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not sure on the pads, but i have RT66 rotors and they are 1.8mm thick, so yeah maybe i aught to try out some thicker ones. Any recommendations?
hmm interesting, this is a problem ive had across two different sets of these brakes now. Someone else mentioned maybe changing pads or rotors so im gonna give that a shot before drop a bunch of cash on a fresh set of brakes.
If you don't know what pads you're running, I would highly recommend checking. Resin pads are super common on budget brakes and on budget bikes. Here's a quick guide for your 4-piston Deore brakes, because Shimano's naming and numbering system is mega confusing:
Metallic compound brake pads for Shimano BR-M6120 (what you want): D02S (un-finned, non-Icetech)
Resin compound brake pads for Shimano BR-M6120 (these suck, and I suspect you may have these on your brakes, as they're common on budget bikes and brakes): D03S (un-finned, non-Icetech)
According to Shimano, you can't run Icetech finned pads on a Deore M6120 caliper. According to various sources online, you can run the old-style Saint/Zee Icetech finned pad in a M6120 caliper, but I wouldn't bother. Upgrading from resin to metallic compound will be worlds better, and the improvement that comes with finned pads is marginal. And, as others have said, until you rebleed the brakes, this is all academic. There's a very good chance your brakes just need a good bleed, and if that is the problem, nothing else really matters. And FYI the brake pads are different for the smaller 2-piston Deore brake, so that's another easy place to make a mistake, because the product names are almost identical (BR-M6100 vs. BR-M6120). Here's a full Shimano pad chart, if you're interested: https://bikecomponents-us.com/blogs/bikecomponents/making-sense-of-shimano-brake-pads-compounds
Theres some quick and easy upgrades for Shimano 5-6-8/9 series, such as pads, sinter, galfer(pro or purple) and an aggressive rotor with more vertical cut outs, such as Galfer wave or shark.
I wish the TRP r5 rotors fit(2.3mm rotors, they may but its tight) more easily as they are a far cheaper option than Shark's.
Personally when i have to use shimano's I will pair them with Galfer Wave's, pro pads in front and purple in rear.(223/223fr or 223f and 200/203r)
Be aware if you use them in wet conditions the waves + Pro green's will destroy the pads very quick.(otherwise use the well tested purple pads all the time)
2.3 fit easy as on shimanos
I bought the Hope 2.3MM rotors on Jenson for $56 each.
I grabbed a bunch of galfer sharks for $54.99 while they lasted on Jenson haha
The metallic pads (d02s) from Shimano are cheap and great performing. Upsize the rotors if you want even more power
But a good bleed is everything of course.
TRP R1s 2.3mm rotors are close to $50 CAD around here and are a killer option. Silent, rust treatment on the rotor spokes and a wear indicator.
I have a large family (5 of us) and use either shimano or TRP brakes on all the bikes. I started using TRP rotors and the D20S pads on them all. I've noticed no downside to the TRP rotors on the Shimano brakes at all. I started using them because I would go through one RT66 rotor per set of organic brake pads. After a while I gave up and just started using the TRP rotors.
I am currently testing a set of ZTTO 2.3 rotors and BUCKLOS ceramic pads on my ebike with TRP DH-R's (it gets the most mileage) with surprising results. They may become my go to.
Here’s what the old ones look like (or at least one generation) sorry I have huck monster in the garage and needed to share. Safety pins to save weight, obviously
Are MTB brakes generally inconsistent in their performance or something? Like, two exact sets of brakes can perform completely differently?
I've been watching a bunch of videos, trying to figure out which ones might be a nice upgrade in the future. But the more I research, the more confused I get.
One person will claim a product is the best most reliable brake they have ever used, and all their friends love them too... And then the next video will say the exact opposite; and this seems to be consistent across almost every single model/brand I've looked into.
There are a ton of variables when it comes to brakes. A lot of it can be user preference. Some people may prefer their brakes to feel one way while others would prefer something completely different. Some people like their brakes pulling close to the bar with lots of modulation, and others may like it to grab further out and offer light switch like power delivery.
Furthermore, the bleed process can heavily influence how a brake feels. A bad bleed job can result in a bad or inconsistent feeling brake. And then add rotors and pad compounds to the mix and you have a lot of variables that can heavily influence how a brake feels. Take the maven for example. While it's a good brake at it's core, a bad bleed or not following the piston massage procedure can lead to an inconsistent or bad lever feel. It's easy to argue one set of brakes could feel night and day different compared to another based on the bleed process by the end user and rotor/pad setup. I've felt Mavens on shop floors that feel like utter garbage compared to properly bled Maven systems that feel really good and sharp.
It really depends on what you're looking for out of a brake. PB's big brake review has shown that the Saint still has top-end power even after 10+ years in its product cycle but it offers little to no modulation compared to other options out there, and the power delivery with it is like a light switch, which may be a total turn-off to some people but a huge plus for others. It's easy to get lost in the weeds and nerd out on brakes, hence this forum. I've gotten carried away testing brakes and seeing what I like best. I've been on Saints, Mavens, TRP's, Hope, Lewis, trickstuff, Intend and Hayes brakes over the last couple years to really play around and see what fits me best.
Definitely can be. 2 sets of Dominion A4s, both purchased at almost the same time, feel a bit different regardless of the fact its the same rotors, pads, fluid, bleed kit & procedure. Just slightly different tolerances out of the factory I'd say, not enough to really bother me toooo much but for sure noticeable. Same goes for 3 other bikes with Saints but the differences are less.
@luisgutrod
I stumbled over your backlink, so I thought I'd provide direct insights. We reached out to Intend/Cornelius if he would be open to publishing a review. We got the Flash38 for a different (upcoming) project. They did not want the (free) review on top of what other project we offered. It is part of their philosophy, and because we did not buy the fork, we will respect this.
@sethimus
We follow the strict rule, which is a law over here in Germany: if you get money to do an editorial, you must declare it clearly. If the article got support from the brand, it will show at the very top under the title. It is up to you to decide which media outlets are frank about this.
How TESTPILOT started is a longer story.
Short version: It was/is a side gig, but people seem to like the niche of nerd stuff we publish, so it takes up more of our time and grows.
@TEAMROBOT I have an older Intend blackline edge, happy to lend to you guys if you require. Also have an extra set of trinities.
Imagine two different people with the same size feet trying on the same pair of shoes. The first person tries on the shoes, and loves them. The second person puts the left shoe on their right foot, and the right shoe on their left foot, then goes and tells all their friends "these shoes are terrible."
This is what it's like when people comment about brakes without doing some basic problem solving first. Do you have a good brake bleed? Were you using the correct kind of pads and rotor for your application? Were any of the braking surfaces contaminated? Was the caliper properly aligned on the rotor?Were you using fresh pads? Were you using a decent rotor?
For instance, you wouldn't believe how much of a difference caliper alignment on the rotor can make to brake lever feel. I can make a great feeling brake suddenly feel like garbage by moving the caliper 1-2mm on the adapter. Similarly, as a dumb kid I used to wash my bike with Simple Green, and my brakes never felt as good as my friends brakes. Once I stopped using Simple Green.. voila! My brakes felt great every time.
There are so many opportunities for user error on hydraulic disk brakes, and the effects are so noticeable! Brake feel is such an immediate, visceral part of the mountain bike experience. When your brakes don't feel right, it's hard to think about anything else.
The shoe thing is such a great analogy. It never fails when helping someone diagnose their brake problems that incorrect bleed ends up being the issue. The worst part is they will SWEAR up and down that they bleed the brakes properly. After going around in circles you will finally tease out that they found some random you tube video that swore this one simple trick was all you needed to get a perfect bleed.
WATCH THE DAMN MANUFACTURES BLEED VIDEO. Don't skimp on universal bleed kits, stop using shortcuts and be patient.
Unrelated to me ranting at no one in particular, have you or anyone else on the vital crew ran into the Maven issue with the lever being hard to pull? To what MoldyMTB pointed out, its something that you hear about online, but I have never felt the issue on any mavens I have tried. Over on PB they pointed out that the first run of mavens had this issue. If it truly is a problem? Has anyone reached out to SRAM for a comment on it? Or is this just the Prius stuck gas pedal of our generation.
How odd, for a manufacturer to ask you to not include their fork in a group test review.
What did you think of the intend? Is it work $2k?
Get some 2.3mm rotors from Aliexpress. Cheap, last long and will give a much better bite to your Shimano brakes even without a bleed to push the pistons out.
https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1005007211041067.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.10.3d661802kzBsN5&gatewayAdapt=glo2fra
I've not had a good experience with rotors from ali. I've bought two and both have a very non-uniform thickness. the brakes pulsed in a very noticeable way.
It is quite the debate on bikes, components, and the price tag brands put on them. If you look at it from a business standpoint and count in the overhead costs, developing costs, tariffs, shipping, different labor costs in different countries... When people are aware of "how low" the unit prices are, their first reaction is being angry. It makes such an immense difference if you either make a couple of thousand units in Asia or just a hundred locally in the US or in Germany.
I, personally, think that you can have an absolute blast in the woods on a cheap bike/suspension. No product, no matter how crazy good the performance is, will make you a better rider. Maybe it will boost your confidence, but that is not because you have a couple of extra dials and a shiny finish.
Thinking of Intend and Push Industries—both companies follow their unique path, and every unit they put together will cost them more to make than anything manufactured by the thousands in the Far East by the big players.
Can you say either the boutique or the mass-produced suspension will provide the better performance? It depends on what you as a rider can feel on the trail and how hard you can push it or if you even set up your midrange suspension in the best possible way.
If you look at an Intend or a Push and you have a soft spot for well-made things with a love for detail, those brands are worth every penny.
Rambling over.
you get any rubbing issues with those thick rotors?
I am not surprised that Cornelius refuses to give you folks your 15 minutes of fame.
The rotors I received from Ali were NOT straight in any way. It probably took me 20 minutes to get both nice and straight.
I've been thinking about trying a set of these...
https://www.lewisbike.com/lewis-eb-20-21-brakes.html
I have a 57lb EMTB that I think they would be prefect to try them out on.
I got the impression that the fork was originally provided by Intend for reason(s) other than a review, in which case I think it's fair for them to request exclusion
I bought 4 and they are mint. I'll be buying them again.
Not with a standard bleed. I personally prefer to push the pistons out so as to have very little lever travel before the pads hit the rotor and still have no rotor rub. I also have some 3mm thick rotors (from the Italian brand Braking) but these require filing the caliper and running slightly worn out pads. They do work great on super long or steep descents. No overheating and no need for 220mm rotors.
Do those use the same post mount standard as MTBs, or is it something with bigger spacing for e-moto that would require an adaptor? It wasn't immediately obvious from the info.
Post a reply to: Nerding out on Brakes shall we? Not another tech deraliment