MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

tabletop84 wrote:

For ebikes there isn't infinite improvement in battery in motor technology at least with the current gen stuff. The main problem is now that the market...

For ebikes there isn't infinite improvement in battery in motor technology at least with the current gen stuff. The main problem is now that the market is polarized into sluggish heavy full power ebikes which weigh 25 kg+ and light ebikes who lack the grunt. I'd like to see something like the orbea rise without the annoying motor rattle and a derestricted motor plus 500 Wh battery which should come in at around 18-20 kg. Then there is also the integrated gearbox trend but that will just make the bikes heavier.

SteveClimber wrote:

The main problem is that e-bikes just aren't a great product yet. . The controllers and displays are meh. The motors are noisy and are expensive...

The main problem is that e-bikes just aren't a great product yet. .

The controllers and displays are meh. The motors are noisy and are expensive to service and water ingress is a huge problem. Warranties are very high on e-bikes components. Servicing the rest of the bike is often a nightmare because of the cable routing with the battery motor combo. 

You pay $8k for a product that is OK at best, and potentially shite and needs a warranty or major service fee in it's first year. They're just not a mature product yet IMO.

 

jonathanheierle wrote:

Definitely a bit exaggerated but on the right track. Ebikes are slowly getting lighter and more powerful but I feel like it is more of a...

Definitely a bit exaggerated but on the right track. Ebikes are slowly getting lighter and more powerful but I feel like it is more of a technology plateau currently. I've owned my Turbo levo for 3, almost 4 years now and it's been a great bike. Other than having the motor replaced under warranty I've never had any motor/battery specific services. Just standard brake/tire/suspension maintenance. I'm not surprised with the current motor and battery issues with these bikes as most of the bigger brands are only on their 3rd or 4th iterations of e-mtb. so performance/reliability gains have been nominal but are still improving every year.

The motor on my Levo has never been loud enough to bother me, it's about what I'd expect for a motor putting out torque like that. I used to struggle on climbs so much to the point where I'd have to hop off and walk at least once or twice on a majority of climbs. However, the e-mtb changed that for me and let me ride much longer and further. It's gotten me to the point where I've gotten fit enough that I actually prefer riding my 'acoustic' bike now and have more stamina and strength than ever before and I definitely attribute that to the ebike as I never would've made those gains with my normal bike. 

While having 1 motor replaced under warranty kinda sucks, I'm not too surprised given how premature these products are. Considering I didn't even have to pay for that replacement, my Levo hasn't cost anymore to maintain and ride than my other bikes and it's for sure been one of the best bike purchases I've ever made, but now I'm building up a druid v2 

SteveClimber wrote:

The main problem is that e-bikes just aren't a great product yet. . The controllers and displays are meh. The motors are noisy and are expensive...

The main problem is that e-bikes just aren't a great product yet. .

The controllers and displays are meh. The motors are noisy and are expensive to service and water ingress is a huge problem. Warranties are very high on e-bikes components. Servicing the rest of the bike is often a nightmare because of the cable routing with the battery motor combo. 

You pay $8k for a product that is OK at best, and potentially shite and needs a warranty or major service fee in it's first year. They're just not a mature product yet IMO.

 

jonathanheierle wrote:

Definitely a bit exaggerated but on the right track. Ebikes are slowly getting lighter and more powerful but I feel like it is more of a...

Definitely a bit exaggerated but on the right track. Ebikes are slowly getting lighter and more powerful but I feel like it is more of a technology plateau currently. I've owned my Turbo levo for 3, almost 4 years now and it's been a great bike. Other than having the motor replaced under warranty I've never had any motor/battery specific services. Just standard brake/tire/suspension maintenance. I'm not surprised with the current motor and battery issues with these bikes as most of the bigger brands are only on their 3rd or 4th iterations of e-mtb. so performance/reliability gains have been nominal but are still improving every year.

The motor on my Levo has never been loud enough to bother me, it's about what I'd expect for a motor putting out torque like that. I used to struggle on climbs so much to the point where I'd have to hop off and walk at least once or twice on a majority of climbs. However, the e-mtb changed that for me and let me ride much longer and further. It's gotten me to the point where I've gotten fit enough that I actually prefer riding my 'acoustic' bike now and have more stamina and strength than ever before and I definitely attribute that to the ebike as I never would've made those gains with my normal bike. 

While having 1 motor replaced under warranty kinda sucks, I'm not too surprised given how premature these products are. Considering I didn't even have to pay for that replacement, my Levo hasn't cost anymore to maintain and ride than my other bikes and it's for sure been one of the best bike purchases I've ever made, but now I'm building up a druid v2 

SteveClimber wrote:

I think e-bikes aren't there only because of their incredibly high prices. If they were cheap I'd be fine with it.  What other product is out...

I think e-bikes aren't there only because of their incredibly high prices. If they were cheap I'd be fine with it. 

What other product is out there that is $8k+ and everyone is like, you'll most likely have to warranty part of it in the first year. 

The trek shop near me is just a revolving door of ebike motor swaps due to water ingress.

Slapping a 70nm motor onto a fragile 12speed lightweight drivetrain is also just crazy. Thankfully link-glide has fixed that quite a bit. 

I'm very hopefully that in 5 years time e-bikes will be solid well developed products. 

Currently they work, but in the same way when I was a kid I attached a lead blower motor to a bike, it worked too, but it wasn't exactly great. 

brown_biker_boy wrote:

Did anyone catch the YT in the Ochain press release? It had a similar layout as an Izzo but with an X2 and a 38. Potato...

Did anyone catch the YT in the Ochain press release? It had a similar layout as an Izzo but with an X2 and a 38. Potato phone is struggling to post a pic but here is the link https://m.pinkbike.com/news/ochain-components-a-whole-new-range.html

nicompr wrote:

Primoz wrote:

If I remember correctly some ebike motors were designed for something like IP54 rating. Which is just crazy to me. I get that it's hard to...

If I remember correctly some ebike motors were designed for something like IP54 rating. Which is just crazy to me. I get that it's hard to reach the likes of IP67 or something similar with the input crank spindle and decoupled output spider, but it's not impossible... Or at least try to decouple the geartrain from the motor and electronics, make it serviceable, etc... 

SteveClimber wrote:

The main problem is that e-bikes just aren't a great product yet. . The controllers and displays are meh. The motors are noisy and are expensive...

The main problem is that e-bikes just aren't a great product yet. .

The controllers and displays are meh. The motors are noisy and are expensive to service and water ingress is a huge problem. Warranties are very high on e-bikes components. Servicing the rest of the bike is often a nightmare because of the cable routing with the battery motor combo. 

You pay $8k for a product that is OK at best, and potentially shite and needs a warranty or major service fee in it's first year. They're just not a mature product yet IMO.

 

jonathanheierle wrote:

Definitely a bit exaggerated but on the right track. Ebikes are slowly getting lighter and more powerful but I feel like it is more of a...

Definitely a bit exaggerated but on the right track. Ebikes are slowly getting lighter and more powerful but I feel like it is more of a technology plateau currently. I've owned my Turbo levo for 3, almost 4 years now and it's been a great bike. Other than having the motor replaced under warranty I've never had any motor/battery specific services. Just standard brake/tire/suspension maintenance. I'm not surprised with the current motor and battery issues with these bikes as most of the bigger brands are only on their 3rd or 4th iterations of e-mtb. so performance/reliability gains have been nominal but are still improving every year.

The motor on my Levo has never been loud enough to bother me, it's about what I'd expect for a motor putting out torque like that. I used to struggle on climbs so much to the point where I'd have to hop off and walk at least once or twice on a majority of climbs. However, the e-mtb changed that for me and let me ride much longer and further. It's gotten me to the point where I've gotten fit enough that I actually prefer riding my 'acoustic' bike now and have more stamina and strength than ever before and I definitely attribute that to the ebike as I never would've made those gains with my normal bike. 

While having 1 motor replaced under warranty kinda sucks, I'm not too surprised given how premature these products are. Considering I didn't even have to pay for that replacement, my Levo hasn't cost anymore to maintain and ride than my other bikes and it's for sure been one of the best bike purchases I've ever made, but now I'm building up a druid v2 

SteveClimber wrote:

I think e-bikes aren't there only because of their incredibly high prices. If they were cheap I'd be fine with it.  What other product is out...

I think e-bikes aren't there only because of their incredibly high prices. If they were cheap I'd be fine with it. 

What other product is out there that is $8k+ and everyone is like, you'll most likely have to warranty part of it in the first year. 

The trek shop near me is just a revolving door of ebike motor swaps due to water ingress.

Slapping a 70nm motor onto a fragile 12speed lightweight drivetrain is also just crazy. Thankfully link-glide has fixed that quite a bit. 

I'm very hopefully that in 5 years time e-bikes will be solid well developed products. 

Currently they work, but in the same way when I was a kid I attached a lead blower motor to a bike, it worked too, but it wasn't exactly great. 

Primoz wrote:

If I remember correctly some ebike motors were designed for something like IP54 rating. Which is just crazy to me. I get that it's hard to...

If I remember correctly some ebike motors were designed for something like IP54 rating. Which is just crazy to me. I get that it's hard to reach the likes of IP67 or something similar with the input crank spindle and decoupled output spider, but it's not impossible... Or at least try to decouple the geartrain from the motor and electronics, make it serviceable, etc... 

sethimus wrote:

specialized sl 1.2 is ip 67 rated

Suns_PSD wrote:

Actually my Relay is the best handling bike I've ever ridden. The 430 watt battery is plenty for a several hour long ride. I don't care...

Actually my Relay is the best handling bike I've ever ridden. The 430 watt battery is plenty for a several hour long ride. I don't care one bit about the mediocre controller or the display, as all it does is give me an idea of how much juice I have and I usually notice it 2-5x over a several hour ride. It has more than enough power for my needs. The motor is reliable enough and they are rebuildable for a couple of hundred and last a few years anyways.

Electric motors are very old technology and don't have room for significant improvement. If my battery was made of air the bike would be 5#s lighter. In reality it's going to take 5-10 years to get even a 20% improvement in battery capacity/ weights.

E-bikes will for sure continue to improve. But with the introduction of the Fazua 60 motor and the new Bosch mid-power, proper e-bikes have in fact arrived and further improvements will be incremental. Geo, taken from bikes is already dialed and now the motor packages are as well.

TimBud wrote:

Jekyl is all that came from that.

Where have you been?

TimBud wrote:

Jekyl is all that came from that.

Where have you been?

monarchmason wrote:

I thought the Jekyll came before that I knew they stopped but it seemed so… sudden and unannounced. Like that was a frame that seemed to...

I thought the Jekyll came before that

I knew they stopped but it seemed so… sudden and unannounced. Like that was a frame that seemed to have some intent behind it. Noone said how it rode or if it did anything special. Just showed up and gone. 

TimBud wrote:

Jekyl is all that came from that.

Where have you been?

monarchmason wrote:

I thought the Jekyll came before that I knew they stopped but it seemed so… sudden and unannounced. Like that was a frame that seemed to...

I thought the Jekyll came before that

I knew they stopped but it seemed so… sudden and unannounced. Like that was a frame that seemed to have some intent behind it. Noone said how it rode or if it did anything special. Just showed up and gone. 

carlinojoevideo wrote:

I believe that dual shock bike was just an experiment. Like stated above, the Jekyll was born from that. The DH bike was tested with dual...

I believe that dual shock bike was just an experiment. Like stated above, the Jekyll was born from that. The DH bike was tested with dual shock and single shock.

monarchmason wrote:

Gonna ask again. What happened to the Cannondale double shock downhill bike? 

ethanrevitch wrote:

  Soon.     Gold lowers coming for 38 and 40 as well…

 

Soon.

 

Gold lowers coming for 38 and 40 as well…

ethanrevitch wrote:

  Soon.     Gold lowers coming for 38 and 40 as well…

 

Soon.

 

Gold lowers coming for 38 and 40 as well…

bermed wrote:

Wow this seems super far along if it's already in production. Announce date coming soon?

eddkilla wrote:

So incredibly true. I’m all for the excitement of  tinkering and bracketing to find out what works best for me but there is definitely a point...

So incredibly true. I’m all for the excitement of  tinkering and bracketing to find out what works best for me but there is definitely a point where focusing on being a better rider will make you way faster than focusing on the mm’s of a frame or what new incremental changes are coming to X part. 
 

What sucks is when the opinions of people who have never ridden the thing they have an opinion on drive trends. Just look at the Pinkbike comments or even this forum to find self proclaimed engineers who apparently know what’s best vs the company that invested thousands of R&D to make the final product that you’re immediately sh*tting on the day it’s released. Click on their profile of these “experts” and you’ll find that they’re most often 35-50 yr old dads who think that the bike is holding them back.  
 

Puzzling is cool but people need to get outside more. 

iRider wrote:

Just entertain the thought that maybe, just maybe, the bike is really holding the 35-50 y/o dads back, but in a different way than you might...

Just entertain the thought that maybe, just maybe, the bike is really holding the 35-50 y/o dads back, but in a different way than you might think. Most bikes are designed and developed for and with 25 +/- y/o, fit, incredibly skilled pro riders. That is not me and most others on here are not on that level as well. So that is why trying to emulate a setup that pro riders use and the bike industry sells as the cool new stuff to have might in reality be holding back the average rider. I am not saying this is always the case, there are good examples of improvements and products that the average Joe can benefit from. As you wrote, trying out what works best for you is the way to go. However, that also means that sometimes you can already see from the prodcut announcement that this product most likely will not be beneficial for the average rider, or, in the worst case, even be detrimental for their riding experience. So why not voice this opinion in the comments on forums that are meant to exchange opinions about mountain bike-related topics?

dolface wrote:

Road cycling has started to figure this out; most people won't be comfortable on a the bike a world tour rider rides so they've started offering...

Road cycling has started to figure this out; most people won't be comfortable on a the bike a world tour rider rides so they've started offering bikes for normal (i.e. not world tour) riders.

dolface wrote:

I know it's a joke but it's also legit pretty cool:    

I know it's a joke but it's also legit pretty cool:

 

 

dolface wrote:

I know it's a joke but it's also legit pretty cool:    

I know it's a joke but it's also legit pretty cool:

 

 

jonkranked wrote:

transparent star trek aluminum would likely make internal routing easier to see.  but that's good commitment to an A1 gag.  actually kind of cool to see...

transparent star trek aluminum would likely make internal routing easier to see. 

but that's good commitment to an A1 gag.  actually kind of cool to see. next year he should 3d print a transparent fork, that would be cool

Brian_Peterson wrote:

Back in the day, I believe Manitou had a clear stanchion display fork to show the TPC damper function..

jofish wrote:

I’m sure fox have done plenty of transparent bits over the years. I am curious how they produce these? Is there some way for them to...

I’m sure fox have done plenty of transparent bits over the years. I am curious how they produce these? Is there some way for them to use the carbon tooling or do they really do soft injection moulding tooling just for these press camps?