I finally had some time to swap the T4V4 to the GR4 Evo, just on the stand they’re very different, I just did a quick swap keeping the old lines and everything else ( pads/rotors )
Few things I’ve noticed, way less clearance in the pad/rotor, bringing back some ptsd from the Mt7, I liked the clearance with the v4 🧐
Tomorrow test, anyone noticed the same thing with the GR4/TR4?
I also noticed the Diaphragm is the other way around now, without the middle rised part, and way softer, although I believe the bleeding port is absolutely useless with a diaphragm designed like this, like Lewis the bleeding port is in the wrong spot, like this you’d need to flip the master around to ensure you remove all the air and even so, I don’t see how it’s possible to not get it trapped. I feel it should’ve been placed at the widest part of the master and be bled like a Trickstuff with the lever vertical. So I’ll just keep going with the old bleeding style that works great
I also noticed the Diaphragm is the other way around now, without the middle rised part, and way softer, although I believe the bleeding port is...
I also noticed the Diaphragm is the other way around now, without the middle rised part, and way softer, although I believe the bleeding port is absolutely useless with a diaphragm designed like this, like Lewis the bleeding port is in the wrong spot, like this you’d need to flip the master around to ensure you remove all the air and even so, I don’t see how it’s possible to not get it trapped. I feel it should’ve been placed at the widest part of the master and be bled like a Trickstuff with the lever vertical. So I’ll just keep going with the old bleeding style that works great
To me it looks like the bleed port is at the highest point when the lever is on the bike and the diaphragm has been redesigned to allow air bubbles to travel towards it without getting trapped. With the old diaphragm there definitely would have been a location near the bleed port which would have trapped air behind the ridge.
I also noticed the Diaphragm is the other way around now, without the middle rised part, and way softer, although I believe the bleeding port is...
I also noticed the Diaphragm is the other way around now, without the middle rised part, and way softer, although I believe the bleeding port is absolutely useless with a diaphragm designed like this, like Lewis the bleeding port is in the wrong spot, like this you’d need to flip the master around to ensure you remove all the air and even so, I don’t see how it’s possible to not get it trapped. I feel it should’ve been placed at the widest part of the master and be bled like a Trickstuff with the lever vertical. So I’ll just keep going with the old bleeding style that works great
This is where the bleed port sits (in a spot where the air can travel out - that's why the diaphragm has been redesigned). I've bled several of these by now via the bleed port with good results each time.
I also noticed the Diaphragm is the other way around now, without the middle rised part, and way softer, although I believe the bleeding port is...
I also noticed the Diaphragm is the other way around now, without the middle rised part, and way softer, although I believe the bleeding port is absolutely useless with a diaphragm designed like this, like Lewis the bleeding port is in the wrong spot, like this you’d need to flip the master around to ensure you remove all the air and even so, I don’t see how it’s possible to not get it trapped. I feel it should’ve been placed at the widest part of the master and be bled like a Trickstuff with the lever vertical. So I’ll just keep going with the old bleeding style that works great
This is where the bleed port sits (in a spot where the air can travel out - that's why the diaphragm has been redesigned). I've bled...
This is where the bleed port sits (in a spot where the air can travel out - that's why the diaphragm has been redesigned). I've bled several of these by now via the bleed port with good results each time.
I guess I might’ve not noticed but it still looks to me like the bleeding port hole is not that “clear” through the diaphragm, anyway, any thoughts regarding the piston rollback - pad/rotor clearance?
I finally had some time to swap the T4V4 to the GR4 Evo, just on the stand they’re very different, I just did a quick swap...
I finally had some time to swap the T4V4 to the GR4 Evo, just on the stand they’re very different, I just did a quick swap keeping the old lines and everything else ( pads/rotors )
Few things I’ve noticed, way less clearance in the pad/rotor, bringing back some ptsd from the Mt7, I liked the clearance with the v4 🧐
Tomorrow test, anyone noticed the same thing with the GR4/TR4?
The lack of pad/rotor clearance is real. I'm guessing it's a result of a shorter lever throw over the tech 4, which I do really like but if your disc is rubbing or isn't centred in the pads perfectly the firm bite disappears. The pistons seem to have a hard time staying centred even when lubricated, which will be frustrating for a lot of people to correct every few rides but for me it's worth it. It's much easier with a 1.8 rotor to keep them consistant as much as I enjoy a 2.3 so I switched back to HS2s from Trps. Kind of makes sense as hopes own rotors are 1.8. However when everything's right these things are the dream!
I finally had some time to swap the T4V4 to the GR4 Evo, just on the stand they’re very different, I just did a quick swap...
I finally had some time to swap the T4V4 to the GR4 Evo, just on the stand they’re very different, I just did a quick swap keeping the old lines and everything else ( pads/rotors )
Few things I’ve noticed, way less clearance in the pad/rotor, bringing back some ptsd from the Mt7, I liked the clearance with the v4 🧐
Tomorrow test, anyone noticed the same thing with the GR4/TR4?
The lack of pad/rotor clearance is real. I'm guessing it's a result of a shorter lever throw over the tech 4, which I do really like...
The lack of pad/rotor clearance is real. I'm guessing it's a result of a shorter lever throw over the tech 4, which I do really like but if your disc is rubbing or isn't centred in the pads perfectly the firm bite disappears. The pistons seem to have a hard time staying centred even when lubricated, which will be frustrating for a lot of people to correct every few rides but for me it's worth it. It's much easier with a 1.8 rotor to keep them consistant as much as I enjoy a 2.3 so I switched back to HS2s from Trps. Kind of makes sense as hopes own rotors are 1.8. However when everything's right these things are the dream!
i'm actually very happy i've chosen 2.3 rotors vs anything slimmer that doesn't stay straight and is harder to straighten, i did a solid 45km 1150m ride today and they feel more like the mavens with a nicer feel than like the t4v4 i think, way less noisy, way firmer bite point, a bit heavier free stroke and definitely more bite, i like them!
I finally had some time to swap the T4V4 to the GR4 Evo, just on the stand they’re very different, I just did a quick swap...
I finally had some time to swap the T4V4 to the GR4 Evo, just on the stand they’re very different, I just did a quick swap keeping the old lines and everything else ( pads/rotors )
Few things I’ve noticed, way less clearance in the pad/rotor, bringing back some ptsd from the Mt7, I liked the clearance with the v4 🧐
Tomorrow test, anyone noticed the same thing with the GR4/TR4?
The lack of pad/rotor clearance is real. I'm guessing it's a result of a shorter lever throw over the tech 4, which I do really like...
The lack of pad/rotor clearance is real. I'm guessing it's a result of a shorter lever throw over the tech 4, which I do really like but if your disc is rubbing or isn't centred in the pads perfectly the firm bite disappears. The pistons seem to have a hard time staying centred even when lubricated, which will be frustrating for a lot of people to correct every few rides but for me it's worth it. It's much easier with a 1.8 rotor to keep them consistant as much as I enjoy a 2.3 so I switched back to HS2s from Trps. Kind of makes sense as hopes own rotors are 1.8. However when everything's right these things are the dream!
Yeah the GR4's are tight for space ay. Phenomenal brakes though, I love them. Best of all the brakes by far.
With the master cylinder moving the same amount of oil and the piston calipers now bigger, you get less pad rollback (i.e. they sit closer to the rotor in the default, non-activated state). That's the trade-off for that power increase over the E4/V4s. FWIW I have had two Evo sets running concurrently since 1 month before the launch, a set of TR4s and a set of GR4s, and I can't say I can quantify more of a pad rubbing issue or anything like that compared to the previous generation. Granted, they are still pretty new and I did do some basic piston massaging to help them along initially, but they haven't needed much after that beyond the occasional slight pad realignment (which I usually do without even taking the wheels off...just push the pistons back into the caliper a bit by wiggling a flat screwdriver in behind the opposing pad, and twisting a bit, then pump the lever again while paying attention to how the pistons behave when they extend back out again - the goal being to not see the rotor move to either side when engaging the brake).
Random thoughtHas anyone ever tried to run the Hope calipers either just the stainless piston? Without the “plastic” insert?I’m curious if it would affect the noise...
Random thought
Has anyone ever tried to run the Hope calipers either just the stainless piston? Without the “plastic” insert?
I’m curious if it would affect the noise at all, give that Trickstuff, Radic, Intend and more use the same style but empty piston and are quiet
I'd advise against it for one reason alone: Stainless conducts heat mighty well. Those inserts are to help insulate those pistons and keep the fluid from boiling.
Random thoughtHas anyone ever tried to run the Hope calipers either just the stainless piston? Without the “plastic” insert?I’m curious if it would affect the noise...
Random thought
Has anyone ever tried to run the Hope calipers either just the stainless piston? Without the “plastic” insert?
I’m curious if it would affect the noise at all, give that Trickstuff, Radic, Intend and more use the same style but empty piston and are quiet
I'd advise against it for one reason alone: Stainless conducts heat mighty well. Those inserts are to help insulate those pistons and keep the fluid from...
I'd advise against it for one reason alone: Stainless conducts heat mighty well. Those inserts are to help insulate those pistons and keep the fluid from boiling.
I get it, although I believe this is a 0 issue in the bikes, again considering the best brakes in the market have no insert and just hollow stainless pistons
Random thoughtHas anyone ever tried to run the Hope calipers either just the stainless piston? Without the “plastic” insert?I’m curious if it would affect the noise...
Random thought
Has anyone ever tried to run the Hope calipers either just the stainless piston? Without the “plastic” insert?
I’m curious if it would affect the noise at all, give that Trickstuff, Radic, Intend and more use the same style but empty piston and are quiet
I'd advise against it for one reason alone: Stainless conducts heat mighty well. Those inserts are to help insulate those pistons and keep the fluid from...
I'd advise against it for one reason alone: Stainless conducts heat mighty well. Those inserts are to help insulate those pistons and keep the fluid from boiling.
I get it, although I believe this is a 0 issue in the bikes, again considering the best brakes in the market have no insert and...
I get it, although I believe this is a 0 issue in the bikes, again considering the best brakes in the market have no insert and just hollow stainless pistons
Sure thing, but those pistons were also designed to be run that way and likely have thicker walls. Which also begets the q of would those Hope pistons' sidewalls buckle under braking load?
I finally had some time to swap the T4V4 to the GR4 Evo, just on the stand they’re very different, I just did a quick swap...
I finally had some time to swap the T4V4 to the GR4 Evo, just on the stand they’re very different, I just did a quick swap keeping the old lines and everything else ( pads/rotors )
Few things I’ve noticed, way less clearance in the pad/rotor, bringing back some ptsd from the Mt7, I liked the clearance with the v4 🧐
Tomorrow test, anyone noticed the same thing with the GR4/TR4?
The lack of pad/rotor clearance is real. I'm guessing it's a result of a shorter lever throw over the tech 4, which I do really like...
The lack of pad/rotor clearance is real. I'm guessing it's a result of a shorter lever throw over the tech 4, which I do really like but if your disc is rubbing or isn't centred in the pads perfectly the firm bite disappears. The pistons seem to have a hard time staying centred even when lubricated, which will be frustrating for a lot of people to correct every few rides but for me it's worth it. It's much easier with a 1.8 rotor to keep them consistant as much as I enjoy a 2.3 so I switched back to HS2s from Trps. Kind of makes sense as hopes own rotors are 1.8. However when everything's right these things are the dream!
Newer centerlines (A2 variants) are 2mm, they refer to them as rounded edges uci compliant etc. I'm not sure when the switchover happened but I've noticed them turning up more frequently on bikes.
The lack of pad/rotor clearance is real. I'm guessing it's a result of a shorter lever throw over the tech 4, which I do really like...
The lack of pad/rotor clearance is real. I'm guessing it's a result of a shorter lever throw over the tech 4, which I do really like but if your disc is rubbing or isn't centred in the pads perfectly the firm bite disappears. The pistons seem to have a hard time staying centred even when lubricated, which will be frustrating for a lot of people to correct every few rides but for me it's worth it. It's much easier with a 1.8 rotor to keep them consistant as much as I enjoy a 2.3 so I switched back to HS2s from Trps. Kind of makes sense as hopes own rotors are 1.8. However when everything's right these things are the dream!
Newer centerlines (A2 variants) are 2mm, they refer to them as rounded edges uci compliant etc. I'm not sure when the switchover happened but I've noticed...
Newer centerlines (A2 variants) are 2mm, they refer to them as rounded edges uci compliant etc. I'm not sure when the switchover happened but I've noticed them turning up more frequently on bikes.
You certain of that? I just bought a set of rounded edge centerlines for a bike I was selling (to take new hs2's off) and they were still 1.8mm.
Newer centerlines (A2 variants) are 2mm, they refer to them as rounded edges uci compliant etc. I'm not sure when the switchover happened but I've noticed...
Newer centerlines (A2 variants) are 2mm, they refer to them as rounded edges uci compliant etc. I'm not sure when the switchover happened but I've noticed them turning up more frequently on bikes.
Just switched from Shimano XTs (8120) to Formula Cura 4, mostly for the silver color matching 😆 However I feel like the brakes are not as powerful as the Shimanos. I've bled them 2 times, all according to the manual and also looked up a few other methods on youtube. Running HS2 200mm rotors front and back and stock metallic pads.
Anyone in here with any good tips regarding the Cura 4? Or are they just lackluster in power.
"Average Joe" advise: Coming from SRAM G2 brakes to Cura 4 was a great update for my Canyon spectral years ago. After reading reviews/advises from other riders, I did change rotors and pads for Galfer in 2025: Wave rotors and red pads. They defintely feel better (to me). Cant give you any comparison with Shimano XT, sorry.
Just switched from Shimano XTs (8120) to Formula Cura 4, mostly for the silver color matching 😆However I feel like the brakes are not as powerful...
Just switched from Shimano XTs (8120) to Formula Cura 4, mostly for the silver color matching 😆 However I feel like the brakes are not as powerful as the Shimanos. I've bled them 2 times, all according to the manual and also looked up a few other methods on youtube. Running HS2 200mm rotors front and back and stock metallic pads.
Anyone in here with any good tips regarding the Cura 4? Or are they just lackluster in power.
Just to put a word in on direct comparison, I had a bike with Xt8120 and another with Cura4, both with MTX red pads. I found the cura 4 easily more power on tap. So to me something seems weird here. I never used formula pads, but the enduro mag test made it seem a pad upgrade had a major impact on power, that maybe is the case here? The bleed shouldn’t matter unless it feels spongy.
I would try doing a full reset bedding process using acetone on the rotor and a bit of sandpaper on both the rotor and pads. Maybe there’s a bit of leftover issues with your old brakes and the bedding process went wrong. If that doesn’t work then consider a different set of aftermarket pads.
Just to put a word in on direct comparison, I had a bike with Xt8120 and another with Cura4, both with MTX red pads. I found...
Just to put a word in on direct comparison, I had a bike with Xt8120 and another with Cura4, both with MTX red pads. I found the cura 4 easily more power on tap. So to me something seems weird here. I never used formula pads, but the enduro mag test made it seem a pad upgrade had a major impact on power, that maybe is the case here? The bleed shouldn’t matter unless it feels spongy.
I would try doing a full reset bedding process using acetone on the rotor and a bit of sandpaper on both the rotor and pads. Maybe there’s a bit of leftover issues with your old brakes and the bedding process went wrong. If that doesn’t work then consider a different set of aftermarket pads.
Thanks, I'm thinking in the same direction that it might be the stock pads that aren't up to standards. Lever feel is pretty good, although they feel less on/off like Shimano, more in the line of old Sram in terms of feel.
I have a set of galfer pads on hand that I might try instead.
Thanks, I'm thinking in the same direction that it might be the stock pads that aren't up to standards. Lever feel is pretty good, although they feel...
Thanks, I'm thinking in the same direction that it might be the stock pads that aren't up to standards. Lever feel is pretty good, although they feel less on/off like Shimano, more in the line of old Sram in terms of feel.
I have a set of galfer pads on hand that I might try instead.
Lever feel sounds right. The end of the bite point has a bit of flex at the end and isn't as firm as a shimano or a Hayes. But it should have plenty of power on tap. I can't quite say what is stronger between Cura4 and the Hayes A4, its just how the lever delivers that power that is different.
FWIW, I added the FRS/RCS lever aftermarket, and liked the change in feel you can get. It allows a bite earlier or later in the lever throw, almost allowing you to be closer between a Shimano and Sram feel. But if you like to run your lever close to the bar don't get them as stock you can run them closer than with the lever upgrade.
Are you sure those are stock sinter pads („brass-y“ golden backplate)? I’m running them exclusively (mostly cura2 tho) with great results on nearly every rotor I’ve tried. The old organic formula compound (black backing) is weak in comparison.
I finally had some time to swap the T4V4 to the GR4 Evo, just on the stand they’re very different, I just did a quick swap keeping the old lines and everything else ( pads/rotors )
Few things I’ve noticed, way less clearance in the pad/rotor, bringing back some ptsd from the Mt7, I liked the clearance with the v4 🧐
Tomorrow test, anyone noticed the same thing with the GR4/TR4?
I also noticed the Diaphragm is the other way around now, without the middle rised part, and way softer, although I believe the bleeding port is absolutely useless with a diaphragm designed like this, like Lewis the bleeding port is in the wrong spot, like this you’d need to flip the master around to ensure you remove all the air and even so, I don’t see how it’s possible to not get it trapped. I feel it should’ve been placed at the widest part of the master and be bled like a Trickstuff with the lever vertical. So I’ll just keep going with the old bleeding style that works great
To me it looks like the bleed port is at the highest point when the lever is on the bike and the diaphragm has been redesigned to allow air bubbles to travel towards it without getting trapped. With the old diaphragm there definitely would have been a location near the bleed port which would have trapped air behind the ridge.
This is where the bleed port sits (in a spot where the air can travel out - that's why the diaphragm has been redesigned). I've bled several of these by now via the bleed port with good results each time.
I guess I might’ve not noticed but it still looks to me like the bleeding port hole is not that “clear” through the diaphragm, anyway, any thoughts regarding the piston rollback - pad/rotor clearance?
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The lack of pad/rotor clearance is real. I'm guessing it's a result of a shorter lever throw over the tech 4, which I do really like but if your disc is rubbing or isn't centred in the pads perfectly the firm bite disappears. The pistons seem to have a hard time staying centred even when lubricated, which will be frustrating for a lot of people to correct every few rides but for me it's worth it. It's much easier with a 1.8 rotor to keep them consistant as much as I enjoy a 2.3 so I switched back to HS2s from Trps. Kind of makes sense as hopes own rotors are 1.8. However when everything's right these things are the dream!
i'm actually very happy i've chosen 2.3 rotors vs anything slimmer that doesn't stay straight and is harder to straighten,
i did a solid 45km 1150m ride today and they feel more like the mavens with a nicer feel than like the t4v4 i think, way less noisy, way firmer bite point, a bit heavier free stroke and definitely more bite, i like them!
Yeah the GR4's are tight for space ay. Phenomenal brakes though, I love them. Best of all the brakes by far.
pretty impressive yeah, i still have the little devil on my shoulder telling me to find some radic masters to pair up with the GR4 calipers
That would be a fun test, I'd hate to miss out on the ease of adjustability of the hope master though.
I've chopped a set of rear pads already haha, but such precise power for steeps and the likes 🤌🤌
i mean on the gr4 i'm maxed out anyway, lever full close to the bar and bite point all out, it's short enough and far enough
FWIW HS2s are 2 mm. Centerlines are 1,8 mm.
Random thought
Has anyone ever tried to run the Hope calipers either just the stainless piston? Without the “plastic” insert?
I’m curious if it would affect the noise at all, give that Trickstuff, Radic, Intend and more use the same style but empty piston and are quiet
With the master cylinder moving the same amount of oil and the piston calipers now bigger, you get less pad rollback (i.e. they sit closer to the rotor in the default, non-activated state). That's the trade-off for that power increase over the E4/V4s. FWIW I have had two Evo sets running concurrently since 1 month before the launch, a set of TR4s and a set of GR4s, and I can't say I can quantify more of a pad rubbing issue or anything like that compared to the previous generation. Granted, they are still pretty new and I did do some basic piston massaging to help them along initially, but they haven't needed much after that beyond the occasional slight pad realignment (which I usually do without even taking the wheels off...just push the pistons back into the caliper a bit by wiggling a flat screwdriver in behind the opposing pad, and twisting a bit, then pump the lever again while paying attention to how the pistons behave when they extend back out again - the goal being to not see the rotor move to either side when engaging the brake).
I'd advise against it for one reason alone: Stainless conducts heat mighty well. Those inserts are to help insulate those pistons and keep the fluid from boiling.
I get it, although I believe this is a 0 issue in the bikes, again considering the best brakes in the market have no insert and just hollow stainless pistons
Fresh review alert: we've tested the new HEL Advocate brakes, here are our thoughts: https://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/hydraulic-disc-brakes/hel-performance/advocate-71426#product-reviews-721041.
TLDR: go read the review, don't be lazy! 😃
Sure thing, but those pistons were also designed to be run that way and likely have thicker walls. Which also begets the q of would those Hope pistons' sidewalls buckle under braking load?
Newer centerlines (A2 variants) are 2mm, they refer to them as rounded edges uci compliant etc. I'm not sure when the switchover happened but I've noticed them turning up more frequently on bikes.
You certain of that? I just bought a set of rounded edge centerlines for a bike I was selling (to take new hs2's off) and they were still 1.8mm.
The 160 rounded might not be, but I've seen 180 and 200 versions both in 2mm
images might not have come through big enough to read, both are 1.7 minimum thickness and the 200 has that sticker stating its 2mm thick.
I made a new thread specific to shimano maven combo: Shimano Maven - S-tier braking (Shaven) - The Hub - Mountain Biking Forums / Message Boards - Vital MTB
Just switched from Shimano XTs (8120) to Formula Cura 4, mostly for the silver color matching 😆
However I feel like the brakes are not as powerful as the Shimanos. I've bled them 2 times, all according to the manual and also looked up a few other methods on youtube. Running HS2 200mm rotors front and back and stock metallic pads.
Anyone in here with any good tips regarding the Cura 4? Or are they just lackluster in power.
"Average Joe" advise: Coming from SRAM G2 brakes to Cura 4 was a great update for my Canyon spectral years ago. After reading reviews/advises from other riders, I did change rotors and pads for Galfer in 2025: Wave rotors and red pads. They defintely feel better (to me). Cant give you any comparison with Shimano XT, sorry.
Just to put a word in on direct comparison, I had a bike with Xt8120 and another with Cura4, both with MTX red pads. I found the cura 4 easily more power on tap. So to me something seems weird here. I never used formula pads, but the enduro mag test made it seem a pad upgrade had a major impact on power, that maybe is the case here? The bleed shouldn’t matter unless it feels spongy.
I would try doing a full reset bedding process using acetone on the rotor and a bit of sandpaper on both the rotor and pads. Maybe there’s a bit of leftover issues with your old brakes and the bedding process went wrong. If that doesn’t work then consider a different set of aftermarket pads.
Galfer wave rotors and purple pads completely transformed my Guides. Highly recommend!!
Thanks, I'm thinking in the same direction that it might be the stock pads that aren't up to standards.
Lever feel is pretty good, although they feel less on/off like Shimano, more in the line of old Sram in terms of feel.
I have a set of galfer pads on hand that I might try instead.
Lever feel sounds right. The end of the bite point has a bit of flex at the end and isn't as firm as a shimano or a Hayes. But it should have plenty of power on tap. I can't quite say what is stronger between Cura4 and the Hayes A4, its just how the lever delivers that power that is different.
FWIW, I added the FRS/RCS lever aftermarket, and liked the change in feel you can get. It allows a bite earlier or later in the lever throw, almost allowing you to be closer between a Shimano and Sram feel. But if you like to run your lever close to the bar don't get them as stock you can run them closer than with the lever upgrade.
Are you sure those are stock sinter pads („brass-y“ golden backplate)? I’m running them exclusively (mostly cura2 tho) with great results on nearly every rotor I’ve tried.
The old organic formula compound (black backing) is weak in comparison.
Post a reply to: Nerding out on Brakes shall we? Not another tech deraliment