MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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1/16/2023 10:31am
Yesterday I saw a SRAM crank with a hole in it. Similar to those MUSA fancy pants cranks. Assume it belongs to the new AXS drivetrain...

Yesterday I saw a SRAM crank with a hole in it. Similar to those MUSA fancy pants cranks. Assume it belongs to the new AXS drivetrain, anyone know anything more?

Buttons wrote:
Yeah talked with a sram rep about them it’ll be the cheapest crank option for the new axs. I think they are going to be rs...

Yeah talked with a sram rep about them it’ll be the cheapest crank option for the new axs. I think they are going to be rs or something, sram is changing up they’re naming scheme for the new stuff. xx is top end and that’s about all I know.

Also all the new cranks are the quarq 8 bolt direct mount instead of the old 3bolt direct mount. 

Some good intel, I love this place.

This one definitely had XO etched onto the crank arm, it looked production quality. It also appeared to either be direct or 4 bolt and had a built in bashguard.

1
Buttons
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Provo, UT US
1/16/2023 10:45am
Yesterday I saw a SRAM crank with a hole in it. Similar to those MUSA fancy pants cranks. Assume it belongs to the new AXS drivetrain...

Yesterday I saw a SRAM crank with a hole in it. Similar to those MUSA fancy pants cranks. Assume it belongs to the new AXS drivetrain, anyone know anything more?

Buttons wrote:
Yeah talked with a sram rep about them it’ll be the cheapest crank option for the new axs. I think they are going to be rs...

Yeah talked with a sram rep about them it’ll be the cheapest crank option for the new axs. I think they are going to be rs or something, sram is changing up they’re naming scheme for the new stuff. xx is top end and that’s about all I know.

Also all the new cranks are the quarq 8 bolt direct mount instead of the old 3bolt direct mount. 

Some good intel, I love this place. This one definitely had XO etched onto the crank arm, it looked production quality. It also appeared to either...

Some good intel, I love this place.

This one definitely had XO etched onto the crank arm, it looked production quality. It also appeared to either be direct or 4 bolt and had a built in bashguard.

There is possibly a 4 bolt spider available but I have seen the cranks and the main interface at the spindle is the Same as the 8 bolt road.

I must have had it wrong on the names, oops. They look sick though!

1
Primoz
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1/16/2023 11:03am

*This topic is worthless without pics*

O1D4
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1/16/2023 11:39am
pinkrobe wrote:

That crank looks disturbingly like the Race Face LP crankset I bought in 1992...

Oh good I'm not the only one who saw those cranks from NSB and went... "I have seen these before" haha I gotta imagine the final...

Oh good I'm not the only one who saw those cranks from NSB and went... "I have seen these before" haha

I gotta imagine the final design will be a little sexier and we are just seeing a proof of concept so to speak.

 

Edthorne wrote:
I seem to recall seeing a bit of a tease about these maybe a year or so ago, so I actually wouldn't be surprised if the...

I seem to recall seeing a bit of a tease about these maybe a year or so ago, so I actually wouldn't be surprised if the cranks pictured are pretty close to a final design. It looks like Lewis Buchanan also has them on his Range right now actually. 

I was still in the development stage back in 1992, so I don't really have any opinion on the old RF cranks. Bearing that in mind, I kind of like the utilitarian raw alloy look on those cranks. 

Yoann and his 'Into the Gnar' team have had these on their bikes for a while now too.

1
Big Bird
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1/16/2023 12:38pm

Didn't NSB make the original ones for Race Face back in day? 

The ones that I broke four pairs of?

bizutch
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1/16/2023 1:47pm Edited Date/Time 1/16/2023 1:48pm

Didn't NSB make the original ones for Race Face back in day? 

Big Bird wrote:

The ones that I broke four pairs of?

Which ironically...isn't even that long ago.  

Now...snapping square taper RaceFace cranks and the BB spindle simultaneosly...that's doing something.
Or a set of 175mm FSA's drilled as 165's on a giant, brittle ISIS BB with bearings squirting out the sides.  You probably did get to torch that combo.

The big bragging right was to bent a high end set of XTR cranks on their original spline BB. Then you could say how expensive your mistake was.

Worst of all was being able to give a set of incredibly sexy rainbow anodized Kooka cranks a sideways glance from across the parking lot and watch them shatter in your mere presence.  

Man...we've got it so good tech wise these days.

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Big Bird
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1/16/2023 2:14pm
bizutch wrote:
Which ironically...isn't even that long ago.   Now...snapping square taper RaceFace cranks and the BB spindle simultaneosly...that's doing something. Or a set of 175mm FSA's drilled as...

Which ironically...isn't even that long ago.  

Now...snapping square taper RaceFace cranks and the BB spindle simultaneosly...that's doing something.
Or a set of 175mm FSA's drilled as 165's on a giant, brittle ISIS BB with bearings squirting out the sides.  You probably did get to torch that combo.

The big bragging right was to bent a high end set of XTR cranks on their original spline BB. Then you could say how expensive your mistake was.

Worst of all was being able to give a set of incredibly sexy rainbow anodized Kooka cranks a sideways glance from across the parking lot and watch them shatter in your mere presence.  

Man...we've got it so good tech wise these days.

How about a set of bent and cracked Profiles? The first time I rode the original Aptos jumps, no one told me you had to hit the second jump like a spine. "Flat" bottomed on the third lip. Welded them up and ran 'em for years after. You can't do that with "Forged." aluminum. Oh, and I'm still running my clunky XTR's on my Hunter.

1
Kango
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1/16/2023 4:45pm
Edthorne wrote:
NSB cranks     

NSB cranks Screenshot 20230114 142714 Instagram.jpg?VersionId=QGCPIB4.hx2Ss

 20230114 142845.jpg?VersionId=4BvbtrxEhV4

 

pinkrobe wrote:

That crank looks disturbingly like the Race Face LP crankset I bought in 1992...

Oh good I'm not the only one who saw those cranks from NSB and went... "I have seen these before" haha I gotta imagine the final...

Oh good I'm not the only one who saw those cranks from NSB and went... "I have seen these before" haha

I gotta imagine the final design will be a little sexier and we are just seeing a proof of concept so to speak.

 

Looks very similar to Canfield cranks.

stoic_machine
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1/17/2023 6:45am Edited Date/Time 1/17/2023 6:47am

Didn't NSB make the original ones for Race Face back in day? 

Big Bird wrote:

The ones that I broke four pairs of?

bizutch wrote:
Which ironically...isn't even that long ago.   Now...snapping square taper RaceFace cranks and the BB spindle simultaneosly...that's doing something. Or a set of 175mm FSA's drilled as...

Which ironically...isn't even that long ago.  

Now...snapping square taper RaceFace cranks and the BB spindle simultaneosly...that's doing something.
Or a set of 175mm FSA's drilled as 165's on a giant, brittle ISIS BB with bearings squirting out the sides.  You probably did get to torch that combo.

The big bragging right was to bent a high end set of XTR cranks on their original spline BB. Then you could say how expensive your mistake was.

Worst of all was being able to give a set of incredibly sexy rainbow anodized Kooka cranks a sideways glance from across the parking lot and watch them shatter in your mere presence.  

Man...we've got it so good tech wise these days.

I had two rare sets of Kooka cranks as a teen. I had the blue acid fade and the Camo cranks... Yes folks it doesn't need to be oil slick lol.

Later I found out the guy we purchased them from at a bike parts expo thing who said he was a sales rep for em actually was a part of theft ring of bike parts from delivery trucks.

Sold those cranks for some proper good money on eBay later in life.

 

29
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AT
1/17/2023 12:34pm

itt: old people being cranky about cranks

 

Commencal coming out with a gravel bike, frame probably alloy, taking bets if the fork is going to be carbon or not

 

 

 

2
Kango
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1/17/2023 5:19pm
29 wrote:
itt: old people being cranky about cranks   Commencal coming out with a gravel bike, frame probably alloy, taking bets if the fork is going to...

itt: old people being cranky about cranks

 

Commencal coming out with a gravel bike, frame probably alloy, taking bets if the fork is going to be carbon or not

 

 

 

Looks like she was dropped by Specialized from all that ambassador stuff. Good for her for finding a new sponsor.

2
1/18/2023 5:48am
29 wrote:
itt: old people being cranky about cranks   Commencal coming out with a gravel bike, frame probably alloy, taking bets if the fork is going to...

itt: old people being cranky about cranks

 

Commencal coming out with a gravel bike, frame probably alloy, taking bets if the fork is going to be carbon or not

 

 

 

Kango wrote:

Looks like she was dropped by Specialized from all that ambassador stuff. Good for her for finding a new sponsor.

isn't she also kilian brons gf? long time commencal athlete

Losifer
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Sandia Park, NM US
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1/18/2023 8:09am
Losifer wrote:
 

Trinity MTB has their derailleur in a box ready to test.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CniFM1yqqPW/?igshid=MWI4MTIyMDE=

Primoz wrote:

Really wondering what their wide range gearbox will look like. Supposedly something is in the works.

Yeah, really curious how they're going to pull that off.

Based on the clever way they're approaching this, I think this could be a major step forward in removing the drivetrain mass from the unsprung mass.

1
1/18/2023 8:15am
Losifer wrote:
Yeah, really curious how they're going to pull that off. Based on the clever way they're approaching this, I think this could be a major step...

Yeah, really curious how they're going to pull that off.

Based on the clever way they're approaching this, I think this could be a major step forward in removing the drivetrain mass from the unsprung mass.

I like what trinity is doing with the BB area mount that can work for normal/e-bike/gearbox etc.

seems like a design standardization here could make a lot of things compatible.

1
1/18/2023 8:41am
Losifer wrote:
 

Trinity MTB has their derailleur in a box ready to test.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CniFM1yqqPW/?igshid=MWI4MTIyMDE=

Primoz wrote:

Really wondering what their wide range gearbox will look like. Supposedly something is in the works.

Losifer wrote:
Yeah, really curious how they're going to pull that off. Based on the clever way they're approaching this, I think this could be a major step...

Yeah, really curious how they're going to pull that off.

Based on the clever way they're approaching this, I think this could be a major step forward in removing the drivetrain mass from the unsprung mass.

My guess would be basically the same current setup, but with two opposed-direction DH-sized cassettes; one on the crankshaft and one on the jack/output shaft and some kind of wizardry that moves them into the proper ratios.  At the extreme ends, two X01 DH cassettes would give 576% range... (24/10)/(10/24) = 5.76.

3
Losifer
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1/18/2023 8:52am
Primoz wrote:

Really wondering what their wide range gearbox will look like. Supposedly something is in the works.

Losifer wrote:
Yeah, really curious how they're going to pull that off. Based on the clever way they're approaching this, I think this could be a major step...

Yeah, really curious how they're going to pull that off.

Based on the clever way they're approaching this, I think this could be a major step forward in removing the drivetrain mass from the unsprung mass.

MTBrent wrote:
My guess would be basically the same current setup, but with two opposed-direction DH-sized cassettes; one on the crankshaft and one on the jack/output shaft and...

My guess would be basically the same current setup, but with two opposed-direction DH-sized cassettes; one on the crankshaft and one on the jack/output shaft and some kind of wizardry that moves them into the proper ratios.  At the extreme ends, two X01 DH cassettes would give 576% range... (24/10)/(10/24) = 5.76.

That's kinda what I've gathered from the interviews I've heard. Just super curious about that wizardry!

DubC
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CA US
1/18/2023 9:10am

Hopefully someone will come out with a functional gearbox that just bolts to the motor mounts on an ebike or something. I don't want one (very happy with function and reliability of modern drivetrains); it would just be nice if the "gearbox or die" people would crawl back in their caves for a while. 

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2
Primoz
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1/18/2023 9:12am

Two DH cassettes will have massive jumps between the gears for that range. At 500 % range and up, you need at least 12 gears to make it work. Yeah, there will always be some people that will say '9 is enough' (or 7 in this case), but in reality, jumps between gears above 20 % are not a fun thing to have.

To make a back to back cassette gearbox work, you need to have 1 teeth differences between sprockets on each cassette. 2 teeth of difference (for example 11-13-15 etc.) gives 516 % range but 25 to 30 % jumps between gears. With 1T jumps, you need 15 gear pairs to get over the 500 % range threshold (two 11-25 cassettes).

While this is still packageable inside the frame (Honda's practical cassette and derailleur in a box approach doesn't work for modern 12spd 10-50+ cassettes), I do not see how Trinity's approach of moving the cassettes, but not the chain, will work when you have cassettes that wide. You'd need a whole lot of space. That's why it's also VERY interesting to me that they move the wider component (cassette) side to side, not the narrow one (the single ring on the other side).

This is why I'm very interested in how they make it work Smile

3
1/18/2023 2:03pm
Primoz wrote:
Two DH cassettes will have massive jumps between the gears for that range. At 500 % range and up, you need at least 12 gears to...

Two DH cassettes will have massive jumps between the gears for that range. At 500 % range and up, you need at least 12 gears to make it work. Yeah, there will always be some people that will say '9 is enough' (or 7 in this case), but in reality, jumps between gears above 20 % are not a fun thing to have.

To make a back to back cassette gearbox work, you need to have 1 teeth differences between sprockets on each cassette. 2 teeth of difference (for example 11-13-15 etc.) gives 516 % range but 25 to 30 % jumps between gears. With 1T jumps, you need 15 gear pairs to get over the 500 % range threshold (two 11-25 cassettes).

While this is still packageable inside the frame (Honda's practical cassette and derailleur in a box approach doesn't work for modern 12spd 10-50+ cassettes), I do not see how Trinity's approach of moving the cassettes, but not the chain, will work when you have cassettes that wide. You'd need a whole lot of space. That's why it's also VERY interesting to me that they move the wider component (cassette) side to side, not the narrow one (the single ring on the other side).

This is why I'm very interested in how they make it work Smile

Agreed on the jumps being too high for the masses relative to current 12sp setups.

However, maybe it's the singlespeeder in me, but I love the idea of the huge range with big jumps and minimal number of gears.

2
1/19/2023 12:30pm
Primoz wrote:
Two DH cassettes will have massive jumps between the gears for that range. At 500 % range and up, you need at least 12 gears to...

Two DH cassettes will have massive jumps between the gears for that range. At 500 % range and up, you need at least 12 gears to make it work. Yeah, there will always be some people that will say '9 is enough' (or 7 in this case), but in reality, jumps between gears above 20 % are not a fun thing to have.

To make a back to back cassette gearbox work, you need to have 1 teeth differences between sprockets on each cassette. 2 teeth of difference (for example 11-13-15 etc.) gives 516 % range but 25 to 30 % jumps between gears. With 1T jumps, you need 15 gear pairs to get over the 500 % range threshold (two 11-25 cassettes).

While this is still packageable inside the frame (Honda's practical cassette and derailleur in a box approach doesn't work for modern 12spd 10-50+ cassettes), I do not see how Trinity's approach of moving the cassettes, but not the chain, will work when you have cassettes that wide. You'd need a whole lot of space. That's why it's also VERY interesting to me that they move the wider component (cassette) side to side, not the narrow one (the single ring on the other side).

This is why I'm very interested in how they make it work Smile

If you move the cassettes one at a time you would have 2x the number of speeds on each cassette. EG two 7 speed cassettes would work out to 14 speeds. 

2
Primoz
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1/19/2023 12:35pm

This would actually make it much closer to what Shimano patented. The patent covers moving the chain over the back-to-back cassettes with one of the cassettes moving left and right by one sprocket to increase the number of gears.

Good one!

sspomer
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1/19/2023 1:46pm Edited Date/Time 1/19/2023 1:51pm

santa cruz syndicate with new v10?

 

vid description says

"This is the eighth generation of V10, one of the most winningest downhill bikes of all time. What you see here is still very much in the prototype stages. This video series goes behind the scenes and shows the work that the team at Santa Cruz and the Syndicate put into this and other bikes. Episode one takes us back to just a few weeks after Greg Minnaar won the 2021 World Championship and went to work validating numerous test mules to decide the direction of the next bike. You might be surprised to hear that other suspension designs were tested before Greg settled on VPP™. The Syndicate will be racing this bike in 2023 and they will continue to develop it throughout the year. Future episodes will dive further into the process of making a world class downhill race bike. When will it go on sale? No time soon. This is development in plain site."

12
1/19/2023 1:47pm
sspomer wrote:
santa cruz syndicate with new v10?   vid description says "This is the eighth generation of V10, one of the most winningest downhill bikes of all...

santa cruz syndicate with new v10?

 

vid description says

"This is the eighth generation of V10, one of the most winningest downhill bikes of all time. What you see here is still very much in the prototype stages. This video series goes behind the scenes and shows the work that the team at Santa Cruz and the Syndicate put into this and other bikes. Episode one takes us back to just a few weeks after Greg Minnaar won the 2021 World Championship and went to work validating numerous test mules to decide the direction of the next bike. You might be surprised to hear that other suspension designs were tested before Greg settled on VPP™. The Syndicate will be racing this bike in 2023 and they will continue to develop it throughout the year. Future episodes will dive further into the process of making a world class downhill race bike. When will it go on sale? No time soon. This is development in plain site."

Mullet's for all except the largest one.

1
sspomer
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1/19/2023 2:00pm

v10 mule photo from video

Screen Shot 2023-01-19 at 2.59.27 PM.png?VersionId=eM3RzbE811qqVX7tx.2QAoY

 

2
sspomer
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1/19/2023 2:03pm

mid pivot v10 mule

Screen Shot 2023-01-19 at 3.03.24 PM

 

2
1/19/2023 2:05pm

Proto V10IMG 20230119 190447

 

7
1/19/2023 2:06pm

Screen capture from the video.

V10 23.jpg?VersionId=cu1Arq9oSsfdM7gBV9XHxPRS1SqvmKt

 

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