MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Puneta
Posts
54
Joined
12/28/2022
Location
Phoenix, AZ US
3/22/2024 10:33am

Kudos to Pivot then for being the only brand to not put a diaper on their protos.

7
3
owl-x
Posts
846
Joined
3/23/2016
Location
Shell Beach, CA US
3/22/2024 10:49am
Puneta wrote:

Kudos to Pivot then for being the only brand to not put a diaper on their protos.

They glued theirs on. 

33
Eae903
Posts
346
Joined
10/20/2023
Location
Laramie, WY US
3/22/2024 11:29am

That canyon having a concentric axle pivot is really interesting, do we think it's a high single pivot with the axle pivot or something different with all the frame covered up?

3/22/2024 11:59am

I'm gonna cover all of our Sea Otter booth display bikes in black canvas with "DO NOT POST TO VITAL" graphics.

26
junkbox
Posts
8
Joined
3/19/2024
Location
Mt. Aetna, MD US
3/22/2024 12:03pm Edited Date/Time 3/22/2024 12:04pm

I don't get all the fuss about the diapers. Prototypes being tested/validated in public, while heavily camouflaged, is common in all industries. It protects under-development IP and also allows less-than-production-level parts to be used without the scrutiny of the public eye. We built an entire bunker to hide our test vehicles when they weren't on the road, and when they were on the road they had zebra camo and fake grilles, etc. It's great for concealing parts that are being rapidly developed, especially when some iterations might only be used for a single test cycle. 

9
2
3/22/2024 12:26pm
junkbox wrote:
I don't get all the fuss about the diapers. Prototypes being tested/validated in public, while heavily camouflaged, is common in all industries. It protects under-development IP...

I don't get all the fuss about the diapers. Prototypes being tested/validated in public, while heavily camouflaged, is common in all industries. It protects under-development IP and also allows less-than-production-level parts to be used without the scrutiny of the public eye. We built an entire bunker to hide our test vehicles when they weren't on the road, and when they were on the road they had zebra camo and fake grilles, etc. It's great for concealing parts that are being rapidly developed, especially when some iterations might only be used for a single test cycle. 

It's Streisand effect. 

99% of people wouldn't notice the difference in the bike passing by on the trail. Wrap the same bike in a cover to keep it "secret" and now everyone notices.

6
1
3/22/2024 12:42pm
junkbox wrote:
I don't get all the fuss about the diapers. Prototypes being tested/validated in public, while heavily camouflaged, is common in all industries. It protects under-development IP...

I don't get all the fuss about the diapers. Prototypes being tested/validated in public, while heavily camouflaged, is common in all industries. It protects under-development IP and also allows less-than-production-level parts to be used without the scrutiny of the public eye. We built an entire bunker to hide our test vehicles when they weren't on the road, and when they were on the road they had zebra camo and fake grilles, etc. It's great for concealing parts that are being rapidly developed, especially when some iterations might only be used for a single test cycle. 

It's Streisand effect.  99% of people wouldn't notice the difference in the bike passing by on the trail. Wrap the same bike in a cover to...

It's Streisand effect. 

99% of people wouldn't notice the difference in the bike passing by on the trail. Wrap the same bike in a cover to keep it "secret" and now everyone notices.

People will absolutely notice, are you for real? We have an entire thread dedicated to leaking new stuff. People leak embargoed images and information just for some E-Clout, damn rights they'll take a photo and put it online. At least the diaper builds hype without showing what the product is. 

2
ZAKBROWN!
Posts
97
Joined
8/28/2009
Location
Salt Lake City, UT US
3/22/2024 1:06pm
junkbox wrote:
I don't get all the fuss about the diapers. Prototypes being tested/validated in public, while heavily camouflaged, is common in all industries. It protects under-development IP...

I don't get all the fuss about the diapers. Prototypes being tested/validated in public, while heavily camouflaged, is common in all industries. It protects under-development IP and also allows less-than-production-level parts to be used without the scrutiny of the public eye. We built an entire bunker to hide our test vehicles when they weren't on the road, and when they were on the road they had zebra camo and fake grilles, etc. It's great for concealing parts that are being rapidly developed, especially when some iterations might only be used for a single test cycle. 

It's Streisand effect.  99% of people wouldn't notice the difference in the bike passing by on the trail. Wrap the same bike in a cover to...

It's Streisand effect. 

99% of people wouldn't notice the difference in the bike passing by on the trail. Wrap the same bike in a cover to keep it "secret" and now everyone notices.

People will absolutely notice, are you for real? We have an entire thread dedicated to leaking new stuff. People leak embargoed images and information just for...

People will absolutely notice, are you for real? We have an entire thread dedicated to leaking new stuff. People leak embargoed images and information just for some E-Clout, damn rights they'll take a photo and put it online. At least the diaper builds hype without showing what the product is. 

IDK, I think us nerds overestimate the average rider's capacity to care.  I used to test a bit and rode uncovered bikes with no graphics - nobody ever asked me about the bikes, even riders on the same brand.

 

9
1
monarchmason
Posts
283
Joined
5/24/2022
Location
Nevada City, CA US
3/22/2024 1:22pm
junkbox wrote:
I don't get all the fuss about the diapers. Prototypes being tested/validated in public, while heavily camouflaged, is common in all industries. It protects under-development IP...

I don't get all the fuss about the diapers. Prototypes being tested/validated in public, while heavily camouflaged, is common in all industries. It protects under-development IP and also allows less-than-production-level parts to be used without the scrutiny of the public eye. We built an entire bunker to hide our test vehicles when they weren't on the road, and when they were on the road they had zebra camo and fake grilles, etc. It's great for concealing parts that are being rapidly developed, especially when some iterations might only be used for a single test cycle. 

Bunkers for cars? I know this is a mtb thread but you got a wiki link for this car testing bunker? Sounds cool. 

3/22/2024 1:52pm

Bunkers for cars? I know this is a mtb thread but you got a wiki link for this car testing bunker? Sounds cool. 

This isn't that, but VW intentionally built a test track in a no fly zone for pretty much the same reason https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehra-Lessien

4
boozed
Posts
644
Joined
6/11/2019
Location
AU
3/22/2024 2:31pm Edited Date/Time 3/22/2024 2:32pm
sspomer wrote:

sorry, i was being sarcastic about having a bike tuxedo on full-time

Sarcastic or not, you should file a patent application before the big boys do. Laughing

On the subject of surreptitious automotive testing, I remember reading stories of some European brands building test mules with other manufacturers' grilles to throw off (or just as likely attract the attention of) the motoring press, until they were politely asked by the trademark owners to knock it off.  Has that level of chicanery been seen in the MTB world?

peecee
Posts
425
Joined
5/12/2013
Location
Brisbane AU
3/22/2024 2:38pm Edited Date/Time 3/22/2024 2:39pm
Losifer wrote:

Funny, I was thinking the same thing- bike washing is gonna be way easier. It’s like a nitrile glove for your DH bike!

I don’t know if it’s so prevalent these days but back in the late 90’s early 00’s mechanics would cover the bars and discs and spray the whole bike with teflon lube something like GT85. 
These bikes in the UK would come down cleaner than everyone else and what little mud was on them would wash off super easy. 

Neoprene would hold onto water in a wet race making it heavier so prob.not the best idea 

1
3/22/2024 3:28pm Edited Date/Time 3/22/2024 3:29pm
junkbox wrote:
I don't get all the fuss about the diapers. Prototypes being tested/validated in public, while heavily camouflaged, is common in all industries. It protects under-development IP...

I don't get all the fuss about the diapers. Prototypes being tested/validated in public, while heavily camouflaged, is common in all industries. It protects under-development IP and also allows less-than-production-level parts to be used without the scrutiny of the public eye. We built an entire bunker to hide our test vehicles when they weren't on the road, and when they were on the road they had zebra camo and fake grilles, etc. It's great for concealing parts that are being rapidly developed, especially when some iterations might only be used for a single test cycle. 

It's Streisand effect.  99% of people wouldn't notice the difference in the bike passing by on the trail. Wrap the same bike in a cover to...

It's Streisand effect. 

99% of people wouldn't notice the difference in the bike passing by on the trail. Wrap the same bike in a cover to keep it "secret" and now everyone notices.

People will absolutely notice, are you for real? We have an entire thread dedicated to leaking new stuff. People leak embargoed images and information just for...

People will absolutely notice, are you for real? We have an entire thread dedicated to leaking new stuff. People leak embargoed images and information just for some E-Clout, damn rights they'll take a photo and put it online. At least the diaper builds hype without showing what the product is. 

Those of us here geeking out over this shit are 1% of bike geeks. The diaper does nothing to stop us from digging it up and nerding out over it. 

The same dude who almost ran you over on the way to the bike park because he had his head buried in his phone is not going to notice that there is a different idler on someone else's bike. Most of the population walks around blissfully unaware of their surroundings. 

12
Roots_rider
Posts
85
Joined
5/8/2010
Location
Jackson, WY US
3/22/2024 3:41pm Edited Date/Time 3/22/2024 3:43pm
Eae903 wrote:
That canyon having a concentric axle pivot is really interesting, do we think it's a high single pivot with the axle pivot or something different with...

That canyon having a concentric axle pivot is really interesting, do we think it's a high single pivot with the axle pivot or something different with all the frame covered up?

IMG 7970 0.jpeg?VersionId=588WzofS99FPguusl4lkTCzYjG
 

my guess with the concentric rear pivot. Hard to tell if the brake is on the the chainstay or seatstay though. This design would typically be chainstay mounted. 
lots of bulk down by the bb though also. Hard to say what else could be going on

11
3/22/2024 3:45pm

Maybe they're just covering up a wate bottle cage. That's pretty cutting edge on a DH bike. 

15
3/22/2024 3:53pm
Eae903 wrote:
That canyon having a concentric axle pivot is really interesting, do we think it's a high single pivot with the axle pivot or something different with...

That canyon having a concentric axle pivot is really interesting, do we think it's a high single pivot with the axle pivot or something different with all the frame covered up?

  my guess with the concentric rear pivot. Hard to tell if the brake is on the the chainstay or seatstay though. This design would typically...

IMG 7970 0.jpeg?VersionId=588WzofS99FPguusl4lkTCzYjG
 

my guess with the concentric rear pivot. Hard to tell if the brake is on the the chainstay or seatstay though. This design would typically be chainstay mounted. 
lots of bulk down by the bb though also. Hard to say what else could be going on

This is a very interesting angle of the bike because it shows them using the Trek ABP or Weigle’s split pivot, where the chainstay and seatstay join at the rear axle.

This design makes the rear suspension very feel feeling under braking. Low Anti rise. 

 

1
1
Puneta
Posts
54
Joined
12/28/2022
Location
Phoenix, AZ US
3/22/2024 4:06pm

IMG 0387.png?VersionId=jeAhH2.yidRi2di0ItYTUwuj o
some gold lowers from fox. 

21
brash
Posts
941
Joined
4/24/2019
Location
AU
3/22/2024 6:00pm

lmao... you had one job!

2
ahleic09
Posts
76
Joined
7/25/2018
Location
Bend, OR US
3/22/2024 6:15pm
Eae903 wrote:
That canyon having a concentric axle pivot is really interesting, do we think it's a high single pivot with the axle pivot or something different with...

That canyon having a concentric axle pivot is really interesting, do we think it's a high single pivot with the axle pivot or something different with all the frame covered up?

  my guess with the concentric rear pivot. Hard to tell if the brake is on the the chainstay or seatstay though. This design would typically...

IMG 7970 0.jpeg?VersionId=588WzofS99FPguusl4lkTCzYjG
 

my guess with the concentric rear pivot. Hard to tell if the brake is on the the chainstay or seatstay though. This design would typically be chainstay mounted. 
lots of bulk down by the bb though also. Hard to say what else could be going on

Probably something that looks a lot like a Devinci Wilson, although the profile isn’t too far off their current offering. Split pivot does offer really nice characteristics under braking 

boozed
Posts
644
Joined
6/11/2019
Location
AU
3/22/2024 6:51pm
Eae903 wrote:
That canyon having a concentric axle pivot is really interesting, do we think it's a high single pivot with the axle pivot or something different with...

That canyon having a concentric axle pivot is really interesting, do we think it's a high single pivot with the axle pivot or something different with all the frame covered up?

  my guess with the concentric rear pivot. Hard to tell if the brake is on the the chainstay or seatstay though. This design would typically...

IMG 7970 0.jpeg?VersionId=588WzofS99FPguusl4lkTCzYjG
 

my guess with the concentric rear pivot. Hard to tell if the brake is on the the chainstay or seatstay though. This design would typically be chainstay mounted. 
lots of bulk down by the bb though also. Hard to say what else could be going on

ahleic09 wrote:
Probably something that looks a lot like a Devinci Wilson, although the profile isn’t too far off their current offering. Split pivot does offer really nice...

Probably something that looks a lot like a Devinci Wilson, although the profile isn’t too far off their current offering. Split pivot does offer really nice characteristics under braking 

Split Pivot and Horst are almost identical, kinematically.  I doubt that's a major reason for switching between the two.

1
dknapton
Posts
54
Joined
11/5/2020
Location
CA
3/22/2024 7:50pm

Heard that Charger 3.1 dampener upgrade coming out in June, and that it's features more high compression/adjustment. That the current version, the high speed adjuster really doesn't do much and doesn't add enough compression, and something along the lines of using the new Boxxer piston, which flows more oil. That part I could be remembering incorrectly though

2
Evil96
Posts
802
Joined
8/21/2014
Location
Portogruaro, VE IT
3/22/2024 10:34pm
dknapton wrote:
Heard that Charger 3.1 dampener upgrade coming out in June, and that it's features more high compression/adjustment. That the current version, the high speed adjuster really...

Heard that Charger 3.1 dampener upgrade coming out in June, and that it's features more high compression/adjustment. That the current version, the high speed adjuster really doesn't do much and doesn't add enough compression, and something along the lines of using the new Boxxer piston, which flows more oil. That part I could be remembering incorrectly though

the current charger 3 doesn't do much at all, full closed or open lsc or hsc are barely noticeable, on the Grip 2 it has a more defined difference

8
3/23/2024 12:44am
Eae903 wrote:
That canyon having a concentric axle pivot is really interesting, do we think it's a high single pivot with the axle pivot or something different with...

That canyon having a concentric axle pivot is really interesting, do we think it's a high single pivot with the axle pivot or something different with all the frame covered up?

Yeah I noticed the split pivot too, definitely something more going on here… I suspect a mid-high pivot?

3/23/2024 12:52am
  my guess with the concentric rear pivot. Hard to tell if the brake is on the the chainstay or seatstay though. This design would typically...

IMG 7970 0.jpeg?VersionId=588WzofS99FPguusl4lkTCzYjG
 

my guess with the concentric rear pivot. Hard to tell if the brake is on the the chainstay or seatstay though. This design would typically be chainstay mounted. 
lots of bulk down by the bb though also. Hard to say what else could be going on

You just drew a Devinci Wilson, I doubt it’s that straight forward, I doubt Canyon would do a direct copy like that, but they could put a slight spin on the same design…

3/23/2024 12:53am
dknapton wrote:
Heard that Charger 3.1 dampener upgrade coming out in June, and that it's features more high compression/adjustment. That the current version, the high speed adjuster really...

Heard that Charger 3.1 dampener upgrade coming out in June, and that it's features more high compression/adjustment. That the current version, the high speed adjuster really doesn't do much and doesn't add enough compression, and something along the lines of using the new Boxxer piston, which flows more oil. That part I could be remembering incorrectly though

I’m sure the new ZEB will have a version of the new boxxer air spring as well

5
sethimus
Posts
870
Joined
9/20/2014
Location
CH
3/23/2024 2:30am
Puneta wrote:
some gold lowers from fox. 

IMG 0387.png?VersionId=jeAhH2.yidRi2di0ItYTUwuj o
some gold lowers from fox. 

russian edition

4
3
Primoz
Posts
4519
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
3/23/2024 2:43am
  my guess with the concentric rear pivot. Hard to tell if the brake is on the the chainstay or seatstay though. This design would typically...

IMG 7970 0.jpeg?VersionId=588WzofS99FPguusl4lkTCzYjG
 

my guess with the concentric rear pivot. Hard to tell if the brake is on the the chainstay or seatstay though. This design would typically be chainstay mounted. 
lots of bulk down by the bb though also. Hard to say what else could be going on

ahleic09 wrote:
Probably something that looks a lot like a Devinci Wilson, although the profile isn’t too far off their current offering. Split pivot does offer really nice...

Probably something that looks a lot like a Devinci Wilson, although the profile isn’t too far off their current offering. Split pivot does offer really nice characteristics under braking 

boozed wrote:

Split Pivot and Horst are almost identical, kinematically.  I doubt that's a major reason for switching between the two.

Antirise wise yes, antisquat wise no. 

3
veefour
Posts
851
Joined
7/31/2016
Location
Cinderford GB
3/23/2024 2:49am
Puneta wrote:
some gold lowers from fox. 

IMG 0387.png?VersionId=jeAhH2.yidRi2di0ItYTUwuj o
some gold lowers from fox. 

I love gold the look of it the taste of it the smell of it the texture. I love gold so much that I even lost my genitalia in an unfortunate schmelting accident.

27
3/23/2024 3:07am

Given how high the seat stays seem to be connected to the front triangle on the new Canyon, I wouldn't be surprised if it is a 6 bars design. 

3
boozed
Posts
644
Joined
6/11/2019
Location
AU
3/23/2024 4:05am Edited Date/Time 3/23/2024 4:06am
ahleic09 wrote:
Probably something that looks a lot like a Devinci Wilson, although the profile isn’t too far off their current offering. Split pivot does offer really nice...

Probably something that looks a lot like a Devinci Wilson, although the profile isn’t too far off their current offering. Split pivot does offer really nice characteristics under braking 

boozed wrote:

Split Pivot and Horst are almost identical, kinematically.  I doubt that's a major reason for switching between the two.

Primoz wrote:

Antirise wise yes, antisquat wise no. 

Does the relatively small offset between the pivot and the axle really have that much of an impact?  A Gen5 Trek Slash's anti-squat curve looks an awful lot like many contemporary Horst frames, after all.

1
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