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So, the current Maven now has the same size pistons as the Maven Base. The new SwingLink requires less force to actuate the lever, but in return leads to more throw in the lever. By default the BRZ/BSE levers have the contact point setting effectively set at the tightest/least lever throw setting as I assume Sram doesn't intentionally leave the primary seal far away from the reservoir port. The contact point adjuster on the SLV/ULT levers just enables you to adjust the lever for more throw as you can't have the primary seal go over the reservoir port as it would lead to a closed system.
Many bike medias and riders prefer the Maven Base to the Ultimate (at least before the release of the B1). But as the new SwingLink increases lever throw to have an easier pull, the SwingLink loses a big part of the benefit it provides which is to lessen lever throw IMO. I feel like the Maven has enough power with the DirectLink pushrod, so the power aspect of the SwingLink loses it's meaning in a sense.
So in my opinion the only valuable thing on the SLV/ULT are the lever pivot bearings.
The pivot bearings have an OD of 9.52 mm. Has anyone drilled the lever bushing holes of the BRZ/BSE levers to 9.5 mm so bearings could be added to the poverty spec levers?
You would of course need the rod that the pivot bearing screws thread into and a SLV/ULT lever blade (or OAK/Freedom Coast) as the rod is pressed into the lever blade. You would then use the cam from the BSE lever as it is the only one compatible with the DirectLink pushrod
The result would be a slop-free maven that would have the lightest lever throw possible.
Has anyone tried this?
Yes, those calipers are the first generation of the mono block calipers that are now their flagship MTB brakes the Lewis AX.
Matter of fact, they even make 6 piston brakes that are direct mount and 8 piston brakes that mount with adapters.
I know from a guy that the 6 piston just didn't have the power so I believe they remedied that by using the same lever with the larger 4 piston,
I got a set of the Maven B1 "lever tuning kit" to try out. I've never found the A1 stuff to be too firm, but I also seldom ride any descents more than 1,000' vert. And I was running them with the contact adjuster fully inward, which makes the free stroke a bit lighter, plus Oak Components levers (tiny bit longer so theoretically more leverage).
I did my first ride with the B1 cams and SRAM levers. The feel on trail was a lot more significant than what I noticed in the garage and I ended up winding the contact adjuster quite a bit outward as with the lighter lever feel, there wasn't any downside to shortening the free stroke making the deadband firmer. I felt like the resulting lever feel was "Shimano-esque" and when I had the guy I was riding with (who runs XTRs) agreed. Trail conditions are basically anti-grip right now (having a heat wave, basically midsummer dust & sand over hard), so it was hard to judge the modulation quality since my tires were sliding all over the place even without braking.
For my second ride, I paired the B1 cams with the Oak Components levers I was using (mostly for the more pronounced hook, solid feeling, and texture). I'm noticing that on very steep trails where you have to brake really hard just to keep from accelerating, I am having to squeeze the lever harder/further. Conditions here are just godawful anti-grip moon dust right now, so I'm sure that's part of it. But the sensation of having to pull really hard on the lever to get full power out of the brake was something I experienced with Dominions also, which utilize a very high leverage in order to get a light lever feel. I think I will swap back to the A1 cams (with Oak levers) and see if I'm still feeling this in these conditions.
I suspect that my personal preference is for the brake to have a very direct feel, trading a firmer deadband feel for more accessible peak power. If anything, I felt like the A1 lever feel encouraged me to fully let off the brakes when not actively trying to slow down - less emotional support "pull the lever just a little bit but not intending it to do anything."
Big Maven fan here I got the B1 carbon lever upgrade kit sitting beside me as I am currently on some Hayes which was the other end of the spectrum it seems. I like the detail both you and @AndehM provided. I never had any issues with modulating the A1s but I'm a little bummed to hear it may loose that direct feel. Out of curiosity which lever tuning kits are you both on? I picked up the Ultimate to match my experts and wondering if I will experience a different on stamped vs cnc vs carbon lever blade.
I got the Ultimate upgrade kit (carbon levers). I rode yesterday for a couple hours going back to the stock cams and my Oak levers, and I much prefer that feeling. For me, the A1 cams have a more direct / intentional braking feel. Our local trails are almost never straight and steep, so you're rewarded for braking in quick blips to minimize braking in corners and free up the suspension. I have an easier time doing that with the A1 Mavens than any other brake I've tried... the quick application of immense power lets me do my braking in as little amount of time as possible.
I didn't feel anything funny with the carbon lever blades when I tried them. My main complaint with the SRAM lever shape is lack of a strong hook on the end and lack of texture where your finger rests. I put a thin strip of grip tape on them now (like I did with the stock alu levers), and will give them a try with the A1 cams this weekend, just for completeness. I do have some reservations about breaking them but got the carbon kit because it was only $30 more than the SLV kit, and knew that I'd never bother running the lightly machined alu levers over my Oaks.
New brake combo in the works. TRP / Oak Lever / Maven base 18/18mm caliper. Shimano BH90 lines and maxima mineral oil.
I previously tried the 19.5/18mm maven caliper with these same levers, and found the lever throw to be a little excessive. I'm hoping the 18/18mm caliper reduces that a bit. The TRP levers don't suffer the pump out effect experienced with maven/shimano levers. No swing link / servowave action, just heaps of mechanical leverage on a 9mm master cylinder.
It should not be this complicated.
I'm here to nerd out on brakes ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I saw someone this morning on IG that is mega pumped on Radic/Maven combo
Yeah omakacycle does all sorts of fun brake experiments on IG. He claims short lever throw on that combo but I don't buy it.
I haven't used the radic lever but it should be quite similar to the TRP lever. They are both axial cylinder, 9mm master cylinder, and have long levers for plenty of mechanical leverage.
I believe radic achieves the minimal dead stroke their brakes are known for primarily through caliper piston seals that retract very little. They also use 2.3mm rotors, which IME seem to run more true than thinner rotors, leading to less pad rub and allowing less pad retraction.
I'd love to try the radic levers, but $360 USD for levers is kind of steep.
Just to follow up on the question regarding the carbon Maven levers. I rode them yesterday with the A1/red cams and didn't notice anything weird feeling. With grip tape at the hook, they felt just like alloy SRAM levers with grip tape, other than being less cold in the morning.
Well, what did you expect?
A1 cam with the B1 carbon lever (that came with the updates gold cam)?
Yes. But you have to swap the black cam mechanism that's attached to the lever as it's a different profile than the ones on the A1 levers. The gold cams just have a different length pushrod which is only half of the mechanism. I used the 3d printed tools + bolt that came with my Oak levers to press out / reinstall the threaded bushing.
I‘m also a bit confused. My terrain would let me get away with TR4s like 80% of the time for sure. But when I went to Finale Ligure last week I managed to get arm pump in longer trails with my Dominions. I want to upgrade to hopes, a for more power and b for the looks.
I would ask the other way around: would a GR4 be too much power (I.e. too hard to control, skittish, OTB-Feeling)? For someone in the 72-75kg (160lbs) range and an Enduro/AM-Bike (15-16kg), who prefers techy singletrails, has direct access to around 200 vertical meters of trails and goes to Switzerland and Finale Ligure 1-3 times a year. The recommendation from hopes site would be to go for the GR4s. But I want the brake to be as intuitive as possible and don’t be overwhelmed by the power. (I’m also more on the cautious side, but I am rather quick once I know a trail).
Maybe someone else has experience with Dominions and TR4s/GR4s as well.
No experience with Dominions
But with plenty of other brakes
GR4 have massive control other than power, tr4 feel pretty good but lack power when needed for me
81kg riding weight 203 rotors
Unlike mavens with metal pads where it’s all power and no control hopes are still very strong but have lots of control so they won’t feel “too powerful”
I have A4’s and T4V4’s on my trail and enduro/dh race bike respectively, along with a set of Kahas in my parts bin. With the same pads (same compound different shape) and rotors the T4V4’s make more power with less lever force, it’s a pretty noticeable difference over long sustained and steep descents. Nod to the T4V4 for the short lever pull compared to the dominions as well.
FWIW I’m 210 ready to ride and have found that TRP SE05 rotors paired with either Sinter Greens, or Hope Greens/Tricksuff Power+ pads are my favorite for bite and overall power.
TBH I thought I was going to not like the feel of the hopes but in all reality I dont feel like I lost anything coming from Radic Kahas and the Dominions to the hopes. The bite point, is light at the lever, but it’s super consistent and can be felt quite well on the trail. The power deliver is super linear and very intuitive. I go back and fourth between the A4’s and the Hopes and while I still really like the dominions, the hopes are a cut above.
YMMV
I have GR4's and run dominions along side them for ages.
Get the GR4's dude, they're amazing brakes. It's easy to tune power out of them if you're worried. Running the ebike pads is the go, they don't have the savage bite of the race pad, but come on strong and last ages.
Allright all of this sounds, like there is no reason to go for the TR4s or am I missing something? Maybe for my Banshee Phantom the TR4s would be better.
As others have said as well, you won't feel overwhelmed with the GR4. If your Finale experience was such that you really want the most power you can get just "to be sure" (it may not solve your arm pump issues, BTW...that could be many other things, like grips, suspension set-up, riding technique, fitness in demanding terrain...), then by all means go for the GR4. So much modulation on tap, they have never surprised me in any riding situation.
Thanks, that helps me out a lot!
I’ve married a DB8 caliper to a Shimano XT lever. Seems to be holding oil… But will it work well? Or will I be killed?
It’s only the front that I’ve made this frankenbrake with as the caliper was weeping on the shimanos. Haven’t yet bedded it in but it has a much more mushy feel to it than shimano.
For those in the UK you can get a set of db8s for £35 from banana industries.
I'm using same setup just with SLX levers for almost a year. Works like a charm.
On another bike I have DB8 callipers and Formula Cura levers, same story.
In both cases the system is filled with Maxima fluid.
I've run DB8 calipers with Tektro, shimano and (currently, on one bike) zrace levers.
Not dead yet
Thank you both for the reassurance. I've got a custom blend of stock sram fluid and shimano fluid in mine, for performance reasons and definately not because I haven't bothered to do a full bleed...
Just get the whole Radic brake set and don't bother messing about with the Maven bits. They work so well as they are and don't require any piston massaging or other faff... 😜🙃
Got myself a pair of those.
Raicam is an Italian manufacturer. They originated outside of the cycling industry, can’t remember exactly.
It was all very neatly packaged, the bleedkit is supreme, rotors and pads seem very nice. Setting them up was a charm, bleeding was super easy and everything has a nice touch to it. Original Pads have no rattle, pad shape is the same as Shimano, TRP, etc. 4P Brakes, pistons work very evenly, it’s a mineral-oil system…it ticks a lot of boxes for me.
I haven’t put any meters on them yet but this seems to be a very considerable option. This is the Gravity brake which comes in three levels. The one right here sits in the middle of the three. The lever shape feels like a XTR, the pull force is very low similar to Hayes and the little extra squish after pad contact reminds me a lot of Mavens or TRPs. Freestroke and Lever Adjust seems similar to the Hope Idea.
It will take time to give a first comment on how they worked on the trail since I am still injured, but I could share more pictures of the single parts and accessories if you are interested.
Just pulled my bike out of the basement and discovered my Shiguras are leaking oil at the pistons. The donor MT7s were brand new and the brakes were performing perfectly last fall. Standard Shimano mineral oil, not the new lower viscosity stuff. Bummer.
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