Yeah, after last season i've been thinking about it alot, but also debating about build a set of WAO unions. Been missing the feel of carbon rims on my bigger bike.
Good feedback everyone. I do agree that DD's feel nice, but the sidewall support is more or less the same as EXO+. I'm relieved to find...
Good feedback everyone. I do agree that DD's feel nice, but the sidewall support is more or less the same as EXO+. I'm relieved to find out I'm not crazy. I'm going to continue trying out the DD's with inserts for my ebike, and see if I can get through the year on the reserve AL/HD hoop that I have on it without murdering it. I typically murder 1 ex511/reserve AL-HD per year, so that wouldn't be pretty standard.
I think it's time to bite the bullet and just go to DH casing rear tires for my enduro bike and ebike and ditch the inserts. I think I will keep the DD front tire. If I were to blow up a front rim, then that'll just be a badge of honor as I've only done that once and it's still a great story to this day.
Unrelated, my wife's contribution to this thread, would be that she "fixes" (her words, not mine) the Assegai hot patch on her tires to read "AssegaL". Other than aggressively proclaiming "Maxxis for Life" anytime someone tries to suggest a different tire setup to her, this is her prevailing opinion about mountain bike tires.
Yeah, after last season i've been thinking about it alot, but also debating about build a set of WAO unions. Been missing the feel of carbon...
Yeah, after last season i've been thinking about it alot, but also debating about build a set of WAO unions. Been missing the feel of carbon rims on my bigger bike.
I recommend looking into WAO Convergence rims instead due to better vertical compliance and better bracing angle for spokes. I personally found the Unions deep U shape profile pretty harsh on rough terrain.
On the topic of tires, I think I have a new favorite for fast enduro/DH riding. Maxxis HR3 Exo+ front and Kryptotal Re Soft rear. I loved the Argotal last season but the shorter and wider side knobs on the HR3 give such a satisfying locked in feel no matter how blown the trails are. I know it is a blunder to mix tire brands but a DHR2 feels too draggy for long pedal days so Krypto Re is the way to go for me. The Argotal now lives on my alpine wheelset for riding scree etc.
Yeah, after last season i've been thinking about it alot, but also debating about build a set of WAO unions. Been missing the feel of carbon...
Yeah, after last season i've been thinking about it alot, but also debating about build a set of WAO unions. Been missing the feel of carbon rims on my bigger bike.
I recommend looking into WAO Convergence rims instead due to better vertical compliance and better bracing angle for spokes. I personally found the Unions deep U...
I recommend looking into WAO Convergence rims instead due to better vertical compliance and better bracing angle for spokes. I personally found the Unions deep U shape profile pretty harsh on rough terrain.
On the topic of tires, I think I have a new favorite for fast enduro/DH riding. Maxxis HR3 Exo+ front and Kryptotal Re Soft rear. I loved the Argotal last season but the shorter and wider side knobs on the HR3 give such a satisfying locked in feel no matter how blown the trails are. I know it is a blunder to mix tire brands but a DHR2 feels too draggy for long pedal days so Krypto Re is the way to go for me. The Argotal now lives on my alpine wheelset for riding scree etc.
I can concur on the Convergence vs Union statement
I've heard that some like the extra compliance of the newer profile, but I was never against the unions, they were always well damped feeling rims. However, given the option of offset spoke holes or not I will always take offset drilling above most else. Even the 2mm of the unions allows for almost a 10% gain in spoke tension differential, probably my favorite part of building/re-building reserve rims is the 4mm offset. Horses for courses...
I wish there were more semi-slick options available nowadays. I feel like tire companies only stopped making them because they weren't selling, not because they don't...
I wish there were more semi-slick options available nowadays. I feel like tire companies only stopped making them because they weren't selling, not because they don't perform well for their intended use case.
To that point, what semi-slicks are even still in production?
I went through all of the Semi-slicks and rarely did the lack of braking traction bother me but the lack of climbing traction always caught me out.
But I had 3 issues with them:
1) They flat easy right in the center tread
2) They are really slow when leaned over and it's very noticeable. If you are doing a trail ride where you lean a lot in fast sweepers it feels like you are dragging the brakes in the turns, you give up a lot of speed.
3) For AM riding I found the Wicked Will in the back superior in nearly every way (except cost and maybe wear). The WW was better rolling (especially when leaned over) had notably better climbing and braking traction, and probably only gave up 15% in leaned over traction, which in the rear I don't really care about. The WW is a GREAT rear tire on a pedal bike especially if you are sensative to rolling resistance.
I went through all of the Semi-slicks and rarely did the lack of braking traction bother me but the lack of climbing traction always caught me...
I went through all of the Semi-slicks and rarely did the lack of braking traction bother me but the lack of climbing traction always caught me out.
But I had 3 issues with them:
1) They flat easy right in the center tread
2) They are really slow when leaned over and it's very noticeable. If you are doing a trail ride where you lean a lot in fast sweepers it feels like you are dragging the brakes in the turns, you give up a lot of speed.
3) For AM riding I found the Wicked Will in the back superior in nearly every way (except cost and maybe wear). The WW was better rolling (especially when leaned over) had notably better climbing and braking traction, and probably only gave up 15% in leaned over traction, which in the rear I don't really care about. The WW is a GREAT rear tire on a pedal bike especially if you are sensative to rolling resistance.
Have you ridden a Rekon and if so how do the two compare?
For those who have run the Enduro and DH casings in the Conti Gravity line, do you think the casing difference has a big effect on pedaling and rolling speed? Just got out for the first ride on my new Sentinel yesterday with the DH KryptFr SS and DH Xynotal Soft, and found the bike to feel quite draggy and stiff even with the fast rolling tread out back. I’m not a particularly light rider, but I’m starting to wonder if I should step down to the Enduro casings now that you can get the Supersoft tires.
I think at the end of the day it's a mixture of casing, copound and tread. I normally ran a 3C (MaxxTerra) up front and a dual compound rear in EXO casing (ranging across HR2, Aggressor, DHR2, Assegai) and everything was in line with each other, except the Assegai - that thing is an anchor. DC or 3C didn't make a significant differenece in any case, neither did moving to a DD 3C Maxxis (forgot which tread to be honest, I think it was a HR2).
Moving to Wild Enduro racing line Michelins (DH casing, soft rubber) it was like a freaking tanker anchor. I was getting passed on rolling descents by friends if I didn't pedal (they didn't). Now on Trail caisng Soft Magic Mary/Big Betty combo I again don't see a major drag coming from the tyres.
Based off this I'd say DH casing does have a factor in a tyre being slow rolling as does a softer compound. Tread can influence it, but I'd say it's third on the list or at least only influences things in the extremes.
About 5-6 rides in on dual Albert Soft radials. Was out of town so missed 2 weeks.
Just ordered a Magic Mary Trail Pro super soft radial for the front. I want a little more of a direct feel on lean in the front than I can get out of the Albert. The Albert side knobs can be moved around quite a bit with a thumb on them. There is also no real channel on lean like I'm used to with a DHF that gives me a locked in feel once the lean angle is sufficient. They break loose and start to slide in a predictable manner at a reasonably high threshold and I have not lost the front completely, but I'd like a little more confidence when leaning over far, so gonna try the Mary. Haven't ridden a Mary in 8 years or so...
Loving the radial dampening characteristics, high speed rolling, tall profile, and wear of these tires so far. I believe there is a lot of potential in this casing and I am excited for other makers to start releasing tires with their own version of radial casings.
Have you ridden a Rekon and if so how do the two compare?
Sorry, but I've never tested the Rekon. Looks like a great rear trail tire.
If you care about max traction, well buy the max traction tires. But if you are on a trail bike and want the max overall speed, there is a lot to be gained by going with 'just enough traction' tires. It also can make you feel like quite the hero at times, sliding around, gaining speed everywhere.
On my Relay however, the parameters are different:
Up front I'm now on the Vee Tire C Attack HPL, GXE Core (this is the 'light' 1275g casing), Full 40 (soft durometer) and so far, it's definitely working a bit better for me than the Radial MM. The Vee doesn't have long knobs to cut through the looser rocks, but more like flat closer knobs in a perfect semi-circle to have surface area on the base ground. So far, it's working very well.
In the rear I went with the 27.5 x 2.5 DHR2 DH. It's certainly good enough but I preferred both the 2.6 Albert gravity soft, but my favorite has probably been the 2.5 Aggressor out back. The Relay is not a powerful e-bike and that DHR2 really drags, but also, it's a flat tire that fights leaning the bike over.
At first, I took the non-radials out for a ride at radial tire pressures, and that was a total error. Gosh dang they were harsh. But dropping 5 psi made those harsh feelings fade. Are they as plush as Radials? No. But once at speed and psi of both is correct, I don't know if I could tell much difference. Radials are super obvious at slow speeds and normal PSI like on a test ride, but once you increase pressures and go faster it's not much of anything.
I should also add that life has really gotten in the way of my riding lately and I'm not the finely tuned tire testing machine that I usually am. LOL
Sorry, but I've never tested the Rekon. Looks like a great rear trail tire.If you care about max traction, well buy the max traction tires. But...
Sorry, but I've never tested the Rekon. Looks like a great rear trail tire.
If you care about max traction, well buy the max traction tires. But if you are on a trail bike and want the max overall speed, there is a lot to be gained by going with 'just enough traction' tires. It also can make you feel like quite the hero at times, sliding around, gaining speed everywhere.
Rekon is excellent on hardpack but once you have a bit of loose stuff on top, the braking performance suffers a lot. Also the Maxterra side knobs do not last very long due to deep siping and soft rubber. I started tearing the side knobs off after maybe 12-14 rides. Dual compound is more drifty but much longer lasting. I've found Forekaster rear to be a good alternative for loose over hard conditions and lasts longer while being just as fast rolling.
Grid Trail is at least as good as EXO+. I have never flatted that casing on the front or rear since I started running Specialized over Maxxis three years ago, but most of the time I'm on full gravity casing rear (have never flatted that casing, too).
I have the new Butcher/Eliminator combo mounted up now in full gravity 2.6/2.4 on an enduro bike, so will give some feedback in a few weeks.
Grid Trail is at least as good as EXO+. I have never flatted that casing on the front or rear since I started running Specialized over...
Grid Trail is at least as good as EXO+. I have never flatted that casing on the front or rear since I started running Specialized over Maxxis three years ago, but most of the time I'm on full gravity casing rear (have never flatted that casing, too).
I have the new Butcher/Eliminator combo mounted up now in full gravity 2.6/2.4 on an enduro bike, so will give some feedback in a few weeks.
I haven't tried the new Grid Trail casing, but the old ones really were made of paper. The new Grid Trail tires are a lot heavier than the old ones, the same way the new Bontrager tires are 200+ grams heavier too for the equivalent casing. The tough thing with Specialized tires is that they'll change things in their product line without changing the name at times. For instance, the Butcher has had multiple tread patterns, but they're all called the Butcher. Casings and rubber compounds change. At least they rolled out the T7 and T9 thing so we have some sense of a new rubber compound, but I think the T9 Cannibals are a different rubber than T9 Butchers.
Grid Trail is at least as good as EXO+. I have never flatted that casing on the front or rear since I started running Specialized over...
Grid Trail is at least as good as EXO+. I have never flatted that casing on the front or rear since I started running Specialized over Maxxis three years ago, but most of the time I'm on full gravity casing rear (have never flatted that casing, too).
I have the new Butcher/Eliminator combo mounted up now in full gravity 2.6/2.4 on an enduro bike, so will give some feedback in a few weeks.
I haven't tried the new Grid Trail casing, but the old ones really were made of paper. The new Grid Trail tires are a lot heavier...
I haven't tried the new Grid Trail casing, but the old ones really were made of paper. The new Grid Trail tires are a lot heavier than the old ones, the same way the new Bontrager tires are 200+ grams heavier too for the equivalent casing. The tough thing with Specialized tires is that they'll change things in their product line without changing the name at times. For instance, the Butcher has had multiple tread patterns, but they're all called the Butcher. Casings and rubber compounds change. At least they rolled out the T7 and T9 thing so we have some sense of a new rubber compound, but I think the T9 Cannibals are a different rubber than T9 Butchers.
The trail casing has been untouched since either 22 or 23. They are much burlier than before. I can get away with riding those on my trail bike if I am careful, I cant say the same about EXO+. I've been told, from a pretty reliable source, that the T9 is the same across all the tires. What makes the difference is the base rubber durometer and how much of the T9 is laid on top of the base compound. Everyone is using a harder/stiffer base rubber for support and the ratio of base to cap, T9 in this case, can have a very large influence in how the knobs flex and deform. From my own squish testing in the garage, the new butchers have more T9 and less base like the Cannibals as a way to generate more grip. As a result, they had to make the knobs physically much larger to withstand the resulting deformation of a bike being pushed through a corner. *The last two sentences are pure theory so take that with a grain of salt. Maybe we can get some tire brand experts to chime in...
Grid Trail is at least as good as EXO+. I have never flatted that casing on the front or rear since I started running Specialized over...
Grid Trail is at least as good as EXO+. I have never flatted that casing on the front or rear since I started running Specialized over Maxxis three years ago, but most of the time I'm on full gravity casing rear (have never flatted that casing, too).
I have the new Butcher/Eliminator combo mounted up now in full gravity 2.6/2.4 on an enduro bike, so will give some feedback in a few weeks.
I haven't tried the new Grid Trail casing, but the old ones really were made of paper. The new Grid Trail tires are a lot heavier...
I haven't tried the new Grid Trail casing, but the old ones really were made of paper. The new Grid Trail tires are a lot heavier than the old ones, the same way the new Bontrager tires are 200+ grams heavier too for the equivalent casing. The tough thing with Specialized tires is that they'll change things in their product line without changing the name at times. For instance, the Butcher has had multiple tread patterns, but they're all called the Butcher. Casings and rubber compounds change. At least they rolled out the T7 and T9 thing so we have some sense of a new rubber compound, but I think the T9 Cannibals are a different rubber than T9 Butchers.
The trail casing has been untouched since either 22 or 23. They are much burlier than before. I can get away with riding those on my...
The trail casing has been untouched since either 22 or 23. They are much burlier than before. I can get away with riding those on my trail bike if I am careful, I cant say the same about EXO+. I've been told, from a pretty reliable source, that the T9 is the same across all the tires. What makes the difference is the base rubber durometer and how much of the T9 is laid on top of the base compound. Everyone is using a harder/stiffer base rubber for support and the ratio of base to cap, T9 in this case, can have a very large influence in how the knobs flex and deform. From my own squish testing in the garage, the new butchers have more T9 and less base like the Cannibals as a way to generate more grip. As a result, they had to make the knobs physically much larger to withstand the resulting deformation of a bike being pushed through a corner. *The last two sentences are pure theory so take that with a grain of salt. Maybe we can get some tire brand experts to chime in...
Isn't Conti's approach the exact opposite, soft innards and harder wearing outside layer?
I haven't tried the new Grid Trail casing, but the old ones really were made of paper. The new Grid Trail tires are a lot heavier...
I haven't tried the new Grid Trail casing, but the old ones really were made of paper. The new Grid Trail tires are a lot heavier than the old ones, the same way the new Bontrager tires are 200+ grams heavier too for the equivalent casing. The tough thing with Specialized tires is that they'll change things in their product line without changing the name at times. For instance, the Butcher has had multiple tread patterns, but they're all called the Butcher. Casings and rubber compounds change. At least they rolled out the T7 and T9 thing so we have some sense of a new rubber compound, but I think the T9 Cannibals are a different rubber than T9 Butchers.
The trail casing has been untouched since either 22 or 23. They are much burlier than before. I can get away with riding those on my...
The trail casing has been untouched since either 22 or 23. They are much burlier than before. I can get away with riding those on my trail bike if I am careful, I cant say the same about EXO+. I've been told, from a pretty reliable source, that the T9 is the same across all the tires. What makes the difference is the base rubber durometer and how much of the T9 is laid on top of the base compound. Everyone is using a harder/stiffer base rubber for support and the ratio of base to cap, T9 in this case, can have a very large influence in how the knobs flex and deform. From my own squish testing in the garage, the new butchers have more T9 and less base like the Cannibals as a way to generate more grip. As a result, they had to make the knobs physically much larger to withstand the resulting deformation of a bike being pushed through a corner. *The last two sentences are pure theory so take that with a grain of salt. Maybe we can get some tire brand experts to chime in...
Isn't Conti's approach the exact opposite, soft innards and harder wearing outside layer?
Don’t believe so, but I’ll try to confirm, I have more tires in my garage than I could probably ever ride in the next few years, might be worth hacking a few up to measure durometer across the knob layer… I have one or two of the softs and a few pairs of the SS dh casing. This just a selection of what’s sitting out…
Don’t believe so, but I’ll try to confirm, I have more tires in my garage than I could probably ever ride in the next few years...
Don’t believe so, but I’ll try to confirm, I have more tires in my garage than I could probably ever ride in the next few years, might be worth hacking a few up to measure durometer across the knob layer… I have one or two of the softs and a few pairs of the SS dh casing. This just a selection of what’s sitting out…
You're welcome to mail me some of those tires if you have too many.
I'm a Maxxis guy but I let my 130 lb. 15 y.o. boy pick out a new rear tire and he went with a Continental Kryptotal rear DH SS 29 mounted on a 541 with cushcore. Ran 25 lbs. since it's wet here in Whistler. He burped it and flatted. Luckily it was at the bottom and he said he heard a rim ding noise on the berm after the last jump on A-line and thought it came from his front rim. He does a better job bringing his whips back than I do, I weigh 150, run a 27.5 DHRII DH 2.5 no insert on a 511 with 24lbs and I never burp. Was getting this tire a mistake? If he has to run 30 lbs, which is normal for him it was my idea to run 25 today, why bother with the cushcore? He ran a Tanus insert last year with DH DHRII and flatted that. Would have got him a DHRII if we could have found him a maxxterra 2.5. He picked the SS based on the promise of better wear than a maxxgrip.
I'm a Maxxis guy but I let my 130 lb. 15 y.o. boy pick out a new rear tire and he went with a Continental Kryptotal...
I'm a Maxxis guy but I let my 130 lb. 15 y.o. boy pick out a new rear tire and he went with a Continental Kryptotal rear DH SS 29 mounted on a 541 with cushcore. Ran 25 lbs. since it's wet here in Whistler. He burped it and flatted. Luckily it was at the bottom and he said he heard a rim ding noise on the berm after the last jump on A-line and thought it came from his front rim. He does a better job bringing his whips back than I do, I weigh 150, run a 27.5 DHRII DH 2.5 no insert on a 511 with 24lbs and I never burp. Was getting this tire a mistake? If he has to run 30 lbs, which is normal for him it was my idea to run 25 today, why bother with the cushcore? He ran a Tanus insert last year with DH DHRII and flatted that. Would have got him a DHRII if we could have found him a maxxterra 2.5. He picked the SS based on the promise of better wear than a maxxgrip.
I go back and forth between those exact two tires as my rear tire on different wheelsets (Continental Kryptotal rear DH SS vs. Maxxis DHRII DH 2.5) and I have to run 3-4 psi more on the Conti to get the same ride feel, no folding in turns, not dinging rims or bottoming out tires. It just seems like the Conti DH casing is a little more pliable. YMMV. And yes, you heard right, the slow tire wear on the rear SS Conti is pretty great. I'm trying out a Maxxis DHRII DH 2.5 in MaxxTerra to see if that lasts a little longer, while being more damped and grippy than a Maxxis Dual Compound tire. Will report back soon.
I'm a Maxxis guy but I let my 130 lb. 15 y.o. boy pick out a new rear tire and he went with a Continental Kryptotal...
I'm a Maxxis guy but I let my 130 lb. 15 y.o. boy pick out a new rear tire and he went with a Continental Kryptotal rear DH SS 29 mounted on a 541 with cushcore. Ran 25 lbs. since it's wet here in Whistler. He burped it and flatted. Luckily it was at the bottom and he said he heard a rim ding noise on the berm after the last jump on A-line and thought it came from his front rim. He does a better job bringing his whips back than I do, I weigh 150, run a 27.5 DHRII DH 2.5 no insert on a 511 with 24lbs and I never burp. Was getting this tire a mistake? If he has to run 30 lbs, which is normal for him it was my idea to run 25 today, why bother with the cushcore? He ran a Tanus insert last year with DH DHRII and flatted that. Would have got him a DHRII if we could have found him a maxxterra 2.5. He picked the SS based on the promise of better wear than a maxxgrip.
I go back and forth between those exact two tires as my rear tire on different wheelsets (Continental Kryptotal rear DH SS vs. Maxxis DHRII DH...
I go back and forth between those exact two tires as my rear tire on different wheelsets (Continental Kryptotal rear DH SS vs. Maxxis DHRII DH 2.5) and I have to run 3-4 psi more on the Conti to get the same ride feel, no folding in turns, not dinging rims or bottoming out tires. It just seems like the Conti DH casing is a little more pliable. YMMV. And yes, you heard right, the slow tire wear on the rear SS Conti is pretty great. I'm trying out a Maxxis DHRII DH 2.5 in MaxxTerra to see if that lasts a little longer, while being more damped and grippy than a Maxxis Dual Compound tire. Will report back soon.
How’s the grip of the MaxxTerra in the rear? It’s been a minute since I’ve ridden one of those
To me available traction goes something like MaxxGrip, Conti Supersoft, Spec T9, MaxxTerra and then Spec T7.
Maxxis burns up fast, Conti and Spec don’t. Cold wet New England riding I only want the MaxxGrip. Conti performance drops a lot with the temperature. Spec does as well, just not as much I feel.
Tire pressure low to high for me is Maxxis, Spec then Conti, roughly 2psi per brand on 27.5 30mm internal rims. Being that I’m sensitive to tire squirm and sidewalls getting grabbed by sharper rocks I have no interest in the new radial stuff from Schwalbe, the old purple stripe super soft Magic Mary burned up even faster than MaxxGrip but was somehow still not good in the cooler temps.
How’s the grip of the MaxxTerra in the rear? It’s been a minute since I’ve ridden one of those
Fine so far, but can't really say because I've only ridden in SoCal summer dry. Grip really shows up in the wet, and I think harder tires oftentimes feel better on the concrete-like hardpack down here, especially in the rear. I will say that the MaxxTerra rear tire feels more damped than a Dual Compound, which is nice, and that probably bodes well for grip. More info coming soon.
I'm a Maxxis guy but I let my 130 lb. 15 y.o. boy pick out a new rear tire and he went with a Continental Kryptotal...
I'm a Maxxis guy but I let my 130 lb. 15 y.o. boy pick out a new rear tire and he went with a Continental Kryptotal rear DH SS 29 mounted on a 541 with cushcore. Ran 25 lbs. since it's wet here in Whistler. He burped it and flatted. Luckily it was at the bottom and he said he heard a rim ding noise on the berm after the last jump on A-line and thought it came from his front rim. He does a better job bringing his whips back than I do, I weigh 150, run a 27.5 DHRII DH 2.5 no insert on a 511 with 24lbs and I never burp. Was getting this tire a mistake? If he has to run 30 lbs, which is normal for him it was my idea to run 25 today, why bother with the cushcore? He ran a Tanus insert last year with DH DHRII and flatted that. Would have got him a DHRII if we could have found him a maxxterra 2.5. He picked the SS based on the promise of better wear than a maxxgrip.
I go back and forth between those exact two tires as my rear tire on different wheelsets (Continental Kryptotal rear DH SS vs. Maxxis DHRII DH...
I go back and forth between those exact two tires as my rear tire on different wheelsets (Continental Kryptotal rear DH SS vs. Maxxis DHRII DH 2.5) and I have to run 3-4 psi more on the Conti to get the same ride feel, no folding in turns, not dinging rims or bottoming out tires. It just seems like the Conti DH casing is a little more pliable. YMMV. And yes, you heard right, the slow tire wear on the rear SS Conti is pretty great. I'm trying out a Maxxis DHRII DH 2.5 in MaxxTerra to see if that lasts a little longer, while being more damped and grippy than a Maxxis Dual Compound tire. Will report back soon.
How’s the grip of the MaxxTerra in the rear? It’s been a minute since I’ve ridden one of those
My take is that unless you're in the PNW or somewhere else that's notoriously damp and rocky and you're pedaling the bike to top a lot of the time, I'd get a maxxterra as your default tire and a maxxgrip to sub in from time to time. I'm in the southeastern US and that's how I do it. I'll throw the maxxgrip on for things like a trip to Pisgah when the trails are damp or a bike park trip that involves air travel (if I'm going to all that expense and trouble, I say f' it and burn a rear tire on the trip to have the most traction possible).
It also depends on your fitness. Someone with a lot of fitness/youth can get that maxxgrip rear to the top a lot easier. If you know you're going to be on the struggle bus on long climbs, might choose the maxxterra and deal with it on the downs. To me, there is a BIG difference in the way they roll on the rear.
I'm going back and forth on whether the maxxgrip should be a DHRII or HR3 . . .
I think general soil makeup or base rock should also play a factor. Anything granite like will have heaps more grip, especially in the wet, compared to limestone for example. Dry limestone is about as grippy as wet granite.
To me available traction goes something like MaxxGrip, Conti Supersoft, Spec T9, MaxxTerra and then Spec T7. Maxxis burns up fast, Conti and Spec don’t. Cold wet...
To me available traction goes something like MaxxGrip, Conti Supersoft, Spec T9, MaxxTerra and then Spec T7.
Maxxis burns up fast, Conti and Spec don’t. Cold wet New England riding I only want the MaxxGrip. Conti performance drops a lot with the temperature. Spec does as well, just not as much I feel.
Tire pressure low to high for me is Maxxis, Spec then Conti, roughly 2psi per brand on 27.5 30mm internal rims. Being that I’m sensitive to tire squirm and sidewalls getting grabbed by sharper rocks I have no interest in the new radial stuff from Schwalbe, the old purple stripe super soft Magic Mary burned up even faster than MaxxGrip but was somehow still not good in the cooler temps.
That's interesting on the super soft MM - have you tried running it at lower pressure?
I know when I switched from a conti Kryptotal upfront to an MM, I ended up settling on 20psi for trail and park riding (Sunrise Az, not a lot of berms).
Yeah, after last season i've been thinking about it alot, but also debating about build a set of WAO unions. Been missing the feel of carbon rims on my bigger bike.
This is amazing!
I recommend looking into WAO Convergence rims instead due to better vertical compliance and better bracing angle for spokes. I personally found the Unions deep U shape profile pretty harsh on rough terrain.
On the topic of tires, I think I have a new favorite for fast enduro/DH riding. Maxxis HR3 Exo+ front and Kryptotal Re Soft rear. I loved the Argotal last season but the shorter and wider side knobs on the HR3 give such a satisfying locked in feel no matter how blown the trails are. I know it is a blunder to mix tire brands but a DHR2 feels too draggy for long pedal days so Krypto Re is the way to go for me. The Argotal now lives on my alpine wheelset for riding scree etc.
I can concur on the Convergence vs Union statement
I've heard that some like the extra compliance of the newer profile, but I was never against the unions, they were always well damped feeling rims. However, given the option of offset spoke holes or not I will always take offset drilling above most else. Even the 2mm of the unions allows for almost a 10% gain in spoke tension differential, probably my favorite part of building/re-building reserve rims is the 4mm offset. Horses for courses...
I went through all of the Semi-slicks and rarely did the lack of braking traction bother me but the lack of climbing traction always caught me out.
But I had 3 issues with them:
1) They flat easy right in the center tread
2) They are really slow when leaned over and it's very noticeable. If you are doing a trail ride where you lean a lot in fast sweepers it feels like you are dragging the brakes in the turns, you give up a lot of speed.
3) For AM riding I found the Wicked Will in the back superior in nearly every way (except cost and maybe wear). The WW was better rolling (especially when leaned over) had notably better climbing and braking traction, and probably only gave up 15% in leaned over traction, which in the rear I don't really care about. The WW is a GREAT rear tire on a pedal bike especially if you are sensative to rolling resistance.
Have you ridden a Rekon and if so how do the two compare?
For those who have run the Enduro and DH casings in the Conti Gravity line, do you think the casing difference has a big effect on pedaling and rolling speed? Just got out for the first ride on my new Sentinel yesterday with the DH KryptFr SS and DH Xynotal Soft, and found the bike to feel quite draggy and stiff even with the fast rolling tread out back. I’m not a particularly light rider, but I’m starting to wonder if I should step down to the Enduro casings now that you can get the Supersoft tires.
I think at the end of the day it's a mixture of casing, copound and tread. I normally ran a 3C (MaxxTerra) up front and a dual compound rear in EXO casing (ranging across HR2, Aggressor, DHR2, Assegai) and everything was in line with each other, except the Assegai - that thing is an anchor. DC or 3C didn't make a significant differenece in any case, neither did moving to a DD 3C Maxxis (forgot which tread to be honest, I think it was a HR2).
Moving to Wild Enduro racing line Michelins (DH casing, soft rubber) it was like a freaking tanker anchor. I was getting passed on rolling descents by friends if I didn't pedal (they didn't). Now on Trail caisng Soft Magic Mary/Big Betty combo I again don't see a major drag coming from the tyres.
Based off this I'd say DH casing does have a factor in a tyre being slow rolling as does a softer compound. Tread can influence it, but I'd say it's third on the list or at least only influences things in the extremes.
About 5-6 rides in on dual Albert Soft radials. Was out of town so missed 2 weeks.
Just ordered a Magic Mary Trail Pro super soft radial for the front. I want a little more of a direct feel on lean in the front than I can get out of the Albert. The Albert side knobs can be moved around quite a bit with a thumb on them. There is also no real channel on lean like I'm used to with a DHF that gives me a locked in feel once the lean angle is sufficient. They break loose and start to slide in a predictable manner at a reasonably high threshold and I have not lost the front completely, but I'd like a little more confidence when leaning over far, so gonna try the Mary. Haven't ridden a Mary in 8 years or so...
Loving the radial dampening characteristics, high speed rolling, tall profile, and wear of these tires so far. I believe there is a lot of potential in this casing and I am excited for other makers to start releasing tires with their own version of radial casings.
Sorry, but I've never tested the Rekon. Looks like a great rear trail tire.
If you care about max traction, well buy the max traction tires. But if you are on a trail bike and want the max overall speed, there is a lot to be gained by going with 'just enough traction' tires. It also can make you feel like quite the hero at times, sliding around, gaining speed everywhere.
On my Relay however, the parameters are different:
Up front I'm now on the Vee Tire C Attack HPL, GXE Core (this is the 'light' 1275g casing), Full 40 (soft durometer) and so far, it's definitely working a bit better for me than the Radial MM. The Vee doesn't have long knobs to cut through the looser rocks, but more like flat closer knobs in a perfect semi-circle to have surface area on the base ground. So far, it's working very well.
In the rear I went with the 27.5 x 2.5 DHR2 DH. It's certainly good enough but I preferred both the 2.6 Albert gravity soft, but my favorite has probably been the 2.5 Aggressor out back. The Relay is not a powerful e-bike and that DHR2 really drags, but also, it's a flat tire that fights leaning the bike over.
At first, I took the non-radials out for a ride at radial tire pressures, and that was a total error. Gosh dang they were harsh. But dropping 5 psi made those harsh feelings fade. Are they as plush as Radials? No. But once at speed and psi of both is correct, I don't know if I could tell much difference. Radials are super obvious at slow speeds and normal PSI like on a test ride, but once you increase pressures and go faster it's not much of anything.
I should also add that life has really gotten in the way of my riding lately and I'm not the finely tuned tire testing machine that I usually am. LOL
Rekon is excellent on hardpack but once you have a bit of loose stuff on top, the braking performance suffers a lot. Also the Maxterra side knobs do not last very long due to deep siping and soft rubber. I started tearing the side knobs off after maybe 12-14 rides. Dual compound is more drifty but much longer lasting. I've found Forekaster rear to be a good alternative for loose over hard conditions and lasts longer while being just as fast rolling.
Grid Trail is at least as good as EXO+. I have never flatted that casing on the front or rear since I started running Specialized over Maxxis three years ago, but most of the time I'm on full gravity casing rear (have never flatted that casing, too).
I have the new Butcher/Eliminator combo mounted up now in full gravity 2.6/2.4 on an enduro bike, so will give some feedback in a few weeks.
I haven't tried the new Grid Trail casing, but the old ones really were made of paper. The new Grid Trail tires are a lot heavier than the old ones, the same way the new Bontrager tires are 200+ grams heavier too for the equivalent casing. The tough thing with Specialized tires is that they'll change things in their product line without changing the name at times. For instance, the Butcher has had multiple tread patterns, but they're all called the Butcher. Casings and rubber compounds change. At least they rolled out the T7 and T9 thing so we have some sense of a new rubber compound, but I think the T9 Cannibals are a different rubber than T9 Butchers.
The trail casing has been untouched since either 22 or 23. They are much burlier than before. I can get away with riding those on my trail bike if I am careful, I cant say the same about EXO+. I've been told, from a pretty reliable source, that the T9 is the same across all the tires. What makes the difference is the base rubber durometer and how much of the T9 is laid on top of the base compound. Everyone is using a harder/stiffer base rubber for support and the ratio of base to cap, T9 in this case, can have a very large influence in how the knobs flex and deform. From my own squish testing in the garage, the new butchers have more T9 and less base like the Cannibals as a way to generate more grip. As a result, they had to make the knobs physically much larger to withstand the resulting deformation of a bike being pushed through a corner. *The last two sentences are pure theory so take that with a grain of salt. Maybe we can get some tire brand experts to chime in...
Not sure if links to the other site are frowned upon here, but new Maxxis tread pattern.
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/spotted-new-maxxis-tire-on-jackson-goldstones-santa-cruz-v10.html
Looks like it could be a DHF 2 and maybe bridge the gap between Asagai and HR3.
picture of the tread pattern for anyone who is too lazy to click the link.
Isn't Conti's approach the exact opposite, soft innards and harder wearing outside layer?
Don’t believe so, but I’ll try to confirm, I have more tires in my garage than I could probably ever ride in the next few years, might be worth hacking a few up to measure durometer across the knob layer… I have one or two of the softs and a few pairs of the SS dh casing. This just a selection of what’s sitting out…
You're welcome to mail me some of those tires if you have too many.
Any sight of new radials at Eurobike?
I'm a Maxxis guy but I let my 130 lb. 15 y.o. boy pick out a new rear tire and he went with a Continental Kryptotal rear DH SS 29 mounted on a 541 with cushcore. Ran 25 lbs. since it's wet here in Whistler. He burped it and flatted. Luckily it was at the bottom and he said he heard a rim ding noise on the berm after the last jump on A-line and thought it came from his front rim. He does a better job bringing his whips back than I do, I weigh 150, run a 27.5 DHRII DH 2.5 no insert on a 511 with 24lbs and I never burp. Was getting this tire a mistake? If he has to run 30 lbs, which is normal for him it was my idea to run 25 today, why bother with the cushcore? He ran a Tanus insert last year with DH DHRII and flatted that. Would have got him a DHRII if we could have found him a maxxterra 2.5. He picked the SS based on the promise of better wear than a maxxgrip.
I go back and forth between those exact two tires as my rear tire on different wheelsets (Continental Kryptotal rear DH SS vs. Maxxis DHRII DH 2.5) and I have to run 3-4 psi more on the Conti to get the same ride feel, no folding in turns, not dinging rims or bottoming out tires. It just seems like the Conti DH casing is a little more pliable. YMMV. And yes, you heard right, the slow tire wear on the rear SS Conti is pretty great. I'm trying out a Maxxis DHRII DH 2.5 in MaxxTerra to see if that lasts a little longer, while being more damped and grippy than a Maxxis Dual Compound tire. Will report back soon.
How’s the grip of the MaxxTerra in the rear? It’s been a minute since I’ve ridden one of those
To me available traction goes something like MaxxGrip, Conti Supersoft, Spec T9, MaxxTerra and then Spec T7.
Maxxis burns up fast, Conti and Spec don’t. Cold wet New England riding I only want the MaxxGrip. Conti performance drops a lot with the temperature. Spec does as well, just not as much I feel.
Tire pressure low to high for me is Maxxis, Spec then Conti, roughly 2psi per brand on 27.5 30mm internal rims. Being that I’m sensitive to tire squirm and sidewalls getting grabbed by sharper rocks I have no interest in the new radial stuff from Schwalbe, the old purple stripe super soft Magic Mary burned up even faster than MaxxGrip but was somehow still not good in the cooler temps.
Fine so far, but can't really say because I've only ridden in SoCal summer dry. Grip really shows up in the wet, and I think harder tires oftentimes feel better on the concrete-like hardpack down here, especially in the rear. I will say that the MaxxTerra rear tire feels more damped than a Dual Compound, which is nice, and that probably bodes well for grip. More info coming soon.
My take is that unless you're in the PNW or somewhere else that's notoriously damp and rocky and you're pedaling the bike to top a lot of the time, I'd get a maxxterra as your default tire and a maxxgrip to sub in from time to time. I'm in the southeastern US and that's how I do it. I'll throw the maxxgrip on for things like a trip to Pisgah when the trails are damp or a bike park trip that involves air travel (if I'm going to all that expense and trouble, I say f' it and burn a rear tire on the trip to have the most traction possible).
It also depends on your fitness. Someone with a lot of fitness/youth can get that maxxgrip rear to the top a lot easier. If you know you're going to be on the struggle bus on long climbs, might choose the maxxterra and deal with it on the downs. To me, there is a BIG difference in the way they roll on the rear.
I'm going back and forth on whether the maxxgrip should be a DHRII or HR3 . . .
I think general soil makeup or base rock should also play a factor. Anything granite like will have heaps more grip, especially in the wet, compared to limestone for example. Dry limestone is about as grippy as wet granite.
That's interesting on the super soft MM - have you tried running it at lower pressure?
I know when I switched from a conti Kryptotal upfront to an MM, I ended up settling on 20psi for trail and park riding (Sunrise Az, not a lot of berms).
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