I just got back from a week long trip to whistler where due to some family issues (sick pet) and friends cancelling last minute, I was mostly riding alone. I had a buddy join me for a few hours on 2 days, but other than that, I was left alone with my mediocre riding skills and my thoughts.
With this much time alone, you tend to develop an inner monologue of Hot Takes... and since I had no one to share these with, I am coming here to plop them down. I also don't use social media because of a strong belief in how it erodes mental health... so this is as close as I get to anything like that, hopefully it's not perceived as shit posting.
What’s In (I am not necessarily advocating for these things... just reporting the news)
- Questionable foot wear that is barely attached. Either slip ons, laced vans with the laces tied into individual knots and loose and I saw a handful of pairs of crocs (dafuq?)
- Shorts... granted its hot, but in past years it was also hot and only us middle agers would brave wearing shorts to stay in our ideal temp window...
- Wearing your chest protector over a cotton t-shirt is still very in
- Jorts... big ones that go just below the knee and are straight legged. Not quite Jnco level... but a few inches short and a slightly more straight leg and less flare. Bonus points for a wallet chain.
- Neck braces, mostly Leatt. These were out for years, and now they are for sure otw back in
- Middle aged dudes (jerries) in Hawaiin style shirts (this definitely means that this it out, these guys just missed the memo)
- Camo pants on shredders
- Lady shredders in the park... previously I felt like I saw a stronger ratio of badass ladies trail riding outside of the park then in, but this year it seems like women’s mtb in the park is way stronger
- Being a young, adventuring attractive (male or female) Australian living it up in whistler for the summer, this has been in for years, still very in.
- Riding the park first lift... the place is packed from 10-1 and then nearly empty from 2-7pm.
What’s Out (mostly, or at least on the way out) that was very in past years
- Riding with a hat attached to your pants
- dudes drinking beer between runs... seems like less of that this year then past years
- Maxxis Tires... I feel like I saw less maxxis tires this year then ever before... they still seemed like maybe 50% of tires were maxxis, but it seemed way down from previous years
- Garbo and creekside zones... Garbo was basically empty every time I went up there... had the whole place to myself.
Other Observations:
- The kids are alright - the kiddos are riding better than ever and don’t seem to give many shits about being cool. I’m here for it.
- More absolute shredders on ‘Zink’ bikes then you would think
- The TLD D3 and D4 are still the main helmet of choice
- I saw multiple people doing ghetto lever/race bleeds at the bottom of the fitz lift... first time I’ve ever seen that more than once on a single trip.
- The conglomeration of bike geo/design/purpose/utility and style has left room for a 'vibe' instead of letting the bike you selected do the talking for you. Custom graphics, parts selection, sharpie marks, etc are all the rage to make your bike yours
- I've realized that there are two options for maximizing conditions and enjoyement at whistler, with a sub selection/choice of one. It's based on if you're interested in Top of the World or not... If you're not dead set on TOTW, then the move is to go up within the first 1-2 weeks of Garbo opening (~june 20th) If you want to ride TOW as an objective, then you can choose to go end of july through august and deal with the heat but guaranteed trail access and dry conditions. You can roll the dice on Sept conditions with the rain storms and get the best of both worlds of TOTW and fixed up trails and some rain to smooth things out... but it's a dice roll if you're not a local.
Whistler Trail Strong Opinions
- Del Boca Vista is one of the best trails in the park... and party laps with your crew over-riding it is legendary
- TOTW - Million Dollar - Four Eyes - Line of Control - Call Me Maybe is potentially one of the best top to bottom bike park runs in the world
- Micro Climate, formerly one of my favorites, is now real blown out. Things only stay loamy in whistler for 3 years max it seems... I recommend Dark Crystal for now
- A-line is not played out... no matter how many times you lap it, it's still fun.
- Duffman is under appreciated, so are the alternate lines that shoot off of it.
- Whistler valley trail riding is completely under appreciated and categorically under utilized... seriously, make time for it while you're up there if you can
Lastly, some photos:
No point to additional middle aged self gratification pics on aline and dirt merchant... so here's some landscape shots from TOTW
Siiiiiiiick!
TotW is a literal life goal. I'm not sure I'll be able to make it work out but I appreciate the info about it.
Thanks for documenting and writing about the whole thing!
Haha definitely some interesting takes and some spot on takes! Spending time up here right now. I can see where you are coming from with most of these
I'm buying what you are selling.
Del Boca Vista is best green run ever, Duffman is really fun, TOTW when done right is totally worth it, and the valley trails are amazing. I always have to push friends to try and ride those as all they want to do is ride the park or Blackcomb stuff like MC.
This reminds me I need to get back up there to ride again.
This is great, never been but will there for a week w/ a crew starting Sept. 8, thank you!
great report! del boca vista for life. if there was a fitz top-to-bottom del boca vista, it may be the only trail i ever ride.
Not much i dont like about this post. Except your friends bailing last minute. CLASSIC. i bet they’re married. All my friends are broke or married so i feel you. But damn what a well documented experience. If i saw crocs on the mountain id definitely have to make a comment i think…
Great stuff! Bummer the trip went sideways, but sounds like you made the best of it.
I completely agree with your take on TOTW/Million Dollar/etc. I got to do that a couple of years ago and it’s hands down the best single lap I’ve ever ridden. I’ll think about it randomly now and then and text my buddy who was there with me.
The Crocs are in sport mode, he will be fine.
After some more reflection and since this hit the front page I have a few more additions. I'm glad people enjoyed the post and it's fun to share the experience.
Trails:
Food:
Even before e-bikes took over, the Blackcomb zone was getting overrun with riders. Indiscriminate riding there in the mud or dust bowl conditions unfortunately. That zone has a bunch of "black" loam that doesn't do well in the wet. I've lost interest in riding there but fortunately there are seemingly infinite options in the Whistler valley for high quality, long descents.
I guess I'll share my take from my time up in the area.
Del Boca Vista is a gem, just the best place to try pulling for stupid things. Legit fun on any bike as well.
New A-Line start is way better
Ebikes have not done the Blackcomb trails any favors
The riding outside the park so good, worth a few days exploring for sure
Yes, Pemby gets dusty but its totally worth it just cause Pemberton is just awsome.
Insomina is no A-Line, but it's often in much better shape.
Delayed Fuse's evil right hand turn is evil and I hate it every time I ride it.
Scandinave Spa has turned me into a spa person.
So you run the kyrptotal RE in the Front?
Yall need to shhhhh about del Boca. I feel like a lot of people still don’t ride it cause it’s a green trail. Keep them turns nice!
Del Bocca Vista for life! IMHO, every bike park should have their own version.
This was a v10 rental bike after I had some problems with my nomad 6. But to answer your question, yes, I do run the Krypto RE in front instead of the krypto-F. I prefer it if I'm deciding between the two and it's one of my 3 preferred front tires (assegai, krypto-re, hr3).
Truer words have never been spoken!
Double fuck that right hand turn on delayed fuse.
That one section is harder than anything on missfire or sabre tooth horse, and somehow delayed fuse is still single black.
+1 for del bocca vista
I was lucky enough to spend a lot of time in Whistler for a over ten summers.
I unfortunately haven’t been in ~12 years. Maybe next summer.
I’m just happy to hear that Del Boca still rips and things generally sound like they’ve stayed the same.
I miss Original Sin > Goat’s Gully > In Deep laps soooo bad.
O-Sin -> Shale Master ->O-Sin->Marty Master->Filthy Ape middle gap ->In-Between->In Deep->Duffman->No Duff ->Renegade->???->???? finishing in Brio was my all time favourite T to B gnar lap. Great memories.
I think the park is overrated compared to the valley trails, unless you love flow and hate tech that’s for sure, next time I’ll venture myself more on the black/double black tech in the park and I’ll probably like it more, but the valley trails are just 100%
Totw also heavily overrated as a trail itself but it’s an experience worth doing for the view and for what comes next, million dollar, Kashmir and kush are some of the best trails for my liking, overall, I’d say Whistler is the best place in the world I’ve ridden so far
@ebruner What's your hot take on bringing your enduro bike set up just right, vs. the rental V10s? Assuming your Nomad hadn't gone down, would you rather have just rented a V10 in hindsight?
Two Mushroom is best trail in the park
Unsure why Goats Gully has been closed for weeks..
I think I wouldn’t just cut and dry compare valley trails to bike park trails. First off, they are all amazing and freaking sweet. Second of all, I’m in the bike park to do tech laps on a DH bike at pace over and over and over again. You’re not doing that in the valley.
I leave the bike park for huge pedals, loamers, wilder slabs, etc etc
Two different ball games and both worth it.
Also just got back from a family trip there a week and a half ago.
My 12 year old son was loving the long blue laps out of Creekside, and the nonexistent lift lines and comparatively comfy gondolas were pretty great. Compared to the busy main village it was pretty calm.
My 2 Cents after spending years riding bike parks on an enduro bike but moved to using a DH bike this season is:
Use a DH bike. It's so much better.
The only comparison I can make is if you're a skier the difference between riding your ski touring gear in bounds vs. an actual resort setup. The whole experience feels way less janky and is way more fun. I'm a firm believer in DH bikes now.
this NSMB article sums up the DH bike experience pretty well. https://nsmb.com/articles/downhill-bikes-are-psychotic/
DH bikes are worth every bit in a bike park like Whistler
If you are going to ride the bike park and the option for a DH bike exists whether it is renting it or bringing your own, go with the DH bike. Even if you've never ridden a DH bike and think "oh, I don't know if I need a DH bike, maybe I'm not fast enough for a DH bike, maybe I won't be able to handle a DH bike, maybe it's too much bike for me." Shut up. You don't need that kind of negative talk in your life. Get the DH bike.
another +1 for DH bike
Enduro bikes are really good. But nothing beats or replaces a park bike or full on DH rig in the bike park. It is the whole package that gives you a better experience. Dual crown fork, weight bias of the bike, wheelbase, component specs, geo, weight. They all make a DH bike the ideal choice for bike parks.
my hot take is that just seeing you actually wearing a neck protector means that you have a brain and use it, so I'm much more inclined to go with your takes whether fashion- or trail-related.
@DServy sums it up nicely. I actually rode 3 bikes on this trip, 1 heavily modified enduro bike (XL nomad 6) and 2 dh bikes (L TR11 - L V10), so I got a pretty good chance to directly compare a 175/180 enduro bike to a dh bike. Further helping the comparison, is that WBP is in the worst shape this year for end of July then it has been for the last 6.
Overall, I'd say that a DH bike at the bike park is the move. I've only ridden 1 dh bike (a previous gen, 2022 tr11 for a day up at mammoth) since I got rid of my 2015 giant glory. That wasn't a great measure of what a dh bike is capable of, because mammoth is a place that saps speed quickly, so other then dc10/bullit, you're better off on an enduro bike.
I digress... turns out, dh bikes have come a long way and they are beyond sick. Don't get me wrong, my nomad is measurably more capable then my skills are. It is absolutely enough bike for the park to keep me happy riding all day and in everything but the worst conditions. Where it starts to show up however, is how you feel at the end of the day or riding multiple days in a row.
Going directly from a capable enduro bike to a dh bike is like turning on a cheat code in the middle of playing a video game to slow things down by 25-50%. There is a huge difference in how confident you are pushing the bike, over jumping things and landing to flat, hammering into braking bumps like they aren't there and judging your speed for anything you find in the park. With the enduro bike, you don't notice it, but you need to be on your stuff pretty much all the time. With the DH bike, next thing you know you're just going 'trail speed' and letting go and taking things as they come and riding things comfortably. Once you make a huge mistake and the DH bike basically saves you... you realize just how much work the bike is doing.
So... DH bike is for sure the move for me. The Enduro bike is absolutely fine for blue trails, single blacks and most of the jump trails. The single blacks that are in really hammered conditions, double blacks and braking bumps are where the DH bike starts proving it's worth... that and multiple days in a row with regards to how your body feels.
I have no reason to own a DH bike, I do at most 10-12 days in a bike park a year... but this last experience on a dh bike in the WBP, has me considering building one up this off season for my trip next year.
V10 vs TR11
That being said... I wouldn't necessarily say that any DH bike is universally better. On top of that depending on how particular you are about bike setup/condition rental bikes can be hit or miss. In my case, I started with the TR11, got it all setup to my liking and then promptly blew a rear wheel up towards the end of the first day, and half way through the second day I blew up the vivid air shock on it. I then got switched to a v10 and had to start all over on setup for the next 2 days.
One of the more interesting things for me was that despite being a healthy SC fanboy, I did not prefer the v10 to the tr11. Part of that was the suspension and the setup, but the other part was that the v10 rode like my nomad with a bit more capability if you were riding it below the limit. Once you started to ride it really hard, it didn't get more comfortable... but it did slip into it's element and encouraged riding it harder and harder. The V10 is composed, supportive and very communicative to the rider. You know exactly how much ultimate grip there is and where you are at within that window, you know exactly what the suspension is doing and how much you have left and you have this complete sense of having all of the information you need to keep pushing... even if it's not 'comfortable' or soft. This is sorta the ethos of a pure bread race bike and to me, the v10 rode like exactly that.
the TR11 on the other hand, is an absolute trophy truck of a bike and a true trouble maker. It rode in the middle of the travel other than banging pedals on the ground, I had little idea on where the rear suspension was at and how much capability the bike and I had left. That being said, it was completely erasing bumps, encouraging absolute hooliganism and gloating you on with a feeling of 'is that all of you've got'? It was a simple bike to figure out, with simple manners and a ton of capability.
Part of this is obviously down to the difference in suspension RS for the TR11 vs Fox. It seems to me, in the current generation that the fox 40 in particular is very stiff, tracks well and accurately, but it is anything but compliant/comfortable. The boxxer however, is gushy and willing to give up any/all travel and the same thing goes for the vivid air. The butter cups, linear xl air spring and the air annex seem to be doing their job. Obviously both bikes were over due for service compared to where I would keep them, and I also have a hunch that the rockshox stuff does a bit better at dealing with overrun service intervals.
I digress... I was surprised how much I preferred the TR11 to the v10 and how much I preferred the Rockshox product to the Fox product.
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