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I'll be honest, all the enduro bros not riding it this weekend made me a lot less interested in making terrible financial decisions. I know, shows me how much of a memetic mob follower I am, but I have to think if it let these guys go faster, more comfortably, even just a little bit, they'd go to it. Or at least we'd see a mix of them in the field. When I parse this against what Jordi said, I'm feeling a lot less "i must have that". Maybe it just rides different and takes some getting used to, or maybe me not being nearly as fast as Richie is what will make it so good for me. He doesn't struggle with arm/hand fatigue it appears.
Regardless, I still will probably buy one in the next 12 months, but I'm way happier to let others play first-batch test mule, plus my youtube channel (my "rationale" to buying one) only makes me like $300/month (edit, just looked, its a lot less than that). The math doesn't math. LOL.
Keep in mind that the stages from the last round of this EDR had what I would consider more mid stage climbs then normal. If ever, there was a round with stages where an extra 3/4lb of weight would matter, this may have been the one.
Not to say you should definitely go buy it, but you have to remember that racers use what they are comfortable with, as they are going to smash into a corner at warp speed and just want a consistent feeling. Swapping to a fork they've had what, a month or two on for a major race is a big question mark for them.
I think the fork is cool, I definitely won't buy one, but its cool to see some new tech and ideas coming to market.
I think the next step is to go the Dorado route and make the crown/uppers carbon, and see where that gets us in terms of weight and stiffness.
Of course I recognize this, and Richie already raced the Podium back in Finale this year. https://www.pinkbike.com/photo/28138500/
Maybe he just was winging it at Finale and is being more calculated? Maybe he didn't actually like it (its possible). Maybe he just wants more time?
I honestly don't know, but again, this idea he couldn't race it or had no time doesn't appear true. This goes with my hypothesis that we're in a plataue of mountain bike technology. Though it may be possible to make something different, making something notably better on the race track is hard.
I think that's a fair assessment. I know of a few DH riders that didn't like the new forks when they came out, specifically the new Boxer, but we're forced to run it.
I hate being a weight weenie, but day 1 was like 1900m of climbing and day 2 2200m, maybe he didn't want to lug the extra weight around?
Theres lots of legitimate reasons he prefers the 38
Tax write off for the YouTube channel makes this more appealing?
Not sure how your tax code works but I think I could get away with that here in NZ.
Yeah, I have a fairly intuitive understanding of the physics and the numbers thanks to previous jobs, so I'll rephrase to what I actually mean. The natural frequency and damping properties of the axles make as much difference to the bike as a gnat's fart does to a hurricane. It's nonsense to consider. As soon as you tension it, bolt it into the dropouts, and have two bearings and sleeves/spacers etc sitting on it, it's impossible to excite at any frequency other than what the system its now part of is now experiencing as a whole, and at that point its the stiffness that defines the vibration, not the natural frequency of the part.
Give the end of your axle a tap while its bolted up inside your fork or hub. Can you hear it ring out like a tuning fork? I'm gonna go with no. Spokes will probably ring out a little though.
I don't think its worth looking into what the pros are running too much right now. It is easy to ride something for a short time or even a couple weeks and have enough time to think "ok, this is definitely a better product" but still have it catch you out the odd time until your muscle memory completely updates itself. I tested the Trust Shout for around three months IIRC, I think it took me two weeks before I knew exactly what I liked about it and what I didn't, but it took me two months before my muscle memory for the bike was correct. Until then I'd ride it 99.9% perfectly, but once every few rides i'd be like "wooooah ok whoops". The main reason it would catch me out would be situations where the differences in stiffness/responsiveness/stability were different from a normal fork and would affect my front wheel grip, which is obviously major. With how ROBOT described the fore/aft stiffness and the behavior in berms etc, I can see how this fork could be enough of a change that you can't just get on it and be comfy with it when you're riding with far less margin like a racer does. Being realistic, I'm sure they all know that its vanishingly unlikely that a slightly better fork will win them the race, and they really won't want a new product to cost them the race. Plus there's the uncertainty for reliability etc.
there's also the aspect of not making a major change to their setup midway through the race season
I’m with Brines. Sure maybe the fork is an evolution and better (sounds like it probably is). But this seems like pretty strong evidence that it’s not waaaaay better or in a different league, which was the vibe I was getting from all the initial media on it.
Yeah, that's kinda what I was getting at. The fact that a bunch of them rode it for a race before launch and didn't after makes me think either the pre-launch race use was required by contract to generate buzz, or they were hyped to try it and did but had issues with it that made them not want to run it the next race. The "racers don't like to change what they know works" thing is valid, but on the other hand lots of launch day reviews talked about how easy it was to set up. So those 2 things don't really line up either. Anyways, it just seemed to show that maybe the fork isn't all fluffy candy unicorn droppings that the launch day reviews made it seem like.
Yeah that is fair, also if anyone is able to push the limits of torsional flex it would be Richie Rude......everyone else, not so much. The other thing I would add is I don't actually believe that bikes and parts can make some one faster, but they can hold you back - there is for sure a point where if something is performing or set up badly it will slow you down, so as long as its working well enough and you have some headroom then you don't need anything better. That point is going to be different for everyone though, and probably depends on things like your preferences/tolerance for comfort and also how far out of your comfort zone you are riding. A less skilled person pushing themselves to ride better and get faster can appreciate a good fork because it gives them more margin for error, whereas a really good rider who has total confidence can "get away" with something that anyone else would barely be able to keep on track. So yeah the Podium probably doesn't make him any faster, the comfort benefits aren't a priority and the 38 likely does everything he wants in a predictable package
There are definitely top pros out there who have had the attitude of not fussing about set up when they are riding a wave of confidence and getting great results, but when things slip they tend to start looking more at where they can make gains. This is one thing I like about Bruni and the Specialized team - they do a ton of testing and development but I don't get the impression they rely on it to make them faster. Its just a constant progression of optimising and collecting data, so they never get left behind in that respect and Loic can just focus on riding as good as he can, with complete confidence his bike is as good as it can be.
Ya. I'm thinking by this time next year, the proof will be in the pudding and we'll see if more pros have made the switch.
Richie did ride it at the Squamish enduro for what is worth.
https://www.rootsandrain.com/photos/15407325/rider/13629
My guess is that more people than we think were running 180mm options this weekend, which means no podium.
I think there's a curve to how much new gear can help of hurt an athlete's performance.
Given basic functional gear beginner riders aren't being held back by there gear, but good gear can make progression easier.
Upper mid level riders can actually begin to benefit from better gear as they progress past the limits of basic gear. Better damping in suspension is a good example, it helps retain control at higher levels of riding.
Top level riders can again benefit from better gear that can keep up with them. On the other hand the best riders are also capable of compensating for less than perfect gear. Think about pros riding stock damping in top level suspension instead of tunes specifically for them and their bike and preferences. The catch to new gear for this level of rider is that it takes time to get to 100% on new gear even if it's good. They may get up to 80-90% quickly when switching from a 38 to a podium, but it takes longer to get that last 10% that they are looking for.
So it’s been more than a week already since the fork was presented and we still don’t have the service procedure info on tech.ridefox.com, no info on oil levels etc
I’m mostly interested in the air spring changes, like the lack of slickoleum and the move to just using oil to lubricate it - but that lag just makes me think there will be non factory versions of the fork
Yeah, I agree with this. I'd also say I'm being a huge nerd (dork?) about all of this. We all know the most important factor with respect to bike riding is the rider. I make this argument all the time that I'm looking for a bike that allows me to go fast and go fast consistently (stay off the ground). The truth is, if this is what I really cared about, I'd leave my bike as is and go get a coach, a personal trainer, eat better, stop drinking beer, buy an 8sleep etc. Hell, an eight sleep alone would probably impact how I perform on the bike more than any new fangled suspension product.
My point is I know these tech gadget wizardy things can all help, and it is super fun when the bike feels like an extension of your body, but usually the best way to feel incredible on the bike is through hard work, discipline and sacrifice. Throwing money at the problem in the form of technology might be fun, and it sure can feel "easy button" like, but yeah, I'm a total hypocrite when you get down to it.
Sorry for the thread derail, I just feel like the fast guys are fast no matter what. And the dorks are...dorks. I know what category I'm in...LOL.
Can anyone compare the feel and performance of the Podium to a Fox or Rockshox fork equipped with a coil conversion like the Push kit?
I think yzdef mentioned he was on avalanche coil stuff.
All the excitement about the Podium got me thinking back to the days when a coil sprung front fork for trail applications was one of the options from Fox, called a Vanilla, I think. I always went for the coil when it was immediately available. It just went away. And with its disappearance came a whole lotta stiction and an easily adjustable air spring.
I went back and did some review reading from 5-6 years ago when the Push coil conversion came out for the Fox 36. The reviews sound very similar to what people are reporting about the Podium in some respects- fantastic small bump compliance and smoothness in the front end, and more traction, with a weight penalty. When you read these reviews it would seem that the vast majority of the stiction that makes things feel harsh is in the air spring.
Is that stiction in the air spring also causing extra fork flex and further stiction in the bushings with said flex because it just takes that much more force to get the fork to break loose? You'd think so based on what the dudes who test bikes thought about the that Push coil conversion.
its got me very tempted to put a Push ACS3 into my last gen Fox 36 170mm and go back to the days of coil spring smoothness for $300 or so. Less head shake, better vision, better information processing speed, more SPEED through the forest!!!!
All this has been spinning in my head a bit in the context of the radial tires also. For me, the radial casing tires are a big improvement in small bump absorption and a lot of traction. This new calmness on the bike has my head shaking around less and I'm feeling confidence that is really really fum to experience! What would happen to my head and vision if I added in yet another tool to reduce that chatter and vibration and shaking, allowing vision and information processing to improve even more???
I've had a bunch of coil converted forks, I love them and at the same time hate them.
I've had 2 Smashpot 36's and a Boxxer world cup with the NSR coil kit and were fantastic, but I always had issues with heatshrink moving on the spring and causing excessive noise. However performance was unmatched.
My current 38 is what I would call "dialed" as far as a stock fork goes. When pushed it is brilliant, but just trundling along and trail riding it can feel harsh. Best way I can explain a coil converted fork is it's plush when you want it to be, but supportive when you are hauling ass. When you think the damper has a significant contribution to how a fork "Feels" you are proven wrong when you convert them to coil if you know what I mean. It's a massive component to stiction and performance.
Fox is notoriously slow at publishing tech info....all the 2026 stuff that was released a while ago now still isn't up and I wouldn't be surprised if that was still several months away!
I'll just patiently wait for Fox to release a rebranded, cheaper, Marzocchi version so I can perform coil debauchery like god intended.
Using PTFE heat shrink sorted the migration issue for me. Obviously you should properly degrease the spring before application 🙂
I am a professional nerd who used to be moderately fast on a bike 20 years ago.
A lot of my nerding out on bike stuff these days is dedicated to compensating for old injuries instead of going faster.
Looks like Richie is back on the new fork this weekend for La Thuille? But I think he's focusing on DH this season and not EDR, so I don't know if he'll be racing this bike this weekend.
Yeah as soon as it launched I was like come on you guys actually own the rights to that name! Maybe next year we get the new Shiver 😯
Ever since Fox bought Marzocchi I've been waiting for them to split the catalogues by going Fox = air / Zoke = coil.
so I did a good bit of manual URL scouring on the fox service site in the days I was waiting for mine to arrive, but didn't find anything more than the user manual. Once it showed up I just gave fox a call and asked them about manuals, they said there aren't going to be full service manuals for likely 3-6 months. Their reasoning was any time they release a new product like this, they want to be doing any immediate work needed themselves, so that they can know if anything is going on with the forks. I understand where they're coming from, I find it hard to imagine anyone will be hitting that 125hr service interval multiple times in a few months, and while I work at a shop that does all our suspension work in house and would definitely be annoyed to have to ship stuff into fox just because they say so, I recognize fox has invaluable information to gain from seeing what real person, real world use does to a product at scale. All that said, I'm gonna go ahead and post the basic service info the fox guy was willing to share with me and really hope fox doesn't mind.
I already pulled mine apart and found everything seemed fine, no excess grease in the airspring, adequate bath oil on both sides. We have bushing burnishing tools at my shop, and seeing Diaz's posts about his I may pull mine apart again and take a more thorough look at it, but it's a rather seldomly performed service so I'm not quite a wizard at it. I do find myself in the fortuitous position of also having an Intend to compare it to, though for all my shiny toys I'm not the most distinguishing reviewer of fine details, I'll see if I can find anyone to loan them to who may be able to construct some useful analysis...
Final note I just remembered, on the inside line Robot mentioned talking to a fox tech about the design process and the tech saying they swapped the airspring and damper on their personal fork to avoid getting airspring oil on their rotor, but he was unsure if that entailed pressing the stanchions into the dropouts swapped, or if anyone could do this swap themselves. I can confirm than both lower legs appear to use the same stanchion, both have a negative transfer dimple, as well as circlip seats for the airspring, and the csu topcaps are fully removable. I didn't end up doing the swap on my fork, but it really looks to be a trivial task once you're already doing a service.
The part about fox wanting to see forks themselves in the early stages of a product launch is actually legitimate - it can be a real issue when people try to sort problems themselves since they are often misdiagnosed or not even reported back to the manufacturer at all. For example, when a shop opens up a fork that's only a few rides old and finds no oil , they probably think it just wasn't filled at the factory when it was actually sucked in to the damper. If they just add more oil, it just increases the problem and maybe causes damper failure before the manufacturer is even fully aware of it. When I was working with marzocchi it was super common and massively delayed things that could have been fixed if it was known about earlier. So while its a huge pain to send back a brand new fork, it does help the customer and everyone else in the long ryn
Yeah you absolutely need that front length for that style of guard. I cut the front of the guard off my moto at one point because I fucked it in a fence and didn't want to have nothing until the new one turned up. Had about 5-6 inches of length in front of the fork and it was absolutely terrible.
A second binding Podium has hit Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DMjL7O2S-5t/?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==
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