What is the stiffest casing, what is the most pinch resistant tire?

alexshiskin
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Kelowna, BC CA
Edited Date/Time 3/1/2024 9:41pm

So I hate flat tires, but I get them all the time because I weigh 240lbs, always rear.  I'm just running tubes in my rear these days because I fix it on the trail....and once the tubes in I just leave it.....until I pop it again.  I run 32psi front and back, so I don't wan to run MORE pressure.  I have good rims and can support tubeless.  We are one convergence triad 27.5's on my 170F/165R transition scout.  I'm not really worried about the weight of my tires.  Right now I'm running a 2.4 EXO+ maxxis DHR 2.  I ride on hardpack dirt and rocks mainly higher speed flow.

I'm looking for a DH tire with a really stiff casing that can help prevent pinch flats.  I'd like to stick with 2.4, but can't go over 2.6.  I'm also interested in opinions on inserts.  I've read a bunch of opinions on inserts, I'm leaning toward trying to avoid them.   I'm not tied to maxis and I've been a fan of Schwalbe, and I'm open to other brands as well.

What is a really pinch resistant tire good for hard terrain with a high rolling speed.  What is the stiffest casing between brands? 

2
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3/2/2024 12:30am

What is a really pinch resistant tire good for hard terrain with a high rolling speed. What is the stiffest casing between brands? 

 

​​​​​​​​​Unfortunately stiff casings are slower rolling, so there is a trade-off here you can't avoid (the tyre consumes more energy deforming to trail as it's stiffer and therefore rolls slower). 

However running them at such high PSI as you do, a lot of it will be mitigated. 

I would say the Schwalbe DH casing or Michelin DH is the stiffest I've personally dealt with, but it is only marginal back to Maxxis. If you want to maximise rolling speed (and cost) however you will be wanting harder compounds with DH casing. 

Michelin is out imo, they are fantastic tyres, but amongst the slowest rolling I've ever used. DH34 bike park is a bargain but not the most pinch resistant. 

 

Schwalbe is excellent, very stiff casings, you might not be able to get the DH casings without their ultra soft rubber however. And I'm not the biggest fan of Magic Mary on hard pack. The super gravity tyres are a big step up from the exo+ you've been using so well worth a shot. 

DHR2 is an obvious choice in DH (just don't get Maxxx grip) very reliable and plenty strong. 

The new Conti's are fantastic, I haven't tried DH casing, just the enduro but also an excellent option that is moderately fast rolling for the strength. 

 

6
Dave_Camp
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CO US
3/2/2024 9:50am

Schwalbe DH or Michelin DH

both seem to be a level stiffer than maxxis DH casings.  

4
TEAMROBOT
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3/2/2024 1:51pm Edited Date/Time 3/2/2024 5:45pm

I'm only 190 pounds but like the OP I've always been hard on rear tires and wheels, and the only setup that's worked for me is Maxxis DH casings with Cushcore Pro in the rear. The new Schwalbe or Michelin DH casings are the stiffest casings money can buy, even heavier and tougher than a Maxxis DH casing, but as others have said those tires only come in the softest slowest rolling rubber compound. Michelin does have the "bike park" DH tires which have a faster rolling rubber, but as someone else said they don't have the same robust DH casing. The goldilocks tire is the new Maxxis bike park tires, available in the DHF, DHR2, and Assegai with a full DH casing and the hard compound (Maxxis calls it their "dual compound," but it's hard). That's what I run as my rear tire because it's tough and it rolls fast, and as a side benefit harder compound tires also last longer. But unfortunately for your application on a Scout with a 27.5" rear wheel, the Maxxis Bike Park tires currently only come in a 29" size.

For a fast rolling rear 27.5 rear tire with a robust sidewall, I agree that a Super Gravity Schwalbe rear tire in their Addix Soft compound is probably your best bet. The new Super Gravity casing is still tough, it's kinda comparable to a Maxxis DH or DD casing, and the "Addix Soft" compound is actually Schwalbe's hard compound option, despite the name. The true soft compound is called "Addix Super Soft," because nothing can ever be simple and tire names are confusing. 

So I'd recommend either trying a Super Gravity tire with "Addix Super Soft" rubber from Schwalbe and a Cushcore insert if you want to maximum rolling speed and durability, or if you're willing to deal with a slow rolling/fast wearing tire and/or you don't want to deal with inserts, I'd recommend a Michelin or Schwalbe DH tire. Sorry there's no silver bullet for your situation, but with either of these options you should be able to come down from your current 32 psi pressure and flat a lot less. I wouldn't be surprised if your rolling speed is actually faster in many situations from having a lower, more supple PSI.

5
acambo
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AU
3/2/2024 7:21pm

Anything is going to be a decent improvement over exo+, I'm only about 65kg and have ripped through a exo+ dissector on its second ride on a relatively smooth berm track.  Sticking with Maxxis, you can get a DHR2 in DD maxx terra which has pretty good rolling resistance and would be significantly stronger especially with an insert. 

I haven't tried them but I know Continental makes there rear tyres in a Downhill casing and a harder "soft" compound. They have the Kryptotal rear which is DHR clone and also the Xynotal which is more specialized for hardpack.

I have also had good luck with Ethirteen tyres. You can get the enduro casing in a faster rolling compound. Had one on the rear of my bike and dinged/flat spotted a EX511 on a rock bad enough to not hold air but the tyre didn't have a mark on it.

3
synBike
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North Vancouver, BC CA
3/2/2024 8:01pm

If you are currently running EXO+ the bar for improvement is really low. Any downhill casing will be massively more resitant to damage than that. 240lbs isn't that heavy but if you are riding hard DH casing over Double Down might be preferred. 

Easy upgrade would be DHR2 Maxx-Terra DH casing. TB00472700. There are faster rolling tread patterns like a Dissector but they come with other comproses. High Roller 2 is a bit faster with a different cornering profile. You can get Maxx-Terra DD TB85983100. 

Nothing against other DH tires but they generally have tread profiles that are much less friendly towards pedalling (Magic Mary/Assegai/Contis)

 

3
thejake
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Carnation, WA US
3/3/2024 7:54am

I weigh about the same as you and I’ve been running cushcore with Maxxis DH casing. I live in the PNW and my local trails are not super rocky so pinch flats are not a huge concern but it seems like a pretty bomb proof set up. I’ve heard good things about Michelin and just got some Continentals on my one bike but haven’t rode them yet.  My buddy that has Continentals was really impressed with them. 

2
mfoga
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3/3/2024 8:11am

Switch back to 26 and get the intense Dh tires.  Pinch proof Grinning

10
TEAMROBOT
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3/3/2024 9:45am Edited Date/Time 3/3/2024 9:46am
synBike wrote:
If you are currently running EXO+ the bar for improvement is really low. Any downhill casing will be massively more resitant to damage than that. 240lbs...

If you are currently running EXO+ the bar for improvement is really low. Any downhill casing will be massively more resitant to damage than that. 240lbs isn't that heavy but if you are riding hard DH casing over Double Down might be preferred. 

Easy upgrade would be DHR2 Maxx-Terra DH casing. TB00472700. There are faster rolling tread patterns like a Dissector but they come with other comproses. High Roller 2 is a bit faster with a different cornering profile. You can get Maxx-Terra DD TB85983100. 

Nothing against other DH tires but they generally have tread profiles that are much less friendly towards pedalling (Magic Mary/Assegai/Contis)

 

This is a great tip. I didn't know the TB00472700 existed! I literally checked the Maxxis website before writing my comment to see if they have a hard compound 27.5" DH tire yet, and the TB00472700 isn't listed on the DHR2 page on the Maxxis site. This is great for heavy/tough enduro and trail riders who need a fast rolling but robust rear tire. Agree that this would be the best option for the OP. The Vital forums continue to be the best place for niche MTB knowledge on the internet. Thanks for the knowledge drop.

6
kcyeeto
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Liberty, MO US
3/4/2024 10:06am

Look into the Specialized Cannibals. They're slightly cheaper than other brands and they're the most supportive feeling tire I have ever ridden. Also only made in a 2.4 width and DH casing. Seem to be a good do it all tire with the exception of really deep dirt/mud. I've never ridden the Michelin DH tires but have heard those are equally as heavy and supportive. 

1
3/4/2024 10:31am Edited Date/Time 3/4/2024 10:34am

With the caveat that I don't know how they will work in BC (which is your stated location), I was quite impressed with the Goodyear MTF/MTR combo when I tested them. Definitely a big step up in stiffness/pinch resistance from a Maxxis EXO+ (which isn't saying that much, as others have already pointed out), without too much of a rolling speed penalty (I tested the "Enduro" version which weighs almost as much as the DH version). I really liked them in fast, rocky terrain. https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/First-Ride-All-New-Goodyear-Newton-MT….

Michelin has also been mentioned several times here already, the "Wild Enduro" might be a good middle ground between DH weights and EXO+. They are plenty stiff (I also really like them in fast, rocky terrain, but they are perhaps a bit less forgiving than the aforementioned Goodyears - they do work really well the faster you go though, which is always a cool feeling).

1
gibbon
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wales GB
3/4/2024 10:36am

Schwalbe Marathon Plus.....if you know,you know.

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TEAMROBOT
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3/4/2024 10:43am
gibbon wrote:

Schwalbe Marathon Plus.....if you know,you know.

This actually is the stiffest casing known to man. RIP thumbs

6
3/4/2024 1:10pm

How do the WTB Tough/Fast Rolling tires hold up as rear tires? 

1
3/4/2024 4:34pm
gibbon wrote:

Schwalbe Marathon Plus.....if you know,you know.

Marathon E-Plus…let’s not play around here.

 

But to give an honest opinion and as mentioned before, there is a ton of tyres that have better pinch protection than EXO+ !

I really liked the aggressor in DD conversion…rolling resistance seemed very decent to me.

I am currently riding the Continentals but can’t give you longterm results. They feel sturdy though.

A few years ago I was very pleased with Hutchinsons but no Idea how their new lineup is.

Specialized Grid Gravity casing can take some serious abuse and the Eliminator and Purgatory roll okay for gravity oriented tyres plus they have a interesting price tag.

I was very pleased with the heavier casing of the Versus Tyres as well tbh. They felt like Maxxis 

I know that a lot of people say Schwalbe got this sorted out but working in a bikeshop I still see tons of their tyres having that weird Schwalbe wobble. Arguably you won’t feel it while riding but it annoys me to the core and we refuse to mount them (just MTB tyres) because it’s terrible to look at if you hand over a bike with a dead straight rim after service but the tyre decides to go outside of the chainstay around your frontend to finally come back for a quarter turn and then do the same thing to the other side.                                                 The ridefeel though felt very pleasant whenever I gave them another shot

Never tried any of the other mentioned such as Michelin, Goodyear etc.

 

1
lando
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Missoula, MT US
3/4/2024 6:48pm

Schwalbe Eddy Current. Nuff said.

3
jsray
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Gilbert, AZ US
3/4/2024 7:36pm

At 160lbs and 28psi, I took the CC insert out and pinched a brand new DHR II DD 29 2.4. Pissed me right off. Unlucky? Maybe. But probably not. 

I’ve also attempted to run EXO+ with insert at 28psi and also pinched one. 

Tire life is also a consideration. The carcass does wear out over time and miles. And as others have said, your bar is already pretty low with EXO+. 

Get the DH casing from 3 big brands and test them! Post your findings, id read that.

 

1
3/4/2024 9:22pm

You hate flat tyres, but run EXO+ with tube on the rear? As others have mentioned there's plenty of room for experimetation to increase durability.

For starters, you can keep you current tyre, convert to tubeless and add an insert. Rimpact Pro is a good compromise between durability, weight and ease of installation.

If you are ok with getting a new tyre go for Schwalbe Supergravity Soft of Maxxis DD Maxxterra. There is also a DD Aggressor in Dual compound, often found in the German sites but only in 2.3. I would still use the insert with the beefier casing. 

Third option is to go for a full blown DH casing, but as mentioned you often get the softest compound with these, which means slow rolling and fast wearing. 

When my only bike was my hardtail and I wanted to safely ride anything I used Supergravity MM with an insert. My rim never got any extra dents after that. Now I'm on a 150/140mm bike similar to your Scout but still value peace of mind. I had good results with Schwalbe Big Betty/Hans Dampf Supertrail + insert at 25psi but currently use Conti Xynotal Enduro Soft + insert. The Xynotal tread is quite fast for how grippy it is, esp. on any kind of hard surface. It still works fine on soft and loose and provides excellent braking traction. I was surprized by how well it works on wet rocks given that it's their intermediate compound. Beats Maxxterra and Schwalbe Soft in wet grip but doesn't wera any faster or roll any slower. The enduro casing is something between EXO+ and DD, maybe leaning more towards EXO+. So far no problems but I'm only 155lbs. Our terrain is full of sharp rocks though, so weak casings usually get slashed before the tread wears.

  

1
Mugen
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3/5/2024 1:26am
lando wrote:

Schwalbe Eddy Current. Nuff said.

Not much to add, they come in "soft" rather that ultra soft, weigh upward of 1400g, the thread rolls somewhat ok. I am not exaggerating when I say that I could ride them with 10psi, I was usually running the rear around 18psi (I weigh 75kg = 165lbs) and hammering down rocky track without a care in the world (my recently deceased ex511 rim might say otherwise).

Only negative is you might be restricted to 2.6".

Amaury Pierron won Fort William on them, which is basically the only test that matters.

3
3/5/2024 6:15am

I love you guys. Great stuff here. I hate the weight of inserts. BUT! Man do I love having no issues with squirm, pinching, burping and riding out when I do tear a sidewall (about thrice a season on avg here in the Rockies) even though you’ve read some stuff, and also knowing that they aren’t for everyone, I highly recommend Cush core. 210-215 lbs and turning every trail ride into a dh run? But still pedaling deep and high? I just kept having issues with every tire and every rim and every ride a couple years back, went full Cush core pro and was able to run whatever tire I found in the trash behind the shop. Now I’m about to buy new tires for the first time in a while and while I think dh casing might solve my old issues, I’m very satisfied with what Cush core has done to my rides here. 

1
Batts
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Ballston Spa, NY US
3/5/2024 6:46am

I can't imagine running EXO+ with a tube.  I am about 205lbs and I have 2 wheel sets, one with trail tires and the other with DH tires for park/enduro race weekends (2 wheel sets is cheaper than 2 bikes).  Currently on my trail wheels are EXO+ as I got the tire cheap and I am running high psi, like 28, but it is out of fear of flatting.  Normally I run a DD Maxx Terra on the back and it holds up great at about 24-26psi.  The DH tires just wear out too quick and the rolling resistance sucks but if they made Maxx Terra DHR's with a DH casing I would be all over them.  

- With e-bikes sales blowing up I am shocked that we are not seeing tire companies making more tires with stiffer side walls and longer lasting compounds.  If I put a DH Maxx Grip on my e-bike it would last about 4 rides as I usually avoid driving to the trails on my E and my rides are significantly longer.  Currently running a DD Maxx Terra on my e-bike and run 28-30psi to avoid flats.  Tire weight doesn't bother me on the E and honestly rolling resistance is not an issue, it's just that the DH soft compounds don't last at $80-$100 per tires. 

1
3/5/2024 7:55am

I'm not quite your weight but geared up probably 220ish. I have experimented a lot with tires, pressures, inserts etc... after a season of pinching 5 maxxis tires including DH casing. Here are the conclusions I've come to.

1. For a narrow (2.4") tire, pressure is king... I'm also around the 32psi mark on a dh tire. With this set up.. I've destroyed rims but not tires. I added a cushcore on a dh tire running 30psi now and it works. Overkill? probably.... I'll be looking to tone it back a bit this year for efficiency.

2. Volume is king overall.... I ride the same trails on a hardtail of mine and use a 2.6" DHR2 exo+ with an xc cushcore at 28psi (tried to keep the hardtail reasonably light and comfortable).... 3 seasons now of every type of riding... including rocky double black at a good pace etc... the extra volume of the 2.6 with a taller sidewall really does help dissipate the forces before it pins the tire on the rim.

I guess the conclusion is... with larger volume you can downgrade the casing and still avoid pinch flats... sidewall cuts are a different story though.

schwalbai
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Victoria, BC CA
3/5/2024 7:56am
lando wrote:

Schwalbe Eddy Current. Nuff said.

Yep, was just going to recommend the same thing, Eddy Current Rear.

Smallest width for a 27.5 is a 2.60", but at 240lbs you would have a better ride quality with a wider tire.
On your Triad's (30mm internal), they'd measure just under 2.60". This is because the industry standard is to measure 2.60" on a 35mm internal rim width.
This tread is optimized for high load applications with a long tread life (i've heard of people taking a hot knife to square off edges on this tire).


Makes sense you want to shoot for the stars with a Downhill casing after dealing with EXO+, but the Super Gravity would more than suffice. It has 4 layers of 67epi carcass on the sidewalls and a sidewall support layer (Apex) that runs halfway up the sidewall.  https://www.schwalbetires.com/technology-faq/mtb-casing/

1
Applejack
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granada hills, CA US
3/5/2024 8:04am

How about those new Michelin enduro tires that were just released?  Supposedly, they were designed to avoid using inserts.

1
matmattmatthew
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Fresh Prince of Bel Air, MD US
3/5/2024 8:26am

Bring back Tire Balls!   tireballs %281%29

4
krisrayner
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San Luis Obispo, CA US
3/5/2024 8:45am

250lbs and on a short travel bike here. Currently running WTB Tough casing Trail Boss rear with Cush core 30psi, Vigilante front. No flats and good mid turn support. I’ve torn up plenty of Maxxis tires and don’t think I’ll go back. Also ran Schwalbe Eddy Currents on my ebike with zero problems. 

1
isack
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Bozeman, MT US
3/5/2024 9:06am
krisrayner wrote:
250lbs and on a short travel bike here. Currently running WTB Tough casing Trail Boss rear with Cush core 30psi, Vigilante front. No flats and good...

250lbs and on a short travel bike here. Currently running WTB Tough casing Trail Boss rear with Cush core 30psi, Vigilante front. No flats and good mid turn support. I’ve torn up plenty of Maxxis tires and don’t think I’ll go back. Also ran Schwalbe Eddy Currents on my ebike with zero problems. 

I'm 145lbs and have pinch flatted and slashed WTB tough tires at 25 psi. Toughest tires I've seen are Specialized DH casing tires.

1
Puneta
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Phoenix, AZ US
3/5/2024 3:23pm

Contis are pretty solid. Have good grip and side walls are bomb proof. Kryptotals front and rear in downhill casing with soft compound should be money! 

6
3/5/2024 10:18pm
Puneta wrote:

Contis are pretty solid. Have good grip and side walls are bomb proof. Kryptotals front and rear in downhill casing with soft compound should be money! 

sure, bombproof most of the time. But if you are hard on tires, specially rear tires, and ride tons of  bikepark (with high speed tracks), michelin dh34 racing line 26psi and forget about it. Super hard casing, almost impossible to notice any squirm or casign deflection while intentionally schralping of poor technique with slightly lower than ideal air pressure..  this one even pedals better than Kryptotal Re soft (DH) as its a good thread and low volume , at least for me.

1
Mugen
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3/6/2024 2:25am

Have only been on them for 2 weeks, but the Vittoria Mazza's which Vital rated very highly last year have a pretty interesting construction, there is clearly a layer of very stiff material in the side walls. I'm quite optimistic these will hold up for a while. (I am on the e-mazza which is effectively their second heaviest carcass, ~1250g for a 27.5 2.6 tyre).

IMeasure
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AU
3/6/2024 2:52am
Mugen wrote:
Have only been on them for 2 weeks, but the Vittoria Mazza's which Vital rated very highly last year have a pretty interesting construction, there is...

Have only been on them for 2 weeks, but the Vittoria Mazza's which Vital rated very highly last year have a pretty interesting construction, there is clearly a layer of very stiff material in the side walls. I'm quite optimistic these will hold up for a while. (I am on the e-mazza which is effectively their second heaviest carcass, ~1250g for a 27.5 2.6 tyre).

Have found the Mazza Enduro casing on the rear to hold up really well (but I'm a light weight ). Avoid the trail casing as a rear as it is not nearly as durable. Managed to pinch flat and then punch a hole in the trail casing in a single ride.

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