Oil is not oil, and DOT is not DOT. Bionol vegetable oil has a higher boiling temperature and lower viscosity than most DOT 5.1. I use...
Oil is not oil, and DOT is not DOT. Bionol vegetable oil has a higher boiling temperature and lower viscosity than most DOT 5.1. I use it for all of my brakes.
And: has any one of you actually boiled your brake fluid?
DOT X is DOT X though. Mineral oil fro. The manufacturer X is not the same as from manufacturer Y. That's my issue.
If the mineral oil brake guys agreed on a standard and all ran the same off the shelf fluid available in every town, I don't have an issue.
DOT X is DOT X though. Mineral oil fro. The manufacturer X is not the same as from manufacturer Y. That's my issue.
If the mineral...
DOT X is DOT X though. Mineral oil fro. The manufacturer X is not the same as from manufacturer Y. That's my issue.
If the mineral oil brake guys agreed on a standard and all ran the same off the shelf fluid available in every town, I don't have an issue.
DOT X is not DOT X, though. They only need to be according to a standard regarding base of the fluid and boiling point etc, but there are many different fluids with different properties around. For oil, just run Bionol, which has low viscosity, high boiling point and is much better for the environment. And you can almost drink it, so nothing bad for your health either. The HSE guys will be cheerinh
Who actually governs and inspects the quality of DOT though?
Shimano mineral oil will always be Shimano mineral oil, just like Maguara’s Royal Blood will always be Royal Blood. Because they’re the only ones that produce it.
You can buy cheaper versions but whats the point when you only save a few pennies?
Meanwhile, DOT is made by every bugger and there’s no way the plant in China (or wherever) will have the same qc as one in the US. We only use Motul branded DOT 5.1 at work because at least theres a consistency with 1 manufacturer.
What are the chances that sram switches all brakes to mineral oil but makes sure to use a mineral oil that’s incompatible with shimano’s mineral oil. That’d be just like the bike industry!
I’ve been working thru the same bottle of shimano mineral oil for sometime now. Even have used it to sharpen a knife when the honing oil i use was backordered.
not remotely expensive. Put in smaller bottles for travel. Infinitely more convenient than dot in practice.
That would be a sad day when 20mm completely goes away....
Dunno, am no engineer but the move to 38mm stanchions and different lower casting could maybe help with the stiffness/compliance and negate the need of such a beefy axle? I've been riding a Zeb in some pretty rough stuff and never wanted a stiffer feeling fork. I remember the older fox 40's being way too stiff
Depends on what stiffnes you’re talking about. I’ve gone from a 40 to the Dorado and the fore-aft stiffnes is massively different (in a very good way) which you immediately notice on the trail.
I don’t think these 38mm chassis really help you because it is more or less neglectable because the crown/steerer interface is what’s making the biggest difference. You could have the biggest stanchions in the world but if they’re only so „weakly“ attached to the crowns/steerer interface thats quite pointless.
Interesting about the new boxxer post above. Just saw something else from canyon and mille on the current normal boxxer Ultimate
Interesting about the new boxxer post above. Just saw something else from canyon and mille on the current normal boxxer Ultimate
Its pretty common for early press photos to be on whatever bike they could get to them immediately, so its often the previous years stock-standard bike thats a size too small with a few minor parts that aren't sponsor-accurate. Then you'll slowly start seeing new content with the proper spec for the new year. It always seems to be way more manic to get riders their proper kit in time for the race season than it would appear from the outside.
There was talk of RS wanting to ditch the 20mm axle though. Would probably allow them to use the same lower chassis for the ZEB and the Boxxer. They already use the same stanchions. That is also in line with that leaked SRAM pdf that mentioned a 200mm air shaft kit for the ZEB which someone posted in the PB forums some time ago.
Depends on what stiffnes you’re talking about. I’ve gone from a 40 to the Dorado and the fore-aft stiffnes is massively different (in a very good...
Depends on what stiffnes you’re talking about. I’ve gone from a 40 to the Dorado and the fore-aft stiffnes is massively different (in a very good way) which you immediately notice on the trail.
I don’t think these 38mm chassis really help you because it is more or less neglectable because the crown/steerer interface is what’s making the biggest difference. You could have the biggest stanchions in the world but if they’re only so „weakly“ attached to the crowns/steerer interface thats quite pointless.
Anyway that’s just my opinion
There's a certain topic on this forum covering this.
The new Boxxer being 38 mm and 15x110 would make some sense as it would mean reusing ZEB lowers as they come with no modifications.
EDIT: of course I did not read through to the next page where exactly this comment is already covered... Right above mine of course.
There was talk of RS wanting to ditch the 20mm axle though. Would probably allow them to use the same lower chassis for the ZEB and...
There was talk of RS wanting to ditch the 20mm axle though. Would probably allow them to use the same lower chassis for the ZEB and the Boxxer. They already use the same stanchions. That is also in line with that leaked SRAM pdf that mentioned a 200mm air shaft kit for the ZEB which someone posted in the PB forums some time ago.
My guess is if it isn't coming, it was definitely planned (outside of your mentioned leak). When fully extended a Charger 2.1 shaft hangs down at least 20mm longer than a 190mm air spring.
If it was shelved, it's probably because even 190mm Zebs already eat their stanchions due to too much leverage, not enough bushing.
Remains to be seen for the new ones though. I cooked an original set of stanchions in a season at 190. I'll see this summer if it happens to my new Ultimates with their longer bushings.
There was talk of RS wanting to ditch the 20mm axle though. Would probably allow them to use the same lower chassis for the ZEB and...
There was talk of RS wanting to ditch the 20mm axle though. Would probably allow them to use the same lower chassis for the ZEB and the Boxxer. They already use the same stanchions. That is also in line with that leaked SRAM pdf that mentioned a 200mm air shaft kit for the ZEB which someone posted in the PB forums some time ago.
Cant be the same stanchions from the Zeb to the Boxxxer, as one is a dual crown and one is a single crown, same diameter is prolly likely.
There was talk of RS wanting to ditch the 20mm axle though. Would probably allow them to use the same lower chassis for the ZEB and...
There was talk of RS wanting to ditch the 20mm axle though. Would probably allow them to use the same lower chassis for the ZEB and the Boxxer. They already use the same stanchions. That is also in line with that leaked SRAM pdf that mentioned a 200mm air shaft kit for the ZEB which someone posted in the PB forums some time ago.
Cant be the same stanchions from the Zeb to the Boxxxer, as one is a dual crown and one is a single crown, same diameter is...
Cant be the same stanchions from the Zeb to the Boxxxer, as one is a dual crown and one is a single crown, same diameter is prolly likely.
No, they are the same. The fact that they are pressed into a crown on one fork and clamped in the crown on the other fork doesn't make a difference. 99,9% sure that the new Boxxer will even feature exactly the same airspring design as the Debonair+ from the new ZEB.
What do you think why the old Boxxer had 35mm stanchions for ages? Because that way SRAM could use a lot of the same parts on the Boxxer, Lyrik, Pike, Yari and Revelation. It's all modular.
There was talk of RS wanting to ditch the 20mm axle though. Would probably allow them to use the same lower chassis for the ZEB and...
There was talk of RS wanting to ditch the 20mm axle though. Would probably allow them to use the same lower chassis for the ZEB and the Boxxer. They already use the same stanchions. That is also in line with that leaked SRAM pdf that mentioned a 200mm air shaft kit for the ZEB which someone posted in the PB forums some time ago.
No, they are the same. The fact that they are pressed into a crown on one fork and clamped in the crown on the other fork...
No, they are the same. The fact that they are pressed into a crown on one fork and clamped in the crown on the other fork doesn't make a difference. 99,9% sure that the new Boxxer will even feature exactly the same airspring design as the Debonair+ from the new ZEB.
What do you think why the old Boxxer had 35mm stanchions for ages? Because that way SRAM could use a lot of the same parts on the Boxxer, Lyrik, Pike, Yari and Revelation. It's all modular.
The length matters, the stanchions on the Zeb are shorter than the Boxxxer.
Again, same dia, which is all but confirmed, but not the same length….
No way the seat tube is going to survive the torsional load transmitted by those huge upper rocker link levers over a season of hard racing. There's just honestly no way the seat tube is not going to snap.
Maybe they don't even expect the frame to last an entire season because they'll have the next prototypes ready by the time these break apart.
No way the seat tube is going to survive the torsional load transmitted by those huge upper rocker link levers over a season of hard racing...
No way the seat tube is going to survive the torsional load transmitted by those huge upper rocker link levers over a season of hard racing. There's just honestly no way the seat tube is not going to snap.
Maybe they don't even expect the frame to last an entire season because they'll have the next prototypes ready by the time these break apart.
It's an Intense alu frame, they're used to their frames lasting two weeks or less
DOT X is DOT X though. Mineral oil fro. The manufacturer X is not the same as from manufacturer Y. That's my issue.
If the mineral oil brake guys agreed on a standard and all ran the same off the shelf fluid available in every town, I don't have an issue.
DOT X is not DOT X, though. They only need to be according to a standard regarding base of the fluid and boiling point etc, but there are many different fluids with different properties around. For oil, just run Bionol, which has low viscosity, high boiling point and is much better for the environment. And you can almost drink it, so nothing bad for your health either. The HSE guys will be cheerinh
Who actually governs and inspects the quality of DOT though?
Shimano mineral oil will always be Shimano mineral oil, just like Maguara’s Royal Blood will always be Royal Blood. Because they’re the only ones that produce it.
You can buy cheaper versions but whats the point when you only save a few pennies?
Meanwhile, DOT is made by every bugger and there’s no way the plant in China (or wherever) will have the same qc as one in the US. We only use Motul branded DOT 5.1 at work because at least theres a consistency with 1 manufacturer.
DOT = Department of Transportation (in the US anyways), right? Brake failure on cars/semi is a big fucking deal, hence regulated by the DOT.
What are the chances that sram switches all brakes to mineral oil but makes sure to use a mineral oil that’s incompatible with shimano’s mineral oil. That’d be just like the bike industry!
Pretty big assumption saying that either Shimano or Mangura produce their own mineral oil lol.
In the same way that all DOT 5.1 is the same right, lol.
I’ve been working thru the same bottle of shimano mineral oil for sometime now. Even have used it to sharpen a knife when the honing oil i use was backordered.
not remotely expensive. Put in smaller bottles for travel. Infinitely more convenient than dot in practice.
Can we table the "pick a brake fluid and be a dick about it" discussion and get back to tech rumors please?
Bike nerds will fight about anything.
Has anyone heard something new about the supposed highish-pivot Trek Slash?
New BoXXer not Blackbox anymore…
Def looks like 38mm. Bring on March23
15x110 axle too?
That would be a sad day when 20mm completely goes away....
Looks like 20mm x 110mm Boost to me
Dunno, am no engineer but the move to 38mm stanchions and different lower casting could maybe help with the stiffness/compliance and negate the need of such a beefy axle? I've been riding a Zeb in some pretty rough stuff and never wanted a stiffer feeling fork. I remember the older fox 40's being way too stiff
Depends on what stiffnes you’re talking about. I’ve gone from a 40 to the Dorado and the fore-aft stiffnes is massively different (in a very good way) which you immediately notice on the trail.
I don’t think these 38mm chassis really help you because it is more or less neglectable because the crown/steerer interface is what’s making the biggest difference. You could have the biggest stanchions in the world but if they’re only so „weakly“ attached to the crowns/steerer interface thats quite pointless.
Anyway that’s just my opinion
Interesting about the new boxxer post above. Just saw something else from canyon and mille on the current normal boxxer Ultimate
Its pretty common for early press photos to be on whatever bike they could get to them immediately, so its often the previous years stock-standard bike thats a size too small with a few minor parts that aren't sponsor-accurate. Then you'll slowly start seeing new content with the proper spec for the new year. It always seems to be way more manic to get riders their proper kit in time for the race season than it would appear from the outside.
The video for the Forbidden dh-pro to build stated the fork had a 15x110 axle. And the fork was a Boxer prototype…
5:25… I would say this is a 20mm axle and just a typo in the spec sheet.
https://youtu.be/j2bAF4KXMi8
There was talk of RS wanting to ditch the 20mm axle though. Would probably allow them to use the same lower chassis for the ZEB and the Boxxer. They already use the same stanchions. That is also in line with that leaked SRAM pdf that mentioned a 200mm air shaft kit for the ZEB which someone posted in the PB forums some time ago.
There's a certain topic on this forum covering this.
The new Boxxer being 38 mm and 15x110 would make some sense as it would mean reusing ZEB lowers as they come with no modifications.
EDIT: of course I did not read through to the next page where exactly this comment is already covered... Right above mine of course.
My guess is if it isn't coming, it was definitely planned (outside of your mentioned leak). When fully extended a Charger 2.1 shaft hangs down at least 20mm longer than a 190mm air spring.
If it was shelved, it's probably because even 190mm Zebs already eat their stanchions due to too much leverage, not enough bushing.
Remains to be seen for the new ones though. I cooked an original set of stanchions in a season at 190. I'll see this summer if it happens to my new Ultimates with their longer bushings.
Cant be the same stanchions from the Zeb to the Boxxxer, as one is a dual crown and one is a single crown, same diameter is prolly likely.
No, they are the same. The fact that they are pressed into a crown on one fork and clamped in the crown on the other fork doesn't make a difference. 99,9% sure that the new Boxxer will even feature exactly the same airspring design as the Debonair+ from the new ZEB.
What do you think why the old Boxxer had 35mm stanchions for ages? Because that way SRAM could use a lot of the same parts on the Boxxer, Lyrik, Pike, Yari and Revelation. It's all modular.
The length matters, the stanchions on the Zeb are shorter than the Boxxxer.
Again, same dia, which is all but confirmed, but not the same length….
No way the seat tube is going to survive the torsional load transmitted by those huge upper rocker link levers over a season of hard racing. There's just honestly no way the seat tube is not going to snap.
Maybe they don't even expect the frame to last an entire season because they'll have the next prototypes ready by the time these break apart.
It's an Intense alu frame, they're used to their frames lasting two weeks or less
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