MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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29
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Location
AT
1/17/2023 12:34pm

itt: old people being cranky about cranks

 

Commencal coming out with a gravel bike, frame probably alloy, taking bets if the fork is going to be carbon or not

 

 

 

2
Kango
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Calgary, AB CA
1/17/2023 5:19pm
29 wrote:
itt: old people being cranky about cranks   Commencal coming out with a gravel bike, frame probably alloy, taking bets if the fork is going to...

itt: old people being cranky about cranks

 

Commencal coming out with a gravel bike, frame probably alloy, taking bets if the fork is going to be carbon or not

 

 

 

Looks like she was dropped by Specialized from all that ambassador stuff. Good for her for finding a new sponsor.

2
1/18/2023 5:48am
29 wrote:
itt: old people being cranky about cranks   Commencal coming out with a gravel bike, frame probably alloy, taking bets if the fork is going to...

itt: old people being cranky about cranks

 

Commencal coming out with a gravel bike, frame probably alloy, taking bets if the fork is going to be carbon or not

 

 

 

Kango wrote:

Looks like she was dropped by Specialized from all that ambassador stuff. Good for her for finding a new sponsor.

isn't she also kilian brons gf? long time commencal athlete

Losifer
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Sandia Park, NM US
1/18/2023 8:09am
Losifer wrote:
 

Trinity MTB has their derailleur in a box ready to test.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CniFM1yqqPW/?igshid=MWI4MTIyMDE=

Primoz wrote:

Really wondering what their wide range gearbox will look like. Supposedly something is in the works.

Yeah, really curious how they're going to pull that off.

Based on the clever way they're approaching this, I think this could be a major step forward in removing the drivetrain mass from the unsprung mass.

1
1/18/2023 8:15am
Losifer wrote:
Yeah, really curious how they're going to pull that off. Based on the clever way they're approaching this, I think this could be a major step...

Yeah, really curious how they're going to pull that off.

Based on the clever way they're approaching this, I think this could be a major step forward in removing the drivetrain mass from the unsprung mass.

I like what trinity is doing with the BB area mount that can work for normal/e-bike/gearbox etc.

seems like a design standardization here could make a lot of things compatible.

1
MTBrent
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Concord, NH US
1/18/2023 8:41am
Losifer wrote:
 

Trinity MTB has their derailleur in a box ready to test.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CniFM1yqqPW/?igshid=MWI4MTIyMDE=

Primoz wrote:

Really wondering what their wide range gearbox will look like. Supposedly something is in the works.

Losifer wrote:
Yeah, really curious how they're going to pull that off. Based on the clever way they're approaching this, I think this could be a major step...

Yeah, really curious how they're going to pull that off.

Based on the clever way they're approaching this, I think this could be a major step forward in removing the drivetrain mass from the unsprung mass.

My guess would be basically the same current setup, but with two opposed-direction DH-sized cassettes; one on the crankshaft and one on the jack/output shaft and some kind of wizardry that moves them into the proper ratios.  At the extreme ends, two X01 DH cassettes would give 576% range... (24/10)/(10/24) = 5.76.

3
Losifer
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Location
Sandia Park, NM US
1/18/2023 8:52am
Primoz wrote:

Really wondering what their wide range gearbox will look like. Supposedly something is in the works.

Losifer wrote:
Yeah, really curious how they're going to pull that off. Based on the clever way they're approaching this, I think this could be a major step...

Yeah, really curious how they're going to pull that off.

Based on the clever way they're approaching this, I think this could be a major step forward in removing the drivetrain mass from the unsprung mass.

MTBrent wrote:
My guess would be basically the same current setup, but with two opposed-direction DH-sized cassettes; one on the crankshaft and one on the jack/output shaft and...

My guess would be basically the same current setup, but with two opposed-direction DH-sized cassettes; one on the crankshaft and one on the jack/output shaft and some kind of wizardry that moves them into the proper ratios.  At the extreme ends, two X01 DH cassettes would give 576% range... (24/10)/(10/24) = 5.76.

That's kinda what I've gathered from the interviews I've heard. Just super curious about that wizardry!

DubC
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95
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10/26/2011
Location
CA US
1/18/2023 9:10am

Hopefully someone will come out with a functional gearbox that just bolts to the motor mounts on an ebike or something. I don't want one (very happy with function and reliability of modern drivetrains); it would just be nice if the "gearbox or die" people would crawl back in their caves for a while. 

1
2
Primoz
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1/18/2023 9:12am

Two DH cassettes will have massive jumps between the gears for that range. At 500 % range and up, you need at least 12 gears to make it work. Yeah, there will always be some people that will say '9 is enough' (or 7 in this case), but in reality, jumps between gears above 20 % are not a fun thing to have.

To make a back to back cassette gearbox work, you need to have 1 teeth differences between sprockets on each cassette. 2 teeth of difference (for example 11-13-15 etc.) gives 516 % range but 25 to 30 % jumps between gears. With 1T jumps, you need 15 gear pairs to get over the 500 % range threshold (two 11-25 cassettes).

While this is still packageable inside the frame (Honda's practical cassette and derailleur in a box approach doesn't work for modern 12spd 10-50+ cassettes), I do not see how Trinity's approach of moving the cassettes, but not the chain, will work when you have cassettes that wide. You'd need a whole lot of space. That's why it's also VERY interesting to me that they move the wider component (cassette) side to side, not the narrow one (the single ring on the other side).

This is why I'm very interested in how they make it work Smile

3
MTBrent
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Location
Concord, NH US
1/18/2023 2:03pm
Primoz wrote:
Two DH cassettes will have massive jumps between the gears for that range. At 500 % range and up, you need at least 12 gears to...

Two DH cassettes will have massive jumps between the gears for that range. At 500 % range and up, you need at least 12 gears to make it work. Yeah, there will always be some people that will say '9 is enough' (or 7 in this case), but in reality, jumps between gears above 20 % are not a fun thing to have.

To make a back to back cassette gearbox work, you need to have 1 teeth differences between sprockets on each cassette. 2 teeth of difference (for example 11-13-15 etc.) gives 516 % range but 25 to 30 % jumps between gears. With 1T jumps, you need 15 gear pairs to get over the 500 % range threshold (two 11-25 cassettes).

While this is still packageable inside the frame (Honda's practical cassette and derailleur in a box approach doesn't work for modern 12spd 10-50+ cassettes), I do not see how Trinity's approach of moving the cassettes, but not the chain, will work when you have cassettes that wide. You'd need a whole lot of space. That's why it's also VERY interesting to me that they move the wider component (cassette) side to side, not the narrow one (the single ring on the other side).

This is why I'm very interested in how they make it work Smile

Agreed on the jumps being too high for the masses relative to current 12sp setups.

However, maybe it's the singlespeeder in me, but I love the idea of the huge range with big jumps and minimal number of gears.

2
1/19/2023 12:30pm
Primoz wrote:
Two DH cassettes will have massive jumps between the gears for that range. At 500 % range and up, you need at least 12 gears to...

Two DH cassettes will have massive jumps between the gears for that range. At 500 % range and up, you need at least 12 gears to make it work. Yeah, there will always be some people that will say '9 is enough' (or 7 in this case), but in reality, jumps between gears above 20 % are not a fun thing to have.

To make a back to back cassette gearbox work, you need to have 1 teeth differences between sprockets on each cassette. 2 teeth of difference (for example 11-13-15 etc.) gives 516 % range but 25 to 30 % jumps between gears. With 1T jumps, you need 15 gear pairs to get over the 500 % range threshold (two 11-25 cassettes).

While this is still packageable inside the frame (Honda's practical cassette and derailleur in a box approach doesn't work for modern 12spd 10-50+ cassettes), I do not see how Trinity's approach of moving the cassettes, but not the chain, will work when you have cassettes that wide. You'd need a whole lot of space. That's why it's also VERY interesting to me that they move the wider component (cassette) side to side, not the narrow one (the single ring on the other side).

This is why I'm very interested in how they make it work Smile

If you move the cassettes one at a time you would have 2x the number of speeds on each cassette. EG two 7 speed cassettes would work out to 14 speeds. 

2
Primoz
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1/19/2023 12:35pm

This would actually make it much closer to what Shimano patented. The patent covers moving the chain over the back-to-back cassettes with one of the cassettes moving left and right by one sprocket to increase the number of gears.

Good one!

sspomer
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Boise, ID US
1/19/2023 1:46pm Edited Date/Time 1/19/2023 1:51pm

santa cruz syndicate with new v10?

 

vid description says

"This is the eighth generation of V10, one of the most winningest downhill bikes of all time. What you see here is still very much in the prototype stages. This video series goes behind the scenes and shows the work that the team at Santa Cruz and the Syndicate put into this and other bikes. Episode one takes us back to just a few weeks after Greg Minnaar won the 2021 World Championship and went to work validating numerous test mules to decide the direction of the next bike. You might be surprised to hear that other suspension designs were tested before Greg settled on VPP™. The Syndicate will be racing this bike in 2023 and they will continue to develop it throughout the year. Future episodes will dive further into the process of making a world class downhill race bike. When will it go on sale? No time soon. This is development in plain site."

1/19/2023 1:47pm
sspomer wrote:
santa cruz syndicate with new v10?   vid description says "This is the eighth generation of V10, one of the most winningest downhill bikes of all...

santa cruz syndicate with new v10?

 

vid description says

"This is the eighth generation of V10, one of the most winningest downhill bikes of all time. What you see here is still very much in the prototype stages. This video series goes behind the scenes and shows the work that the team at Santa Cruz and the Syndicate put into this and other bikes. Episode one takes us back to just a few weeks after Greg Minnaar won the 2021 World Championship and went to work validating numerous test mules to decide the direction of the next bike. You might be surprised to hear that other suspension designs were tested before Greg settled on VPP™. The Syndicate will be racing this bike in 2023 and they will continue to develop it throughout the year. Future episodes will dive further into the process of making a world class downhill race bike. When will it go on sale? No time soon. This is development in plain site."

Mullet's for all except the largest one.

1
sspomer
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Boise, ID US
1/19/2023 2:00pm

v10 mule photo from video

Screen Shot 2023-01-19 at 2.59.27 PM.png?VersionId=eM3RzbE811qqVX7tx.2QAoY

 

2
sspomer
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1/19/2023 2:03pm

mid pivot v10 mule

Screen Shot 2023-01-19 at 3.03.24 PM

 

2
nskerb
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Location
Kelso, WA US
1/19/2023 2:49pm

That last sentence of it still being in development, definitely looks production ready. Unless SC likes to just sink money into frame molds and rework them, which sounds like a horrible use of cash. 

 

I think showing the development side of stuff and not keeping it under wraps is the coolest thing a frame manufacturer can do. So this is objectively a good thing, but it is definitely not getting tweaked past adjustments in linkage. 

7
1/19/2023 3:18pm

 
 


Seems like a good time to bring these back up! Kudos to Santa Cruz for their transparency and feeding the tech rumors since 2008

7
lickmycrinkle
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Location
Beverly Hills, CA US
1/19/2023 4:58pm
nskerb wrote:
That last sentence of it still being in development, definitely looks production ready. Unless SC likes to just sink money into frame molds and rework them...

That last sentence of it still being in development, definitely looks production ready. Unless SC likes to just sink money into frame molds and rework them, which sounds like a horrible use of cash. 

 

I think showing the development side of stuff and not keeping it under wraps is the coolest thing a frame manufacturer can do. So this is objectively a good thing, but it is definitely not getting tweaked past adjustments in linkage. 

Well when you're selling bikes for €5600 with NX and Select level components (and you've got chads and dads left and right lapping them up), you've basically got money to burn.

8
metadave
Posts
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Location
CA
1/19/2023 9:07pm
Screen capture from the video.    

Screen capture from the video.

V10 23.jpg?VersionId=cu1Arq9oSsfdM7gBV9XHxPRS1SqvmKt

 

Almost has og Rocky RMX vibes

 

 713d2b45-7f15-4537-b848-31df4d2418ec

 

7
Primoz
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SI
1/19/2023 10:32pm

Funny to see they put into the video that Mule A version1 was running Sram drivetrain under Greg...

fartsack
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Location
CH
1/20/2023 12:45am

Rewatching thos 2009 videos after 14 years really brings back memories!! Back then watching the video made me drooling over the new steed. All i can think now is "gosh, those bikes look ridiculous!"

this was the last 26" dh bike that won a worldcup wasn't it?

1
1/20/2023 1:15am
fartsack wrote:
Rewatching thos 2009 videos after 14 years really brings back memories!! Back then watching the video made me drooling over the new steed. All i can...

Rewatching thos 2009 videos after 14 years really brings back memories!! Back then watching the video made me drooling over the new steed. All i can think now is "gosh, those bikes look ridiculous!"

this was the last 26" dh bike that won a worldcup wasn't it?

No, it was Ratboy on the 2014 bike. 

1
FullSend
Posts
101
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7/14/2021
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DE
1/20/2023 2:36am
  excentric headset cups on the new V10?

CC8C4EE5-67E2-48F9-B1B9-9EFE2876545B.png?VersionId=fMf0UB9jCbOflMVrjlrSyMpB a6cnw

 
excentric headset cups on the new V10?

They better be. Should be standard on literally every single bike in existence. So far only Canyon managed to get it right.

9

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