MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

Related:
10/24/2024 11:10am
Jotegr wrote:

>Bike manufacturers spec 30,000 different headset combinations on frames over the last four decades

>FSA makes something compatible

How dare they!

Havnt owned any mtb that hope doesn’t make a headset for and they make 2 bearings.  Not sure why FSA needs to have so many.  Make...

Havnt owned any mtb that hope doesn’t make a headset for and they make 2 bearings.  Not sure why FSA needs to have so many.  Make finding replacements impossible. 

Zuestman wrote:
We make them because the bike companies request them.  and actually when you start digging into it, we dopnt make a ton of bearings, just combos...

We make them because the bike companies request them.  and actually when you start digging into it, we dopnt make a ton of bearings, just combos with bearings for different uses. and we usually have decent stock for our HS.  feel free to reach out to us directly and we can usually sort a bearing that works (many are cross compatible).  If you have more questions directly related to a HS feel free to DM me.

Thanks I appreciate it but last time I called in somone said you make of 400 different bearings. I just had 3 oem FSA head sets blow up in weeks of use. Same with the crown race. Taken off this cane creek 40 lower about 6 times still is fine. Every time I take off a FSA lower it breaks or bends.  Same with hope. Never had any issues.    Back to rumors…

1
18
NoahColorado
Posts
305
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
Fruita, CO US
Fantasy
2448th
10/24/2024 12:03pm
Who makes a tapered steerer compatible reach adjust ZS56/56? Work components only offers a ZS56 top, EC56 bottom for 1.125x1.5 tapered. They have reach adjusts for...

Who makes a tapered steerer compatible reach adjust ZS56/56? Work components only offers a ZS56 top, EC56 bottom for 1.125x1.5 tapered. They have reach adjusts for ZS56/66 and a ZS56/56 for 1.125 steerers. 

Yeah I had a +5mm reach headset from Works like this (EC44/EC56) and while it technically did extend reach by 5mm, you effectively lose some of that with the added stack from going to EC cups from ZS cups. I guess what it really does is slacken headangle without losing reach (from baseline).

5
10/24/2024 12:04pm
BrambleLee wrote:
Re: upcoming Shimano updates—I’ll be very curious to see whether they follow SRAM’s lead on pushing the cassette outboard for a 55mm chainline. I wish SRAM hadn’t...

Re: upcoming Shimano updates—I’ll be very curious to see whether they follow SRAM’s lead on pushing the cassette outboard for a 55mm chainline. 

I wish SRAM hadn’t done it to begin with, but now that the toothpaste is out of the tube, everyone else kind of needs to do it too, no?

I was speaking with some guys in the sram tent at a crankworx event shortly after transmission was released and they said that it was a request from frame manufacturers to go to 55mm chain line in order to accomodate a wider variety of suspension linkages and rear triangle layouts.

10
SteveClimber
Posts
318
Joined
2/28/2023
Location
Perth, WA AU
Fantasy
2276th
10/24/2024 1:48pm

The Marin Alpine trail XR has a nifty +- angle cups for a budget frame. So it's totally doable even at low cost. 

I really want a Rocky because of the headset adjust meaning you can size it perfectly, just wish it was 6.5k aud and receives mediocre warranty standards in aus. 

4
Eae903
Posts
121
Joined
10/20/2023
Location
Laramie, WY US
10/24/2024 3:19pm

You're all missing the real solution when it comes to headsets and reach / angle adjust. We should just be making bikes that use an EC44/EC56 or EC56/EC56 headset. Simple and easy. 

4
TEAMROBOT
Posts
736
Joined
9/2/2009
Location
Los Angeles, CA US
Fantasy
371st
10/24/2024 3:23pm Edited Date/Time 10/24/2024 5:30pm

Million dollar idea: every frame comes with three headtubes welded in a neat row to the front of it. Users can play around with reach to their heart's content, then use an angle grinder to cut off whichever ones they don't end up using. Or save them all for resale value. Choose your own adventure.

38
noodlenosteeze
Posts
152
Joined
1/12/2023
Location
Magna, UT US
Fantasy
1675th
10/24/2024 3:28pm
TEAMROBOT wrote:
Million dollar idea: every frame comes with three headtubes welded in a neat row to the front of it. Users can play around with reach to...

Million dollar idea: every frame comes with three headtubes welded in a neat row to the front of it. Users can play around with reach to their heart's content, then use an angle grinder to cut off whichever ones they don't end up using. Or save them all for resale value. Choose your own adventure.

Great idea, you can carry 2 extra forks with you in the event that one breaks on your ride too. 

2
dolface
Posts
1216
Joined
10/26/2015
Location
CA US
Fantasy
610th
10/24/2024 4:36pm
TEAMROBOT wrote:
Million dollar idea: every frame comes with three headtubes welded in a neat row to the front of it. Users can play around with reach to...

Million dollar idea: every frame comes with three headtubes welded in a neat row to the front of it. Users can play around with reach to their heart's content, then use an angle grinder to cut off whichever ones they don't end up using. Or save them all for resale value. Choose your own adventure.

Bring back the "spam can" headtube... (I forget which company had one on a test mule)

3
brash
Posts
715
Joined
4/24/2019
Location
AU
10/24/2024 4:42pm
TEAMROBOT wrote:
Million dollar idea: every frame comes with three headtubes welded in a neat row to the front of it. Users can play around with reach to...

Million dollar idea: every frame comes with three headtubes welded in a neat row to the front of it. Users can play around with reach to their heart's content, then use an angle grinder to cut off whichever ones they don't end up using. Or save them all for resale value. Choose your own adventure.

Great idea, you can carry 2 extra forks with you in the event that one breaks on your ride too. 

No shit, when I had my first gen stumpy evo (in my sig) I would take a spare shock in my car because chances are the side loading would kill one. I wore the head on the shock mount bolt out from removing it so much lol

Cane Creek still has a photo of me on their dartboard! 

7
ebruner
Posts
101
Joined
3/29/2018
Location
Tustin, CA US
10/24/2024 4:44pm Edited Date/Time 10/24/2024 4:46pm
kperras wrote:
Just going to leave this here...Rocky Mountain Bicycles is using the FSA system on the carbon Altitude and Instincts, and our own designed (FSA made) ZS56|66...

Just going to leave this here...Rocky Mountain Bicycles is using the FSA system on the carbon Altitude and Instincts, and our own designed (FSA made) ZS56|66 round headsets for the alloy models. 10mm of reach adjust possible. The headset guts are just standard components: bearings, races, top caps, etc.

I hate being that guy... but my experience with zs56|zs66 headset standards on my transition relay has been horrible.  The FSA 55r headset that came in the bike is bar none, the worst headset I have dealt with since my days dealing with threaded headsets.  Both crown races are terrible designs and are a constant source for noise.  The lower split race is a terrible idea, it lets dirt get under it, which causes creaking between the crown race and the crown.  The upper race has some terrible tolerances and is both hard to get onto the steer tube and somehow also difficult to remove.  Like a dummy... I just figured I got a bad sample of my first FSA 55r and bought another one... both sucked and are now in the trash.  

What makes matters worse... is that there are 4 headsets available industry wide for this standard.  FSA 55r, a nukeproof one with a built in knock block, an acros pile of garbage and a works components 5mm reach adjust.  I ended up buying a 5mm reach adjust works headset (even though I am not interested in altering the reach of my xl frame) so I could finally ditch the fsa disaster.  

/end rant (sorta)... When I got this bike, I was stoked because for years I've been ranting about why we still have integrated headsets not that we've woken up and realized that we need more stack across nearly all sizes.  It seems like being able to put an angle adjust headset is a value add for end users and at least a start, would be for all brands to go to press in headsets.  Bonus points for just selling the bike with an angle adjust, and reach adjust headset design from the factory.  It also feels like the overall cost of adding this to the design would easily be made back up by the extra sales you would grab because now you have less people that are in between sizes and are turned off by your particular take for sizing.  I know for me at 6'2", I do like a reach number between 485-500.  I like 485ish on my trail and XC bikes where I do more seated pedaling/turning, I like 490-500 on my mullet enduro bikes and I like around a 490 on my ebikes.  But now the industry is pushing XLs larger, in the 500-505 range, and I struggle to feel at home on a 470.

I digress... I thought this zs56/zs66 standard on the relay was going to be rad and answering a rant that I have had for years... I never once stopped to do some research and think through headset availability.  I guess I would have still bought the bike... but now that I know that there basically are only trash headsets for this standard... I'm pretty pissed/annoyed.  

4
6
10/24/2024 5:02pm
kperras wrote:
Just going to leave this here...Rocky Mountain Bicycles is using the FSA system on the carbon Altitude and Instincts, and our own designed (FSA made) ZS56|66...

Just going to leave this here...Rocky Mountain Bicycles is using the FSA system on the carbon Altitude and Instincts, and our own designed (FSA made) ZS56|66 round headsets for the alloy models. 10mm of reach adjust possible. The headset guts are just standard components: bearings, races, top caps, etc.

ebruner wrote:
I hate being that guy... but my experience with zs56|zs66 headset standards on my transition relay has been horrible.  The FSA 55r headset that came in...

I hate being that guy... but my experience with zs56|zs66 headset standards on my transition relay has been horrible.  The FSA 55r headset that came in the bike is bar none, the worst headset I have dealt with since my days dealing with threaded headsets.  Both crown races are terrible designs and are a constant source for noise.  The lower split race is a terrible idea, it lets dirt get under it, which causes creaking between the crown race and the crown.  The upper race has some terrible tolerances and is both hard to get onto the steer tube and somehow also difficult to remove.  Like a dummy... I just figured I got a bad sample of my first FSA 55r and bought another one... both sucked and are now in the trash.  

What makes matters worse... is that there are 4 headsets available industry wide for this standard.  FSA 55r, a nukeproof one with a built in knock block, an acros pile of garbage and a works components 5mm reach adjust.  I ended up buying a 5mm reach adjust works headset (even though I am not interested in altering the reach of my xl frame) so I could finally ditch the fsa disaster.  

/end rant (sorta)... When I got this bike, I was stoked because for years I've been ranting about why we still have integrated headsets not that we've woken up and realized that we need more stack across nearly all sizes.  It seems like being able to put an angle adjust headset is a value add for end users and at least a start, would be for all brands to go to press in headsets.  Bonus points for just selling the bike with an angle adjust, and reach adjust headset design from the factory.  It also feels like the overall cost of adding this to the design would easily be made back up by the extra sales you would grab because now you have less people that are in between sizes and are turned off by your particular take for sizing.  I know for me at 6'2", I do like a reach number between 485-500.  I like 485ish on my trail and XC bikes where I do more seated pedaling/turning, I like 490-500 on my mullet enduro bikes and I like around a 490 on my ebikes.  But now the industry is pushing XLs larger, in the 500-505 range, and I struggle to feel at home on a 470.

I digress... I thought this zs56/zs66 standard on the relay was going to be rad and answering a rant that I have had for years... I never once stopped to do some research and think through headset availability.  I guess I would have still bought the bike... but now that I know that there basically are only trash headsets for this standard... I'm pretty pissed/annoyed.  

Yes I have this exact bike with this issue.  Horrible headset. Maybe the FSA guy will

Chime in and give us a better solution

2
1
crablink
Posts
2
Joined
10/2/2024
Location
Adelaide, SA AU
10/24/2024 6:24pm
kperras wrote:
Just going to leave this here...Rocky Mountain Bicycles is using the FSA system on the carbon Altitude and Instincts, and our own designed (FSA made) ZS56|66...

Just going to leave this here...Rocky Mountain Bicycles is using the FSA system on the carbon Altitude and Instincts, and our own designed (FSA made) ZS56|66 round headsets for the alloy models. 10mm of reach adjust possible. The headset guts are just standard components: bearings, races, top caps, etc.

ebruner wrote:
I hate being that guy... but my experience with zs56|zs66 headset standards on my transition relay has been horrible.  The FSA 55r headset that came in...

I hate being that guy... but my experience with zs56|zs66 headset standards on my transition relay has been horrible.  The FSA 55r headset that came in the bike is bar none, the worst headset I have dealt with since my days dealing with threaded headsets.  Both crown races are terrible designs and are a constant source for noise.  The lower split race is a terrible idea, it lets dirt get under it, which causes creaking between the crown race and the crown.  The upper race has some terrible tolerances and is both hard to get onto the steer tube and somehow also difficult to remove.  Like a dummy... I just figured I got a bad sample of my first FSA 55r and bought another one... both sucked and are now in the trash.  

What makes matters worse... is that there are 4 headsets available industry wide for this standard.  FSA 55r, a nukeproof one with a built in knock block, an acros pile of garbage and a works components 5mm reach adjust.  I ended up buying a 5mm reach adjust works headset (even though I am not interested in altering the reach of my xl frame) so I could finally ditch the fsa disaster.  

/end rant (sorta)... When I got this bike, I was stoked because for years I've been ranting about why we still have integrated headsets not that we've woken up and realized that we need more stack across nearly all sizes.  It seems like being able to put an angle adjust headset is a value add for end users and at least a start, would be for all brands to go to press in headsets.  Bonus points for just selling the bike with an angle adjust, and reach adjust headset design from the factory.  It also feels like the overall cost of adding this to the design would easily be made back up by the extra sales you would grab because now you have less people that are in between sizes and are turned off by your particular take for sizing.  I know for me at 6'2", I do like a reach number between 485-500.  I like 485ish on my trail and XC bikes where I do more seated pedaling/turning, I like 490-500 on my mullet enduro bikes and I like around a 490 on my ebikes.  But now the industry is pushing XLs larger, in the 500-505 range, and I struggle to feel at home on a 470.

I digress... I thought this zs56/zs66 standard on the relay was going to be rad and answering a rant that I have had for years... I never once stopped to do some research and think through headset availability.  I guess I would have still bought the bike... but now that I know that there basically are only trash headsets for this standard... I'm pretty pissed/annoyed.  

Yes I have this exact bike with this issue.  Horrible headset. Maybe the FSA guy will

Chime in and give us a better solution

got this headset on a 2022 norco range vlt and its never been silent always creaking real bad.

3
Jotegr
Posts
113
Joined
6/28/2024
Location
Nakusp, BC CA
10/24/2024 8:07pm Edited Date/Time 10/25/2024 8:37am
TEAMROBOT wrote:
Million dollar idea: every frame comes with three headtubes welded in a neat row to the front of it. Users can play around with reach to...

Million dollar idea: every frame comes with three headtubes welded in a neat row to the front of it. Users can play around with reach to their heart's content, then use an angle grinder to cut off whichever ones they don't end up using. Or save them all for resale value. Choose your own adventure.

dolface wrote:

Bring back the "spam can" headtube... (I forget which company had one on a test mule)

Prototype aluminum norco range.

 

The oval headset from the Aurum HSP would be awesome in a tapered fit. Mine has been solid since 2019. No ability to run an angleset unless someone made a one-off for the frame. 

EDIT: . For those not familiar with Norco's system, it's essentially two IS headsets in one bike (yes, yes, I know we hate those but hear me out). The first is an oval shaped IS headset in the carbon frame itself, and the second is comprised of aluminum cups made to fit in the oval recess which in turn have the actual IS bearing seat. The bike came with four cups: an upper and lower offset set, and an upper and lower inline set. Using the inline set, you got the reach the bike was designed for. Using the offset set, you could go +/- 5mm of reach by flipping the cups around. It's sort of a production version of the spam can but only works for 1 1/8 steerers, but could be adapted to work with tapered forks (check out the bike checks if you don't believe me).

I'm sure the system isn't flawless but it's worked well in my experience and I don't recall ever hearing someone complain about it in real life or online, but the Aurum HSP was never a high volume bike, and because it fit kinda small when it was brand-spanking, probably sees nearly 100% of people run it in the longest setting. 

For a visual, here's a photo from the other site with the cups in the longest setting: 

p5pb16001915
5
kperras
Posts
57
Joined
12/19/2012
Location
CA
Fantasy
3861st
10/24/2024 8:31pm
ebruner wrote:
I hate being that guy... but my experience with zs56|zs66 headset standards on my transition relay has been horrible.  The FSA 55r headset that came in...

I hate being that guy... but my experience with zs56|zs66 headset standards on my transition relay has been horrible.  The FSA 55r headset that came in the bike is bar none, the worst headset I have dealt with since my days dealing with threaded headsets.  Both crown races are terrible designs and are a constant source for noise.  The lower split race is a terrible idea, it lets dirt get under it, which causes creaking between the crown race and the crown.  The upper race has some terrible tolerances and is both hard to get onto the steer tube and somehow also difficult to remove.  Like a dummy... I just figured I got a bad sample of my first FSA 55r and bought another one... both sucked and are now in the trash.  

What makes matters worse... is that there are 4 headsets available industry wide for this standard.  FSA 55r, a nukeproof one with a built in knock block, an acros pile of garbage and a works components 5mm reach adjust.  I ended up buying a 5mm reach adjust works headset (even though I am not interested in altering the reach of my xl frame) so I could finally ditch the fsa disaster.  

/end rant (sorta)... When I got this bike, I was stoked because for years I've been ranting about why we still have integrated headsets not that we've woken up and realized that we need more stack across nearly all sizes.  It seems like being able to put an angle adjust headset is a value add for end users and at least a start, would be for all brands to go to press in headsets.  Bonus points for just selling the bike with an angle adjust, and reach adjust headset design from the factory.  It also feels like the overall cost of adding this to the design would easily be made back up by the extra sales you would grab because now you have less people that are in between sizes and are turned off by your particular take for sizing.  I know for me at 6'2", I do like a reach number between 485-500.  I like 485ish on my trail and XC bikes where I do more seated pedaling/turning, I like 490-500 on my mullet enduro bikes and I like around a 490 on my ebikes.  But now the industry is pushing XLs larger, in the 500-505 range, and I struggle to feel at home on a 470.

I digress... I thought this zs56/zs66 standard on the relay was going to be rad and answering a rant that I have had for years... I never once stopped to do some research and think through headset availability.  I guess I would have still bought the bike... but now that I know that there basically are only trash headsets for this standard... I'm pretty pissed/annoyed.  

Whatever ZS56/66 headset that you have in your Transition is not the one that comes in Rocky Mountains. The cups are our own design that use standard 36x45 bearings, the bearings we spec are high end sealed stainless, and the crown race is not split. I'm not sure the comparison is valid here.

7
1
ebruner
Posts
101
Joined
3/29/2018
Location
Tustin, CA US
10/24/2024 9:49pm Edited Date/Time 10/24/2024 9:50pm
ebruner wrote:
I hate being that guy... but my experience with zs56|zs66 headset standards on my transition relay has been horrible.  The FSA 55r headset that came in...

I hate being that guy... but my experience with zs56|zs66 headset standards on my transition relay has been horrible.  The FSA 55r headset that came in the bike is bar none, the worst headset I have dealt with since my days dealing with threaded headsets.  Both crown races are terrible designs and are a constant source for noise.  The lower split race is a terrible idea, it lets dirt get under it, which causes creaking between the crown race and the crown.  The upper race has some terrible tolerances and is both hard to get onto the steer tube and somehow also difficult to remove.  Like a dummy... I just figured I got a bad sample of my first FSA 55r and bought another one... both sucked and are now in the trash.  

What makes matters worse... is that there are 4 headsets available industry wide for this standard.  FSA 55r, a nukeproof one with a built in knock block, an acros pile of garbage and a works components 5mm reach adjust.  I ended up buying a 5mm reach adjust works headset (even though I am not interested in altering the reach of my xl frame) so I could finally ditch the fsa disaster.  

/end rant (sorta)... When I got this bike, I was stoked because for years I've been ranting about why we still have integrated headsets not that we've woken up and realized that we need more stack across nearly all sizes.  It seems like being able to put an angle adjust headset is a value add for end users and at least a start, would be for all brands to go to press in headsets.  Bonus points for just selling the bike with an angle adjust, and reach adjust headset design from the factory.  It also feels like the overall cost of adding this to the design would easily be made back up by the extra sales you would grab because now you have less people that are in between sizes and are turned off by your particular take for sizing.  I know for me at 6'2", I do like a reach number between 485-500.  I like 485ish on my trail and XC bikes where I do more seated pedaling/turning, I like 490-500 on my mullet enduro bikes and I like around a 490 on my ebikes.  But now the industry is pushing XLs larger, in the 500-505 range, and I struggle to feel at home on a 470.

I digress... I thought this zs56/zs66 standard on the relay was going to be rad and answering a rant that I have had for years... I never once stopped to do some research and think through headset availability.  I guess I would have still bought the bike... but now that I know that there basically are only trash headsets for this standard... I'm pretty pissed/annoyed.  

kperras wrote:
Whatever ZS56/66 headset that you have in your Transition is not the one that comes in Rocky Mountains. The cups are our own design that use...

Whatever ZS56/66 headset that you have in your Transition is not the one that comes in Rocky Mountains. The cups are our own design that use standard 36x45 bearings, the bearings we spec are high end sealed stainless, and the crown race is not split. I'm not sure the comparison is valid here.

You're right, I wrote that like it was a comparison, didn't mean it to sound that way... And even if I did, you're right it's not valid. I haven't been able to find photos of the system you guys were using. I did assume here it was zs56/66. 

Transition always has a handful of frame details that seem to be finished with an "eh, good enough" type of mentality. That for sure hasn't been my experience with rocky mountains. I assume you guys chose better then transition did. 

Still, I'm a little bummed to have ended up with a bike that has a standard that basically isn't supported and all of the products on the market sorta suck. I definitely want to be able to adjust reach by +/-5, and have the option for +/- 1 degree of hta. I've had a few bikes with integrated headsets that I very likely would still have if I could. Have adjusted that. Seems like a really good value proposition for consumers. To date, my experience with zs56/66 is not that, at least not yet. 

4
krabo83
Posts
556
Joined
12/26/2017
Location
AT
10/24/2024 11:25pm

can we get back to rumors and please keep the headset standard discussion seperated (again)?!

thx

29
1
iceman2058
Posts
1530
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
IL
Fantasy
146th
10/25/2024 1:38am
krabo83 wrote:

can we get back to rumors and please keep the headset standard discussion seperated (again)?!

thx

17
10/25/2024 6:30am
kperras wrote:
Just going to leave this here...Rocky Mountain Bicycles is using the FSA system on the carbon Altitude and Instincts, and our own designed (FSA made) ZS56|66...

Just going to leave this here...Rocky Mountain Bicycles is using the FSA system on the carbon Altitude and Instincts, and our own designed (FSA made) ZS56|66 round headsets for the alloy models. 10mm of reach adjust possible. The headset guts are just standard components: bearings, races, top caps, etc.

ebruner wrote:
I hate being that guy... but my experience with zs56|zs66 headset standards on my transition relay has been horrible.  The FSA 55r headset that came in...

I hate being that guy... but my experience with zs56|zs66 headset standards on my transition relay has been horrible.  The FSA 55r headset that came in the bike is bar none, the worst headset I have dealt with since my days dealing with threaded headsets.  Both crown races are terrible designs and are a constant source for noise.  The lower split race is a terrible idea, it lets dirt get under it, which causes creaking between the crown race and the crown.  The upper race has some terrible tolerances and is both hard to get onto the steer tube and somehow also difficult to remove.  Like a dummy... I just figured I got a bad sample of my first FSA 55r and bought another one... both sucked and are now in the trash.  

What makes matters worse... is that there are 4 headsets available industry wide for this standard.  FSA 55r, a nukeproof one with a built in knock block, an acros pile of garbage and a works components 5mm reach adjust.  I ended up buying a 5mm reach adjust works headset (even though I am not interested in altering the reach of my xl frame) so I could finally ditch the fsa disaster.  

/end rant (sorta)... When I got this bike, I was stoked because for years I've been ranting about why we still have integrated headsets not that we've woken up and realized that we need more stack across nearly all sizes.  It seems like being able to put an angle adjust headset is a value add for end users and at least a start, would be for all brands to go to press in headsets.  Bonus points for just selling the bike with an angle adjust, and reach adjust headset design from the factory.  It also feels like the overall cost of adding this to the design would easily be made back up by the extra sales you would grab because now you have less people that are in between sizes and are turned off by your particular take for sizing.  I know for me at 6'2", I do like a reach number between 485-500.  I like 485ish on my trail and XC bikes where I do more seated pedaling/turning, I like 490-500 on my mullet enduro bikes and I like around a 490 on my ebikes.  But now the industry is pushing XLs larger, in the 500-505 range, and I struggle to feel at home on a 470.

I digress... I thought this zs56/zs66 standard on the relay was going to be rad and answering a rant that I have had for years... I never once stopped to do some research and think through headset availability.  I guess I would have still bought the bike... but now that I know that there basically are only trash headsets for this standard... I'm pretty pissed/annoyed.  

You need to run a Works components lower split race, that has a rubber seal built in. Been running one on my Patrol for years and have cleaned the headset twice. Those FSA headsets that come with bikes are junk. The one on my Stumpy Evo would get dirt in it after 2 rides and the Works crown race totally solved the problem on that bike too.

2
2
FullSend
Posts
330
Joined
7/14/2021
Location
DE
Fantasy
1197th
10/25/2024 7:07am
Marcus J wrote:

A standardized (blasphemy!) oval'ish headset standard would be awesome that give +-10mm reach/lots of angle adjust

Zuestman wrote:
FSA has a system called the RAS.  not a full +/- 10mm (20mm overall) but about +/-5mm.   Being shopped to companies right now with an...

FSA has a system called the RAS.  not a full +/- 10mm (20mm overall) but about +/-5mm.   Being shopped to companies right now with an open design so that it can become a standard.  Discussions on angle as well (though gets into a MULTITUDE of cup options if you combo it all).  We are trying... just need bike companies to buy in.  But the designs are out there and being shopped.

That's cool, I wish you guys all the luck with that. Would be so cool to see this as a universally adopted standard. Unfortunately it didn't work out for the company my friend worked at when they proposed a similar system in 2017, but maybe back then it was just an idea ahead of its time. The only brand that was somewhat interested was Specialized, but they then a few years later came out with their own version of a geo-adjust headset. (Isn't that one actually made by FSA?)

The only slight hesitation I have about the idea of a universally adopted oval geo-adjust headset is that manufacturing tolerances for most bike brands are abysmal. Like you said, you can't even trust most bike brands with boring a hole, that is; 1) round, 2) straight and 3) in the right place. Not that the OEM's in asia couldn't do it right, it's just that most bike brands simply don't care to do a robust and effective quality control process, because that would eat into their margins.

2
Eae903
Posts
121
Joined
10/20/2023
Location
Laramie, WY US
10/25/2024 8:23am
krabo83 wrote:

can we get back to rumors and please keep the headset standard discussion seperated (again)?!

thx

I've heard that the next Shimano drivetrains are supposed to be 13 speed. Both the mechanical and Di2 versions. 

5
1
AndehM
Posts
203
Joined
5/7/2018
Location
El Granada, CA US
Fantasy
347th
10/25/2024 8:53am
Eae903 wrote:

I've heard that the next Shimano drivetrains are supposed to be 13 speed. Both the mechanical and Di2 versions. 

Given my experience with 2 XTR 12-speed cassettes wearing out in <200 miles each, my immediate reaction to that rumor was a sarcastic, "What could possibly go wrong?"  More gears = thinner cogs & narrower chain = even faster wear, especially given Shimano's use of lighter weight but less durable metals on the XTR range.

4
ebruner
Posts
101
Joined
3/29/2018
Location
Tustin, CA US
10/25/2024 9:03am
krabo83 wrote:

can we get back to rumors and please keep the headset standard discussion seperated (again)?!

thx

yeesh sorry.  Unfortunately for all of us... I don't think there is going to be feverish new releases of tech on pedal bikes as our gear/sport is maturing.  Headset/geo adjust seems like innovation to me in this space and seems representitive of the small gains in value/usability we're likely going to see.  But who knows, maybe I'm wrong and this doesn't count for anything and of course rule 35 of the internet, is that forum threads MUST stay on topic.  It's almost as universally true as rule 34.  

15
Zuestman
Posts
155
Joined
10/27/2014
Location
Seattle, WA US
Fantasy
464th
10/25/2024 9:05am

Yes I have this exact bike with this issue.  Horrible headset. Maybe the FSA guy will

Chime in and give us a better solution

Ok, so yes, chiming in hee.  First to not as has already been pointed out we have a TON of headsets and combos.  @ebruner happy to help with yours specifically (or honestly anyone for that matter) but please DM me so we don't clog the thread.  

General info on chiming in:

1. split races: agreed they are not ideal, and can lead to creaking. but see OEM requirements to speed up install of products and make assembly easier and cheaper at times.  Yes we offer it, but only because of a request.  If you haveone and want to swap it out.  happy to chat and find something that will work

2. compression rings: the newer internal routed HS require a much beefier compression ring that allows cables to go through.  this meands it doesn't compress around the steerer as easily, and therefore needs to be a tighter fit there.  I have also found that these headsets need a bit more preload to get them settled in right and lessen creaking.

3. Grease: honestly no headset straight from the factory is greased enough (external to the bearings).  Greasethe ever-loving crap out of your headset if you have it apart.  that makes a massive difference.

Beyond that, i will say i am not a fan of internal routing either... but a company wants it we will make it.  and we will do our damndest to make it happen at a decent price to not drive the cost of bikes up more but have a reasonably solid product out there.  We won't be Works Components or Chris King, but also wont cost the same. 

Again, as I said, happy to help with HS questions through DM, as we can get quite creative here with parts, so feel free to reach out.

25
chriskief
Posts
381
Joined
4/15/2017
Location
New York, NY US
Fantasy
243rd
10/25/2024 9:45am

FUNN makes a ZS56 upper headset too: https://www.amazon.ca/Funn-Descend-Upper-Headset-28-6/dp/B076D8MNKL.  I just put a ZS44/ZS56 headset of theirs on another bike and it seems really solid.

Actually almost everybody makes the zero stack 56 upper. The problem is the lower.

A good 56mm option I've found is from RAAW. Use their bearings/races or swap out to a Chris King dropset (41mm bearings).

https://raawmtb.com/en-us/collections/parts/products/yalla-headset-complete-00

They've also got reach and angle adjust cup options:

https://raawmtb.com/en-us/collections/parts/products/dh-headset-cups

6
TEAMROBOT
Posts
736
Joined
9/2/2009
Location
Los Angeles, CA US
Fantasy
371st
10/25/2024 10:54am Edited Date/Time 10/25/2024 10:54am
chriskief wrote:
A good 56mm option I've found is from RAAW. Use their bearings/races or swap out to a Chris King dropset (41mm bearings).https://raawmtb.com/en-us/collections/parts/products/yalla-headset-complete-00They've also got...

A good 56mm option I've found is from RAAW. Use their bearings/races or swap out to a Chris King dropset (41mm bearings).

https://raawmtb.com/en-us/collections/parts/products/yalla-headset-complete-00

They've also got reach and angle adjust cup options:

https://raawmtb.com/en-us/collections/parts/products/dh-headset-cups

*great tip, but heads up to others that this tip only applies to 1 1/8" straight steerer forks, as the Yalla is their DH bike

3
chriskief
Posts
381
Joined
4/15/2017
Location
New York, NY US
Fantasy
243rd
10/25/2024 11:02am
TEAMROBOT wrote:

*great tip, but heads up to others that this tip only applies to 1 1/8" straight steerer forks, as the Yalla is their DH bike

Good point. For tapered steerers you can use a lower cup such as King's Inset - https://chrisking.com/products/headset-inset-2

 But you can't use the RAAW reach / angle adjust options with that setup.

1
gibbon
Posts
439
Joined
3/7/2019
Location
GB
10/25/2024 11:29am
Eae903 wrote:

I've heard that the next Shimano drivetrains are supposed to be 13 speed. Both the mechanical and Di2 versions. 

The KTM spec leaks confirmed it's 12 speed but I have a feeling GRX 1x Di2 will be 13 speed. We will find out soon as the press launch is in Spain next week.

6
10/25/2024 11:57am
The Marin Alpine trail XR has a nifty +- angle cups for a budget frame. So it's totally doable even at low cost. I really want a...

The Marin Alpine trail XR has a nifty +- angle cups for a budget frame. So it's totally doable even at low cost. 

I really want a Rocky because of the headset adjust meaning you can size it perfectly, just wish it was 6.5k aud and receives mediocre warranty standards in aus. 

side note, the New trail XR is damn good - just got done with my time testing it - Insera has really upped their Manufacturing Quality & QC - Everything lined up and operated perfectly... Frames heavy sure but man is it good.
Only thing worth noting on it is the Low Anti Squat but All models come with high lock out force shock tunes - this in turn makes these bikes so good down the hill, They dont lack any pop either which surprised me.

10/10 would buy with my own money(yes do have a frame orderd)

7

Post a reply to: MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

The Latest