MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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monarchmason
Posts
289
Joined
5/24/2022
Location
Nevada City, CA US
2/3/2025 5:40pm

Thanks for that. 

2/3/2025 5:54pm
It's also super hard to make TiN and other PVD coatings stick to aluminium properly without a lot of special preparation. They can be quite brittle...

It's also super hard to make TiN and other PVD coatings stick to aluminium properly without a lot of special preparation. They can be quite brittle so with the amount of flex a fork stanchion sees it would often flake off very easily. The coating itself doesn't even need to be that special for mtb products, its more important to get the clearances and surface finish dialled. Doing all of that and then applying an expensive coating is way overkill, especially mainstream products which is why chrome plating is being used on shocks like the Vorsprung Telum and most of Fox's products that aren't XC focussed. (The DHX2 used to be TiN as well btw)

Carraig042 wrote:

Steel stanchions.

 

Heard it here first.

I wouldn't object to that! Would be easier to make a strong/stiff fork at lower cost, plus steel is inherently lower friction and harder wearing than aluminium. Maybe not for everything but it could have its place in DH forks. Pressing a steel stanchion in to an alloy single crown could have a few issues I would guess

1
2/3/2025 6:02pm
It's also super hard to make TiN and other PVD coatings stick to aluminium properly without a lot of special preparation. They can be quite brittle...

It's also super hard to make TiN and other PVD coatings stick to aluminium properly without a lot of special preparation. They can be quite brittle so with the amount of flex a fork stanchion sees it would often flake off very easily. The coating itself doesn't even need to be that special for mtb products, its more important to get the clearances and surface finish dialled. Doing all of that and then applying an expensive coating is way overkill, especially mainstream products which is why chrome plating is being used on shocks like the Vorsprung Telum and most of Fox's products that aren't XC focussed. (The DHX2 used to be TiN as well btw)

Im sorry, Im a bit of a cultured ape. Would you mind explain what TiN is? Ive heard it before used in moto but thats about...

Im sorry, Im a bit of a cultured ape. Would you mind explain what TiN is? Ive heard it before used in moto but thats about it… 

dolface wrote:

Titanium Nitride, it's essentially a very hard ceramic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium_nitride

Yup probably one of the more common types of Physical Vapour Deposition which kind of squirts metal gas* on the part under vacuum. So its a thin coating applied over the top of the base metal, as opposed to something like anodising which transforms the outer surface in to an oxide layer with electricity and makes it harder that way. DLC is a similar process that applies a hard carbon layer instead, so the chemistry is a little different

 

*OK so a little more complicated than that

2
Jakub_G
Posts
353
Joined
8/7/2019
Location
SK
2/3/2025 10:42pm
HexonJuan wrote:

They did, but durability wasn't the issue. The surface was too smooth so had a tremendous amount of stiction. 

Fox on dhx2 had durability issues with TiN coating.On the other hand there are techniques to reduce stiction on very smooth surfaces that don't have pores.

2/4/2025 12:13am

Other site has a first look on the new Pivot bike(s) Trailcat SL and LT.

2/4/2025 2:23am Edited Date/Time 2/4/2025 2:23am
LeSud wrote:
Loïc Testing Fox on Mandelieu DH Track

Loïc Testing Fox on Mandelieu DH TrackIMG 8494IMG 8495

That frame also looks a bit less luggy and a bit less tubular than it usually does too?

Lacanuck24 wrote:
It does look a little different. I know the pixels are bad but it really does look like there's a bend in the down tube and...

It does look a little different. I know the pixels are bad but it really does look like there's a bend in the down tube and possibly in the top tube by the seat tube interface that angles towards the pivot. Possibly the production model? Masterful pixelation? Or my eyes are still wonky from making cross-eyed faces for kids earlier today

bruni-bike

You can also see the entire damper which is not the case with the current prototype as it is more integrated

1
2/4/2025 4:26am Edited Date/Time 2/4/2025 4:27am
Im sorry, Im a bit of a cultured ape. Would you mind explain what TiN is? Ive heard it before used in moto but thats about...

Im sorry, Im a bit of a cultured ape. Would you mind explain what TiN is? Ive heard it before used in moto but thats about it… 

dolface wrote:

Titanium Nitride, it's essentially a very hard ceramic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium_nitride

Yup probably one of the more common types of Physical Vapour Deposition which kind of squirts metal gas* on the part under vacuum. So its a...

Yup probably one of the more common types of Physical Vapour Deposition which kind of squirts metal gas* on the part under vacuum. So its a thin coating applied over the top of the base metal, as opposed to something like anodising which transforms the outer surface in to an oxide layer with electricity and makes it harder that way. DLC is a similar process that applies a hard carbon layer instead, so the chemistry is a little different

 

*OK so a little more complicated than that

"OK so a little more complicated than that"

yes.

First you must perform the proper rituals to appease the machine spirits. 

After that it's kinda like powder coating, except with plasma. 

*still grossly oversimplified 

9
dolface
Posts
1671
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Location
CA US
2/4/2025 6:39am

Other site has a first look on the new Pivot bike(s) Trailcat SL and LT.

At this point I'm just kind of in awe at their steadfast support of Super Boost...

17
amaranth
Posts
177
Joined
10/19/2023
Location
Nutley, NJ US
2/4/2025 6:53am
dolface wrote:

At this point I'm just kind of in awe at their steadfast support of Super Boost...

I think they've pigeonholed themselves into it at this point - they don't want to piss off current Pivot owners by changing standards more than anything.

11
jonkranked
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1185
Joined
5/5/2016
Location
Norristown, PA US
2/4/2025 6:53am

Other site has a first look on the new Pivot bike(s) Trailcat SL and LT.

dolface wrote:

At this point I'm just kind of in awe at their steadfast support of Super Boost...

maybe they overpurchased during covid and have a massive OEM stockpile of superboost hubs

9
TEAMROBOT
Posts
1390
Joined
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Location
Los Angeles, CA US
2/4/2025 8:27am
whitesq wrote:
Wouldn't be too surprised if that was true, I had been suspicious all last season. His stanchions have a different sheen and the black seems a...

Wouldn't be too surprised if that was true, I had been suspicious all last season. His stanchions have a different sheen and the black seems a bit more dull than the typical deep black anodized stock stanchions. DLC?

20240703 UCI DH WC LesGets SR36895

Adding unsprung mass is so hot right now

1
2/4/2025 8:31am Edited Date/Time 2/4/2025 8:31am
whitesq wrote:
Wouldn't be too surprised if that was true, I had been suspicious all last season. His stanchions have a different sheen and the black seems a...

Wouldn't be too surprised if that was true, I had been suspicious all last season. His stanchions have a different sheen and the black seems a bit more dull than the typical deep black anodized stock stanchions. DLC?

20240703 UCI DH WC LesGets SR36895

TEAMROBOT wrote:

Adding unsprung mass is so hot right now

'SPRUNG' mass if we're talking about the stanchions... 😉 ( /<pedantic mode> )

16
2/4/2025 8:35am

Atherton unveiling the new S.200 alloy DH bike, on course at Red Bull Hardline Tasmania this week:

gee.jpg?VersionId=GP3NFmXEn7rYfxVKcHqmrL6i YbelDG Hardline Tasmania 2025 S.200-1003 1  1DG Hardline Tasmania 2025 S.200-1004 1DG Hardline Tasmania 2025 S.200-1006
17
29
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232
Joined
3/9/2020
Location
AT
2/4/2025 9:34am

if you want a laugh, here’s the bronco ebike. Apparently the motocross-style saddle is awesome for exploring long trails where you can make the most of the 60 mile range. just in case you want your balls to fall off.


 


 

10
2
2/4/2025 9:37am
29 wrote:
if you want a laugh, here’s the bronco ebike. Apparently the motocross-style saddle is awesome for exploring long trails where you can make the most of...

if you want a laugh, here’s the bronco ebike. Apparently the motocross-style saddle is awesome for exploring long trails where you can make the most of the 60 mile range. just in case you want your balls to fall off.


 


 

"The bike design for the person who would drive their bike out to a trailhead to pose for a photo on the hood of their small suv." - Henry Ford

26
Dasf
Posts
2
Joined
1/25/2025
Location
Berlin, AR US
2/4/2025 9:45am Edited Date/Time 2/4/2025 9:45am
sspomer wrote:
vital's pivot trailcat featurehttps://www.vitalmtb.com/features/first-ride-pivots-all-new-trailcat-sl-trailcat-lt

Any rumors about a new/updated Firebird?

...asking for a friend...

3
sspomer
Posts
6099
Joined
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Location
Boise, ID US
2/4/2025 9:50am Edited Date/Time 2/4/2025 9:50am

@Dasf, haven't heard, but who knows what the lurking insiders here may know

5
jazza_wil
Posts
87
Joined
5/10/2011
Location
whistler, BC CA
2/4/2025 11:03am Edited Date/Time 2/4/2025 11:12am
Nicolas M. wrote:

Looks like Bernard Kerr snapped his Phoenix frame at Hardline off the board cliff drop...

https://youtu.be/5Zi87e4V5UA?t=1193

Looks permanently bottomed out all the way around the berm. Maybe a shock bolt or something but something looks funky with the rear end 

IMG 0221 0
14
chriskief
Posts
736
Joined
4/15/2017
Location
New York, NY US
2/4/2025 11:07am
Nicolas M. wrote:

Looks like Bernard Kerr snapped his Phoenix frame at Hardline off the board cliff drop...

https://youtu.be/5Zi87e4V5UA?t=1193

jazza_wil wrote:
Looks permanently bottomed out all the way around the berm. Maybe a shock bolt or something but something looks funky with the rear end 

Looks permanently bottomed out all the way around the berm. Maybe a shock bolt or something but something looks funky with the rear end 

IMG 0221 0

Drive side seat stay appears to have let go.

30
Primoz
Posts
4555
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
2/4/2025 11:08am

Blown shock maybe? Is he running air or coil?

2/4/2025 11:11am
IMG 5457.jpeg?VersionId=7ZJhfvJRsRzKqD2JtdMP 5WSE3gk
13
2/4/2025 11:16am

There's an edit in the middle of Neko saying "glad it wasn't mine" or something like that.

Damn.

I wonder if they have a spare...

8
Etney
Posts
113
Joined
12/23/2024
Location
Frankfurt DE
2/4/2025 11:17am
chriskief wrote:

Drive side seat stay appears to have let go.

Yeah, sure looks like it snapped in half. 

 

Should probably not look like this
06df5aa002fe65c643e81fc450ab58c8

19
TEAMROBOT
Posts
1390
Joined
9/2/2009
Location
Los Angeles, CA US
2/4/2025 11:18am
iceman2058 wrote:

'SPRUNG' mass if we're talking about the stanchions... 😉 ( /<pedantic mode> )

Thank you, my bad.

In my defense, I got up REALLY early today and hadn't had coffee yet.

3
veefour
Posts
852
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7/31/2016
Location
Cinderford GB
2/4/2025 11:22am

There's an edit in the middle of Neko saying "glad it wasn't mine" or something like that.

Damn.

I wonder if they have a spare...

At the start of his track walk video BK and Barney both have bike boxes at the airport, there's also more footage of BK riding later in Moi Moi's vlog, so it looks like it.

5
thresh
Posts
114
Joined
10/18/2023
Location
San Jose, CA US
2/4/2025 11:23am
chriskief wrote:

Drive side seat stay appears to have let go.

Etney wrote:
Yeah, sure looks like it snapped in half.  Should probably not look like this

Yeah, sure looks like it snapped in half. 

 

Should probably not look like this
06df5aa002fe65c643e81fc450ab58c8

Shock looks dusty at https://youtu.be/smvc8h3F47Q?t=1134


But the chainstay is dusty too…

thresh
Posts
114
Joined
10/18/2023
Location
San Jose, CA US
2/4/2025 11:25am

Maybe it’s a different bike and thus they adjust the fork pressure for athlete liking

chriskief
Posts
736
Joined
4/15/2017
Location
New York, NY US
2/4/2025 11:35am
chriskief wrote:

Drive side seat stay appears to have let go.

Etney wrote:
Yeah, sure looks like it snapped in half.  Should probably not look like this

Yeah, sure looks like it snapped in half. 

 

Should probably not look like this
06df5aa002fe65c643e81fc450ab58c8

Maybe instead of strapping weights to the frame to make it heavier, they should add a bit more carbon?

Curious to see if Pivot is as forthcoming about this failure as they were the prototype. Especially now that they've released this bike to the public.

21
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