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Don't be sad. I struggle to wrap my head around inflation too. Sometimes I find it helpful to recalibrate like this:
Adjusted for inflation the MSRP of a 2012 Sworks Stumpjumper FSR would be $2,494.63 more than the MSRP of a 2024 Sworks Stumpjumper FSR.
Adjusted for inflation the MSRP of the most affordable 2012 FSR would be $748.51 more than the MSRP of their most affordable 2024 full suspension.
i.e. prices have actually fallen, over 20%; while bikes have certainly improved, significantly.
There are still big innovations like what I'm doing, or Lal, Trust, or ebikes; and there were always less flashy innovations like improvements to tread patterns. Less flashy doesn't mean without value though, tires these days are much improved since a decade ago.
Not if you bike where hunting is allowed.
then again nothing new, we know about the new dampers
Soon.
Gold lowers coming for 38 and 40 as well…
innovations will happen in the ebike sector now
I am personally offended!
Lowest hanging fruit. Fixing geometry is cheaper than engineering flex and seeing what works and what doesn't. But it's likely these smaller things will be the next development war.
After a torrent of development 10 years ago, we have a period of stability. Getting ready for the next torrent. In the field of same same manufacturers will have to find the new thing to stand out by.
@hamncheez2003 Bird used to have the same tubeset across all their full suspension bikes as well. It's just sound engineering and accounting in this world. You can't really do fully custom aluminium if that requires hydroforming. With carbon footprint it is possible to adapt - you can have a different layup in the same mold. But that is also expensive as it requires additional testing. Plus what about resale value? Integrated seatposts are a pain as you can't sell a bike to someone taller than you for example... You can still cut it, but with custom layup it is what it is. Though if you are catering to a market that doesn't need a new bike every year, that might not be as much of an issue. With geometries and technology not progressing as fast it's completely possible to have the same frame for over 5 years.
Did anyone catch the YT in the Ochain press release? It had a similar layout as an Izzo but with an X2 and a 38. Potato phone is struggling to post a pic but here is the link https://m.pinkbike.com/news/ochain-components-a-whole-new-range.html
I just got sent the pic by a friend who doesn’t know anything about it. Anyone have ideas what Fox will do with their new Grip X2 damper?
Fox released gold lowers in 2014 already and they don't look that good imho. Same reason behind the idea as white marzocchi forks - to make you buy new stuff.
Speaking of sliding links algorithm popped this up in my feed.
Its from December but I don’t remember seeing before
They’re a bicycle part manufacturer. Aren’t they always trying to do that..?
Looks like an over-suspension'd Izzo, frame details are exactly an Izzo, down to the chainstay protection. Cool but strange build.
Endu-country?
Down-uro?
We may have hit a plateau in development.. At least until someone figures out something new in materials or design. 32in wheels are already being played with..
Bike weights... Yes, bikes are getting heavier.. But, riders are pushing them harder. People are riding 130mm bikes on stuff that 160mm bikes were considered the normal for only a few years ago..
Someone mentioned ebikes getting more development.. I'd say that's true on the motor and battery side.. That technology is developing at a way faster pace. It's just a matter of time before it comes to a price point that is feasible for the bike market. Batteries are gaining more energy density, so more power in a given amount of space..
Where is the next big step that gets us all excited?
apple vision ebike ride simulator. neurolink AXS brakes. jokes aside, I'd bet most of the development we'll see will be on the electronic side, but hoping that stimulates some rebound investment in the acoustic component and bike world
Aww jeez. So we've got acoustic components as well as bikes now? I'm off to find some clouds to shout at.
For ebikes there isn't infinite improvement in battery in motor technology at least with the current gen stuff. The main problem is now that the market is polarized into sluggish heavy full power ebikes which weigh 25 kg+ and light ebikes who lack the grunt. I'd like to see something like the orbea rise without the annoying motor rattle and a derestricted motor plus 500 Wh battery which should come in at around 18-20 kg. Then there is also the integrated gearbox trend but that will just make the bikes heavier.
We were riding stuff on hardtails and 130 bikes long ago. Kona Stinky, Norco VPS-1, RM Slayer/Pipeline, these were 130 bikes. the current Druid, Optic, Endorphin is just updated versions of those bikes. Dont get so hung up on mm's of travel, geo and intended use are more important.
Bike innovation has always been gradual, its all marginal gains, theyre are very few cataclysmic changes.
We are on the precipice of electronic active suspension, which is incredibly complex, and can "release" some of the design compromises that currently plague mountain bikes (between climbing efficiency and descending efficiency) I dont think we have yet to see a bike that is designed around Flight Attendant or LiveWire systems, just integration into existing platforms.
When a manufacturer takes the chance to design with FA in mind, you might very well have a bike that can do both better (climb/descend) but we all have a different version of better...
The main problem is that e-bikes just aren't a great product yet. .
The controllers and displays are meh. The motors are noisy and are expensive to service and water ingress is a huge problem. Warranties are very high on e-bikes components. Servicing the rest of the bike is often a nightmare because of the cable routing with the battery motor combo.
You pay $8k for a product that is OK at best, and potentially shite and needs a warranty or major service fee in it's first year. They're just not a mature product yet IMO.
I think that's a bit exaggerated tbh. Yeah, there are problems but they are refined products by now but there are quite a few issues with reliability, repairability and noise that's true.
Definitely a bit exaggerated but on the right track. Ebikes are slowly getting lighter and more powerful but I feel like it is more of a technology plateau currently. I've owned my Turbo levo for 3, almost 4 years now and it's been a great bike. Other than having the motor replaced under warranty I've never had any motor/battery specific services. Just standard brake/tire/suspension maintenance. I'm not surprised with the current motor and battery issues with these bikes as most of the bigger brands are only on their 3rd or 4th iterations of e-mtb. so performance/reliability gains have been nominal but are still improving every year.
The motor on my Levo has never been loud enough to bother me, it's about what I'd expect for a motor putting out torque like that. I used to struggle on climbs so much to the point where I'd have to hop off and walk at least once or twice on a majority of climbs. However, the e-mtb changed that for me and let me ride much longer and further. It's gotten me to the point where I've gotten fit enough that I actually prefer riding my 'acoustic' bike now and have more stamina and strength than ever before and I definitely attribute that to the ebike as I never would've made those gains with my normal bike.
While having 1 motor replaced under warranty kinda sucks, I'm not too surprised given how premature these products are. Considering I didn't even have to pay for that replacement, my Levo hasn't cost anymore to maintain and ride than my other bikes and it's for sure been one of the best bike purchases I've ever made, but now I'm building up a druid v2
With the intube designs and bigger batteries full power ebikes got way heavier. Many brands have full power ebikes that weigh 26 kg or more.
Then the motor of the levo is more quiet because of the belt but that's what's also making it unreliable.
From what I'm hearing bosch seems to be quite reliable.
More electric suspension coming, for longer travel fork and shocks even dh
ebike are where the biggest development is going on. More mid power bikes that aren’t powerful enough.
give me a Bosch sx motor that puts out 85nm and around 2 hours use. Perfect (with some software changes it can be done now just not public)
Battery tech is there now for lighter batteries it would just cost too much
water ingress is a huge issue for e-bikes, they aren’t good enough yet we are still beta testers for them. The public doing R & D on behalf of a bike brand
Making a flight attendant only bike is technically a good idea, just expensive and kinda screams "custom". You're basically pigeonholed into using one specific suspension product on your complete model lineup. It's going to be hard to hit lower price points, you won't be able to cater to buyers that don't want Rock Shox or that don't want any batteries in their bikes even. It's a question if the gains of the a Flight Attendant focused frame are worth these limitations...
Idk with ebikes this electronic suspension stuff is kinda obsolete, at least when its not dh/traction focused. Water ingress and noise can be tackled on ebikes but it will add weight. and make maintenance more difficult.
You wouldnt be trying to hit price points, or cater to everyone, obviously, theres a number of limitations to a bike designed around FA.
youve mentioned several reasonings as to why we havent seen a bike designed around FA, but that doesnt mean that a bike designed around it couldnt be spectacular. It would be a risky venture for sure, but I'd be willing to bet, if one company did it (thinking someone small and premium, Forbidden, Crestline, WAO, etc) others might follow. Maybe even just a made to order custom bike, maybe someone like Zocelli or WTF could come up with something.
Definitely a niche market, but it could be very cool.
I wish I had a better understanding of suspension design to think of something
I think we've had more development than is being recognized.
The last major shift in geometry was during the SBG/reduced offset period where reaches grew to ~475 on L, following that about a year or two later they shifted up slightly another 8-10mm where they've largely settled. That was a pretty dramatic change that's obvious to most, but I think there have been other changes that have flown a bit under the radar.
The past few years have brought improvements in suspension kinematics, more suspension options with more features (e.g. HBO), more powerful brakes, more durable frames, unique carbon rims (eg Convergence), and a lot of improvement in tire casing options for more aggressive riding.
I don't think development has plateaued as much as the improvements we're seeing are more low key or not as well communicated/recognized, but they are definitely there. Riding a bike like the OG Carbon Smuggler is totally different feeling than riding a 120mm bike now, but the changes aren't as sweeping or well communicated/understood. There has also been a wider shift towards smaller brands doing manufacturing in Europe, UK, or US (REEB, Starling, Actofive, etc)
Actually my Relay is the best handling bike I've ever ridden. The 430 watt battery is plenty for a several hour long ride. I don't care one bit about the mediocre controller or the display, as all it does is give me an idea of how much juice I have and I usually notice it 2-5x over a several hour ride. It has more than enough power for my needs. The motor is reliable enough and they are rebuildable for a couple of hundred and last a few years anyways.
Electric motors are very old technology and don't have room for significant improvement. If my battery was made of air the bike would be 5#s lighter. In reality it's going to take 5-10 years to get even a 20% improvement in battery capacity/ weights.
E-bikes will for sure continue to improve. But with the introduction of the Fazua 60 motor and the new Bosch mid-power, proper e-bikes have in fact arrived and further improvements will be incremental. Geo, taken from bikes is already dialed and now the motor packages are as well.