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I'm sure those are a great option and bearings definitely create a more durable pivot but isn't it more fun to make something yourself? The higher leverage levers I've designed are a bit longer than those as well since I'm starting with a slightly lower hydraulic ratio. Definitely not advocating that what I'm doing makes sense economically or time investment wise but at the end of the day tinkering on and modifying bikes is a fun and rewarding way to spend your time.
Quick question, I have a friend who had arthritis and his hands give up on longer descents. He's currently running Code RCSs with 200 rotors (and sintered pads). I'm just looking at options to make his life easier and (in increasing costs) the list is: pads (Sinter & co?), 220 mm rotors, Hayes Dominion A4, Mavens, 1k brakesets (Trickstuff, Intend, Radic & co.).
Am I missing something?
new shimano stuff coming, new hope levers not far off.
TRP evo pro
I have issues with my right thumb that cant handle long descents - something i Tried to learn was proper braking and not dragging etc.. (and important not to death grip as this makes it wwaaay worse)
Ended up with mavens to dish out immense power when needed but braking properly really changed not only my thumb issues but I gained decent speed overal.
if he's got hand issues, i think he doesn't need to spend extreme money on Trickstuff or similar, but i wouldn't waste money on "polishing the turd" aka pads and rotors on the codes, they're hard to pull and not that powerful.
Definitely i'd go with Either Hope V4 or Dominions, if the hand situation is really bad maybe the Kahas as they're super light but power ramps immediately giving fingers a very easy job
Talking to a friend who rides Dominions he mentioned the lever pull is light, but you need to squeeze hard to get power from them (and he can compare to Codes RSC on another bike).
A heavy lever pull in the freestroke is still much lighter than applying the power and if the Code has an advantage in the power delivery part of the stroke (due to the swing link) it might be better than a Dominion after all (as per @CascadeComponents comment on the previous page).
We'll possibly try a 220 rotor because we have one in the fleet and maybe try to align to have a test ride on the Dominions. I'll report back if/when we do something.
New hope levers?
I have chronic hand problems, there are some complexities in what you need to think about because issues are unique to everyone. What aggravates his issues? Force at the lever? Lever too far out? Lack of power? My issues are related to cubital tunnel syndrome causing nerve damage that creates hand pain, my issues are aggravated when the lever blades are out too far (so I run them close), brakes have power issues or fade (I'm 220lbs so this is a thing), but not so much when the lever force is high unless there is major clenching to get power.
I would flat out avoid Dominions. They aren't bad brakes but they are going to require a fair amount of lever force once the pads engage, the freestroke is light but the buildup in pressure required is fairly significant if you have problems. The power is also kindof middling compared to most options and heavier riders on longer descents having to manage hand problems will get worse due to fade. You'll find you really have to clench them to get lots of power when they heat up and the levers have to run somewhat far off the bar. They were great when they came out but IMO there are better options available today. For a normal rider without issues, this is less of a problem, but if you have issues like I do then it's a problem.
If their issues are aggravated by levers being far out (this changes the pressure points in your hand), then Maven, Hope, Intend, or Radic would be a good choices. The Radics have a very short throw with basically no deadstroke, lots of power, but a somewhat awkward lever shape. The Hopes have a very light pull with more length required, but not as much as something like the Maximas. The Mavens have an initial firmness to the lever but the additional force required to put power down is minimal compared to the others, it stays somewhat consistent, and the power available is really high and comes on very fast. If hand fatigue related to lever force is an issue then I'd rule those out in favor of Hope. The Intends will be somewhere between all of this, light throw, short-ish lever, some deadstroke but not a ton, no real fade issues, but hard to acquire - this is what I use, though, and found for me that these and the Hope T4 V4 were the best options.
If the levers being further out is OK then Maximas would be an option, but they require a longer lever throw than most of the options above to get the same power, but i tis a very light/smooth pull even compared to Hopes.
So, light throw: Hope (shorter), Maxima (longer); Firm throw but fairly linear power delivery: Maven; Short deadstroke, close to the bars: Radic. Flatly avoid: Magura, Shimano, Formula, Hayes
Something like the Fasst Flexx bars would be worth considering also, they make a huge difference in damping impacts to your hands through the bars. That said, after years of chasing this, I've just concluded I have to accept that it'll always be limiting to me and limit what I can do. These things mitigate and help but not eliminate, so it's important to listen to your body and not push things too far, when it starts feeling bad or weak - stop - people you ride with will just have to accept that and he'll have to come to terms with it, at least I have.
I'll read through it all later, just want to add that he is very good at listening to his body and analysing thing, but more importantly, handlebars are taken care of.
Edit: read it all and it's a wealth of information, thanks. One question, do you have experience with Code RSCs and where they stack up against all these options?
Hand arthritis is not accurate enough diagnosis to be able to help. Arthritis in where exactly? Fingers, MCP joints, wrist?
In terms of power they'd be on the lower side of the ones I listed, probably even below Dominions unless you really let the lever out. They require a longer lever stroke than most options there except maybe the Maximas, I can also fade them on longer descents. The deadstroke on them from what I recall is less than the Dominions but more than brakes like the Radic/Intend/Hopes. They are pretty linear and smooth, I don't recall a huge spike in lever force required when pads engage or later in the stroke but you don't get the same power as the others, either.
I'd say lever smoothness is on par with the others, it's really just power is less and ramp up is slow.
Basically any of the above would be an improvement in power. Keep in mind though it's been years since I ran them last, just what I can recall.
Just replacing the Code calipers, using RSC levers, to Dominion A4 calipers with pads, the "Codes" become much more powerful. Code RSCs are pretty bottom of the barrel compared to most other high tier offerings.
There is a lot of good information in what Shinook just wrote here. I'll chime in by saying that if continuous, significant lever force on long steep descents is what is causing the discomfort, go with the Mavens with a pair of big rotors. They are pretty much unmatched in terms of sheer power-to-lever force ratio IMO. Keep in mind that I am talking about the kind of steep where you need significant braking force for extended periods of time, in other words, once you are past the initial bite point and well into the powerful portion of the lever stroke. Think bike park days in real mountains. The Hope Tech 4 is ALMOST as powerful, so it's a great choice too, and the one to go for if you need/like very light lever action. It is the easiest brake to engage and the one that develops the most power early on after the bite point engages. Great if you like to feather/drag your brakes a lot. It also has gobs of power available for those steeper/longer descents, but it doesn't keep ramping quite as sharply as the Maven does deeper into the stroke - meaning you might feel as though you run out of finger power or have to pull the Hope deeper into the stroke to get the same power at the rotor.
223 rotors + Trickstuff Maxima/ Hope4 V4 + 50mm rise oneup bars. Spend a lot of time with cockpit setup.
what have yall found is the easiest way to track down just calipers if you want to mix and match? or.... just buying completes and doing it that way?
Depends on the brand I assume. Either just calipers direct from the manufacturer if they sell D2C, or from an online retailer. Other than the very boutique i think should be no problem finding calipers sold on their own.
yep, what i'd assume tech 5 lever, has a bleed screw near the clamp
add 12° backsweep bars = less hand issues on long descents. at least for me. pretty non existent anymore since i'm on intends on sq lab 30x 12° high risers
For me, that involves careful setup of bar height / stem length / bar roll and saddle tilt. My hands dislike flat and uphill pedally sections, for some reason.
This page is 🔥
It has me thinking of how I actually like to brake. Since I am needing a new set for my enduro bike and keep going back an forth between different sets. I haven't had a binary brake in a long time since I stopped riding trials, but I genuinely enjoyed the brake I had on that bike. I'm on Code Rs for enduro, and Guide RSCs on my trail bike. Even when perfectly bled, they both feel squishy and I am unable to lock the rear at strategic times. Just ordered Galfer rotors to improve the Codes, and a coworker may have some Code RSC handles he might give me for cheap.
So if I'm reading this right, for steep, uncharted, techy descents with sharp turns and occasional panic, it sounds like the Mavens would actually be the best one, but for long multi-mile green/blue trail or hiking trail the Dominions, Tech 4s, or Cura 4s would be best?
I guess, @shinook is the one that basically tried them all!
What I can say is that the Hopes are one of the best in terms of modulation, so if the Techy trails are also very steep and require lots of modulation it would be my choice over the Mavens
my personal opinion, if you like to drag the brake, I would suggest a lighter lever setup, It's much nicer on the hands and you are applying constant pressure to the lever, the hopes are Very good for this reason, light and very powerful some even say to much power for how light it actually is(green pads)
vs only braking when actually needing to, i would swing towards mavens that just unleash it.
Shimano brakes are light free stroke then got to pull quite hard to unlock the actual power and i feel like if you attempt to drag these your hands get quite sore but they dont dish out the power like Mavens do - I've also had countless issues with shimano's as they get older if you dont clean those pistons and refresh the oil they leak and go crap.
-side note to shimano brakes is they are often quite good for lighter riders
In my current testing of TRP Evo Pro's is they are a good middle ground between Shimano and Mavens - the best part of the TRP E23 caliper is you basically never have to touch it, as long as they've fixed the leaking bleed screw. The new Evo pro Set i have dont seem to leak and i was advised by TRP that you can basically never remove it to bleed them unless doing a rebuild or fluid flush.
running galfer Purple/ebike pads in the TRP's and they seem really good.
I wouldn't put Cura 4s in any category near 'best', personally. They are possibly ok if you are lighter and I like the design, but overall power is really weak and it requires a ton of clenching at the lever to put that power down by modern standards. Even with upgraded pads, I found them weaker than most options. I think when they came out they would've been higher up on the list but IMO there are better options available today.
In terms of feel and power I feel like the Mavens are really good, the issue is the form factor is really bad and they are heavy with a lever design that is a bit weird when it comes to setting up controls. The power can also almost be too much if you are lighter, but for heavier riders they are a really good option. The firmness in the lever never seemed to be an issue for me but it may be for some, I feel like the overall amount of force required to get good power out is still lower despite the initial resistance at the lever though. The force required with the Mavens doesn't ramp up as heavily as it does with others. Don't forget the Mavens also have adjusters you can use to tune this in slightly.
The Hope T4 V4, Intend Trinity, Radic Kaha all kindof get close to their power/feel in different ways. All have a lighter lever pull and better form factor, but vary in other ways I mention above and in my longer post. The Dominions can be kindof a mixed bag, I think they are a good all around option even if there are better but I've found the more I moved away from using them, the more there were better options but they hang in a lot better than the Cura 4s IMO. The Dominions are usable for me, the Curas just aren't, but again I have issues with my hands/arms that kinda requires brakes that have a short lever throw and bite really quickly
As a side note: I always got on better with the Cura 2 than the Cura 4. I thought the 4 was too spongy/vague and hard to get good power from, whereas the Cura 2 really worked well for me (back in the day...).
He is on 12° bars already, for a while and really likes it. Height shouldn't be an issue (55 mm rise currently with a lot of steerer left for added measure), also comfort wise the bars are sorted. In general we've (he's) got the cockpit handled, brakes are the question as hand grip strength is the issue now.
The best case scenario would probably be something that gives a lot of power for very low finger effort. Splurging on a 1000 euro brakeset is currently not on the horizon. Like I said, trying out a 220 mm rotor in the front will be step one just to get a feel on how things change, maybe trying out a different pad would be an option (open for recommendations, getting a set of Sinters shouldn't be a problem in Slovenia for example) and there might be an option of taking a set of Lewis brakes for a spin (the lever action is light and the power is very good). Based on the recommendations either Mavens (around 500 € for a pair) or Hopes (around 600 € for a pair currently) look good, but with Hopes at least I'd personally wait for the updated lever that includes the bleedport.
If grip strength is an issue then Hope is the way to go over Maven IMO. That would win out for me over the others if more expensive/boutique options were priced out.
I originally tried these b/c the folks at Geometron recommended them, so I bought both the 4s and the 2s. They said the same thing, the 2s have a firmer, more engaged bite point with less modulation. What you describe is exactly what I had issues with on the 4. I had intended on trying both, the 2s had a really interesting design I thought and the piston was very large.
I never got around to trying the 2s, though. I had them but the 4s were so far off for me that I never got around to putting them on. I was also using the new Formula lever and it wasn't exactly easy or cheap to acquire one, so I didn't wanna deal with swapping everything around between brake sets, I ended up giving them to a friend when I quit riding for a few months. I do regret not trying them but I kinda ran out of steam with trying brakes and just went back to Trinity on my SS, which is what worked best for me.
I think the lever blade is also shorter and maybe compatible with Tech 4. Am I the only one that doesn't really like the long one? The brakes feel really good, though.
Cura 2 is the brake bargain indeed and I agree they feel better than cura 4.
Question for the brake geeks.
I'm going to be picking up some Hope V4s soon, and I already have SRAM HS2 rotors. Should I be getting hope rotors as well or will I be all good just rocking the hs2s?
HS2 will be fine
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