Tire chat (nerds only)

I think that's a pretty popular take. I wonder if there's two schools of thought though. I tend to put a faster rolling tire on the rear with the softest tread and just ride that everywhere. Anyone else?

Yes, I should clarify that I’m running a MaxxGrip Assegai up front to pair with that fast rolling/longer wearing MaxxTerra DHR2. Front tires last 3 to 4 times longer for me than rear tires, and rolling resistance is so much more noticeable in a rear tire that I’m literally sitting on top of, so there’s no reason for me to not run the grippiest version upfront.

I did try going softer. First run it grazed the side of a rock, I’m assuming it grabbed on and the rear tire exploded, had to walk back up to take the lift down and buy a tire. Sounded like a gun going off. Back then I was a 30psi front and rear guy so this was maybe 27 or 28 in the rear? 

Maxxgrip up front all the way.  Not even a decision.

I'm genuinely curious about the fast-rolling-tread, softest-rubber tire.  I'm assuming at least DD-level casing for the rear and Maxxis?  

Feels like a trivia question.  Dissector?  I've always heard those last about 3 runs in Maxxgrip on the rear.  

To reiterate, really not meaning to call you out.  Sincerely interested in what you're running.  Personally, I'd love to see an updated Aggressor in DD and merely maxxterra.  I tried a Contin Xynotal, but I've concluded I really like a bit of channel, even in the rear, so I can really lean the bike and aggressively get on side knobs.  Xynotal just didn't bite for me on anything but hardpack.

Didn't mean to make it a trivia question, but I felt like I've been drumming on about tacky chans in this thread enough as is - didn't want to be that guy.

But yeah, tacky chan supersoft in the gravity casing has been my go-to rear for a while now. I liked the Xynotal but I wanted more pronounced cornering knobs. Had the chance to ride a dhf in the rear on a rental bike a few months ago and I enjoyed it but the braking wasn't very good. I really wanted to like the dissector but it didn't roll as fast as I expected, the cornering knobs where way too soft for me, and the tire didn't last long for me either.

My second favorite rear at the moment is actually a Kryptotal FR on the rear - especially when the center knobs wear down. 

Y'all!

(Sorry for the big pile of words. I like to make sure people have all the info they need. TL;DR at the bottom)

I don't know enough about tires. I've only ridden Dissectors (Maxxterra Exo+) front/rear and DHF/Aggressor (Maxxterra/DC Exo). All of those tires are shot at this point so I need to replace them. I'd love to see what you all have to say about options in my scenario:

Most of my riding is at my local trails which are XC-style narrow singletrack trails. The surfaces are mostly hardpack and kitty litter/moondust-over-hardpack. Almost all of my riding is on a 120mm/140mm trailbike. I like to try to ride those trails as fast as my fitness will push and I always look for the most enduro-y sorts of lines anywhere I can. Sometimes that's a literal rocky wildlife path down a hill, sometimes that's the sketchy stuff scratched into the landscape, sometimes it's something XC that gets a little wild as folks hit it faster. Sometimes it's urban riding with stair gaps.

I'm taking my 120mm/140mm trailbike to Spirit Mountain in Duluth, MN (a bike park, it seems) for some trails/skills park riding and some coaching. I don't anticipate any sort of real intense stuff. I'll be on vacation with the wife and taking a single day for the park so I don't intend to throw myself off a mountain or get too wild. I've never ridden anything like a bike park before so I don't know what to expect and I don't anticipate I'll get to do anything like that again until next year so I'd like to not throw the day away in the first hour with a damaged tire.

I'd love to get something that's going to be useful and not overkill for my local trails but I think my current Exo DHF/Aggressor is a little too light-duty for the day of whatever might happen at Spirit Mountain. I've been thinking maybe an Exo+ DHR II/Forekaster would be a good choice. I have no loyalty to Maxxis, though, so I thought maybe Kryptotal/Magnotal or Krypo/Xyno in Enduro casing? I don't know anything about Schwalbe. Hans Dampf? Nobby Nic? Super Trail casing?

Any thoughts you folks could lend would be great! I'd love to keep my tires fast but with a bit of bite still (the DHF feels like more than I need but not much more) since XC with hardpack and loose over hardpack is literally 99% of my riding.

Feel free to tell me any/all of my thoughts are wrong and I should go with [this] and [this]. I don't know much of anything about tires so I'm 100% open to any suggestions.

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TL;DR: my DHF/Aggressor in Exo is wore out. I'd like to be fast-rolling for the loose-over-hardpack and hardpack local XC-style trails that get 99% of my riding but I'm going to a bike park and trying to ride other places more often so I think going a little more capable in the sidewall department is a good idea. I'm open to most brands but find myself most interested in Maxxis, Continental, and Schwalbe. Any suggestions?

Dissector EXO front with a Rekon EXO+ rear if you want to be on the faster trail side of things but with a bit extra durability in the rear.

DHF EXO front with a DHR2 EXO rear for a solid trail setup that is fine for first timer bike park usage.

Assegai EXO+ front with a DHR2 DoubleDown rear for that heavy hitting setup that you can still pedal around. 
 

I prefer MaxxGrip front with MaxxTerra rear for pedaling but bike park capable. 

 

I tend to run a faster rolling rear (and more often than not lighter) as well. Doesn't need to be the grippiest fast rolling compound either as my local is loose sand/gravel over hardpack with granite boulders/rocks.

I learned to like the Tioga Edge 22 a lot. What a fun front tire, fast rolling, grippy in corners and not too heavy.

I did a MaxxGrip Dissector in the rear over a winter here in coastal BC and thought it worked well. The softer rubber had grip on rocks and roots, but the faster tread pattern made it less painful to pedal. Wear wasn’t terrible - it got me to the spring. I could see making short work of the tire in dry summer conditions, though. Also, our dirt isn’t really the kind that sticks and clogs tires, so it might not work so well in other wet places.

Increasing my ride times and frequency to train up for a long race has really made me appreciate faster-rolling tires more. Plus, the skill increase from the amount of riding and dialing in line choice kind of negates (with certain exceptions) any downsides to not having the most hardcore, sticky rubber you can find.

What’s been your experiences with the newest Michelin tires? I feel that the grip is quite good, rolling a little slow and the sides seem to crack.

I’m not sure if I will buy new set anymore.

Schwalbe Eddy Current or Maxxis Assegai have better side knobs than a Magic Mary and it isn't even close.

Eddy current is probably the worst tyre i've tried, did not like it one bit. might be, where i wash out with an Assegai maxx grip i don't with a Trail Pro ultrasoft Mary, that's all i need to know. Calling a Mary Dated and weak it's just stupid i stand by my statement. the latest Test by Enduro MTB Proves with actual data that Schwalbe chasings are anything but weak, therefore statement based on nothing.

I have been running a Eddie Current Fr (trail/ultra soft) for a couple of months now, replacing Kryptotal Fr (enduro/soft). My go to tire has been Magic Mary (trail/ultra soft) for a while but so far in the loose over hardpack that is the summer riding here, I have been really liking it. The cornering grip feels a bit less then the Mary but the understeer is more recoverable and not as abrupt of a snap when it gains traction back. Definitely better feeling then a Maxxgrip DHF. I haven't tried any Super Soft Contis so I cannot comment on those. 

I had something similar that I noticed on a Schwalbe tire during install. I contacted them and they said its only cosmetic and doesn't affect performance. They also sent me a 50% discount code for anything on their website. Might be worth a try to warranty the tire.

The amount of moaning over Conti DH weight is silly.  For a DH casing, they're quite light, a mullet set of Kryptotals in DH weighs about the same as a DD set of Assegai / DHR.  The Conti Enduro casings are in reality only ~60g lighter each (actual Enduro weights that I've bought run heavy, DHs mostly weigh in a little lighter than mfg spec), which puts them a bit over EXO+ weights.  IMHO, the real reason to go from Conti DH down to Enduro is how they feel.  I know it contradicts what some of the heavier riders running higher pressures say, but to me their DH casings feel quite stiff and transmit a lot of feedback to the hands, especially on the front of the bike.  So on my 3 bikes, I'm using up my remaining DH front tires, and will just run Enduro up front while keeping DH rear because the weight penalty for extra stiffness and protection there is small.  

I did back to back comparison between Enduro Super Soft and Downhill Super Soft Kryptotal Fr and I agree. The Enduro casing is more compliant and less harsh in front. Now that we have the lighter casing super soft option, it makes sense to run it in the front. As for weights you can see what I measured below and my versions had a bit more of a difference. I pedaled Argo DH SS and Krypto DH SS for a full year doing big 1000+M vert days without any complaining. IMO even their heaviest tire rolls better than a DHR2 DD Maxterra.

Kryptotal Re Enduro Soft: 1193g
Kryptotal Fr Endro Super Soft: 1202g
Kryptotal Fr DH Super Soft: 1331g
Argotal DH Super Soft: 1320g

I agree that the conti DH casing feels stiffer than Maxxis DH. I noticed a significant increase in feedback to my hands that I didn’t love going from an Assguy to an Argotal(both DH casing and softest rubber) on the front of my ebike. The Argotal grips far better on my local trails, but I wouldn’t describe it as comfortable. Going forward, I think I’ll only run contis as rears, and MaxxGrip DH or Schwalbe Radial up front. 

Crazy how different riders have such different perspectives. Pushing into a berm the squirm is crazy if I’m running the pressure I use for Maxxis. DH casing for both, same wheel, pressure gauge, bike, trail etc. 

I personally really like the feel of the Conti DH casing, but agree that even though it’s stiffer to me, it requires more pressure than Maxxis or Specialized. I pretty much have to run 28/23 r/f to get them to feel good in berms. I can’t get Schwalbe casings to work for me, I was pushing SDH Tacky Chans to over 32psi in the rear to not get rim pings. It felt the best at 26-27psi but were rim killers at those pressures. 

how heavy are you? a Schwalbe super dh and says at 27psi it's rim killer? either the trails you ride are hucks to pointy rocks only or you're 300lbs

Is it just me or are the radial tyres way better than reviews are letting on? I went from a Hutchinson Griffus to a Magic Mary Radial and I thought I’d upgraded my forks at first, I’m a convert and my friend who races enduro is a convert too. I don’t think any other tyre on the market comes close, except for maybe the new High Roller III, and that still isn’t very close.

The magic is in the chasing, literally,

I agree with that, I’m sticking to them, the 2 rides I’ve done on different tires it was a slip and slide both up and down on the same tracks where I just go with 0 issues

That being said these do slide as well but way less than anything else I’ve tried

I've got a tacky chan on the rear as I don't particularly feel the need for a 3 block middle tread on a rear tyre, I tried a new location that was a bit more hard-pack and not as dusty as my local, and the Tacky was a whole lot more slip happy than the Mary, even running it at lower pressure didn't give it the same composure as the Mary

Mary in the rear is awesome for grip but slow rolling, i never go for full grip in the rear personally, i've used plenty of times a mary in the back for bikepark or sketchy stuff but it's a pain on the ups

203 on the scales this morning, 210 with gear. I started Saturday with 27/23 in my Spec DH casing tires and was getting loud pings on rocks charging through rock gardens, upped to 29/24 and that cleared up the issue for the rest of the weekend. 

This is one of the trails that is partly to blame for my rim death. The Chute From Hell - EWS Northstar Stage 4 Practice RAW 

Appreciate all the replies, we're doing our annual month in Whistler shred (tires and trails), and finally taking a break and catching up on this discussion. Left off at son burping the Kryptotal, more sealant and air resolved that, and me thinking I didn't need inserts. Fast foward a few days and the boy put an inch long gash in the sidewall of his Kryptotal. Me, decided to stuff a tube in the fanny pack and literally next run 3 jumps into zone 2 on A-line put a hole in my DHR right above the bead and small dent in the rim. Of course I didn't bother to check my tire pressure before riding that day either.

Son's replacement tire once again was choice of Conti or Maxxgrip DHR. He had a week on the Kryptotal and wear was minimal so went with SS DH again and I did the same based on the claim of better grip than Maxxterra and better wear. We are starting week 3 now, week 2 on the tire, and this morning my son complains about the wear on the Conti. I have to tell him he's crazy, there is minimal wear. This is the same kid that destroyed the tread on a maxxgrip rear in 3 days last year, the only difference is 27.5 last year and 29 this year. He weighs more, rides a lot of hours, faster, a lot of slab time. Also Hayes this year and Saints before. 

As for me, running an insert now but also splitting my time with my 27.5 bike, it's got the insert and Conti SS, and a 29 front and rear bike. I'm new to 29 so besides having to wrap my head around all things 29 I have some interesting tire things going on as well. Nice to be insert free except for running more pressure than I prefer to save my rims. Spent a couple days with a maxxterra Assegai front, too sketchy for me, what a relief to get on brand new maxxgrip version. Rear is a test pilot DHRII 2.5 maxxgrip. Besides it being a pre-production 2.5 I'm speculating that it's either not truly a maxxgrip or it's an attempt at a longer wearing maxxgrip. One thing is no signs of wear, the other is lack of grip. Mullet conversion is next...

Pic of bikes involved.

Yes, I agree that we're hearing a lot of different perspectives on the same tire. If I can expand on what I said earlier, I think it's actually a combination of what others have said.

As a rear tire, I get a lot of squirm and fold from the Conti DH casing is I don't run extra pressure, about 3-5 psi more than I would on a Maxxis DH casing. But as a front tire, it feels wooden and transmits a lot more trail feedback compared to a Maxxis. It still managed to grip fine, I never had sketchy moments, but as a front tire it ended up feeling like someone had cranked up my compression a couple clicks on my fork.

I suspect the wooden feeling I'm getting from the front tire has less to do with the casing (which I think is relatively soft) and more to do with the compound Conti is using on their SS tires. We've heard in this forum that Conti is using harder rubber over the top of softer rubber (the opposite of what most multi-compound tires use), and I think that's probably why the rear SS tire seems to last forever but the front SS tire seems to feel wooden and harsh. I also know the DH team riders are getting special ultra soft compound tires from Conti for racing, which serves as perfect confirmation bias for my theory.

Some quick hits on the Vittoria tires I've played around with over the past couple seasons - all XC / Trail stuff I've ridden on my Honzo & Tallboy. All tires are the graphene / 4C compounds that go with the XC (120 tpi) or Trail (60 tpi) casings. I'm not sure if there's a difference between the compounds on each tire though my assumption is that the XC tires get a harder compound than the trail tires. I've got essentially no experience in actual muddy conditions as our trails aren't able to be ridden in the wet. 

Mezcal XC (2.6" 120 tpi) - I think this is a fantastic tire as long as you set expectations appropriately. FWIW I only used this as a rear tire on my hardtail. Rolls super well, brakes and corners fine for an XC tire. A good comp would be an Ikon but I think this has better traction in corners. I spent a week in Italy flipping back and forth between hating how much I was sliding around on loose and moderately steep trails and being thankful for the tire on the steep climbs.

Barzo XC (2.6" 120 tpi) - used as front tire on my Honzo. Rolls fine and has decent cornering grip for an XC tire. Braking traction is not good, and I don't see a reason to run this tire except maybe in soft mud XC riding, though I never actually used it for that. It's a pretty similar tire to the old Forekaster though I don't think that's a compliment. 

Both the 120tpi tires required 30psi to not roll the casing constantly, which I hate. I'm sure the thin casing reduces rolling resistance, so that may be a tradeoff that's worth it for you. With that said, both tires held up and I never got a flat while running them (30 psi certainly helps here though). I was able to run my normal 24-25 psi in the 60 tpi tires without issue.

Syerra Trail (2.4" 60 tpi) - Kind of a niche tire, just a touch more traction and rolling resistance than a true XC tire. I think this makes sense as a front tire, less so in the rear when you could run an actual XC tire if you don't care about traction or a nobbier tire with minimal sacrifice in rolling resistance. This may sound dumb, but the only thing I really disliked about this tire was that it only came in black (when all the other tires have grey sidewalls) and there's a giant red hot patch that I sharpied over.

Agarro Trail (2.35 60 tpi) - Basically a grey colored Rekon, which is a tire I really like. You can just copy / paste Rekon reviews here.

Martello Trail (2.4" 60 tpi) - I don't have a ton of time on this tire yet on the front of my Tallboy, but it's certainly a viably option. It's a little too much tire for most my local trails (which are not steep) but would be at home somewhere with a bit more grade as a front tire for a short travel bike like my Tallboy or as a rear tire on a 140-150mm travel bike. You won't confuse it with real DH treads like the Kryptotal or Assegai, particularly in braking traction, though it's still adequate. Cornering traction breaks away somewhat predictably - it's not like you're locked then a moment later the front wheel is gone - again it won't be confused with a DH tread. I haven't ridden this in mud, but with how many closely spaced nobs there are there's no way this tire can clear mud well. For a Maxxis comparison, I think it slots in around the Dissector in terms of traction, thought it behaves a bit differently due to the transition nobs. I still haven't ridden the new Forekaster though I'd be curious to see how the traction & rolling resistance compares.