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Sorry to detail the rumors thread. Back to rumors:
hope that new altitude comes out today
Moimoi’s bike does not have an idler and Vali’s does (or did).
To chime in on this, I was aware of the piston massage before I received my set of Mavens for review and had the procedure explained to me prior to setup. I chose to not do it for two reasons.
1) Ive ridden every Avid/SRAM hydraulic brake since the Juicy Seven and have only ever needed to do that procedure when cleaning the pistons, not on a brand new brake setup.
2) The average consumer throws the owners manual away immediately and then starts a forum topic to help fix their problem. I wanted to give that experience a try to see what kind of problems I would run into.
The problems I ran into on my first ride were a wandering bite point and intermittent power which was far from what I expected. I thought the lever felt exactly like a Code for the most part with a pretty firm lever pull. I figured since SRAM pistons are able to rotate slightly within the caliper, its easy for them to drag on the lip of the caliper. The piston massage seems to help eliminate that drag by getting them all centered and moving in the same direction. After the piston massage, the bite point became consistent, and after a few descents, the lever feel lightened up considerably and resulted in my front wheel locking up with pretty minimal effort on steep descents. I think if I had just left them in the stand Id be in agreement that the lever feel didnt change.
That being said, if the brakes that cost twice as much as the Mavens are capable of making more power with less effort I am in no way surprised but also not really interested as I have been perfectly happy with the Mavens and even opted to switch back to Codes on my trail bike for a more usable range of power for the application.
I took Dale's bike for a lap yesterday to try the Mavens. He bled and massaged them and was running 200F/180R rotors. For reference, I run TRP DHR Evos with 200mm rotors on my own bike which I find slightly underpowered although they make up for it with excellent modulation and a light lever feel.
My first thought riding the Mavens was that the power is insane. It felt like someone was throwing a stick in the spokes (not saying this is good or bad, just how it compares to my TRPs). My second thought was WHY IS THE LEVER SO STIFF. They felt the same if not worse than a Code RSC in that regard. That doesn't make them unrideable (I used Code RSCs for 3 seasons), but it's really disappointing that they didn't address the lever feel on this brand new product. It's like when they released the Code Stealth lever last season and only changed the hose routing angle. It was maddening to see them focus solely on an aesthetic change instead of making the brake perform better. Maybe the SRAM engineers prefers a stiffer lever feel or maybe it comes down to technical reasons. But when I see other brands producing brakes with a lighter lever feel, I wonder why doesn't/can't SRAM do the same?
On the actual topic of tech rumors and innovations, now that you and Dale are here it's a shame you can't tell us what he was riding
Thought you had to be banging the boss to get one of these.
Ed?
Not sure why you thought you needed to post that. This is tech rumors, I can't be the only one who doesn't care to talk about other peoples relationships. Back to rumors please?
I would put my money on this coming down to pad retract. The amount of push back they would get if it was next to impossible to get the rotors not to ping off the pads would be a lot more than a stiff lever feel. Throw in a cam with an aggressive motion ratio in the early stroke and it lets you get the pad retract in conjunction with a larger ratio of caliper piston area over master cylinder piston area at the expense of increased lever force early on in its range of motion. So I think it's one of those things where, assuming a particular lever throw, the options are pad retract, braking power, and initial lever force and you only get to pick two.
Ooh, can we start calling them Wall-Ebikes?
Can we get past the idea that everything has to be the same, but also different.
Look, if its not for you, its not for you, but could be for others.
I have XT's, Code RSC's, and have spent time on TRP DH EVO's.
I prefer the RSC's full stop (pun intended, but only after proof reading)
I do not want the light lever feel of TRP's or XT's. I find them vague, and prefer the required force to pull RSC's
Some people like different things, so lets stop lamenting that SRAM didnt make a brake for YOU, but instead applaud them for making something cool, Jesus wept
I don't understand how getting people into MTB is a problem?? Whilst there are some inherent negatives as you have suggested, the net result is more people in the sport = more money whether that be in the way of local funding for trails/maintenance by councils as they actually start to view it as a majority sport as opposed to a minority sport as it used to be. Membership fees for local clubs increase and local bike shops investing back into the community (pointless having a bike shop if there is no local community). This is 100% the result in my local town in NZ. Yes there are drastically more people on the trails these days but if you look at it as a positive and feed the froth people have for riding even if they are beginning instead of being a grinch and hating on anyone that rides a bike with a motor, life is that much brighter and the sport of mountain biking is all the better for it.
Everyone has a different motivation for riding. If yours is to work hard to get to the top to make your descent worthwhile, have at it. But don't tell me I'm wrong for wanting to get to the top quickly to enjoy my descent aswell, maybe do two and then get home to the family quicker than if I was on a regular bike. This is coming from someone who rides both disciplines and enjoys each.
Sorry to add to the derailment but irks me when people nitpick to fit their views that ebikes are the devil. "They’re frequently the ones littering or getting high and bombing trails armored to the gills, caring very little about their impact on their surroundings." The only issue there is littering. Who cares if they want to get high and armour themselves to the gills? How does that affect you?
Surrons are the real devil people!
Confirmed Rumor: All my friends who bought ebikes are fat now.
I've had the old Code RSC's and the new Stealth Code brakes, and Stealths are way stronger. Apparently the swinglink is different from what I was told. I have the Mavens as well but haven't tried them on a trail yet but any arm fatigue I get is on steep trails. People must have super weak arms if they get tired on flow trails. You'll get stronger arms if you youtubers pick up a shovel once in awhile as well. #nodigjustride
This is well written, well thought out, and I appreciate the sentiment.
I have friends that backcountry snowmobile, and those that back country ski (I dabble in both when given the opportunity) I remember quite distinctly when snowmobiles became wildly more capapble at accessing backcountry peaks only accessible by massive effort (skinning up) or massive money (heli drop) the advancements in track length, lug depth, and sheer reliable displacement made for a big change in that landscape. Several backcountry heli companies never recovered from that
aLtITuDe
(the above statements are pure speculation)
I guess they will announce to go back to coil options and keep the kashima line for weight obsessed rich people.
All other things being equal, Factory and Performance Elite forks weigh the same (have I missed a joke?)
My Trickstuff Dirretesimas have been amazing for the past two years. Easy to bleed and lever feel is sublime. Everyone complains about cost and wait time with these. But no one complains about the end result…
Still trying to get a good bleed on my Formula Cura 4’s and keep my Code RSC’s from fading on big bike park days.
BTW, love the content Dave, Nick and crew put out!
Interesting to hear your take on the RSC’s vs the Stealths, I thought they were supposed to be identical minus the cable angle. I’m assuming that that the setup was comparable in terms of bleed quality, rotor size/thickness, and pad compound. Not trying to say your experience is incorrect, just curious to hear if there’s really a physical difference. Would love to hear if anyone else has had a chance to test both models and had a similar experience.
For reference, I ride RSC’s w CC cams and haven’t had a chance to ride the new stealths.
I went from the Code RSCs to the Code Ultimate Stealth's and also noticed more power/lever feel, as did other coworkers who made the switch. I had Stealth Ultimate's on my enduro bike and dirt jumper (overkill, I know), and Silver Stealth's on my trail bike until I got the Maven Ultimate Expert Kit from work a couple of weeks back and tossed them on my enduro bike then moved the Ultimate's to my trail bike for aesthetic reasons and the carbon lever. Because my enduro bike frame is 200mm post mount natively, I went 200mm front and rear, which was what I was running with the Code Ultimate Stealth's.
I haven't had a chance to ride any actual trails with the Maven's yet so I don't have any feedback there, but I did ride around my neighborhood to get a quick feel for them; I immediately noticed how much more power there was and how much less effort it takes to get to it at the lever. What I didn't notice was any difference in lever action compared to my Stealth Ultimate's, it wasn't remotely hard to pull the lever to get to the power, nor did it feel any different to me than the Stealth Ultimate's that I just removed.
Initially I had an interesting time getting them set up with the extra steps and warped rotors out of the box, but after multiple bleeds and some time spent with a couple of rotor truing tools and a caliper straightening tool, I have them up and running. Really excited to eventually give them a try in the coming weeks to see how they feel on the trail. I'll report back if my fingies hurt after a day of riding.
Bike diapers are the worst thing to have happened to MTB
Best brakes in the world. I love my maxima and picolla HD. Yes they are expensive but it is worth it. And there is no wait time any more, you can just order them at german/european online shops
There are many worse things in MTB, as a for instance, cable tourism has entered the chat.
Air vs. Coil and I was just speculating that similar to the Formula lineup the coil will be a cheaper product because of the weight. So all Factory will still stand for lightweight, high performance air forks whilst Performance Elite will basically be a Marzocchi with the cartridge of the factory lines. It’s just a guess and would make sense to accommodate the want for coil these days without running your top shelf product by making it heavier than some DC forks out there.
I bought one 2 months ago and have ridden a decent amount more than usual. I'm up 10 Lbs since I got it...
Places you guys can go fight each other about e-bikes.
https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/The-Hub,2/Lets-be-honest-Ebike-related,11308
https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/hub/what-do-you-prioritize-e-bike?page=2
https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/The-Hub,2/Downsides-of-ebikes-and-what-should-the-industry-trail-organizations-do-about-it,11488#comment-263268
How good is life and mountain biking that people can complain publicly about manufactures covering their bikes so they can test in the wild. What a time to be alive.....
Username checks out
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I don't have an ebike, but if I were friends with a donutmeister I'd be fat(ter) regardless.