1. Lab tests ≠ absolute truth. Not all tests are created equal. People in these forums have repeatedly made the claim that radial tires roll slower than bias ply tires, but the tests they've shared to back up these claims (example from Schwalbe's lab here) were performed on steel drums in a laboratory. Steel drums have been resoundingly proven to not be a reliable proxy for even smooth asphalt, let alone rough asphalt, gravel, or real world trail conditions.
If you have a link for rolling resistance tests that show radials demonstrating a higher rolling resistance than an equivalent bias ply tire, and these tests were not done on a smooth metal drum in a laboratory, I'm all ears. And please share them here so we can all see.
The Specialized video that @Bananamoon linked is exciting because Specialized tested radials and equivalent bias ply tires on non-smooth surfaces, and (according to the guy from Specialized in the video) their test results showed that bias ply tires were faster than radials on smooth steel drums, but radials were faster than equivalent bias ply tires on every other surface.
2. Bigger contact patch ≠ slower. The Specialized tests are just one data point, and they're coming from a manufacturer with an incentive to convince us customers that their cool new product is better and faster than their boring old product. More testing is still needed. But, if true, their results wouldn't be surprising to me, because Jan Heine from Bicycle Quarterly demonstrated a long time ago (the article quoted below is from 2015) that supple tire casings are faster rolling than stiffer tire casings, despite putting more rubber on the road, because tire friction on the ground isn't the main cause of rolling resistance in the real world: hysteretic losses and suspension losses are.
"To make a tire fast, you need to reduce both types of losses: the hysteretic losses from the deflection of the tire and the suspension losses from the vibrations of rider and bike. The key to this is a supple casing. The supple casing flexes more easily, which reduces the energy it absorbs as the tire rotates (hysteretic losses). By flexing easily, the tire also transmits fewer vibrations, which reduces the suspension losses. Thus, a supple tire reduces both types of losses, making this adjustment an extremely effective way to improve your bike’s performance and comfort at the same time."
3. Feels slower ≠ slower: Big, low pressure, supple tires on road and gravel bikes feel slower, even though they are demonstrably faster, which is part of the reason they were resisted for so long. Grand Tour bikes have seen their tires getting incrementally bigger year after year for the last 15 years, from 23mm up to 35mm in certain cases. Ditto for gravel racing, where the standard issue tire has crept up from a 35mm a decade ago all the way up to a 2.2" MTB tire now. Yes, big, low pressure, supple road and gravel tires put more rubber in contact with the road than a thinner, stiffer, or higher pressure tire, and yes you can hear the rubber on the road more, but that dimension of tire feel is not the largest contributor to rolling resistance. In fact, or highly dubious evolved monkey brains will often tell us that slower tires are in fact faster, because the higher frequency vibrations of a rougher tire on the road, gravel, or trail are associated in our monkey brains with speed. Pair that with the fact that a smoother bike will allow our senses to pick up on more stimuli, like the sound of our tires on the road, gravel, or trail, and the confirmation bias is complete. More vibration and less noise means I must be going faster! Now where else have I heard this argument before?
I'm not saying that radials have higher or lower rolling resistance than equivalent bias ply tires. I don't have a clue which one it is. I'm saying that we don't have access to convincing data at this time, and I'm not convinced by the arguments I've heard in favor of radial = higher rolling resistance.
It's interesting, I don't find the rolling resistance to be wildly different for trail riding. While standard casing tires feel more snappy, I would posit that...
It's interesting, I don't find the rolling resistance to be wildly different for trail riding. While standard casing tires feel more snappy, I would posit that it's really just a "feeling" because my times are similar given similar compounds, tread patterns, etc. Where I really notice it is on jump lines - I have to work quite a bit more to clear things with the radials vs standard casings. Could be a skill issue. 😄
My educated guess is any increased rolling resistance is partially offset by the ability of the tire to not be knocked off line. It's also helpful that you can run a firmer/faster compound and still get good compliance/damping. I think Schwalbe's marketing of the radials for more "natural" trails and the diagonal casing for everything else tracks.
That's interesting and makes perfect sense to me. When I ride machine built jump trails, I typically want to air up from my tire pressure for natural trails, otherwise I roll tires on berms and especially on hips where I'm turning off a lip. This effect is both slow and feels sketchy as hell, and when I pump up my tires I feel like I can pump more efficiently and put weight into the bike in more places.
Radials have less casing stability, which is their selling point but also their weakness, so I can imagine them being less stable on machine built jump trails (or any high G-force jump), worse for pumping, and potentially shedding speed.
Has anyone else found the Highroller III to be absolutely terrifying on off camber dusty rocks?
I was really liking how this tire was handling blown out and dusty conditions until I took it down some steep and rocky Colorado tech where you have to place the tires on the rocks instead of between them.
I think Im going to switch back to and Assegai after that lol
Has anyone else found the Highroller III to be absolutely terrifying on off camber dusty rocks?I was really liking how this tire was handling blown out...
Has anyone else found the Highroller III to be absolutely terrifying on off camber dusty rocks?
I was really liking how this tire was handling blown out and dusty conditions until I took it down some steep and rocky Colorado tech where you have to place the tires on the rocks instead of between them.
I think Im going to switch back to and Assegai after that lol
Ridden a lot of rocks around SW CO and all over BC. Been awesome for me so far!
Has anyone else found the Highroller III to be absolutely terrifying on off camber dusty rocks?I was really liking how this tire was handling blown out...
Has anyone else found the Highroller III to be absolutely terrifying on off camber dusty rocks?
I was really liking how this tire was handling blown out and dusty conditions until I took it down some steep and rocky Colorado tech where you have to place the tires on the rocks instead of between them.
I think Im going to switch back to and Assegai after that lol
Has not been a big problem for me as a front tire on the off-camber dusty rocks at Snow Summit in Big Bear, but I'm not saying it isn't a problem elsewhere. And Snow Summit isn't especially steep, so that might be the difference.
1. Lab tests ≠ absolute truth. Not all tests are created equal. People in these forums have repeatedly made the claim that radial tires roll slower than bias ply tires, but the tests they've shared to back up these claims (example from Schwalbe's lab here) were performed on steel drums in a laboratory. Steel drums have been resoundingly proven to not be a reliable proxy for even smooth asphalt, let alone rough asphalt, gravel, or real world trail conditions.
If you have a link for rolling resistance tests that show radials demonstrating a higher rolling resistance than an equivalent bias ply tire, and these tests were not done on a smooth metal drum in a laboratory, I'm all ears. And please share them here so we can all see.
The Specialized video that @Bananamoon linked is exciting because Specialized tested radials and equivalent bias ply tires on non-smooth surfaces, and (according to the guy from Specialized in the video) their test results showed that bias ply tires were faster than radials on smooth steel drums, but radials were faster than equivalent bias ply tires on every other surface.
2. Bigger contact patch ≠ slower. The Specialized tests are just one data point, and they're coming from a manufacturer with an incentive to convince us customers that their cool new product is better and faster than their boring old product. More testing is still needed. But, if true, their results wouldn't be surprising to me, because Jan Heine from Bicycle Quarterly demonstrated a long time ago (the article quoted below is from 2015) that supple tire casings are faster rolling than stiffer tire casings, despite putting more rubber on the road, because tire friction on the ground isn't the main cause of rolling resistance in the real world: hysteretic losses and suspension losses are.
"To make a tire fast, you need to reduce both types of losses: the hysteretic losses from the deflection of the tire and the suspension losses from the vibrations of rider and bike. The key to this is a supple casing. The supple casing flexes more easily, which reduces the energy it absorbs as the tire rotates (hysteretic losses). By flexing easily, the tire also transmits fewer vibrations, which reduces the suspension losses. Thus, a supple tire reduces both types of losses, making this adjustment an extremely effective way to improve your bike’s performance and comfort at the same time."
3. Feels slower ≠ slower: Big, low pressure, supple tires on road and gravel bikes feel slower, even though they are demonstrably faster, which is part of the reason they were resisted for so long. Grand Tour bikes have seen their tires getting incrementally bigger year after year for the last 15 years, from 23mm up to 35mm in certain cases. Ditto for gravel racing, where the standard issue tire has crept up from a 35mm a decade ago all the way up to a 2.2" MTB tire now. Yes, big, low pressure, supple road and gravel tires put more rubber in contact with the road than a thinner, stiffer, or higher pressure tire, and yes you can hear the rubber on the road more, but that dimension of tire feel is not the largest contributor to rolling resistance. In fact, or highly dubious evolved monkey brains will often tell us that slower tires are in fact faster, because the higher frequency vibrations of a rougher tire on the road, gravel, or trail are associated in our monkey brains with speed. Pair that with the fact that a smoother bike will allow our senses to pick up on more stimuli, like the sound of our tires on the road, gravel, or trail, and the confirmation bias is complete. More vibration and less noise means I must be going faster! Now where else have I heard this argument before?
I'm not saying that radials have higher or lower rolling resistance than equivalent bias ply tires. I don't have a clue which one it is. I'm saying that we don't have access to convincing data at this time, and I'm not convinced by the arguments I've heard in favor of radial = higher rolling resistance.
It's interesting, I don't find the rolling resistance to be wildly different for trail riding. While standard casing tires feel more snappy, I would posit that...
It's interesting, I don't find the rolling resistance to be wildly different for trail riding. While standard casing tires feel more snappy, I would posit that it's really just a "feeling" because my times are similar given similar compounds, tread patterns, etc. Where I really notice it is on jump lines - I have to work quite a bit more to clear things with the radials vs standard casings. Could be a skill issue. 😄
My educated guess is any increased rolling resistance is partially offset by the ability of the tire to not be knocked off line. It's also helpful that you can run a firmer/faster compound and still get good compliance/damping. I think Schwalbe's marketing of the radials for more "natural" trails and the diagonal casing for everything else tracks.
That's interesting and makes perfect sense to me. When I ride machine built jump trails, I typically want to air up from my tire pressure for...
That's interesting and makes perfect sense to me. When I ride machine built jump trails, I typically want to air up from my tire pressure for natural trails, otherwise I roll tires on berms and especially on hips where I'm turning off a lip. This effect is both slow and feels sketchy as hell, and when I pump up my tires I feel like I can pump more efficiently and put weight into the bike in more places.
Radials have less casing stability, which is their selling point but also their weakness, so I can imagine them being less stable on machine built jump trails (or any high G-force jump), worse for pumping, and potentially shedding speed.
What I've been doing with them is absolutely airing the shtt outta em BMX style, and for me personally it's been a game changer for riding in general. Especially when you can air the tire back down on a tech trail and then you get back into that radial casing feel so it almost feels like having a different tire on. It's like... Shock tuning. In that, it works in both settings for DIFFERENT reasons. Whereas with most other tires I feel there is a quite narrow range of acceptable psi. Mostly in that airing up too much makes it completely worthless for traction.
Ran Alberts front and rear for my previous bike, basically all I do is hard pack jumps so it worked a treat.
Going to throw Romys on the new bike. Just for science...
I know some people have not agreed with the narrative, but I believe radials are specifically for people who want to run high psi tires, NOT for people who want more traction out of the same psi feel in terms of general riding in a straight line, compliance, etc. I think the vast majority of industry tires have already proven to have excellent traction at the 'correct' psi.
In my experience none of them have quite displayed exceptional traction while aired above their optimal psi. The Schwalbe Radials have retained cornering ability while offering the straight line support of a higher psi. Optimal for heavier riders, or riders who love to take dogshtt lines in technical chunk (hey, those BOTH describe me!)
I feel like the hot take is radials are good for low profile tires, alberts romys and maybe something else. They may not feel great with tall knob tires where you're stacking vagueness on top of vagueness, even when you are in the absolute slop and need mud spikes. Not like I have experience, but only saying that because I THOUGHT they would be game changers for slop, and some dudes I talked to online said not really. Just made an already vague riding experience even MORE vague. And I couldn't quite disagree with their logic. Take their word for it, at least.
It's interesting, I don't find the rolling resistance to be wildly different for trail riding. While standard casing tires feel more snappy, I would posit that...
It's interesting, I don't find the rolling resistance to be wildly different for trail riding. While standard casing tires feel more snappy, I would posit that it's really just a "feeling" because my times are similar given similar compounds, tread patterns, etc. Where I really notice it is on jump lines - I have to work quite a bit more to clear things with the radials vs standard casings. Could be a skill issue. 😄
My educated guess is any increased rolling resistance is partially offset by the ability of the tire to not be knocked off line. It's also helpful that you can run a firmer/faster compound and still get good compliance/damping. I think Schwalbe's marketing of the radials for more "natural" trails and the diagonal casing for everything else tracks.
That's interesting and makes perfect sense to me. When I ride machine built jump trails, I typically want to air up from my tire pressure for...
That's interesting and makes perfect sense to me. When I ride machine built jump trails, I typically want to air up from my tire pressure for natural trails, otherwise I roll tires on berms and especially on hips where I'm turning off a lip. This effect is both slow and feels sketchy as hell, and when I pump up my tires I feel like I can pump more efficiently and put weight into the bike in more places.
Radials have less casing stability, which is their selling point but also their weakness, so I can imagine them being less stable on machine built jump trails (or any high G-force jump), worse for pumping, and potentially shedding speed.
What I've been doing with them is absolutely airing the shtt outta em BMX style, and for me personally it's been a game changer for riding...
What I've been doing with them is absolutely airing the shtt outta em BMX style, and for me personally it's been a game changer for riding in general. Especially when you can air the tire back down on a tech trail and then you get back into that radial casing feel so it almost feels like having a different tire on. It's like... Shock tuning. In that, it works in both settings for DIFFERENT reasons. Whereas with most other tires I feel there is a quite narrow range of acceptable psi. Mostly in that airing up too much makes it completely worthless for traction.
Ran Alberts front and rear for my previous bike, basically all I do is hard pack jumps so it worked a treat.
Going to throw Romys on the new bike. Just for science...
I know some people have not agreed with the narrative, but I believe radials are specifically for people who want to run high psi tires, NOT for people who want more traction out of the same psi feel in terms of general riding in a straight line, compliance, etc. I think the vast majority of industry tires have already proven to have excellent traction at the 'correct' psi.
In my experience none of them have quite displayed exceptional traction while aired above their optimal psi. The Schwalbe Radials have retained cornering ability while offering the straight line support of a higher psi. Optimal for heavier riders, or riders who love to take dogshtt lines in technical chunk (hey, those BOTH describe me!)
I feel like the hot take is radials are good for low profile tires, alberts romys and maybe something else. They may not feel great with tall knob tires where you're stacking vagueness on top of vagueness, even when you are in the absolute slop and need mud spikes. Not like I have experience, but only saying that because I THOUGHT they would be game changers for slop, and some dudes I talked to online said not really. Just made an already vague riding experience even MORE vague. And I couldn't quite disagree with their logic. Take their word for it, at least.
Meh at the pressures I run my Schwalbe radials I do have exceptional traction and more than enough support 🤷🏼♂️
And stuff with tall knobs like the Mary, with the more compliant chasing feels more precise and less vague overall than the same tyre with the regular casing
On natural wet or dry, off camber, wet or dry, I find them superior to regular casing
Has anyone else found the Highroller III to be absolutely terrifying on off camber dusty rocks?I was really liking how this tire was handling blown out...
Has anyone else found the Highroller III to be absolutely terrifying on off camber dusty rocks?
I was really liking how this tire was handling blown out and dusty conditions until I took it down some steep and rocky Colorado tech where you have to place the tires on the rocks instead of between them.
I think Im going to switch back to and Assegai after that lol
I've been running double High Roller III's in maxxgrip dh casing and haven't been experiencing this.
If you like the performance of the High Roller III elsewhere, have you considered the new DHX over an Assegai? (which according to the press release and dialogue in these forums, sits somewhere in between)
Has anyone else found the Highroller III to be absolutely terrifying on off camber dusty rocks?I was really liking how this tire was handling blown out...
Has anyone else found the Highroller III to be absolutely terrifying on off camber dusty rocks?
I was really liking how this tire was handling blown out and dusty conditions until I took it down some steep and rocky Colorado tech where you have to place the tires on the rocks instead of between them.
I think Im going to switch back to and Assegai after that lol
What rubber? What casing? What pressure/body weight? Too many variables to blame it on the tread pattern (from my vantage point at least…)
I personally have only been able to get along with a rear radial when it's the wet season and trail speeds are slow. The extra grip is nice for super slick roots/rocks. For most of the year I much prefer a standard diagonal casing in the rear. My setup:
XC hardtail: no radials here
Trail bike: albert radial front, romy diagonal rear (may run a radial when it's proper winter muck later on). The romy wears pretty fast but I love the performance so will keep buying them. Using trail casing with a lightweight insert as the gravity only comes in soft which wore out too fast for my liking.
Enduro/park bike: this one is more complicated. Tried (front) mary radial front in both trail and diagonal casings. I'm 205 geared up and found the mary trail casing to be fine at normal trail speeds but way too vague/squirmy in the bike park or high speed flow trails. The gravity casing fixes this but is pretty heavy, fine for bike park/shuttling but less ideal for big pedal days. Running a tacky chan diagonal casing in the rear which is working really well and wearing acceptably
So currently I swap the front of my enduro bike between the mary trail and gravity casings if I'm going to the bike park which is a bit of a pain. I don't ride this bike much in the winter; once I wear this set out I'll probably go with the Continental Kryptotal DH casings for a set and forget setup for the big bike.
Has anyone else found the Highroller III to be absolutely terrifying on off camber dusty rocks?I was really liking how this tire was handling blown out...
Has anyone else found the Highroller III to be absolutely terrifying on off camber dusty rocks?
I was really liking how this tire was handling blown out and dusty conditions until I took it down some steep and rocky Colorado tech where you have to place the tires on the rocks instead of between them.
I think Im going to switch back to and Assegai after that lol
What rubber? What casing? What pressure/body weight? Too many variables to blame it on the tread pattern (from my vantage point at least…)
Maxxgrip, DD, 23psi, 170lbs.
Judging by other replies in this thread it seems like its a skill issue lmao
The types of rocks Im talking about are the well polished, off camber, dusty rocks you find at bike parks and well trafficked local trails. If I can hit the rock head on or get my knobs on any amount of dirt its fine.
I’ve got an Assegai I need to finish off so Im gonna swap back to that and just keep the High Roller in my spares until I feel like running it again. Might try the DHX once its time for a new tire though.
The last time I posted in this thread I glazed the Kryptotals pretty hard for their long life, but I've been sucked back into Maxxis world by the DHX.
Initial thoughts on DHX after two days in the park
Maxxgrip rubber has confidence inspiring grip on rock slabs. I don't think I have ever been able to go so slow down renegade or captain safety as I did on these tires.
The new DH casing is noticeably more supportive and impact resistant
as expected, these tires are heavy
I don't feel the need to run the tannus pro inserts I had been using with kryptotal DH tires before
All in all, good tires, interested to see how many days I can get on them before the grip fades noticeably.
The last time I posted in this thread I glazed the Kryptotals pretty hard for their long life, but I've been sucked back into Maxxis world...
The last time I posted in this thread I glazed the Kryptotals pretty hard for their long life, but I've been sucked back into Maxxis world by the DHX.
Initial thoughts on DHX after two days in the park
Maxxgrip rubber has confidence inspiring grip on rock slabs. I don't think I have ever been able to go so slow down renegade or captain safety as I did on these tires.
The new DH casing is noticeably more supportive and impact resistant
as expected, these tires are heavy
I don't feel the need to run the tannus pro inserts I had been using with kryptotal DH tires before
All in all, good tires, interested to see how many days I can get on them before the grip fades noticeably.
Maxxterra / new DH casing soon to come for the DHX. MaxxTerra has had a major durability upgrade earlier this without impacting grip compared to the previous version. Glad you like the tires!
The last time I posted in this thread I glazed the Kryptotals pretty hard for their long life, but I've been sucked back into Maxxis world...
The last time I posted in this thread I glazed the Kryptotals pretty hard for their long life, but I've been sucked back into Maxxis world by the DHX.
Initial thoughts on DHX after two days in the park
Maxxgrip rubber has confidence inspiring grip on rock slabs. I don't think I have ever been able to go so slow down renegade or captain safety as I did on these tires.
The new DH casing is noticeably more supportive and impact resistant
as expected, these tires are heavy
I don't feel the need to run the tannus pro inserts I had been using with kryptotal DH tires before
All in all, good tires, interested to see how many days I can get on them before the grip fades noticeably.
Has anyone else found the Highroller III to be absolutely terrifying on off camber dusty rocks?I was really liking how this tire was handling blown out...
Has anyone else found the Highroller III to be absolutely terrifying on off camber dusty rocks?
I was really liking how this tire was handling blown out and dusty conditions until I took it down some steep and rocky Colorado tech where you have to place the tires on the rocks instead of between them.
I think Im going to switch back to and Assegai after that lol
I agree- I'm also front range CO. Have been less impressed with the HR3 than others seem to be.
Anyone try the maxxis dhr2 bike park tires? TB00368500 or TB00537000 I just stumbled onto these looking on BTI.
Looking for a longer lasting rear for the ebike and bike park days. Conti isn't terrible outside of the price. Tried the Michelin bike park tires and flatted 2nd run. Casing was pretty bad. By bike park they mostly me cheap for shops to buy I guess but not for durability.
Anyone try the maxxis dhr2 bike park tires? TB00368500 or TB00537000 I just stumbled onto these looking on BTI. Looking for a longer lasting rear for the...
Anyone try the maxxis dhr2 bike park tires? TB00368500 or TB00537000 I just stumbled onto these looking on BTI.
Looking for a longer lasting rear for the ebike and bike park days. Conti isn't terrible outside of the price. Tried the Michelin bike park tires and flatted 2nd run. Casing was pretty bad. By bike park they mostly me cheap for shops to buy I guess but not for durability.
Yes, they're awesome and I swear by them. Not only do they last a very, very long time, but they also roll super fast, which was great because I often use the same bike for DH shuttles one day and XC pedals the next.
Grip wasn't bad, but I did notice worse vibration damping over small chatter and braking bumps compared to a MaxxGrip or MaxxTerra, which is to be expected. For me it's a great trade-off, and when I discovered that these tires existed it was like finding a four-leaf clover.
Anyone try the maxxis dhr2 bike park tires? TB00368500 or TB00537000 I just stumbled onto these looking on BTI. Looking for a longer lasting rear for the...
Anyone try the maxxis dhr2 bike park tires? TB00368500 or TB00537000 I just stumbled onto these looking on BTI.
Looking for a longer lasting rear for the ebike and bike park days. Conti isn't terrible outside of the price. Tried the Michelin bike park tires and flatted 2nd run. Casing was pretty bad. By bike park they mostly me cheap for shops to buy I guess but not for durability.
Yes, they're awesome and I swear by them. Not only do they last a very, very long time, but they also roll super fast, which was...
Yes, they're awesome and I swear by them. Not only do they last a very, very long time, but they also roll super fast, which was great because I often use the same bike for DH shuttles one day and XC pedals the next.
Grip wasn't bad, but I did notice worse vibration damping over small chatter and braking bumps compared to a MaxxGrip or MaxxTerra, which is to be expected. For me it's a great trade-off, and when I discovered that these tires existed it was like finding a four-leaf clover.
I thought there used to be a DHF DC/DH casing tire but I just never saw something call bike park. Is the casing any different than their DH casing?
Anyone try the maxxis dhr2 bike park tires? TB00368500 or TB00537000 I just stumbled onto these looking on BTI. Looking for a longer lasting rear for the...
Anyone try the maxxis dhr2 bike park tires? TB00368500 or TB00537000 I just stumbled onto these looking on BTI.
Looking for a longer lasting rear for the ebike and bike park days. Conti isn't terrible outside of the price. Tried the Michelin bike park tires and flatted 2nd run. Casing was pretty bad. By bike park they mostly me cheap for shops to buy I guess but not for durability.
Yes, they're awesome and I swear by them. Not only do they last a very, very long time, but they also roll super fast, which was...
Yes, they're awesome and I swear by them. Not only do they last a very, very long time, but they also roll super fast, which was great because I often use the same bike for DH shuttles one day and XC pedals the next.
Grip wasn't bad, but I did notice worse vibration damping over small chatter and braking bumps compared to a MaxxGrip or MaxxTerra, which is to be expected. For me it's a great trade-off, and when I discovered that these tires existed it was like finding a four-leaf clover.
I thought there used to be a DHF DC/DH casing tire but I just never saw something call bike park. Is the casing any different than...
I thought there used to be a DHF DC/DH casing tire but I just never saw something call bike park. Is the casing any different than their DH casing?
There is a dual compound DH casing DHF, and the Maxxis product code is TB00435600. It's the same casing as all the other DH casing tires (until Maxxis released the "New DH" casing last week), but it's only available in 29", not 27.5" like the DHR2.
One thing that's nice about the DHF bike park tire is that it's sliiiiiightly bigger than the 2.4" casing DHR2 dual/DH bike park tire. I like running into rocks and I do most of my damage on the rear wheel and tire, so the extra 3% of casing width and extra 10% of volume is appreciated, if only for the placebo effect.
Unlike the Michelin Bike Park tires (which, as you've mentioned, are terrible), I don't think the term "bike park" is anywhere on the Maxxis product packaging. I think it's just a nickname or shorthand that people use to describe these tires.
Maxxis dual compound works great for me in the dry, but it's pretty terrible if you have damp roots / rocks or actually wet conditions.I had...
Maxxis dual compound works great for me in the dry, but it's pretty terrible if you have damp roots / rocks or actually wet conditions.
I had never heard of the bikepark casing until now. Wire bead and tubeless is a new one on me.
Regarding wire bead and tubeless, it could actually be an advantage for bike park riding and general hooning.
I had an interesting conversation with Pierre-Edoard Ferry about tire development last summer because he was one of the riders involved in developing Michelin's new DH tire line in 2016-ish, including the DH22 and DH34. I was curious why they went with wire beads on the new tires instead of folding. Wire beads are cheaper to manufacturer, but more expensive to ship and store, more difficult to merchandise at a bike shop, and heavier. Didn't make sense to me.
He told me that the wire bead is harder to burp air out of because you have to roll a larger section of bead out of the bead socket in the rim to make air escape. Folding casings are more flexible (duh), so you only have to contort a small section of the bead to cause air to escape. Because Michelin was trying to make winning tires for world cup DH racing and weight wasn't a big concern, they went with wire beads.
No other tire company I can think of uses wire beads on their performance-oriented DH tires, and even Michelin stop using wire beads on the DH22 and 34. But it was an interesting conversation, and worth passing along to our tire nerd conversation.
Saw a YouTube vid recently of the specialized fancy European proto tyre factory where they make the pro racers tyres and it was mentioned that the dh team are using wire bead versions of the tyres
Saw a YouTube vid recently of the specialized fancy European proto tyre factory where they make the pro racers tyres and it was mentioned that the...
Saw a YouTube vid recently of the specialized fancy European proto tyre factory where they make the pro racers tyres and it was mentioned that the dh team are using wire bead versions of the tyres
That's super interesting if true. I wonder if we can spot that in pit bits, because we're always seeing the inside of the team tents, and wire bead tires are real easy to spot.
Regarding wire bead and tubeless, it could actually be an advantage for bike park riding and general hooning.I had an interesting conversation with Pierre-Edoard Ferry about...
Regarding wire bead and tubeless, it could actually be an advantage for bike park riding and general hooning.
I had an interesting conversation with Pierre-Edoard Ferry about tire development last summer because he was one of the riders involved in developing Michelin's new DH tire line in 2016-ish, including the DH22 and DH34. I was curious why they went with wire beads on the new tires instead of folding. Wire beads are cheaper to manufacturer, but more expensive to ship and store, more difficult to merchandise at a bike shop, and heavier. Didn't make sense to me.
He told me that the wire bead is harder to burp air out of because you have to roll a larger section of bead out of the bead socket in the rim to make air escape. Folding casings are more flexible (duh), so you only have to contort a small section of the bead to cause air to escape. Because Michelin was trying to make winning tires for world cup DH racing and weight wasn't a big concern, they went with wire beads.
No other tire company I can think of uses wire beads on their performance-oriented DH tires, and even Michelin stop using wire beads on the DH22 and 34. But it was an interesting conversation, and worth passing along to our tire nerd conversation.
Regarding wire bead and tubeless, it could actually be an advantage for bike park riding and general hooning.I had an interesting conversation with Pierre-Edoard Ferry about...
Regarding wire bead and tubeless, it could actually be an advantage for bike park riding and general hooning.
I had an interesting conversation with Pierre-Edoard Ferry about tire development last summer because he was one of the riders involved in developing Michelin's new DH tire line in 2016-ish, including the DH22 and DH34. I was curious why they went with wire beads on the new tires instead of folding. Wire beads are cheaper to manufacturer, but more expensive to ship and store, more difficult to merchandise at a bike shop, and heavier. Didn't make sense to me.
He told me that the wire bead is harder to burp air out of because you have to roll a larger section of bead out of the bead socket in the rim to make air escape. Folding casings are more flexible (duh), so you only have to contort a small section of the bead to cause air to escape. Because Michelin was trying to make winning tires for world cup DH racing and weight wasn't a big concern, they went with wire beads.
No other tire company I can think of uses wire beads on their performance-oriented DH tires, and even Michelin stop using wire beads on the DH22 and 34. But it was an interesting conversation, and worth passing along to our tire nerd conversation.
That's interesting and makes perfect sense to me. When I ride machine built jump trails, I typically want to air up from my tire pressure for natural trails, otherwise I roll tires on berms and especially on hips where I'm turning off a lip. This effect is both slow and feels sketchy as hell, and when I pump up my tires I feel like I can pump more efficiently and put weight into the bike in more places.
Radials have less casing stability, which is their selling point but also their weakness, so I can imagine them being less stable on machine built jump trails (or any high G-force jump), worse for pumping, and potentially shedding speed.
Has anyone else found the Highroller III to be absolutely terrifying on off camber dusty rocks?
I was really liking how this tire was handling blown out and dusty conditions until I took it down some steep and rocky Colorado tech where you have to place the tires on the rocks instead of between them.
I think Im going to switch back to and Assegai after that lol
Ridden a lot of rocks around SW CO and all over BC. Been awesome for me so far!
Has not been a big problem for me as a front tire on the off-camber dusty rocks at Snow Summit in Big Bear, but I'm not saying it isn't a problem elsewhere. And Snow Summit isn't especially steep, so that might be the difference.
What I've been doing with them is absolutely airing the shtt outta em BMX style, and for me personally it's been a game changer for riding in general. Especially when you can air the tire back down on a tech trail and then you get back into that radial casing feel so it almost feels like having a different tire on. It's like... Shock tuning. In that, it works in both settings for DIFFERENT reasons. Whereas with most other tires I feel there is a quite narrow range of acceptable psi. Mostly in that airing up too much makes it completely worthless for traction.
Ran Alberts front and rear for my previous bike, basically all I do is hard pack jumps so it worked a treat.
Going to throw Romys on the new bike. Just for science...
I know some people have not agreed with the narrative, but I believe radials are specifically for people who want to run high psi tires, NOT for people who want more traction out of the same psi feel in terms of general riding in a straight line, compliance, etc. I think the vast majority of industry tires have already proven to have excellent traction at the 'correct' psi.
In my experience none of them have quite displayed exceptional traction while aired above their optimal psi. The Schwalbe Radials have retained cornering ability while offering the straight line support of a higher psi. Optimal for heavier riders, or riders who love to take dogshtt lines in technical chunk (hey, those BOTH describe me!)
I feel like the hot take is radials are good for low profile tires, alberts romys and maybe something else. They may not feel great with tall knob tires where you're stacking vagueness on top of vagueness, even when you are in the absolute slop and need mud spikes. Not like I have experience, but only saying that because I THOUGHT they would be game changers for slop, and some dudes I talked to online said not really. Just made an already vague riding experience even MORE vague. And I couldn't quite disagree with their logic. Take their word for it, at least.
Meh at the pressures I run my Schwalbe radials I do have exceptional traction and more than enough support 🤷🏼♂️
And stuff with tall knobs like the Mary, with the more compliant chasing feels more precise and less vague overall than the same tyre with the regular casing
On natural wet or dry, off camber, wet or dry, I find them superior to regular casing
I've been running double High Roller III's in maxxgrip dh casing and haven't been experiencing this.
If you like the performance of the High Roller III elsewhere, have you considered the new DHX over an Assegai? (which according to the press release and dialogue in these forums, sits somewhere in between)
What rubber? What casing? What pressure/body weight? Too many variables to blame it on the tread pattern (from my vantage point at least…)
I personally have only been able to get along with a rear radial when it's the wet season and trail speeds are slow. The extra grip is nice for super slick roots/rocks. For most of the year I much prefer a standard diagonal casing in the rear. My setup:
So currently I swap the front of my enduro bike between the mary trail and gravity casings if I'm going to the bike park which is a bit of a pain. I don't ride this bike much in the winter; once I wear this set out I'll probably go with the Continental Kryptotal DH casings for a set and forget setup for the big bike.
Maxxgrip, DD, 23psi, 170lbs.
Judging by other replies in this thread it seems like its a skill issue lmao
The types of rocks Im talking about are the well polished, off camber, dusty rocks you find at bike parks and well trafficked local trails. If I can hit the rock head on or get my knobs on any amount of dirt its fine.
I’ve got an Assegai I need to finish off so Im gonna swap back to that and just keep the High Roller in my spares until I feel like running it again. Might try the DHX once its time for a new tire though.
The last time I posted in this thread I glazed the Kryptotals pretty hard for their long life, but I've been sucked back into Maxxis world by the DHX.
Initial thoughts on DHX after two days in the park
All in all, good tires, interested to see how many days I can get on them before the grip fades noticeably.
Maxxterra / new DH casing soon to come for the DHX. MaxxTerra has had a major durability upgrade earlier this without impacting grip compared to the previous version. Glad you like the tires!
Have you compared it to an HR3 by any chance?
I agree- I'm also front range CO. Have been less impressed with the HR3 than others seem to be.
Assegai is still king for me.
Anyone try the maxxis dhr2 bike park tires? TB00368500 or TB00537000 I just stumbled onto these looking on BTI.
Looking for a longer lasting rear for the ebike and bike park days. Conti isn't terrible outside of the price. Tried the Michelin bike park tires and flatted 2nd run. Casing was pretty bad. By bike park they mostly me cheap for shops to buy I guess but not for durability.
Yes, they're awesome and I swear by them. Not only do they last a very, very long time, but they also roll super fast, which was great because I often use the same bike for DH shuttles one day and XC pedals the next.
Grip wasn't bad, but I did notice worse vibration damping over small chatter and braking bumps compared to a MaxxGrip or MaxxTerra, which is to be expected. For me it's a great trade-off, and when I discovered that these tires existed it was like finding a four-leaf clover.
I thought there used to be a DHF DC/DH casing tire but I just never saw something call bike park. Is the casing any different than their DH casing?
Maxxis dual compound works great for me in the dry, but it's pretty terrible if you have damp roots / rocks or actually wet conditions.
I had never heard of the bikepark casing until now. Wire bead and tubeless is a new one on me.
There is a dual compound DH casing DHF, and the Maxxis product code is TB00435600. It's the same casing as all the other DH casing tires (until Maxxis released the "New DH" casing last week), but it's only available in 29", not 27.5" like the DHR2.
One thing that's nice about the DHF bike park tire is that it's sliiiiiightly bigger than the 2.4" casing DHR2 dual/DH bike park tire. I like running into rocks and I do most of my damage on the rear wheel and tire, so the extra 3% of casing width and extra 10% of volume is appreciated, if only for the placebo effect.
Unlike the Michelin Bike Park tires (which, as you've mentioned, are terrible), I don't think the term "bike park" is anywhere on the Maxxis product packaging. I think it's just a nickname or shorthand that people use to describe these tires.
Regarding wire bead and tubeless, it could actually be an advantage for bike park riding and general hooning.
I had an interesting conversation with Pierre-Edoard Ferry about tire development last summer because he was one of the riders involved in developing Michelin's new DH tire line in 2016-ish, including the DH22 and DH34. I was curious why they went with wire beads on the new tires instead of folding. Wire beads are cheaper to manufacturer, but more expensive to ship and store, more difficult to merchandise at a bike shop, and heavier. Didn't make sense to me.
He told me that the wire bead is harder to burp air out of because you have to roll a larger section of bead out of the bead socket in the rim to make air escape. Folding casings are more flexible (duh), so you only have to contort a small section of the bead to cause air to escape. Because Michelin was trying to make winning tires for world cup DH racing and weight wasn't a big concern, they went with wire beads.
No other tire company I can think of uses wire beads on their performance-oriented DH tires, and even Michelin stop using wire beads on the DH22 and 34. But it was an interesting conversation, and worth passing along to our tire nerd conversation.
Saw a YouTube vid recently of the specialized fancy European proto tyre factory where they make the pro racers tyres and it was mentioned that the dh team are using wire bead versions of the tyres
That's super interesting if true. I wonder if we can spot that in pit bits, because we're always seeing the inside of the team tents, and wire bead tires are real easy to spot.
Braggart!!😂😂
Guilty as charged.
This one should trigger some old heads, IYKYK
Post a reply to: Tire chat (nerds only)