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I can take some photos today. I left the fork at 200 and run the clamps as far down as I can. The axle to crown is about 20mm higher, but I run 25-30% sag so it feels very balanced when riding. Set up more for chunky DH riding. Telum shock, 155 cranks. I’m putting a sidekick wheel on today to test, I’d like to reduce some pedal feedback.
Sick! Nice add ons. Dream machine
Great to hear of people going straight to the 170 link on these bikes!! I was dreaming of a 190 boxxer on one
Wouldn't those dh mods bring the bike close to 30 kg? I'd take a lighter platform for that.
Yeah the bike is about 60lb. I thought it was 55lb, I wish it was lighter but not a big deal. It rides much lighter than it feels on paper. My next ebike I hope will be under 50lb as I keep my eye on something with DJI motor.
What’s up Joe!
My relay is 45lb. With spring shock, spring ohlins fork, 223 rotors and DH tires and pedals. Not enough power for most e bike guys, but perfect amount for me.
The big power stuff is more like riding a slow moto bike to me. It just looses some of the fun of a MT bike at that point. I have a moto bike for that
Wow that is sick. I tried a similar mod to keep tension on the lower idler but mine kept breaking. What brand is that? I wish they had an ISCG option on I bent a chain ring second ride and had to bash it straight trail side. I went up to a 36t to get a bet more chainstay clearance. Do you think the VHS tape helped quiet it down vs stock?
F does that ever look good. Mean looker!!
Okay:
My son is hellbent on getting an e-bike as his trail bike (he races DH and wants to be able to maximize the descents when he's riding trail) when he goes off to college. He's, in the past, had support from brands (GT first and then YT... yes... he's cursed), so durability hasn't been the hugest issue, as he's been taken care of. When he's a poor college student without brand support (fingers crossed something comes along), longevity and upkeep is a concern. Also, with the money he's wanting to spend, he's likely going to be looking at a used e-bike (which scares the hell out of me).
So: what should he stay away from? He's looking at full power bikes. Which brands offer the best support for their bikes and power systems? Are there any specific brands that will offer support beyond original owner, if he goes used? He's doing his own research as well, since he's purchasing the bike, but I would like to be able to offer some additional guidance from the good folks at Vital. Thanks in advance for any assistance!
Look at something with transferable warranty then.
I'd steer towards something with a Bosch motor, this is coming from someone who has only owned shimano motors too. In saying that, I would have done nearly 20,000km's on these shimano bikes and only had 1 "failure" which wasn't really a failure, rather the motor got a touch noisy.
I dont know of any that offer warranty to the second owner so cant be much help there but would definitely recommend checking what brands the local bike shops carry. Easier for any service issues if a good local shop is used to working on them
Specialized do transferable warranty to the second owner I'm pretty certain
Stay far away from fazua, their future is somewhat suspect, and failures are fairly common with them.
Too early to tell with avinox.
Shimano is doa.
Brose is pretty solid from a larger company like specialized, if you have warranty. Their bikes are pretty "meh" though.
I'd be looking for a used crestline 180 with the bosch gen 5 if I were you.
I'd buy something new. There's decent deals tgat will be cheaper than a lot of people sell used for. If youre in the states i'd look at the polygon emtb w the bosch motor if possible. I think its "bikes direct " that sell them in the states. They get great reviews and hard to beat the price
Been a specialized ebike fan for 6 years. Gen1 kenevo, then a gen2 kenevo for the past 5 years supplemented by a kenevo sl.
Just put a deposit down on an avinox powered velduro rogue frameset. Will be able to swap all my parts over bar needing to buy a trunnion shock and smaller dropper.
Ticks all the boxes, especially being able to to run a cable derailleur. I recon i can get away with a fixed battery and fast charge.
Its not the power so much that appeals, more the small form factor and integration.
Im pretty put off buy the latest specialized bikes, especially with the flap 🤢, and bikes using the bosch 800wh battery. Downtubes like torpedoes.
heads up with the shock, not all gonna fit:
https://www.emtbforums.com/threads/velduro-rogue-170-165-mullet-enduro-…
We had the chance to do some battery testing with Specialized’s Turbo Levo 4 to get some stats on range. I did a test where I did same loop in each mode to see how time/battery consumption/power compared, plus a battery draining ride with a range extender. It was more for exercise, but it was cool (and pretty tiring haha) to see how different modes ate battery, and how far you actually can go on a full-size eeb. I’d be curious to know what kind of range other riders are getting from their bikes. Feel free to list out your bike/battery size/motor system/rider weight/bike weight, and the distance/feet climbed/ride time you’re able to achieve.
side tangent / clarification: did you notice anything weird or good or bad in auto mode? outside of the outright stats where it used as much battery as turbo but wasnt nearly as fast or efficient.
one thing i've noticed stealing my partners ebike is I hate when the ebike is trying to 'predict' my rider input, and is just getting it a bit wrong. kinda like a really terrible CVT... did auto give you those sensations? or was it basically just switching to turbo on any pitch and then back to trail on any flatter part, without getting it wrong at random times?
i guess if it still hits turbo at all the 'right' times... 1% saved is 1% saved (like you mentioned)
The auto mode on the levo is pretty good and fairly natural feeling to me. I usually use auto- setting for longer rides and try to use eco when I can. For me the key is to try not to go into a higher assist mode because you'll feel so slow afterwards that you cant go back down. The hangover is real... But some sections of steep trail its better to bump up and make the climb then to push the bike so its a give and take.
TLDR - Auto mode is legit and feels pretty natural. Its nice that you can tune +/- to give it more or less juice.
I'd also like to try these newer bikes and feel what their speed limit is like. Dunno if any of yall have ridden the Shimano Steps EP6 like on a 'flat' surface, and hit the speed limit. It feels oddly uncomfortable and instead of being able to meter the motor smoother (shouldn't be too hard cuz I doubt I'm pedaling a 55 pound bike with knobby tires that speed on my own)... It has this jerky start stop sensation that actually feels like its bad for my knees lol
I usually end up fiddling around with the power modes on it not because I want more or less power, outright, but because I'm trying to avoid odd side effects of how the motor kicks in and out. I've already tried other motors that are much better, like the Fazua, but there is also some bias in that it was much smaller or less powerful, so it would likely be a smaller window of error anyway. I wan to try that DJI Avinox to see how it meters all that power. That or the Turbo Levo 4.
Auto Mode felt really natural, which I know is cliche. But there wasn't any lag or surges in power. The biggest difference between Auto and Turbo was my cadence. The power from the motor felt similar, but from looking at the data from both rides, I was pedaling harder (Average watts - Turbo, 161W | Auto, 166W) and faster (average cadence - Turbo, 67 | Auto, 73) to receive assistance I wanted. So it did feel much more rider dependent than Turbo which had a less filtered power delivery.
Rider: 165 lbs without gear. Bike: Santa Cruz Vala (Bosch CX 5, 600wh battery, ~47 lbs)
15.7 miles / 4,970' vert, 1:27 moving time, 8% charge left (100nM torque, 750w power, EMTB+ mode)
23.8 miles / 7,530' vert, 2:16 moving time, 7% charge left (same power settings, EMTB+, with 250wh PowerMore range extender)
173lb rider weight - Orbea Rise LT (w/ DH tires) - 630Wh battery
RS+ profile (85Nm) - Mode - full power 90% trail 10%
19.6 miles - 4,669 elevation gain
91% battery consumed
Thank you Jason for giving us these real world experiences of e-bikes. It helps us to understand how they are changing over the years. Mine is a 2019 Giant Trance E+1. As a big boy I struggle to get 30km mountain biking. Have done 55km on easy trails. 500 WH and Yamaha pwx2 motor.
Yeah, but wasn't the 25 miles of DH a little less fun?😂
Probably not. Bikes under 40lbs take more energy out of me on the downhills.
Most reviews i see measure vert/distance in boost/turbo. I'd be curious to know that. Should be no problem to do back to back 1100w days to test that.......
My old decoy still has the e8000 with a 540w battery. Its boost all ths time unless im crawling home conserving battery in eco or using trail mode if it snows
Sounds fun! I’m still a few years away from a new ebike but a requirement for my next bike will be 1000+wh capability.
Meta power TR with 625wh Bosch and range extender. Weigh 190lbs suited up with water and tools and stuff. Have done 37 miles and 7500’vert with a little battery left, and there was a bunch of turbo used. If I stayed conservative and in tour mode could probably eke out 45 miles and 8500-9000 vert, but half the fun of e bikes is not being conservative.
Not a full power ebike, but I did a ride two years ago on a rental Fuel EXe (Gen1) at Glentress. Pretty sure it was a stock 9.7 (42 pounds ish) with the TQ 360Wh battery and TQ HPR5- motor, rider weight ~195 pounds with gear. I had not been on tech trails in a while so I kept to the public loops and did the Black and Red loop, took a break, then Blue loop plus a bit extra. This was just after they re-opened for 'super worlds' in 2023.
I rode 42km and ~1400m elevation and got down to (I believe) 1 bar of battery (can't remember how many bars there were total). Charged that over lunch for around 30 minutes and then did another 20km and 350m elevation at which point the battery fully died (just before the peak of the final climb). Ride total was 64km, 1770m elevation, 4h30m moving time (40 miles, 5800 feet). Edit: the battery did die on me up my final climb, but once it did I turned around to end my day pretty quickly. I would say the assist lasted until ~62km and >1700m elevation.
I almost exclusively used the eco (lowest) setting going uphill as it was enough to keep me in zone 2 (out of five) heart rate for the climb most of the time. I did try the other modes but I wasn't in a rush to end the ride as I had planned to be out for most of the day and I figured I would maximize ride distance with eco mode (but I don't know how correct I was). I left it on eco for most of the ride but started turning off the motor on descents around halfway through the ride as I didn't like the feel of the motor kicking in when pedalling or ratcheting cranks downhill (I'm sure you could get used to that over time).
That was my first (and only, so far) e-mtb ride. I own a Fuel EX (from the previous gen) so I was used to the general feel of the bike from the off. There was also an option to try out a full power Specialized, but since I had not been on an MTB in a while I didn't want to struggle with the extra weight.
lol exactly this on the 540wh Decoy. Actually just took it out last night to intentionally kill the battery on boost. Did 18 miles and 3000 feet before dying, including a bit of flat road ride to the trail. Rode 7 miles home on a dead battery.
I've done the same ride on trail mode only before but I forget if I recorded it. So now I need to go back and do that. I'm just never sure how to trust the 'test numbers'. Depending on what the vert is. Mellow fire road, steep fire road, up and down technical traversal, etc. Only thing I know is I would be torn to pieces by a 3k feet ride on the normal bike, with like ~20+ miles of distance. Even a controlled loop like at a pedal park doing 3k to do laps would be brutal. I think I've gotten close to it at skypark with a normal bike. Ya it killed me.
Depends on the bike.
My '25 mondraker crafty xr is just as capable on descents as my dreadnought v2 (avalanche zeb coil/ext storia coil).
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