MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

Related:
chriskief
Posts
720
Joined
4/15/2017
Location
New York, NY US
7/3/2025 12:36pm
Jotegr wrote:
How dare you speak ill of Santa Cruz! Let the downvotes commence! In seriousness though the entry level scott is destined to be many a European bike...

How dare you speak ill of Santa Cruz! Let the downvotes commence!

 

In seriousness though the entry level scott is destined to be many a European bike park's "premium" rental option. 

To be specific, the clapped out remains of the entry level Scott with a quick hose down at the end of each day will be the "premium" rental option.

10
DylanJM
Posts
34
Joined
7/2/2024
Location
Frederiksberg DK
7/3/2025 1:57pm
TEAMROBOT wrote:
These builds always perplex me. "Yeah, I definitely need a carbon frame on my DH bike... but the base model Boxxer and Vivid, and the MT520...

These builds always perplex me. "Yeah, I definitely need a carbon frame on my DH bike... but the base model Boxxer and Vivid, and the MT520 brakes should be fine, right?"

See that alot on road bikes and Santa Cruz... Carbon frames and cheap build kits.. Because somehow the Carbon frame will cover up the performance of...

See that alot on road bikes and Santa Cruz... Carbon frames and cheap build kits.. Because somehow the Carbon frame will cover up the performance of the lower tier parts...

I mean, would you prefer manufactures only offered premium builds and left nothing for entry level consumer? Manufactures understandably don't want to offer two material options for all the frames they produce. RS Select/Fox Performance level suspension and GX/SLX is fine for a massive amount of the market and people can upgrade the base level kit as they go along. 

5
Brian_Peterson
Posts
1131
Joined
4/26/2011
Location
Canyon Country, CA US
7/3/2025 2:43pm
DylanJM wrote:
I mean, would you prefer manufactures only offered premium builds and left nothing for entry level consumer? Manufactures understandably don't want to offer two material options...

I mean, would you prefer manufactures only offered premium builds and left nothing for entry level consumer? Manufactures understandably don't want to offer two material options for all the frames they produce. RS Select/Fox Performance level suspension and GX/SLX is fine for a massive amount of the market and people can upgrade the base level kit as they go along. 

Your assessment of GX/SLX being more than adequate is spot on.. My primary bike uses GX..I will admit to being a bit of a suspension snob, but the Select or Performance level isn't terrible. 

I'm talking about SX or NX parts on carbon frames.. I would throw Deore in that mix,  but at least that actually works pretty well.  I personally feel that if you are on a budget that you are better off with an aluminum frame and a nice built kit than a  carbon frame with lower spec parts.. I think the nicer parts will be noticed more on the trail than the carbon frame..

12
seanfisseli
Posts
559
Joined
4/16/2024
Location
Santa Cruz, CA US
7/3/2025 3:18pm
DylanJM wrote:
I mean, would you prefer manufactures only offered premium builds and left nothing for entry level consumer? Manufactures understandably don't want to offer two material options...

I mean, would you prefer manufactures only offered premium builds and left nothing for entry level consumer? Manufactures understandably don't want to offer two material options for all the frames they produce. RS Select/Fox Performance level suspension and GX/SLX is fine for a massive amount of the market and people can upgrade the base level kit as they go along. 

Your assessment of GX/SLX being more than adequate is spot on.. My primary bike uses GX..I will admit to being a bit of a suspension snob...

Your assessment of GX/SLX being more than adequate is spot on.. My primary bike uses GX..I will admit to being a bit of a suspension snob, but the Select or Performance level isn't terrible. 

I'm talking about SX or NX parts on carbon frames.. I would throw Deore in that mix,  but at least that actually works pretty well.  I personally feel that if you are on a budget that you are better off with an aluminum frame and a nice built kit than a  carbon frame with lower spec parts.. I think the nicer parts will be noticed more on the trail than the carbon frame..

I dunno, 2.5 lbs between Stumpjumper Carbon an alloy is pretty damn noticeable. If I’m the average stumpy buyer I’d much rather have nx on a carbon frame than gx on a alloy frame. Especially since derailleurs wear out/break and I can just get a GX at that point. 

6
5
Brian_Peterson
Posts
1131
Joined
4/26/2011
Location
Canyon Country, CA US
7/3/2025 4:49pm
I dunno, 2.5 lbs between Stumpjumper Carbon an alloy is pretty damn noticeable. If I’m the average stumpy buyer I’d much rather have nx on a...

I dunno, 2.5 lbs between Stumpjumper Carbon an alloy is pretty damn noticeable. If I’m the average stumpy buyer I’d much rather have nx on a carbon frame than gx on a alloy frame. Especially since derailleurs wear out/break and I can just get a GX at that point. 

I don't think I've seen that much difference in weight if the only difference is just the frame material..   

1
1
Nobble
Posts
225
Joined
9/24/2010
Location
Lakewood, CO US
7/3/2025 4:54pm
I dunno, 2.5 lbs between Stumpjumper Carbon an alloy is pretty damn noticeable. If I’m the average stumpy buyer I’d much rather have nx on a...

I dunno, 2.5 lbs between Stumpjumper Carbon an alloy is pretty damn noticeable. If I’m the average stumpy buyer I’d much rather have nx on a carbon frame than gx on a alloy frame. Especially since derailleurs wear out/break and I can just get a GX at that point. 

I don't think I've seen that much difference in weight if the only difference is just the frame material..   

1.5-2.5lbs-ish is pretty typical for aluminum vs carbon.

An aluminum Sentinel frame is 9.9lb (medium) and the carbon one is 7.41lb (medium).

8
lloyd506
Posts
249
Joined
7/10/2016
Location
CA
7/3/2025 5:28pm
I dunno, 2.5 lbs between Stumpjumper Carbon an alloy is pretty damn noticeable. If I’m the average stumpy buyer I’d much rather have nx on a...

I dunno, 2.5 lbs between Stumpjumper Carbon an alloy is pretty damn noticeable. If I’m the average stumpy buyer I’d much rather have nx on a carbon frame than gx on a alloy frame. Especially since derailleurs wear out/break and I can just get a GX at that point. 

I don't think I've seen that much difference in weight if the only difference is just the frame material..   

Can confirm alloy stumpy 15 is heavy. Bought alloy and built up, ext era fork, Storia coil, xo transmission, carbon rims with king hubs, dh casing tires comes in at 36 lbs in a S3. 

2
2
TEAMROBOT
Posts
1348
Joined
9/2/2009
Location
Los Angeles, CA US
7/3/2025 5:49pm

Hey y'all something going on in these Maven levers in the pits at La Thuille. Heard from Alan Muldoon at MBR that the Canyon DH team had these same gold cams in their Mavens at Leogang. Any theories? More leverage? Less leverage? More ramp? Less ramp?

24
jsray
Posts
216
Joined
5/20/2017
Location
Gilbert, AZ US
7/3/2025 5:52pm
I dunno, 2.5 lbs between Stumpjumper Carbon an alloy is pretty damn noticeable. If I’m the average stumpy buyer I’d much rather have nx on a...

I dunno, 2.5 lbs between Stumpjumper Carbon an alloy is pretty damn noticeable. If I’m the average stumpy buyer I’d much rather have nx on a carbon frame than gx on a alloy frame. Especially since derailleurs wear out/break and I can just get a GX at that point. 

I don't think I've seen that much difference in weight if the only difference is just the frame material..   

lloyd506 wrote:
Can confirm alloy stumpy 15 is heavy. Bought alloy and built up, ext era fork, Storia coil, xo transmission, carbon rims with king hubs, dh casing...

Can confirm alloy stumpy 15 is heavy. Bought alloy and built up, ext era fork, Storia coil, xo transmission, carbon rims with king hubs, dh casing tires comes in at 36 lbs in a S3. 

36lbs for a medium alloy frame with a coil shock, heavy hubs, and DH tires is actually really good.

27
seanfisseli
Posts
559
Joined
4/16/2024
Location
Santa Cruz, CA US
7/3/2025 5:54pm Edited Date/Time 7/3/2025 5:54pm
I dunno, 2.5 lbs between Stumpjumper Carbon an alloy is pretty damn noticeable. If I’m the average stumpy buyer I’d much rather have nx on a...

I dunno, 2.5 lbs between Stumpjumper Carbon an alloy is pretty damn noticeable. If I’m the average stumpy buyer I’d much rather have nx on a carbon frame than gx on a alloy frame. Especially since derailleurs wear out/break and I can just get a GX at that point. 

I don't think I've seen that much difference in weight if the only difference is just the frame material..   

I picked an especially heavy example Wink I know most aren’t that dramatic but I have the alloy stumpy Evo and man I wish I had the carbon for a little more efficiency on the big days in the sierras 🫃🏻

1
3
seanfisseli
Posts
559
Joined
4/16/2024
Location
Santa Cruz, CA US
7/3/2025 5:57pm
I dunno, 2.5 lbs between Stumpjumper Carbon an alloy is pretty damn noticeable. If I’m the average stumpy buyer I’d much rather have nx on a...

I dunno, 2.5 lbs between Stumpjumper Carbon an alloy is pretty damn noticeable. If I’m the average stumpy buyer I’d much rather have nx on a carbon frame than gx on a alloy frame. Especially since derailleurs wear out/break and I can just get a GX at that point. 

I don't think I've seen that much difference in weight if the only difference is just the frame material..   

lloyd506 wrote:
Can confirm alloy stumpy 15 is heavy. Bought alloy and built up, ext era fork, Storia coil, xo transmission, carbon rims with king hubs, dh casing...

Can confirm alloy stumpy 15 is heavy. Bought alloy and built up, ext era fork, Storia coil, xo transmission, carbon rims with king hubs, dh casing tires comes in at 36 lbs in a S3. 

Stumpy Evo Alloy with the same build would be 38 lbs. but yeah, the alloy 15 is a lot heavier than the carbon, too. 36 is actually kind of a nice weight but a lot of folks want that trail/all-mountain balance of 32-34lbs

1
2
seanfisseli
Posts
559
Joined
4/16/2024
Location
Santa Cruz, CA US
7/3/2025 5:59pm Edited Date/Time 7/4/2025 7:04am
TEAMROBOT wrote:
Hey y'all something going on in these Maven levers in the pits at La Thuille. Heard from Alan Muldoon at MBR that the Canyon DH...

Hey y'all something going on in these Maven levers in the pits at La Thuille. Heard from Alan Muldoon at MBR that the Canyon DH team had these same gold cams in their Mavens at Leogang. Any theories? More leverage? Less leverage? More ramp? Less ramp?

Kashima for less friction/lighter lever feel

13
2
Brian_Peterson
Posts
1131
Joined
4/26/2011
Location
Canyon Country, CA US
7/3/2025 6:01pm
TEAMROBOT wrote:
Hey y'all something going on in these Maven levers in the pits at La Thuille. Heard from Alan Muldoon at MBR that the Canyon DH...

Hey y'all something going on in these Maven levers in the pits at La Thuille. Heard from Alan Muldoon at MBR that the Canyon DH team had these same gold cams in their Mavens at Leogang. Any theories? More leverage? Less leverage? More ramp? Less ramp?

Another option for Dak to try?

1
7/3/2025 6:10pm
DServy wrote:
Oh god, the amount of Ibis Mojos with Xfusion suspension in the wild in 2013-2016 was wild. The amount of people with carbon bikes and non...

Oh god, the amount of Ibis Mojos with Xfusion suspension in the wild in 2013-2016 was wild. The amount of people with carbon bikes and non functional forks I saw was a sight to behold. 

It's the "we don't do a frame only option so here's the bare minimum" build imo

Yeah I'm pretty sure thats it - I think it's part of those psychological tactics companies play to drive sales, where if they introduce the cheapest possible build they can do (especially if it "looks" cheap....) then its easier to upsell people in to the next model up, where they probably have more profit and definitely carry more stock (if you have ever tried to order an entry level model from a high end brand, you'll know this). But if the base model is the absolute most someone can already afford then they can still satisfy that customer. So they sell more overall, even if the entry level bike doesn't seem like great value - I don't believe they really intend to sell a bunch of those anyway

9
Carraig042
Posts
69
Joined
3/4/2013
Location
Jonesborough, TN US
7/3/2025 6:15pm
TEAMROBOT wrote:
Hey y'all something going on in these Maven levers in the pits at La Thuille. Heard from Alan Muldoon at MBR that the Canyon DH...

Hey y'all something going on in these Maven levers in the pits at La Thuille. Heard from Alan Muldoon at MBR that the Canyon DH team had these same gold cams in their Mavens at Leogang. Any theories? More leverage? Less leverage? More ramp? Less ramp?

More like the Maven Base maybe?

4
7/3/2025 7:05pm
It still seems silly to me to put a floating brake mount on a Horst link bike. 

The Cube floating brake arm is is a beast.

It still seems silly to me to put a floating brake mount on a Horst link bike. 

I don’t think it’s silly if a rider wants a different character than the frame was designed with.


Neko made a video testing different AR configurations and basically said its rider dependent on what they want.

11
7/3/2025 9:25pm
TEAMROBOT wrote:
Hey y'all something going on in these Maven levers in the pits at La Thuille. Heard from Alan Muldoon at MBR that the Canyon DH...

Hey y'all something going on in these Maven levers in the pits at La Thuille. Heard from Alan Muldoon at MBR that the Canyon DH team had these same gold cams in their Mavens at Leogang. Any theories? More leverage? Less leverage? More ramp? Less ramp?

Most likely the trickle down from new maven base- less force needed for initial lever pull. Kaz on the other page did a good review on them and mentioned that it was so good, he’d ride them over the ultimates. 

You probably know this already, but are just trying to get users to convers on the forum. Touché, if so, 

3
7/3/2025 9:31pm

I prefer the bases on my DH bike than the TRP PRO and Maven Silvers on anther bike.
a touch less initial power which has been great to add a little bit more control.

1
7/3/2025 9:39pm
It still seems silly to me to put a floating brake mount on a Horst link bike. 

The Cube floating brake arm is is a beast.

It still seems silly to me to put a floating brake mount on a Horst link bike. 

I don’t think it’s silly if a rider wants a different character than the frame was designed with.Neko made a video testing different AR configurations and...

I don’t think it’s silly if a rider wants a different character than the frame was designed with.


Neko made a video testing different AR configurations and basically said its rider dependent on what they want.

I think people believe that certain frame designs like horst link or split pivot have no influence from the brake on the suspension, so a floating brake wouldn't do anything. The marketing from some of those frames kind of gave that impression. Really they (floating brakes) can alter the braking characteristic of almost any bike in either direction as well (more or less anti rise)

5
chriskief
Posts
720
Joined
4/15/2017
Location
New York, NY US
7/3/2025 10:53pm
TEAMROBOT wrote:
Hey y'all something going on in these Maven levers in the pits at La Thuille. Heard from Alan Muldoon at MBR that the Canyon DH...

Hey y'all something going on in these Maven levers in the pits at La Thuille. Heard from Alan Muldoon at MBR that the Canyon DH team had these same gold cams in their Mavens at Leogang. Any theories? More leverage? Less leverage? More ramp? Less ramp?

Based on where that 2mm bolt sits, it looks like they've reworked the SwingLink (26 in first diagram) to be more like the Pushrod (18 in second diagram) in the Base lever. Appears that it's adjustable as well. More/less leverage is my guess.

Ultimate / Bronze

ultimate 0.jpg?VersionId=9GpRnSVFAUltrzU8H6UjEPjiHa

Base

base.jpg?VersionId=emE
21
seanfisseli
Posts
559
Joined
4/16/2024
Location
Santa Cruz, CA US
7/3/2025 11:04pm

So I assumed that the Base was going to be different from the other Mavens, but maybe we will see the first case of Trickle Up Technology? At least, maybe the popularity of the base has sent the team off in search of a solution that will give the Ultimate users a chance to adjust leverage the same way we have been able to adjust bit point, throw, etc?

7
lickmycrinkle
Posts
210
Joined
1/27/2021
Location
Beverly Hills, CA US
7/4/2025 1:11am

 

Ochain / SRAM is official.

4
TimBud
Posts
530
Joined
2/29/2012
Location
GB
7/4/2025 1:28am

So Sram are playing with a lighter pull setup... Even though "everyone" swears blind that the heavy pull is the bESt thINg EvAr. This U-turn is nearly as funny as the "we will never make a mineral oil brake".

They would make an incredible political party with plays like this.

 

25
4
7/4/2025 4:34am
TimBud wrote:
So Sram are playing with a lighter pull setup... Even though "everyone" swears blind that the heavy pull is the bESt thINg EvAr. This U-turn is...

So Sram are playing with a lighter pull setup... Even though "everyone" swears blind that the heavy pull is the bESt thINg EvAr. This U-turn is nearly as funny as the "we will never make a mineral oil brake".

They would make an incredible political party with plays like this.

 

It's really funny that SRAM's sponsored elite riders are going for a setup that's less bitey with a lighter lever feel, because I got downvoted to hell on the other site for saying that the initial heavy bite was a bad thing.

12
5
TimBud
Posts
530
Joined
2/29/2012
Location
GB
7/4/2025 4:42am
It's really funny that SRAM's sponsored elite riders are going for a setup that's less bitey with a lighter lever feel, because I got downvoted to...

It's really funny that SRAM's sponsored elite riders are going for a setup that's less bitey with a lighter lever feel, because I got downvoted to hell on the other site for saying that the initial heavy bite was a bad thing.

Well yeah you dared to share a negative thought about Sram 😅🤷🏽‍♂️

It such a contrary thinkg that all of a sudden a heavy lever is seen as a positive. Lets get rid of power steering and bring back heavy clutches in cars too 😬

6
3
7/4/2025 4:55am
TimBud wrote:
Well yeah you dared to share a negative thought about Sram 😅🤷🏽‍♂️It such a contrary thinkg that all of a sudden a heavy lever is seen...

Well yeah you dared to share a negative thought about Sram 😅🤷🏽‍♂️

It such a contrary thinkg that all of a sudden a heavy lever is seen as a positive. Lets get rid of power steering and bring back heavy clutches in cars too 😬

I refuse to be gaslit into believing that a heavy lever action with a super strong bite point isn't a recipe for disaster

6
2
mfoga
Posts
743
Joined
9/21/2015
Location
Moreno Valley, CA US
7/4/2025 6:46am

 

Ochain / SRAM is official.

Wonder if that means no more compatibility with other cranks 

6
Brian_Peterson
Posts
1131
Joined
4/26/2011
Location
Canyon Country, CA US
7/4/2025 6:55am

I would love to hear the feedback they got that lead to the Maven.. I haven't ridden them much, but they sound like the Saints I rode that the bite was right away.. Granted, that bite point had a tendency to change during the run... Tryin  to drag that brake took a really light touch. For me, my older TRP Quadiums are pretty much perfect.. I can feel the contact point and if I need more power, I squeeze a bit harder..I never need more than one finger on the lever. I did put in a set of Sram 2mm rotors so they hit a bit sooner.. Only downside is a bit of pad rub with fresh pads, but it goes away pretty quick..

1
1
seanfisseli
Posts
559
Joined
4/16/2024
Location
Santa Cruz, CA US
7/4/2025 7:14am
I would love to hear the feedback they got that lead to the Maven.. I haven't ridden them much, but they sound like the Saints I...

I would love to hear the feedback they got that lead to the Maven.. I haven't ridden them much, but they sound like the Saints I rode that the bite was right away.. Granted, that bite point had a tendency to change during the run... Tryin  to drag that brake took a really light touch. For me, my older TRP Quadiums are pretty much perfect.. I can feel the contact point and if I need more power, I squeeze a bit harder..I never need more than one finger on the lever. I did put in a set of Sram 2mm rotors so they hit a bit sooner.. Only downside is a bit of pad rub with fresh pads, but it goes away pretty quick..

I think the feedback is that a large percentage of riders were looking for the most powerful brakes/brake combo they could find. If you’re developing brakes you think “well what’s the far extreme of braking power look like? What does it look like if we make the most powerful brake on the market by a wide margin?” To some the power is unusable, but to others it’s exactly what they have been chasing after. Either way they kick the reputation they earned of having underpowered brakes.

6
1
Brian_Peterson
Posts
1131
Joined
4/26/2011
Location
Canyon Country, CA US
7/4/2025 7:48am
I think the feedback is that a large percentage of riders were looking for the most powerful brakes/brake combo they could find. If you’re developing brakes...

I think the feedback is that a large percentage of riders were looking for the most powerful brakes/brake combo they could find. If you’re developing brakes you think “well what’s the far extreme of braking power look like? What does it look like if we make the most powerful brake on the market by a wide margin?” To some the power is unusable, but to others it’s exactly what they have been chasing after. Either way they kick the reputation they earned of having underpowered brakes.

I didn't feel Codes were really under powered, but im not a WC DH racer.. However,  the first thing I did on those was turn in the contact adjustment.. Still a bit spungey on the lever, but controllable.. That's what I like about my current setup.. It really feels in between a Sram and Shimano.. Good initial bite with the ability to add more power as needed without feeling too squishy at the lever.. Sounds like the Maven base wight be pretty similar going off the PB review..

2
Post a reply to: MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

This forum thread has been locked.

The Latest