The Bikeconomics (Mega)Thread

Suns_PSD
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Austin, TX US
2/26/2025 10:44am Edited Date/Time 2/27/2025 4:10am

I've never ridden the SJ15, don't need to as I rode a SJEVo for 3 years and every single thing that I wanted them to fix (i.e. leverage progression, sta, and BB height mainly), Spesh went in the opposite direction. The one thing they had done right (CS length) they went backwards on.

Not surprised that bike is a crash and burn. A used SJevo with a Cascade is flat a better bike. I liked mine with the Mullet shock clevis thing, but still running as a 29er. That fixed a lot of crap by making the BB adjustment actually useful as well as the long CS position functional, steepened the STA, and helped the bike pedal notably better. Those 2 changes really modernized that bike.

And Commencals handle great but are turds. They are expensive, sold from a tax haven, D2C, are heavy, and have an incredibly high failure rate.

They need to send their geo to Vietnam and have them made in CF so they will quit breaking and weigh 3#s less. And just the warranty savings alone should allow them to hold costs the same. 

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whitesq
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FC, CO US
2/26/2025 1:14pm

Re: "Jose Gonzalez Joins Canyon As Director of Suspension Technology" -PB

Reading between the lines, did Trek shut down their socal suspension lab or is it still going? 

2
2/26/2025 2:12pm
whitesq wrote:
Re: "Jose Gonzalez Joins Canyon As Director of Suspension Technology" -PBReading between the lines, did Trek shut down their socal suspension lab or is it still...

Re: "Jose Gonzalez Joins Canyon As Director of Suspension Technology" -PB

Reading between the lines, did Trek shut down their socal suspension lab or is it still going? 

As far as i know, it's still in Santa Clarita. It was moved into the Trek store over there, instead of being in it's own building. 

2
dolface
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2/26/2025 3:49pm

I guess this goes here? Brutal/funny commentary on Trailforks/Outside use of AI images:

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O1D4
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2/26/2025 4:40pm
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2/27/2025 6:34am Edited Date/Time 2/27/2025 6:35am
O1D4 wrote:

I noted this in the comments section—another great and informative piece from FortNine. However, at 13:01, when discussing Pierer’s investments (acquisitions), the video overlays an image of a KTM e-bike while the narration states, "they invested 300M in e-bikes."

While Pierer Mobility has indeed made significant e-bike investments (Raymon, Puello Family, Husqvarna E-Bikes, GasGas, etc.), KTM Bicycles is not part of Pierer Mobility or KTM Moto. This is a common misunderstanding, but an important distinction—KTM Bicycles remains an independent company, operating as it has for many years, and is not involved in Pierer’s restructuring.

Just wanted to clarify, as this mix-up has led to some confusion in the industry.

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jeff.brines
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2/27/2025 7:14am

Two thoughts 

KTM
Good callout by Stik. The root of the confusion seems to be that most people don’t know who Pierer Mobility is. So in casual conversation, you often hear, “Yeah, it was e-bikes that sunk KTM,” which is technically true. But that quickly gets misinterpreted as “KTM e-bikes sunk KTM,” which—ironically—is not true.

AI-Generated Content
Like it or not, this is here to stay. Ethics aside, companies like Outside using DALL·E, Stable Diffusion, or similar tools will become standard. No more royalties or payments to photographers, ultra-low costs, and continuous improvement—this train isn’t stopping and the outputs are improving vastly in crazy short amounts of time. We can complain all want, but its akin to an old man yelling at the wind. 

What will be even trickier is how AI gets integrated into traditional photo and video shoots to maximize content production. Modern marketing demands high-volume content, and AI will be a core part of making that happen. Maybe the rider is real, but everything else is augmented. Weird. Wild. Strange. 

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Eae903
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Fantasy
2/28/2025 12:54pm
veefour wrote:
From the story on MBR“BCF has bought all brand intellectual property for Nukeproof as well as all existing owned assets,”  “Giving BCF the right to manufacture...

From the story on MBR

“BCF has bought all brand intellectual property for Nukeproof as well as all existing owned assets,”  “Giving BCF the right to manufacture bikes from the existing range and innovate/ launch new Nukeproof models.”

I wouldn't be surprised if the deal gives Fraser Group the distribution rights for the UK, maybe that's where talk of the future etc comes from.

Buckets Up wrote:

Those are much clearer statements. Fingers crossed for a stable resurrection!

I definitely hope so too, but I'm a little hesitant about the company that bought them. Ridleys have had some significant issues before, specifically with their seat post wedges on the Noah and Noah fast road bikes. They used aluminum bolts that would strip out way to easily, and getting replacement parts was a pain. 

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Finkill
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GB
2/28/2025 1:19pm Edited Date/Time 2/28/2025 1:22pm
veefour wrote:
From the story on MBR“BCF has bought all brand intellectual property for Nukeproof as well as all existing owned assets,”  “Giving BCF the right to manufacture...

From the story on MBR

“BCF has bought all brand intellectual property for Nukeproof as well as all existing owned assets,”  “Giving BCF the right to manufacture bikes from the existing range and innovate/ launch new Nukeproof models.”

I wouldn't be surprised if the deal gives Fraser Group the distribution rights for the UK, maybe that's where talk of the future etc comes from.

Buckets Up wrote:

Those are much clearer statements. Fingers crossed for a stable resurrection!

Eae903 wrote:
I definitely hope so too, but I'm a little hesitant about the company that bought them. Ridleys have had some significant issues before, specifically with their...

I definitely hope so too, but I'm a little hesitant about the company that bought them. Ridleys have had some significant issues before, specifically with their seat post wedges on the Noah and Noah fast road bikes. They used aluminum bolts that would strip out way to easily, and getting replacement parts was a pain. 

I don't think this is a big concern. Lots of brands have had problematic proprietary seatpost clamps and headset/steerer issues on roadbikes in the past few years, none of those designs have moved over to the brands mountain bike range. It would be like saying a companies road bike performs poorly in aero testing so I think their mountain bikes will be bad, it's a non related issue from a completely different product type. 

Some staff from the previous incarnation of Nukeproof have been brought on to the new place, so hopefully they continue to make simple well performing bikes in future. Hopefully spares remain easy to obtain, even in the demise of the previous incarnation of Nukeproof, you could get spares from Ascend Components. 

1
dolface
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3/1/2025 7:35am

Welp...

7
3/3/2025 8:33am

I wonder how many companies are marking up inventory that is already in their warehouses? 

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bnflynn
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Mukilteo, WA US
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3/3/2025 10:00am

I wonder how many companies are marking up inventory that is already in their warehouses? 

This isn't necessarily something that would be done in bad faith. Sometimes you have to price for replacement cost. If you can't afford to replenish your inventory, you can't continue to sell.

And if you are looking for bad faith, you could potentially find it in the opposite as well: a shop/brand undercutting the competition by pricing product that was already in inventory well under the current cost of that item. 

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jeff.brines
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3/3/2025 10:39am

I wonder how many companies are marking up inventory that is already in their warehouses? 

bnflynn wrote:
This isn't necessarily something that would be done in bad faith. Sometimes you have to price for replacement cost. If you can't afford to replenish your...

This isn't necessarily something that would be done in bad faith. Sometimes you have to price for replacement cost. If you can't afford to replenish your inventory, you can't continue to sell.

And if you are looking for bad faith, you could potentially find it in the opposite as well: a shop/brand undercutting the competition by pricing product that was already in inventory well under the current cost of that item. 

Here’s how I would approach this situation. This is a bit CFO-ish.

First, let’s establish a few key assumptions:

Soft Market: Raising prices in a soft market is challenging.
Inventory: Many brands are sitting on excess inventory, including "stale" (older) stock.
China-Only Tariffs: In the near term, tariffs are only affecting goods imported from China. While a significant amount of goods originate there, many also come from other countries like Taiwan and Vietnam. 
 
What Does This Mean?
Ultimately, the strategy will depend on the financial health of the business and the "game theory optimal" approach balancing your product’s average selling price for end consumers against volume requirements. There’s a margin threshold below which the business becomes unsustainable. Similarly, there’s a sell-through rate that, if too low, also jeopardizes viability. Balancing these two factors - sell-through and margin - over time, while navigating a complex geopolitical landscape, will be critical. I can't stress enough how different this will be for every single brand out there. Product mix, cost of capital, amount of leverage, opex, etc etc will determine what lever you pull on and how hard. 
 
Shameless Plug
I know I mentioned it awhile back but its real now and I'm doing CFO advisory work. While I’m not specifically targeting the bike industry, I’ve had several people outside my usual network seek my assistance, and the fit feels natural. If any industry peeps read this and want to chat, I'm more than happy to articulate my process and the tools I bring in to help you steer your business during "times like this". 

Cheers!
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3/3/2025 4:23pm

Jeff - thanks as always for the insight.  Not trying to be a smart ass (this time), but wonder how many bike companies fully understand, yet alone practice, this level of analysis.  I'm sure the big boys do, but on the larger spectrum of all bike companies, what percentage do you think have the sophistication necessary to navigate these issues?  

I hope it's a high percentage, because this is a lot to put on the industry right now.  Wishing all the smaller companies the best and want to see them succeed.

2
Primoz
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3/3/2025 10:02pm

I'd say the question is how many companies can afford a CFO or a similar role. Unless said person is part of the start-up and goes above and beyond what the compensation is.

5
3/4/2025 10:20am
sspomer wrote:
Intense launches Frame First bike builder - https://intensecycles.com/pages/frame-first

Intense launches Frame First bike builder - https://intensecycles.com/pages/frame-first

17556516743250278741

Interesting new concept and that flow diagram makes the process seem so simple!

But what happens when one of your preferred components is OOS or backorderd for months? Can a shop deliver a partially built bike that's waiting for a part to restock or customer supplied parts not available on QBP? Who deals with compatibility checking?

From my experience with custom builds you can get about 80% of your first choice parts but then you have to compromise with alternatives, wait or internet your way to your spec. Will be interesting to see how this program pans out. 

3
3/4/2025 10:35am
sspomer wrote:
Intense launches Frame First bike builder - https://intensecycles.com/pages/frame-first

Intense launches Frame First bike builder - https://intensecycles.com/pages/frame-first

17556516743250278741
Interesting new concept and that flow diagram makes the process seem so simple!But what happens when one of your preferred components is OOS or backorderd for...

Interesting new concept and that flow diagram makes the process seem so simple!

But what happens when one of your preferred components is OOS or backorderd for months? Can a shop deliver a partially built bike that's waiting for a part to restock or customer supplied parts not available on QBP? Who deals with compatibility checking?

From my experience with custom builds you can get about 80% of your first choice parts but then you have to compromise with alternatives, wait or internet your way to your spec. Will be interesting to see how this program pans out. 

Generaly it works ok with Orbea's system doing this, only once did my shop have a hold up, that one was due to Maxxis being out of the customers tire choice.
I was able to get Orbea to just send the bike from Spain to NZ sans tires, and I fitted some I had in the shop (and was credited by Orbea for them).

4
Primoz
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3/4/2025 10:53am
sspomer wrote:
Intense launches Frame First bike builder - https://intensecycles.com/pages/frame-first

Intense launches Frame First bike builder - https://intensecycles.com/pages/frame-first

17556516743250278741
Interesting new concept and that flow diagram makes the process seem so simple!But what happens when one of your preferred components is OOS or backorderd for...

Interesting new concept and that flow diagram makes the process seem so simple!

But what happens when one of your preferred components is OOS or backorderd for months? Can a shop deliver a partially built bike that's waiting for a part to restock or customer supplied parts not available on QBP? Who deals with compatibility checking?

From my experience with custom builds you can get about 80% of your first choice parts but then you have to compromise with alternatives, wait or internet your way to your spec. Will be interesting to see how this program pans out. 

When I built my Bird Aeris AM9 in 2019, I only bought the dropper (Reverb) aftermarket as it was cheaper than in their configurator and I threw the carbon cranks off and put GX ones on. With the Aeris 9 build I did 2 years ago I asked what can I do without and not taking a drivetrain (I put it together by parts later) would mean I would get 'aftermarket' prices for components vs. prebuilt bike prices. In the end I went with a complete bike sans wheels and dropper as I already had wheels and I chose a OneUp 240 dropper and shelved the drivetrain (the intention was to put it on the AM9 to replace the worn out drivetrain before selling it).

Their configurator gives you the option to basically choose every single component bar the drivetrain, that comes as a kit. Don't know how other brands handle it.

2
3/4/2025 12:29pm

Well, the trade war has officially begun. 

Good luck to any companies that have significant cross border trade, particularly the small ones based in Squamish and Vancouver area. 

 

14
Rosmo
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Bragg Creek, AB CA
3/4/2025 1:51pm
Interesting new concept and that flow diagram makes the process seem so simple!But what happens when one of your preferred components is OOS or backorderd for...

Interesting new concept and that flow diagram makes the process seem so simple!

But what happens when one of your preferred components is OOS or backorderd for months? Can a shop deliver a partially built bike that's waiting for a part to restock or customer supplied parts not available on QBP? Who deals with compatibility checking?

From my experience with custom builds you can get about 80% of your first choice parts but then you have to compromise with alternatives, wait or internet your way to your spec. Will be interesting to see how this program pans out. 

It doesn’t even look like this is digitized, the buyer needs to print the form and hand write their choices in and then the shop will need to transcribe the order… too many variables and chances for entry errors in my opinion. I may be wrong but I didn’t see a list of said components to choose from. Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t get this. 

1
3/4/2025 3:41pm
Interesting new concept and that flow diagram makes the process seem so simple!But what happens when one of your preferred components is OOS or backorderd for...

Interesting new concept and that flow diagram makes the process seem so simple!

But what happens when one of your preferred components is OOS or backorderd for months? Can a shop deliver a partially built bike that's waiting for a part to restock or customer supplied parts not available on QBP? Who deals with compatibility checking?

From my experience with custom builds you can get about 80% of your first choice parts but then you have to compromise with alternatives, wait or internet your way to your spec. Will be interesting to see how this program pans out. 

Rosmo wrote:
It doesn’t even look like this is digitized, the buyer needs to print the form and hand write their choices in and then the shop will...

It doesn’t even look like this is digitized, the buyer needs to print the form and hand write their choices in and then the shop will need to transcribe the order… too many variables and chances for entry errors in my opinion. I may be wrong but I didn’t see a list of said components to choose from. Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t get this. 

QBP is also the last distributor that we'd look at for ordering parts, because their stock/brands/availability was trash in Canada. Its possible its better in the States, and that because of this deal, they may stock more generic parts... but generally when i see these two brands partner up, I'd be concerned that this won't work in the long run.

Its crazy how much bouncing around Intense has done in the last 10+ years. I wish them both well, and in concept i think its a great idea for the consumer.... i just hope that they are able to pull it off.

6
jeff.brines
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3/4/2025 4:05pm
Jeff - thanks as always for the insight.  Not trying to be a smart ass (this time), but wonder how many bike companies fully understand, yet...

Jeff - thanks as always for the insight.  Not trying to be a smart ass (this time), but wonder how many bike companies fully understand, yet alone practice, this level of analysis.  I'm sure the big boys do, but on the larger spectrum of all bike companies, what percentage do you think have the sophistication necessary to navigate these issues?  

I hope it's a high percentage, because this is a lot to put on the industry right now.  Wishing all the smaller companies the best and want to see them succeed.

Love the question.

Honestly, I don’t know. My guess is that most outdoor companies spend some time thinking about important factors like tariffs and inventory turns, but few take a truly critical look at their business to position themselves for long-term success and durability. 

To your second point, I completely agree, I want to see SMBs thrive. Don’t forget, something like 98% of companies in the U.S. generate under $100M in revenue. When I considered how to engage with clients, I aimed for a scalable, cost-effective approach that wasn’t limited to well-funded companies. What I came to realize is services like mine aren’t always needed on an ongoing basis. In fact, if I do my job well, a temporary engagement can deliver the same strategic insights as a full-time CFO, without the bias of someone protecting their biweekly paycheck. This adds the additional benefit of me being far more willing to say the unpopular (but honest) thing to the founder/CEO.

What makes this work is pairing the right (not-so-expensive) software solutions with a bit of management coaching. This ensures that once I step away, the management team can keep their eye on the ball and steer the business effectively - without getting stuck in 24/7 spreadsheet or KPI hell. I know I’m talking my own book here, but my big point is that strategic financial planning, forecasting and automation while integrating all your data so you can see what the hell is going on isn’t just for companies with deep pockets.

To that point, my first client, in the outdoor space, has already seen great results. His anxiety levels have lowered, he knows what to focus on, and he's spending less time on reports and syncing all his systems. Smile

6
jeff.brines
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Location
Grand Junction, CO US
3/4/2025 4:14pm

I'll do a bigger post on this later, but it seems to me there is a greater likelihood of recession than I expected even 8 weeks ago. 

A few data points caught my eye today:

Buffett Indicator: Currently sitting at ~2.1 standard deviations above the mean, signaling historically expensive equity valuations relative to GDP.

Atlanta Fed GDPNow: Forecasting a sharp economic contraction of -2.8% in Q1, a significant shift from recent strength.

Polymarket: Pricing in a 40% probability of a U.S. recession in 2025, reflecting rising concerns among market participants.

Image

If a recession materializes, especially alongside broad tariffs, ongoing inventory imbalances, and margin compression, this road could be longer than it already is. :-/


 

11
Rosmo
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Bragg Creek, AB CA
3/4/2025 4:51pm
QBP is also the last distributor that we'd look at for ordering parts, because their stock/brands/availability was trash in Canada. Its possible its better in the...

QBP is also the last distributor that we'd look at for ordering parts, because their stock/brands/availability was trash in Canada. Its possible its better in the States, and that because of this deal, they may stock more generic parts... but generally when i see these two brands partner up, I'd be concerned that this won't work in the long run.

Its crazy how much bouncing around Intense has done in the last 10+ years. I wish them both well, and in concept i think its a great idea for the consumer.... i just hope that they are able to pull it off.

I saw that it was QBP after my initial post… they are my least favourite vendor. Not all parts are available to all shops. This won’t be for me, it’ll be hard for a shop to not lose out on labour and time with this model. It’s a great direct to consumer play if anything. Who even owns a printer these days 

4
3/4/2025 6:08pm
I'll do a bigger post on this later, but it seems to me there is a greater likelihood of recession than I expected even 8 weeks...

I'll do a bigger post on this later, but it seems to me there is a greater likelihood of recession than I expected even 8 weeks ago. 

A few data points caught my eye today:

Buffett Indicator: Currently sitting at ~2.1 standard deviations above the mean, signaling historically expensive equity valuations relative to GDP.

Atlanta Fed GDPNow: Forecasting a sharp economic contraction of -2.8% in Q1, a significant shift from recent strength.

Polymarket: Pricing in a 40% probability of a U.S. recession in 2025, reflecting rising concerns among market participants.

Image

If a recession materializes, especially alongside broad tariffs, ongoing inventory imbalances, and margin compression, this road could be longer than it already is. :-/


 

From Apricitas Economics post this morning;

The costs of these actions are enormous, covering $1.3T in US imports or roughly 42% of all goods brought into the United States. If households and companies tried simply to import the same goods from the same countries as last year, they would now be forced to pay an 11.5% effective tariff or more than $370B in total

So yeah, shit creek without a paddle it is. 

5
3/4/2025 6:22pm
sspomer wrote:
Intense launches Frame First bike builder - https://intensecycles.com/pages/frame-first

Intense launches Frame First bike builder - https://intensecycles.com/pages/frame-first

17556516743250278741

Does anyone know if Intense is going to put their ebike frames into this program?  That would be a real differentiator.  

2
1
Eae903
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Laramie, WY US
Fantasy
3/6/2025 8:04am

Does anyone have any insights on how ride concepts is doing? Lots of sales on their sights, reduced styles and no new styles for a while. I love my RC vice shoes and hope they don't go away anytime soon. 

2
3/6/2025 8:07am
Eae903 wrote:
Does anyone have any insights on how ride concepts is doing? Lots of sales on their sights, reduced styles and no new styles for a while...

Does anyone have any insights on how ride concepts is doing? Lots of sales on their sights, reduced styles and no new styles for a while. I love my RC vice shoes and hope they don't go away anytime soon. 

Didn't Fox buy them out a while back?

5

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