaft on my current one lmao.

26
5/30/2024 9:28pm
haen wrote:
Another option (much cheaper as well) is to install full silicone grips. They have more soft material for vibration dampening compared to lock on grips.  Wolf...

Another option (much cheaper as well) is to install full silicone grips. They have more soft material for vibration dampening compared to lock on grips. 

Wolf Tooth has a great selection of sizes and shapes. 

Bike Grips and Bar Tape – Wolf Tooth (wolftoothcomponents.com)

dolface wrote:

DAMPING!

59
1
Primoz
Posts
4678
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
5/30/2024 10:42pm
Primoz wrote:
Nothing prevents a cable actuated derailleur from moving inwards if it's hit from the side... No clutches needed. As for Transmission shifting and ebikes, as much...

Nothing prevents a cable actuated derailleur from moving inwards if it's hit from the side... No clutches needed.

As for Transmission shifting and ebikes, as much as I don't like the ergonomics of Shimano shifters, boy is it smooth when shifting under (full ebike) power. They did something right there. And it's been out for what, 5 years now? 

If I hit my xt m8100 hard on a rock and I'm in a high gear, the only way its going to move inwards is for...

If I hit my xt m8100 hard on a rock and I'm in a high gear, the only way its going to move inwards is for the cable to snap. The Transmission has a clutch that allows it to move without breaking gears or the motor

Think it through once more. Last I checked Shimano's RapidRise derailleurs died a deserved death almost 20 years ago and are the only ones where your explanation is actually correct. In all other cases (on derailleurs where you PULL the derailleur towards larger cogs, so inwards) you're just going to slacken off the cable. The only thing prevent the derailleur from coming inwards under a hit is the top pulley hitting the cassette (which wasn't a problem until X-horizon 1x11 Sram derailleurs and Shimano nearly horizontal 12spd stuff).

If you don't believe me, go to your bike, put it in the 10T cog and push the derailleur inwards. There isn't even any resistance like there probably is with a clutch Tongue

Kudos to Sram's marketing department though, they really sold this clutch thingie like it's the bees knees Smile

14
Evil96
Posts
875
Joined
8/21/2014
Location
Portogruaro, VE, IT
5/31/2024 12:46am
So when transmission dropped, all everyone could talk about was how fast the shifting was. Then, once the hype died down, truth started to leak out...

So when transmission dropped, all everyone could talk about was how fast the shifting was. Then, once the hype died down, truth started to leak out.

https://youtu.be/hT4ysSz4UV8?si=CZ5TpLE707pRgAl1&t=1081

For instance, in the above video (link has timestamp) they were testing the climbing times of high powered ebikes (Rocky Mountain won, I love their approach to ebike motors). The Transmission equipped ebikes were slower because of the non-trivial delay in shifting. 

I' actually surprised that companies like e*13, OneUp, Garbaruk, etc haven't made a machined replacement for the top portion of traditional derailleurs to use the T-type mount, allowing for hanger-free Shimano shifting. Maybe without the "clutch" allowing the derailleur to move inwards from a strike its not worth it. 
 

image-20240529125808-1

sspomer wrote:
just so it's on the record (again), when transmission dropped, on that very day, we showed that shifting was slower than previous axs. - https://youtu.be/ooilfJ2SEiQ?si=3HzuoD9OusEMyaeJ&t=691 go to...

just so it's on the record (again), when transmission dropped, on that very day, we showed that shifting was slower than previous axs. - https://youtu.be/ooilfJ2SEiQ?si=3HzuoD9OusEMyaeJ&t=691

go to 11:31 in the video

 

it's still heavy, overpriced and deralieur shit themselves randomly and stop working, indestructible my ass

9
11
alerad
Posts
6
Joined
12/4/2023
Location
Cotati, CA, USA
5/31/2024 8:24am Edited Date/Time 5/31/2024 8:45am

Seems like someone spoiled the launch.. Or at least I didn't find any info on instagram or their website. 

But SCOR is apparently launching the 6080Z e-freeride machine.

https://bornmagazin.ch/news/the-all-new-scor-6080-z

 

2
bikelurker
Posts
183
Joined
3/23/2023
Location
Bilbao, Vizcaya, ES
5/31/2024 8:32am
haen wrote:

How are brands so far off on what is needed for compression and rebound damping with all the development time and money behind these products?

Often because High end parts are not designed for 'bumblers'  When I wasnt riding at the level I am now, My compression, especially Low speed was...

Often because High end parts are not designed for 'bumblers' 
When I wasnt riding at the level I am now, My compression, especially Low speed was All the way open, Now on certain forks Im getting close near full closed.

For reference I have about 3 clicks from open on my 3.1 damper. so i can see how the slower guys may ask for less compression.

2supple wrote:
I remember watching a moi moi video where they did testing and dropped a lighter compression tune into his Zeb. Seems like the pros can prefer...

I remember watching a moi moi video where they did testing and dropped a lighter compression tune into his Zeb. Seems like the pros can prefer lighter compression as well.  

Question still stands - how is it that every two years there are updated compression tunes. This applies to RS and the latest Fox Grip X2. Why can't they get it right the first time. 

I am not fast, nor a pro, and I cannot ride with open conpression, but others seem to prefer that. In the last 10 years I almost quit riding a couple of times, thinking that I forget how to ride. Brands going to the extremes with their tunning seems insane to me, let people have options

1
shreda
Posts
211
Joined
10/2/2018
Location
GB
5/31/2024 8:35am
alerad wrote:
Seems like someone spoiled the launch.. Or at least I didn't find any info on instagram or their website.  But SCOR is apparently launching the 6080Z...

Seems like someone spoiled the launch.. Or at least I didn't find any info on instagram or their website. 

But SCOR is apparently launching the 6080Z e-freeride machine.

https://bornmagazin.ch/news/the-all-new-scor-6080-z

 

Yeah super weird launch and weird bike too. Not exactly sure how a 190mm E-Park shredder fits in their lineup or in a bikepark. 
 

At 28kg Mavens would have been be a good choice when already going for sram brakes. 

1
sprungmass
Posts
240
Joined
3/1/2023
Location
Calgary, AB, CA
5/31/2024 8:42am

That would be an XC racer's dream. Lighter, tighter gear ratios. Most don't need that 52T which is why we see those crazy 38-40T chain rings in the world cup.

This got me thinking if SRAM will have some form of backward compatibility by releasing a 13 speed firmware for MTB transmission derailleurs. That way they can go bonkers and have a 10-60 cassette. Now that we don't have a b gap adjuster to worry about they can keep going bigger.

1
noodlenosteeze
Posts
219
Joined
1/12/2023
Location
Salt Lake City, UT, USA
5/31/2024 9:07am Edited Date/Time 5/31/2024 9:13am
earleb wrote:

Do dead hangs from a pull up bar. Improves your grip strength. 

This. I feel as though people will open their wallet 10 times to every 1 time trying to adjust for it physiologically.

Riding your bike depends quite a bit on your hands, the muscles connected to them need to have the strength and flexibility to deal with it. 

3
noodlenosteeze
Posts
219
Joined
1/12/2023
Location
Salt Lake City, UT, USA
5/31/2024 9:10am
Black Maven Levers?!?! Or just Silver levers on Ultimate calipers?  Found these on Conner Fearon’s Bikes Check   


Black Maven Levers?!?! Or just Silver levers on Ultimate calipers? 
Found these on Conner Fearon’s Bikes Check 

 

29 wrote:
  black calipers as well. Only difference is titanium hardware on the ultimate I think so maybe they just switched that out because the black goes...

image 12

 

black calipers as well. Only difference is titanium hardware on the ultimate I think so maybe they just switched that out because the black goes better with the frame  

 

I kinda like it. I wonder if it will ever be on the market.

Question - you don't seem to have comments that most would generally disagree with yet you get disliked to the depths. Is there an inside joke or something I am missing?

7
10
bigbonjour
Posts
4
Joined
2/21/2024
Location
Mt Everest, NP
5/31/2024 9:15am
Black Maven Levers?!?! Or just Silver levers on Ultimate calipers?  Found these on Conner Fearon’s Bikes Check   


Black Maven Levers?!?! Or just Silver levers on Ultimate calipers? 
Found these on Conner Fearon’s Bikes Check 

 

29 wrote:
  black calipers as well. Only difference is titanium hardware on the ultimate I think so maybe they just switched that out because the black goes...

image 12

 

black calipers as well. Only difference is titanium hardware on the ultimate I think so maybe they just switched that out because the black goes better with the frame  

 

These will just be from last year before the release, all the pre production Mavens teams received last season were full black, with only a few exceptions on the red caliper 

4
mixmastamikal
Posts
85
Joined
9/6/2014
Location
Salt Lake City, UT, USA
5/31/2024 9:35am
Evil96 wrote:
I hope they don’t, transmission is the most overhyped product in the market right now ultra expensive, heavy and slow the old cable eagle does everything...

I hope they don’t,

transmission is the most overhyped product in the market right now

ultra expensive, heavy and slow

the old cable eagle does everything at a fraction of the price and weight

So when transmission dropped, all everyone could talk about was how fast the shifting was. Then, once the hype died down, truth started to leak out...

So when transmission dropped, all everyone could talk about was how fast the shifting was. Then, once the hype died down, truth started to leak out.

https://youtu.be/hT4ysSz4UV8?si=CZ5TpLE707pRgAl1&t=1081

For instance, in the above video (link has timestamp) they were testing the climbing times of high powered ebikes (Rocky Mountain won, I love their approach to ebike motors). The Transmission equipped ebikes were slower because of the non-trivial delay in shifting. 

I' actually surprised that companies like e*13, OneUp, Garbaruk, etc haven't made a machined replacement for the top portion of traditional derailleurs to use the T-type mount, allowing for hanger-free Shimano shifting. Maybe without the "clutch" allowing the derailleur to move inwards from a strike its not worth it. 
 

image-20240529125808-1

Primoz wrote:
Nothing prevents a cable actuated derailleur from moving inwards if it's hit from the side... No clutches needed. As for Transmission shifting and ebikes, as much...

Nothing prevents a cable actuated derailleur from moving inwards if it's hit from the side... No clutches needed.

As for Transmission shifting and ebikes, as much as I don't like the ergonomics of Shimano shifters, boy is it smooth when shifting under (full ebike) power. They did something right there. And it's been out for what, 5 years now? 

My favorite set up has been the GX AXS (non transmission) derailleur paired with a Shimano chain and cassette. Best of both worlds 

7
1
5/31/2024 10:14am
sprungmass wrote:
That would be an XC racer's dream. Lighter, tighter gear ratios. Most don't need that 52T which is why we see those crazy 38-40T chain rings...

That would be an XC racer's dream. Lighter, tighter gear ratios. Most don't need that 52T which is why we see those crazy 38-40T chain rings in the world cup.

This got me thinking if SRAM will have some form of backward compatibility by releasing a 13 speed firmware for MTB transmission derailleurs. That way they can go bonkers and have a 10-60 cassette. Now that we don't have a b gap adjuster to worry about they can keep going bigger.

One interesting thing is that they use the super large chainrings so that they spend more time in the middle of the cassette and specifically lean more towards the larger cogs because they are more efficient than the small. (because of chain articulation) Nino and the boys want to avoid the 10T at all costs (unless in a sprint) and even the 11t because it's less efficient. So the big chainrings are choses so they spend most of the race in the middle of the cassette. The 52 is more efficient than the 10T, and so on. 

That said 13 speed would be great. The jumps on MTB are manageable with 12 speed, but for gravel and road especially, 13 (really 14) is really needed to have small jumps and enough range to really make 1x 100% way to go. 

For MTB short track, the riders can use the SRAM 10-42 12speed XPLR cassette from the gravel lineup for tighter jumps. But what they'd really want is a 11-42 13speed.
 

5
1
grinch
Posts
271
Joined
10/15/2013
Location
CA
5/31/2024 10:40am
alerad wrote:
Seems like someone spoiled the launch.. Or at least I didn't find any info on instagram or their website.  But SCOR is apparently launching the 6080Z...

Seems like someone spoiled the launch.. Or at least I didn't find any info on instagram or their website. 

But SCOR is apparently launching the 6080Z e-freeride machine.

https://bornmagazin.ch/news/the-all-new-scor-6080-z

 

shreda wrote:
Yeah super weird launch and weird bike too. Not exactly sure how a 190mm E-Park shredder fits in their lineup or in a bikepark.    At...

Yeah super weird launch and weird bike too. Not exactly sure how a 190mm E-Park shredder fits in their lineup or in a bikepark. 
 

At 28kg Mavens would have been be a good choice when already going for sram brakes. 

I guess their ad translates to its a downhill shuttle bike and that makes sense. Why not have long travel if you have assist? Mine is 180f/165r and its my dh/xc/shuttle/bp/gravel/commuter because its still quicker than any category non assist bike. Boring flatter chundery xc trails are now fun as well

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