MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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11/9/2024 9:35pm Edited Date/Time 11/9/2024 9:36pm
cmaac wrote:
Any idea when these are dropping?

Any idea when these are dropping?

IMG 3163.jpeg?VersionId=93Phn3pD5G14uA24sOfbbnkDoYREH1

Have to be quite close to release now, saw them on Danny Hart's Fury at the beginning of the season. Those also look very well polished and ready for launch. Haven't heard any actual news on them though.

EDIT: Minnear also may have said something about these releasing at some point soon on the new PB Podcast ep, can't be sure tho

2
Evil96
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11/9/2024 9:58pm
cmaac wrote:
Any idea when these are dropping?

Any idea when these are dropping?

IMG 3163.jpeg?VersionId=93Phn3pD5G14uA24sOfbbnkDoYREH1

according to the latest podcast from the red site "Soon"

1
1
Fred_Pop
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11/10/2024 2:42am

https://www.rflo-xa.com/collections/front-forks/products/rfloxa-hawk31pro-fcg31rvp-pro-228mm-travel-front-fork-for-surron-talaria-sting-light-bee-eride-pro-ss-spring-preload-high-and-low-speed

Came across this on youtube. Made for Surrons but compatible with DH bikes. Price seems nice for the features it provides. I'd love to try a 228mm USD DH fork. Weight is probably over 4kg but whatever. Not quite sure what they mean by center distance as it seems way longer than fork height. Only problem I see is figuring out what spring rate to get.

 

https://www.rflo-xa.com/collections/rear-shocks/products/rfloxa-rab53rv-rear-shock-for-surron-talaria-sting-light-bee

Their high end rear shock also looks sweet for the price. Even comes in 240x76mm which is what I run on my bike. 

2
boozed
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11/10/2024 3:55am Edited Date/Time 11/10/2024 3:56am
Fred_Pop wrote:
https://www.rflo-xa.com/collections/front-forks/products/rfloxa-hawk31pro-fcg31rvp-pro-228mm-travel-front-fork-for-surron-talaria-sting-light-bee-eride-pro-ss-spring-preload-high-and-low-speedCame across this on youtube. Made for Surrons but compatible with DH bikes. Price seems nice for the features it provides. I'd love to try...

https://www.rflo-xa.com/collections/front-forks/products/rfloxa-hawk31pro-fcg31rvp-pro-228mm-travel-front-fork-for-surron-talaria-sting-light-bee-eride-pro-ss-spring-preload-high-and-low-speed

Came across this on youtube. Made for Surrons but compatible with DH bikes. Price seems nice for the features it provides. I'd love to try a 228mm USD DH fork. Weight is probably over 4kg but whatever. Not quite sure what they mean by center distance as it seems way longer than fork height. Only problem I see is figuring out what spring rate to get.

 

https://www.rflo-xa.com/collections/rear-shocks/products/rfloxa-rab53rv-rear-shock-for-surron-talaria-sting-light-bee

Their high end rear shock also looks sweet for the price. Even comes in 240x76mm which is what I run on my bike. 

It's lucky the shock has "rear shock" written on it, someone could have got hurt otherwise...

No idea what "center distance" is supposed to mean.  The closest measurement I can think of is front centre but that would limit it to pretty small modern frames (my XL frame with a 180 mm fork has an 880 mm front centre) so who knows.

gibbon
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wales GB
11/10/2024 4:33am

Should be called Hawk2a

11
6
MauiMax
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Lahaina, HI US
11/10/2024 9:55am
Fred_Pop wrote:
https://www.rflo-xa.com/collections/front-forks/products/rfloxa-hawk31pro-fcg31rvp-pro-228mm-travel-front-fork-for-surron-talaria-sting-light-bee-eride-pro-ss-spring-preload-high-and-low-speedCame across this on youtube. Made for Surrons but compatible with DH bikes. Price seems nice for the features it provides. I'd love to try...

https://www.rflo-xa.com/collections/front-forks/products/rfloxa-hawk31pro-fcg31rvp-pro-228mm-travel-front-fork-for-surron-talaria-sting-light-bee-eride-pro-ss-spring-preload-high-and-low-speed

Came across this on youtube. Made for Surrons but compatible with DH bikes. Price seems nice for the features it provides. I'd love to try a 228mm USD DH fork. Weight is probably over 4kg but whatever. Not quite sure what they mean by center distance as it seems way longer than fork height. Only problem I see is figuring out what spring rate to get.

 

https://www.rflo-xa.com/collections/rear-shocks/products/rfloxa-rab53rv-rear-shock-for-surron-talaria-sting-light-bee

Their high end rear shock also looks sweet for the price. Even comes in 240x76mm which is what I run on my bike. 

Im curious if youd have any clearance for a 29er in the front or if your gonna smash your wheel into that bottom crown when you bottom out. They have a 203mm version as well with a progressive spring. 

1
11/10/2024 10:07am

For all the people questioning why front 27.5 dying it’s simply a question of the direction the major parts suppliers commited to heading.  Simply they want to commit to 27.5 front for kids market only.  Meaning they only need to produce 29 front wheels/forks for the adult market. And while I fully expect brands to design frames to accept 29er forks with 27.5 wheels as the stock setup in adult sizes in conservative production runs in the future.   The vast majority of bike brands had already committed to 29 front before manufacturers started telling them they were going to wind down availability.  And I’d imagine if tire buzz wasn’t such an issue for such a large portion of riders the parts manufacturers would be pushing more brands to commit to full 29 across sizes. But luckily enough riders are demanding the smaller rear wheel that frame builders and part suppliers see the mullet option as indispensable.


27.5 wheel in 29er fork works just fine.  Might even be preferable to a 27.5 in a 27.5 if you like the extra axle to crown.  But assuming you are putting a 27.5 wheel in front to improve maneuverability at the cost of braking/rolling speed rather than that’s the wheel you have then the shorter axle to crown for travel and reduced offset of a dedicated 27.5 fork is going to increase that maneuverability further.

2
3
MauiMax
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11/10/2024 10:18am
For all the people questioning why front 27.5 dying it’s simply a question of the direction the major parts suppliers commited to heading.  Simply they want...

For all the people questioning why front 27.5 dying it’s simply a question of the direction the major parts suppliers commited to heading.  Simply they want to commit to 27.5 front for kids market only.  Meaning they only need to produce 29 front wheels/forks for the adult market. And while I fully expect brands to design frames to accept 29er forks with 27.5 wheels as the stock setup in adult sizes in conservative production runs in the future.   The vast majority of bike brands had already committed to 29 front before manufacturers started telling them they were going to wind down availability.  And I’d imagine if tire buzz wasn’t such an issue for such a large portion of riders the parts manufacturers would be pushing more brands to commit to full 29 across sizes. But luckily enough riders are demanding the smaller rear wheel that frame builders and part suppliers see the mullet option as indispensable.


27.5 wheel in 29er fork works just fine.  Might even be preferable to a 27.5 in a 27.5 if you like the extra axle to crown.  But assuming you are putting a 27.5 wheel in front to improve maneuverability at the cost of braking/rolling speed rather than that’s the wheel you have then the shorter axle to crown for travel and reduced offset of a dedicated 27.5 fork is going to increase that maneuverability further.

I think it also probably also has alot to do with what the racers are riding. Racing seems to get more exposure then freeride so its better marketing. Dont get me wrong, there are still alot of people who want full 27.5 but alot of people are going to by mullet just because its what (insert favorite pro racer name here) is riding

2
1
Fred_Pop
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11/10/2024 11:39am
Fred_Pop wrote:
https://www.rflo-xa.com/collections/front-forks/products/rfloxa-hawk31pro-fcg31rvp-pro-228mm-travel-front-fork-for-surron-talaria-sting-light-bee-eride-pro-ss-spring-preload-high-and-low-speedCame across this on youtube. Made for Surrons but compatible with DH bikes. Price seems nice for the features it provides. I'd love to try...

https://www.rflo-xa.com/collections/front-forks/products/rfloxa-hawk31pro-fcg31rvp-pro-228mm-travel-front-fork-for-surron-talaria-sting-light-bee-eride-pro-ss-spring-preload-high-and-low-speed

Came across this on youtube. Made for Surrons but compatible with DH bikes. Price seems nice for the features it provides. I'd love to try a 228mm USD DH fork. Weight is probably over 4kg but whatever. Not quite sure what they mean by center distance as it seems way longer than fork height. Only problem I see is figuring out what spring rate to get.

 

https://www.rflo-xa.com/collections/rear-shocks/products/rfloxa-rab53rv-rear-shock-for-surron-talaria-sting-light-bee

Their high end rear shock also looks sweet for the price. Even comes in 240x76mm which is what I run on my bike. 

MauiMax wrote:
Im curious if youd have any clearance for a 29er in the front or if your gonna smash your wheel into that bottom crown when you...

Im curious if youd have any clearance for a 29er in the front or if your gonna smash your wheel into that bottom crown when you bottom out. They have a 203mm version as well with a progressive spring. 

The 228mm travel fork is supposed to be compatible with bigger wheels whereas the 203mm one is only for smaller 559mm (26in) wheels

2
TEAMROBOT
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Fantasy
11/10/2024 12:06pm Edited Date/Time 11/10/2024 12:11pm
Fred_Pop wrote:
https://www.rflo-xa.com/collections/front-forks/products/rfloxa-hawk31pro-fcg31rvp-pro-228mm-travel-front-fork-for-surron-talaria-sting-light-bee-eride-pro-ss-spring-preload-high-and-low-speedCame across this on youtube. Made for Surrons but compatible with DH bikes. Price seems nice for the features it provides. I'd love to try...

https://www.rflo-xa.com/collections/front-forks/products/rfloxa-hawk31pro-fcg31rvp-pro-228mm-travel-front-fork-for-surron-talaria-sting-light-bee-eride-pro-ss-spring-preload-high-and-low-speed

Came across this on youtube. Made for Surrons but compatible with DH bikes. Price seems nice for the features it provides. I'd love to try a 228mm USD DH fork. Weight is probably over 4kg but whatever. Not quite sure what they mean by center distance as it seems way longer than fork height. Only problem I see is figuring out what spring rate to get.

 

https://www.rflo-xa.com/collections/rear-shocks/products/rfloxa-rab53rv-rear-shock-for-surron-talaria-sting-light-bee

Their high end rear shock also looks sweet for the price. Even comes in 240x76mm which is what I run on my bike. 

No offense, but my hunch is that a $900 no-name dual crown for Surrons probably rides like a $900 no-name dual crown for Surrons. If you want to jump on that grenade to find out for the rest of us, I salute you, but I don't imagine RFloXa is killing themselves to sort out the finer points of suspension dynamics for the mostly beginner, mostly pavement-pounder Surron market in the same way that Fox, RS, EXT, or others in the high-end MTB space do.

34
MauiMax
Posts
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Lahaina, HI US
11/10/2024 1:32pm
Fred_Pop wrote:
https://www.rflo-xa.com/collections/front-forks/products/rfloxa-hawk31pro-fcg31rvp-pro-228mm-travel-front-fork-for-surron-talaria-sting-light-bee-eride-pro-ss-spring-preload-high-and-low-speedCame across this on youtube. Made for Surrons but compatible with DH bikes. Price seems nice for the features it provides. I'd love to try...

https://www.rflo-xa.com/collections/front-forks/products/rfloxa-hawk31pro-fcg31rvp-pro-228mm-travel-front-fork-for-surron-talaria-sting-light-bee-eride-pro-ss-spring-preload-high-and-low-speed

Came across this on youtube. Made for Surrons but compatible with DH bikes. Price seems nice for the features it provides. I'd love to try a 228mm USD DH fork. Weight is probably over 4kg but whatever. Not quite sure what they mean by center distance as it seems way longer than fork height. Only problem I see is figuring out what spring rate to get.

 

https://www.rflo-xa.com/collections/rear-shocks/products/rfloxa-rab53rv-rear-shock-for-surron-talaria-sting-light-bee

Their high end rear shock also looks sweet for the price. Even comes in 240x76mm which is what I run on my bike. 

TEAMROBOT wrote:
No offense, but my hunch is that a $900 no-name dual crown for Surrons probably rides like a $900 no-name dual crown for Surrons. If you...

No offense, but my hunch is that a $900 no-name dual crown for Surrons probably rides like a $900 no-name dual crown for Surrons. If you want to jump on that grenade to find out for the rest of us, I salute you, but I don't imagine RFloXa is killing themselves to sort out the finer points of suspension dynamics for the mostly beginner, mostly pavement-pounder Surron market in the same way that Fox, RS, EXT, or others in the high-end MTB space do.

But more travel = better right?

3
11/10/2024 2:22pm
LePigPen wrote:
Don't wanna make a new thread, but did want to ask just for fun. Which dual 27 model is next on the chopping block? SB140? Shadowcat...

Don't wanna make a new thread, but did want to ask just for fun. Which dual 27 model is next on the chopping block? SB140? Shadowcat? Or maybe just a more obscure model/brand?

With the official death of the Scout, it's interesting to watch them drop like flies. It's kinda like NHLers still allowed to play without a visor. There's like 5 or less left. Slowly but surely lol

Evil96 wrote:

sb140 27.5 got replaced by the 135, nothing new coming

Zink Bikes is dropping a new 27.5” model, I have no clue on geo and specs but this is what I’ve gleamed from ocbikeworks on Insta...

Zink Bikes is dropping a new 27.5” model, I have no clue on geo and specs but this is what I’ve gleamed from ocbikeworks on Insta so far. “150 travel and it’s possible to run 26” in the back, but all the material shared with us suggests it’s meant for 27.5 without any mods. $1650 retail for the frame.”  And like all shops they hook up the discount on parts to build it up.  Has me intrigued for sure. 

0593B6DD-C65A-4C92-B8EC-9CBFEF26E0A2

I cannot wait for this.  This is what we need 

1
boozed
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11/10/2024 3:18pm
Fred_Pop wrote:
https://www.rflo-xa.com/collections/front-forks/products/rfloxa-hawk31pro-fcg31rvp-pro-228mm-travel-front-fork-for-surron-talaria-sting-light-bee-eride-pro-ss-spring-preload-high-and-low-speedCame across this on youtube. Made for Surrons but compatible with DH bikes. Price seems nice for the features it provides. I'd love to try...

https://www.rflo-xa.com/collections/front-forks/products/rfloxa-hawk31pro-fcg31rvp-pro-228mm-travel-front-fork-for-surron-talaria-sting-light-bee-eride-pro-ss-spring-preload-high-and-low-speed

Came across this on youtube. Made for Surrons but compatible with DH bikes. Price seems nice for the features it provides. I'd love to try a 228mm USD DH fork. Weight is probably over 4kg but whatever. Not quite sure what they mean by center distance as it seems way longer than fork height. Only problem I see is figuring out what spring rate to get.

 

https://www.rflo-xa.com/collections/rear-shocks/products/rfloxa-rab53rv-rear-shock-for-surron-talaria-sting-light-bee

Their high end rear shock also looks sweet for the price. Even comes in 240x76mm which is what I run on my bike. 

TEAMROBOT wrote:
No offense, but my hunch is that a $900 no-name dual crown for Surrons probably rides like a $900 no-name dual crown for Surrons. If you...

No offense, but my hunch is that a $900 no-name dual crown for Surrons probably rides like a $900 no-name dual crown for Surrons. If you want to jump on that grenade to find out for the rest of us, I salute you, but I don't imagine RFloXa is killing themselves to sort out the finer points of suspension dynamics for the mostly beginner, mostly pavement-pounder Surron market in the same way that Fox, RS, EXT, or others in the high-end MTB space do.

The first thing I did was scroll to the bottom of the page to find out where the company's based.  Your first guess is correct.

1
11/10/2024 6:54pm
Fred_Pop wrote:
https://www.rflo-xa.com/collections/front-forks/products/rfloxa-hawk31pro-fcg31rvp-pro-228mm-travel-front-fork-for-surron-talaria-sting-light-bee-eride-pro-ss-spring-preload-high-and-low-speedCame across this on youtube. Made for Surrons but compatible with DH bikes. Price seems nice for the features it provides. I'd love to try...

https://www.rflo-xa.com/collections/front-forks/products/rfloxa-hawk31pro-fcg31rvp-pro-228mm-travel-front-fork-for-surron-talaria-sting-light-bee-eride-pro-ss-spring-preload-high-and-low-speed

Came across this on youtube. Made for Surrons but compatible with DH bikes. Price seems nice for the features it provides. I'd love to try a 228mm USD DH fork. Weight is probably over 4kg but whatever. Not quite sure what they mean by center distance as it seems way longer than fork height. Only problem I see is figuring out what spring rate to get.

 

https://www.rflo-xa.com/collections/rear-shocks/products/rfloxa-rab53rv-rear-shock-for-surron-talaria-sting-light-bee

Their high end rear shock also looks sweet for the price. Even comes in 240x76mm which is what I run on my bike. 

That website is pure GOLD 

"where recoil meets luxury"

"Use Youtube influencers code to get what you want! (PS:RFloXa  /ˈriːˌfloˌsɑː/)" -The phonetic spelling there seems to make it less clear how to say the name but will we see a wave of people running them on instagram and youtube soon?

5
11/10/2024 9:50pm Edited Date/Time 11/10/2024 9:50pm
For all the people questioning why front 27.5 dying it’s simply a question of the direction the major parts suppliers commited to heading.  Simply they want...

For all the people questioning why front 27.5 dying it’s simply a question of the direction the major parts suppliers commited to heading.  Simply they want to commit to 27.5 front for kids market only.  Meaning they only need to produce 29 front wheels/forks for the adult market. And while I fully expect brands to design frames to accept 29er forks with 27.5 wheels as the stock setup in adult sizes in conservative production runs in the future.   The vast majority of bike brands had already committed to 29 front before manufacturers started telling them they were going to wind down availability.  And I’d imagine if tire buzz wasn’t such an issue for such a large portion of riders the parts manufacturers would be pushing more brands to commit to full 29 across sizes. But luckily enough riders are demanding the smaller rear wheel that frame builders and part suppliers see the mullet option as indispensable.


27.5 wheel in 29er fork works just fine.  Might even be preferable to a 27.5 in a 27.5 if you like the extra axle to crown.  But assuming you are putting a 27.5 wheel in front to improve maneuverability at the cost of braking/rolling speed rather than that’s the wheel you have then the shorter axle to crown for travel and reduced offset of a dedicated 27.5 fork is going to increase that maneuverability further.

MauiMax wrote:
I think it also probably also has alot to do with what the racers are riding. Racing seems to get more exposure then freeride so its...

I think it also probably also has alot to do with what the racers are riding. Racing seems to get more exposure then freeride so its better marketing. Dont get me wrong, there are still alot of people who want full 27.5 but alot of people are going to by mullet just because its what (insert favorite pro racer name here) is riding

It could also be that 29ers are retty dang good these days... But I digress. 

Now for an actual rumor. Sounds like Sram is dropping DOT fluid brakes due to EU regulations.

 I wonder how/if at all this will affect other brands like hope, who continue to use DOT for their fluid. 

6
boozed
Posts
662
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Location
AU
11/10/2024 10:47pm
For all the people questioning why front 27.5 dying it’s simply a question of the direction the major parts suppliers commited to heading.  Simply they want...

For all the people questioning why front 27.5 dying it’s simply a question of the direction the major parts suppliers commited to heading.  Simply they want to commit to 27.5 front for kids market only.  Meaning they only need to produce 29 front wheels/forks for the adult market. And while I fully expect brands to design frames to accept 29er forks with 27.5 wheels as the stock setup in adult sizes in conservative production runs in the future.   The vast majority of bike brands had already committed to 29 front before manufacturers started telling them they were going to wind down availability.  And I’d imagine if tire buzz wasn’t such an issue for such a large portion of riders the parts manufacturers would be pushing more brands to commit to full 29 across sizes. But luckily enough riders are demanding the smaller rear wheel that frame builders and part suppliers see the mullet option as indispensable.


27.5 wheel in 29er fork works just fine.  Might even be preferable to a 27.5 in a 27.5 if you like the extra axle to crown.  But assuming you are putting a 27.5 wheel in front to improve maneuverability at the cost of braking/rolling speed rather than that’s the wheel you have then the shorter axle to crown for travel and reduced offset of a dedicated 27.5 fork is going to increase that maneuverability further.

MauiMax wrote:
I think it also probably also has alot to do with what the racers are riding. Racing seems to get more exposure then freeride so its...

I think it also probably also has alot to do with what the racers are riding. Racing seems to get more exposure then freeride so its better marketing. Dont get me wrong, there are still alot of people who want full 27.5 but alot of people are going to by mullet just because its what (insert favorite pro racer name here) is riding

It could also be that 29ers are retty dang good these days... But I digress. Now for an actual rumor. Sounds like Sram is dropping DOT fluid...

It could also be that 29ers are retty dang good these days... But I digress. 

Now for an actual rumor. Sounds like Sram is dropping DOT fluid brakes due to EU regulations.

 I wonder how/if at all this will affect other brands like hope, who continue to use DOT for their fluid. 

What's the regulation?

1
Primoz
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SI
11/11/2024 12:15am

I want to know this too. And does it apply to cars too? Surely if there's an exemption for cars, there can be a (safety related) exemption for bikes too? 

3
sethimus
Posts
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CH
11/11/2024 3:41am
For all the people questioning why front 27.5 dying it’s simply a question of the direction the major parts suppliers commited to heading.  Simply they want...

For all the people questioning why front 27.5 dying it’s simply a question of the direction the major parts suppliers commited to heading.  Simply they want to commit to 27.5 front for kids market only.  Meaning they only need to produce 29 front wheels/forks for the adult market. And while I fully expect brands to design frames to accept 29er forks with 27.5 wheels as the stock setup in adult sizes in conservative production runs in the future.   The vast majority of bike brands had already committed to 29 front before manufacturers started telling them they were going to wind down availability.  And I’d imagine if tire buzz wasn’t such an issue for such a large portion of riders the parts manufacturers would be pushing more brands to commit to full 29 across sizes. But luckily enough riders are demanding the smaller rear wheel that frame builders and part suppliers see the mullet option as indispensable.


27.5 wheel in 29er fork works just fine.  Might even be preferable to a 27.5 in a 27.5 if you like the extra axle to crown.  But assuming you are putting a 27.5 wheel in front to improve maneuverability at the cost of braking/rolling speed rather than that’s the wheel you have then the shorter axle to crown for travel and reduced offset of a dedicated 27.5 fork is going to increase that maneuverability further.

MauiMax wrote:
I think it also probably also has alot to do with what the racers are riding. Racing seems to get more exposure then freeride so its...

I think it also probably also has alot to do with what the racers are riding. Racing seems to get more exposure then freeride so its better marketing. Dont get me wrong, there are still alot of people who want full 27.5 but alot of people are going to by mullet just because its what (insert favorite pro racer name here) is riding

It could also be that 29ers are retty dang good these days... But I digress. Now for an actual rumor. Sounds like Sram is dropping DOT fluid...

It could also be that 29ers are retty dang good these days... But I digress. 

Now for an actual rumor. Sounds like Sram is dropping DOT fluid brakes due to EU regulations.

 I wonder how/if at all this will affect other brands like hope, who continue to use DOT for their fluid. 

i‘m saying this for 3 years now, not really news anymore

9
TimBud
Posts
533
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GB
11/11/2024 7:18am
Primoz wrote:
I want to know this too. And does it apply to cars too? Surely if there's an exemption for cars, there can be a (safety related)...

I want to know this too. And does it apply to cars too? Surely if there's an exemption for cars, there can be a (safety related) exemption for bikes too? 

It's being pushed by manufacturers (at bike assembly stage) who are trying to minimise damage to bikes because as DOT 4/5.1 can be very damaging to paint and anodising if not noticed/cleaned. Mineral oils (used by the bike industry) are less damaging. And of course there's worker safety too. 

I heard about this being talked about in Magura at least 3 years ago. So I guess it's finally making its way through the process of becoming a "law".

 

I'd imagine automotive will be exempt because they have a more mechanised assembly process so can get brake systems filled and tested by non-humans.

5
11/11/2024 7:31am

Honestly I'm not sure what the actual regulation is... Or if its some kind of duty for hazardous waste/something along those lines. I just happened to hear this from multiple sources in relation to some new product offerings from Sram, and was curious if someone in the region knew more regarding any regulatory changes.

I've had lots of experience dealing with tightening restrictions for waste/hazardous materials in electronics for another industry, so it tracks for the EU to be limiting hazardous materials where it can. These electrical restrictions have exemptions for industrial/automotive purposes, so I doubt cars will be giving up DOT anytime soon.

 

1
monarchmason
Posts
291
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5/24/2022
Location
Nevada City, CA US
11/11/2024 7:59am

Okay Im out of the loop with this kind of stuff with brakes. Is there a big deal to Sram not using DOT and transitioning to mineral oil? I dont service my own brakes because I do not have the setup for it since I switch bikes. So Ive never really invested into the deep knowledge. All I know is DOT can be rough on surfaces and health as someone mentioned before. 

1
1
Primoz
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SI
11/11/2024 8:16am

DOT fluid is a paint thinner but is not particularly toxic to humans. I mean, it is if you drink it and can be irritating for the skin after prolonged exposure, but it's nothing wearing gloves doesn't remedy. Otherwise it is more or less completely deactivated by just spraying it with water as opposed to mineral oil which is not water solluble.

Based on the comments as to why Sram was pushed to move to mineral oil vs. DOT fluid, looks like it's mostly the paint that is the issue...

8
Eae903
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10/20/2023
Location
Laramie, WY US
Fantasy
11/11/2024 8:31am Edited Date/Time 11/11/2024 8:33am
Primoz wrote:
DOT fluid is a paint thinner but is not particularly toxic to humans. I mean, it is if you drink it and can be irritating for...

DOT fluid is a paint thinner but is not particularly toxic to humans. I mean, it is if you drink it and can be irritating for the skin after prolonged exposure, but it's nothing wearing gloves doesn't remedy. Otherwise it is more or less completely deactivated by just spraying it with water as opposed to mineral oil which is not water solluble.

Based on the comments as to why Sram was pushed to move to mineral oil vs. DOT fluid, looks like it's mostly the paint that is the issue...

Having had a shop replace my sram brakes with some maguras before and them not wiping the spilled dot fluid off the frame, the paint issue is real. It totally ate my frames finish away. On the other hand, it's not a super good reason to move away from it entirely. I honestly like dot fluid, and I think dot fluid brakes remain more consistent in wet areas because it mixes with the water. Sure it reduces the boiling point a bit, but it's consistently reduced across the whole system, unlike with mineral oil where you'll have water in the line with one boiling point and mineral oil with a different one. Brakes get hot, water turns to steam, becomes compressible, spongy brakes. Bleed your brakes regularly and there are no issues with either fluid so it's all moot anyways. The real question is "Dot 4 or dot 5.1?"

2
Nobble
Posts
226
Joined
9/24/2010
Location
Lakewood, CO US
11/11/2024 9:45am
Primoz wrote:
DOT fluid is a paint thinner but is not particularly toxic to humans. I mean, it is if you drink it and can be irritating for...

DOT fluid is a paint thinner but is not particularly toxic to humans. I mean, it is if you drink it and can be irritating for the skin after prolonged exposure, but it's nothing wearing gloves doesn't remedy. Otherwise it is more or less completely deactivated by just spraying it with water as opposed to mineral oil which is not water solluble.

Based on the comments as to why Sram was pushed to move to mineral oil vs. DOT fluid, looks like it's mostly the paint that is the issue...

Eae903 wrote:
Having had a shop replace my sram brakes with some maguras before and them not wiping the spilled dot fluid off the frame, the paint issue...

Having had a shop replace my sram brakes with some maguras before and them not wiping the spilled dot fluid off the frame, the paint issue is real. It totally ate my frames finish away. On the other hand, it's not a super good reason to move away from it entirely. I honestly like dot fluid, and I think dot fluid brakes remain more consistent in wet areas because it mixes with the water. Sure it reduces the boiling point a bit, but it's consistently reduced across the whole system, unlike with mineral oil where you'll have water in the line with one boiling point and mineral oil with a different one. Brakes get hot, water turns to steam, becomes compressible, spongy brakes. Bleed your brakes regularly and there are no issues with either fluid so it's all moot anyways. The real question is "Dot 4 or dot 5.1?"

Dot 5.1 has a slightly better minimum spec than dot 4, but once you get into high performance fluids it really doesn’t matter.


For example, the minimum “wet” boiling point for dot 4 and 5.1 is 311 or 356 Fahrenheit respectively.

Redline RF-600 dot 4 has a wet boiling point of 400f.

Wilwood XR race dot 5.1 has a wet boiling point of 432f.
 

Dry boiling points for both are over 600f. Higher than any mineral oil I’m aware of.

11/11/2024 10:27am
Primoz wrote:
DOT fluid is a paint thinner but is not particularly toxic to humans. I mean, it is if you drink it and can be irritating for...

DOT fluid is a paint thinner but is not particularly toxic to humans. I mean, it is if you drink it and can be irritating for the skin after prolonged exposure, but it's nothing wearing gloves doesn't remedy. Otherwise it is more or less completely deactivated by just spraying it with water as opposed to mineral oil which is not water solluble.

Based on the comments as to why Sram was pushed to move to mineral oil vs. DOT fluid, looks like it's mostly the paint that is the issue...

Eae903 wrote:
Having had a shop replace my sram brakes with some maguras before and them not wiping the spilled dot fluid off the frame, the paint issue...

Having had a shop replace my sram brakes with some maguras before and them not wiping the spilled dot fluid off the frame, the paint issue is real. It totally ate my frames finish away. On the other hand, it's not a super good reason to move away from it entirely. I honestly like dot fluid, and I think dot fluid brakes remain more consistent in wet areas because it mixes with the water. Sure it reduces the boiling point a bit, but it's consistently reduced across the whole system, unlike with mineral oil where you'll have water in the line with one boiling point and mineral oil with a different one. Brakes get hot, water turns to steam, becomes compressible, spongy brakes. Bleed your brakes regularly and there are no issues with either fluid so it's all moot anyways. The real question is "Dot 4 or dot 5.1?"

Nobble wrote:
Dot 5.1 has a slightly better minimum spec than dot 4, but once you get into high performance fluids it really doesn’t matter.For example, the minimum...

Dot 5.1 has a slightly better minimum spec than dot 4, but once you get into high performance fluids it really doesn’t matter.


For example, the minimum “wet” boiling point for dot 4 and 5.1 is 311 or 356 Fahrenheit respectively.

Redline RF-600 dot 4 has a wet boiling point of 400f.

Wilwood XR race dot 5.1 has a wet boiling point of 432f.
 

Dry boiling points for both are over 600f. Higher than any mineral oil I’m aware of.

Is it a real issue for Mtb tho ? I boil my pads and discs at will, yet I haven't had any issues with fluid boiling and having me pump the lever. Maybe if I could find a pad/disc combo that I am unable to boil and have them fade, but then tue system would probably not je hot enough to boil the fluid in my calipers. That's my experience riding mineral fluid brakes for the last 10 years or so, usually bled with some Ferodo LHM+ bought more than 10 years ago lol.

Primoz
Posts
4556
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
11/11/2024 11:08am

There have been numerous report where mixing and matching mineral oils between manufacturers caused some changes in the seals. Maybe not structural, but something was happening. And all manufacturers state their brakes can only be used with such and such brake oil.

Any DOT x fluid can be put in any DOT x compatible brake. You can get the correct fluid in any local automotive parts shop, unlike mineral oil for a finnicky brake if it's too esoteric.

4
11/11/2024 11:18am
Primoz wrote:
DOT fluid is a paint thinner but is not particularly toxic to humans. I mean, it is if you drink it and can be irritating for...

DOT fluid is a paint thinner but is not particularly toxic to humans. I mean, it is if you drink it and can be irritating for the skin after prolonged exposure, but it's nothing wearing gloves doesn't remedy. Otherwise it is more or less completely deactivated by just spraying it with water as opposed to mineral oil which is not water solluble.

Based on the comments as to why Sram was pushed to move to mineral oil vs. DOT fluid, looks like it's mostly the paint that is the issue...

Eae903 wrote:
Having had a shop replace my sram brakes with some maguras before and them not wiping the spilled dot fluid off the frame, the paint issue...

Having had a shop replace my sram brakes with some maguras before and them not wiping the spilled dot fluid off the frame, the paint issue is real. It totally ate my frames finish away. On the other hand, it's not a super good reason to move away from it entirely. I honestly like dot fluid, and I think dot fluid brakes remain more consistent in wet areas because it mixes with the water. Sure it reduces the boiling point a bit, but it's consistently reduced across the whole system, unlike with mineral oil where you'll have water in the line with one boiling point and mineral oil with a different one. Brakes get hot, water turns to steam, becomes compressible, spongy brakes. Bleed your brakes regularly and there are no issues with either fluid so it's all moot anyways. The real question is "Dot 4 or dot 5.1?"

Yup, both fluids are about equally bad - I think its just a perception that people think mineral oil is "friendlier" despite being you know, a petroleum product....

So it seems weird to target dot fluid when so much more of it is used in cars and there are far worse materials like PTFE still being used in chain lubes and suspension oil 

10
Eae903
Posts
368
Joined
10/20/2023
Location
Laramie, WY US
Fantasy
11/11/2024 11:20am Edited Date/Time 11/11/2024 11:20am
Primoz wrote:
There have been numerous report where mixing and matching mineral oils between manufacturers caused some changes in the seals. Maybe not structural, but something was happening...

There have been numerous report where mixing and matching mineral oils between manufacturers caused some changes in the seals. Maybe not structural, but something was happening. And all manufacturers state their brakes can only be used with such and such brake oil.

Any DOT x fluid can be put in any DOT x compatible brake. You can get the correct fluid in any local automotive parts shop, unlike mineral oil for a finnicky brake if it's too esoteric.

You can see the differences in the mineral oils between brands too, pour a little out and magura, Shimano, maxima, and finish line oils all have a slightly different viscosity, finish line is the thickest and sram/maxima seems the thinnest to me. TRP/tektro and Shimano are pretty much the same though. I wonder if the different viscosities and frictions are what can cause issues with the seals, premature wear or something like that. I would love to test out running different oils in different brakes to see how the wear changes. 

1
TimBud
Posts
533
Joined
2/29/2012
Location
GB
11/11/2024 11:27am
Primoz wrote:
There have been numerous report where mixing and matching mineral oils between manufacturers caused some changes in the seals. Maybe not structural, but something was happening...

There have been numerous report where mixing and matching mineral oils between manufacturers caused some changes in the seals. Maybe not structural, but something was happening. And all manufacturers state their brakes can only be used with such and such brake oil.

Any DOT x fluid can be put in any DOT x compatible brake. You can get the correct fluid in any local automotive parts shop, unlike mineral oil for a finnicky brake if it's too esoteric.

Oh you DOT fan boys 😆

It is a shame that there is no standard for mineral oils. A “DOT M” would suffice.

I never have found it hard to keep a personal stock of my preferred mineral oil though. And i do like that when you open the bottle it lasts more than 6 months.

I should clarify that whilst i’m a fan of a good quality mineral brake, my last and current brakes are DOT. And they’ve both been good.
 

3
2
sethimus
Posts
879
Joined
9/20/2014
Location
CH
11/11/2024 11:41am
Primoz wrote:
DOT fluid is a paint thinner but is not particularly toxic to humans. I mean, it is if you drink it and can be irritating for...

DOT fluid is a paint thinner but is not particularly toxic to humans. I mean, it is if you drink it and can be irritating for the skin after prolonged exposure, but it's nothing wearing gloves doesn't remedy. Otherwise it is more or less completely deactivated by just spraying it with water as opposed to mineral oil which is not water solluble.

Based on the comments as to why Sram was pushed to move to mineral oil vs. DOT fluid, looks like it's mostly the paint that is the issue...

Eae903 wrote:
Having had a shop replace my sram brakes with some maguras before and them not wiping the spilled dot fluid off the frame, the paint issue...

Having had a shop replace my sram brakes with some maguras before and them not wiping the spilled dot fluid off the frame, the paint issue is real. It totally ate my frames finish away. On the other hand, it's not a super good reason to move away from it entirely. I honestly like dot fluid, and I think dot fluid brakes remain more consistent in wet areas because it mixes with the water. Sure it reduces the boiling point a bit, but it's consistently reduced across the whole system, unlike with mineral oil where you'll have water in the line with one boiling point and mineral oil with a different one. Brakes get hot, water turns to steam, becomes compressible, spongy brakes. Bleed your brakes regularly and there are no issues with either fluid so it's all moot anyways. The real question is "Dot 4 or dot 5.1?"

Yup, both fluids are about equally bad - I think its just a perception that people think mineral oil is "friendlier" despite being you know, a...

Yup, both fluids are about equally bad - I think its just a perception that people think mineral oil is "friendlier" despite being you know, a petroleum product....

So it seems weird to target dot fluid when so much more of it is used in cars and there are far worse materials like PTFE still being used in chain lubes and suspension oil 

that's just plain wrong, there are options:

Trickstuff Bionol Bremsöl 1 Liter für Scheibenbremsen

2
1
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