Dunno why the convo steered towards travel numbers. Stumpy basically had 3 diff travel options at one point. Many brands actually use travel number as their model name more or less (a la Kona and Yeti). I think the bigger concern is having the same HTA and nearly same wheelbase for every travel size. And in those regards Spesh may arguably be one of the 'better' ones about that. To me their only distinct crime against humanity was the lowest BB possible trend which probably legitimately broke a few hundred if not thousand toes/feet lol
So many good bikes to pick from right now but ultimately we do have to admit... we don't quite need yet another mid travel 64.5 with reach that's probably 10-20mm too long and chainstays that may be 5-10mm too long. I feel like most brands are pulling back from that trend. Again, obviously totally makes sense for certain AM bikes and basically all enduro bikes. But short to mid travel trail bikes maybe don't need this treatment. At least en masse. Which is why the YT Izzo seems so compelling to me even though I wouldn't say it was on my radar on initial release.
Spesh is def making some odd decisions, for sure, but I think the real criminal shame is whatever Santa Cruz is doing to their bikes right now. Mulleting the 5010, so it's just a "worse" Bronson. Making the new Bronson and Hightower damn near downhill bikes. So... What do you do with the Nomad and Megatower? Get rid of em? Make em 180mm front? 63.5-63 head tube? Size SMALL hightower WB is 1176... The XXL is fuggin 1328. Holy shit lol. Go much further and they will have to pay Grim Donut royalties to Levy
One person says we don't need 5-10mm longer C's 20mm longer reach and 64.5 ha mid travel bikes and another says it's exactly what we need.
The great thing about having soo many choices is that you should be able to find exactly what you want so long as you aren't locked into a specific brand. Don't get upset because the brand you want doesn't make your ideal geo, very high chances are someone else does make it.
Give me long chainstays, long wheelbase, linear travel, and slack. One in mid travel and one in burly long travel.
One person says we don't need 5-10mm longer C's 20mm longer reach and 64.5 ha mid travel bikes and another says it's exactly what we need.The...
One person says we don't need 5-10mm longer C's 20mm longer reach and 64.5 ha mid travel bikes and another says it's exactly what we need.
The great thing about having soo many choices is that you should be able to find exactly what you want so long as you aren't locked into a specific brand. Don't get upset because the brand you want doesn't make your ideal geo, very high chances are someone else does make it.
Give me long chainstays, long wheelbase, linear travel, and slack. One in mid travel and one in burly long travel.
Now I NEED to know what bike(s) you're riding and are happy with. Not for any reason other than I haven't had enough opportunity to try that many different bikes and "long, long, linear, slack" sounds like exactly the opposite of what I think I need for the trails I have near me.
I've honestly not paid much attention to those kinds of bikes since they're so far outside my use case. What have you loved? What have you not liked?
I'm very glad they were able to produce a bike with some cable ports and it weighs an extra 3 pounds.
Seriously, I hope that trend goes back the other way and all bikes have AT LEAST a stick on cable mount package sold with the frame or make some holes in the frame with some high quality plugs and ditch the tube in tube that is probably expensive to get right. I hope enough people vote with their money (and don't buy these bikes) and this trend for no cable driven drivetrains dies fast. Yea, I'm old. No, I don't want an app or a battery for my drivetrain or my seatpost. Yea, I have enough money to buy a nice bike. Yea, people ask me all the time what they should buy...
Looks like the new E13 rear hub should be out next week. The speculation is that the paws disengage when the wheel is spinning to free up the chain tension and pedal kick.
Looks like the new E13 rear hub should be out next week. The speculation is that the paws disengage when the wheel is spinning to free...
Looks like the new E13 rear hub should be out next week. The speculation is that the paws disengage when the wheel is spinning to free up the chain tension and pedal kick.
Looks like the new E13 rear hub should be out next week. The speculation is that the paws disengage when the wheel is spinning to free...
Looks like the new E13 rear hub should be out next week. The speculation is that the paws disengage when the wheel is spinning to free up the chain tension and pedal kick.
One person says we don't need 5-10mm longer C's 20mm longer reach and 64.5 ha mid travel bikes and another says it's exactly what we need.The...
One person says we don't need 5-10mm longer C's 20mm longer reach and 64.5 ha mid travel bikes and another says it's exactly what we need.
The great thing about having soo many choices is that you should be able to find exactly what you want so long as you aren't locked into a specific brand. Don't get upset because the brand you want doesn't make your ideal geo, very high chances are someone else does make it.
Give me long chainstays, long wheelbase, linear travel, and slack. One in mid travel and one in burly long travel.
This is exactly my point. The industry has been homogenizing too much around a singular type of bike. Particularly in the available mass market. No reason in pointing out boutique steel and carbon frame only stuff.
Anything 'small' is basically seen as a bad thing apparently lol. Long travel, long wheelbase, long reach, long CS, big wheels.
I mean there are almost no more dual 27 options for size large. Particularly as alloy available in the NA. Short travel MX is kinda just becoming a thing with the new Optic and the older Stumpy with a link (which I guess is now discontinued lol so not even that)
If you look at the variety of 2015-2020 it's a stark comparison. But it's not surprising given the current industry. You can NOT make dead models that appeal to less than 1% of the market. So... This is what we get.
And ultimately I'm saying this as someone who LIKED the new Stumpy when I demo'd it. I can see merit in almost all bikes. I'm just saying if your local trails and personal riding style require a certain style of bike, you may be SoL. That YT Izzo is stellar. One of the few 29ers that isn't secretly trying to be an enduro. Just a nice trail bike.
If you used a credit card, and it's within the last 6 months, go hit the "dispute" button with your bank. Going by the email it won't...
If you used a credit card, and it's within the last 6 months, go hit the "dispute" button with your bank. Going by the email it won't be Rob and Mike getting hit with the reversed charges, it'll be the company that took over MI and fired them which gets to involuntarily refund you.
I made a dispute request through PayPal, and got an update today that refunds will happen. Really bummed as I really looked forward to this system.
Some companies have trouble building „regular“ hubs, so I‘m a bit concerned that extra complication could come at the expense of longevity / robustness
Looks like the new E13 rear hub should be out next week. The speculation is that the paws disengage when the wheel is spinning to free...
Looks like the new E13 rear hub should be out next week. The speculation is that the paws disengage when the wheel is spinning to free up the chain tension and pedal kick.
More so in the long-term review…Some companies have trouble building „regular“ hubs, so I‘m a bit concerned that extra complication could come at the expense of...
More so in the long-term review…
Some companies have trouble building „regular“ hubs, so I‘m a bit concerned that extra complication could come at the expense of longevity / robustness
Generally rad product though!
I'm a big fan of E.13's stuff, and having run a ton of stuff from them from dropper posts, cassettes, chainrings, etc, and longevity, particularly with wheel and dropper components, has never been their strong suit. Hope this one's different.
Looks like the new E13 rear hub should be out next week. The speculation is that the paws disengage when the wheel is spinning to free...
Looks like the new E13 rear hub should be out next week. The speculation is that the paws disengage when the wheel is spinning to free up the chain tension and pedal kick.
I was wondering if we would soon see bmx freecoaster hub technology appear for this reason! Would be fairly elegant if it works, but theres normally a ton of lag in those systems
Looks like the new E13 rear hub should be out next week. The speculation is that the paws disengage when the wheel is spinning to free...
Looks like the new E13 rear hub should be out next week. The speculation is that the paws disengage when the wheel is spinning to free up the chain tension and pedal kick.
Looks like the new E13 rear hub should be out next week. The speculation is that the paws disengage when the wheel is spinning to free...
Looks like the new E13 rear hub should be out next week. The speculation is that the paws disengage when the wheel is spinning to free up the chain tension and pedal kick.
Most E13 hubs disengage the pawls...................eventually.
Looks like the new E13 rear hub should be out next week. The speculation is that the paws disengage when the wheel is spinning to free...
Looks like the new E13 rear hub should be out next week. The speculation is that the paws disengage when the wheel is spinning to free up the chain tension and pedal kick.
It's based off the dw6 link that the Athertons use that is a proper 6 bar (axle mounted to the seatstay link with a pivot on the chainstay). In this case the missing pivot is handled by the rear triangle flexing, so it really depends on how the axle/brake section of the triangle moves relative to the two ends of the triangle.
This is true for flex stay single pivots too, you can't characterise them as single pivots as it really depends on where the flexing occurs. If it's only in the seatstay, it's effectively a single pivot. If it's the chainstay (Cannondale does this with the thin section) it's basically a 4 bar. The reality is somewhere in between in practice.
Dunno why the convo steered towards travel numbers. Stumpy basically had 3 diff travel options at one point. Many brands actually use travel number as their model name more or less (a la Kona and Yeti). I think the bigger concern is having the same HTA and nearly same wheelbase for every travel size. And in those regards Spesh may arguably be one of the 'better' ones about that. To me their only distinct crime against humanity was the lowest BB possible trend which probably legitimately broke a few hundred if not thousand toes/feet lol
So many good bikes to pick from right now but ultimately we do have to admit... we don't quite need yet another mid travel 64.5 with reach that's probably 10-20mm too long and chainstays that may be 5-10mm too long. I feel like most brands are pulling back from that trend. Again, obviously totally makes sense for certain AM bikes and basically all enduro bikes. But short to mid travel trail bikes maybe don't need this treatment. At least en masse. Which is why the YT Izzo seems so compelling to me even though I wouldn't say it was on my radar on initial release.
Spesh is def making some odd decisions, for sure, but I think the real criminal shame is whatever Santa Cruz is doing to their bikes right now. Mulleting the 5010, so it's just a "worse" Bronson. Making the new Bronson and Hightower damn near downhill bikes. So... What do you do with the Nomad and Megatower? Get rid of em? Make em 180mm front? 63.5-63 head tube? Size SMALL hightower WB is 1176... The XXL is fuggin 1328. Holy shit lol. Go much further and they will have to pay Grim Donut royalties to Levy
hey all, i started a travel-specific discussion so tech rumors can stay focused on weird/new product - https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/hub/how-much-suspension-travel-do-you-want-vs-need-your-mountain-bike
it has data from our 2024 survey that just wrapped up (thx brines for mentioning it)
One person says we don't need 5-10mm longer C's 20mm longer reach and 64.5 ha mid travel bikes and another says it's exactly what we need.
The great thing about having soo many choices is that you should be able to find exactly what you want so long as you aren't locked into a specific brand. Don't get upset because the brand you want doesn't make your ideal geo, very high chances are someone else does make it.
Give me long chainstays, long wheelbase, linear travel, and slack. One in mid travel and one in burly long travel.
I think at this point you need to make a new "Tangents" forum section
you mean this? https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/VitalMTB/The-Hub,2 🤪
Now I NEED to know what bike(s) you're riding and are happy with. Not for any reason other than I haven't had enough opportunity to try that many different bikes and "long, long, linear, slack" sounds like exactly the opposite of what I think I need for the trails I have near me.
I've honestly not paid much attention to those kinds of bikes since they're so far outside my use case. What have you loved? What have you not liked?
I'm very glad they were able to produce a bike with some cable ports and it weighs an extra 3 pounds.
Seriously, I hope that trend goes back the other way and all bikes have AT LEAST a stick on cable mount package sold with the frame or make some holes in the frame with some high quality plugs and ditch the tube in tube that is probably expensive to get right. I hope enough people vote with their money (and don't buy these bikes) and this trend for no cable driven drivetrains dies fast. Yea, I'm old. No, I don't want an app or a battery for my drivetrain or my seatpost. Yea, I have enough money to buy a nice bike. Yea, people ask me all the time what they should buy...
Looks like the new E13 rear hub should be out next week. The speculation is that the paws disengage when the wheel is spinning to free up the chain tension and pedal kick.
Looks like next week will be full of releases!
I'm excited to see a teardown of these E13 hubs
Seems like it, I heard the V3 Sentinel is on the 25th.
This is exactly my point. The industry has been homogenizing too much around a singular type of bike. Particularly in the available mass market. No reason in pointing out boutique steel and carbon frame only stuff.
Anything 'small' is basically seen as a bad thing apparently lol. Long travel, long wheelbase, long reach, long CS, big wheels.
I mean there are almost no more dual 27 options for size large. Particularly as alloy available in the NA. Short travel MX is kinda just becoming a thing with the new Optic and the older Stumpy with a link (which I guess is now discontinued lol so not even that)
If you look at the variety of 2015-2020 it's a stark comparison. But it's not surprising given the current industry. You can NOT make dead models that appeal to less than 1% of the market. So... This is what we get.
And ultimately I'm saying this as someone who LIKED the new Stumpy when I demo'd it. I can see merit in almost all bikes. I'm just saying if your local trails and personal riding style require a certain style of bike, you may be SoL. That YT Izzo is stellar. One of the few 29ers that isn't secretly trying to be an enduro. Just a nice trail bike.
I made a dispute request through PayPal, and got an update today that refunds will happen. Really bummed as I really looked forward to this system.
More so in the long-term review…
Some companies have trouble building „regular“ hubs, so I‘m a bit concerned that extra complication could come at the expense of longevity / robustness
Generally rad product though!
I'm curious how the mechanism differs from Tairin's current hubs.
I'm a big fan of E.13's stuff, and having run a ton of stuff from them from dropper posts, cassettes, chainrings, etc, and longevity, particularly with wheel and dropper components, has never been their strong suit. Hope this one's different.
I figured e13 is the crank bros of specialized rear hubs but maybe things have changed
I was wondering if we would soon see bmx freecoaster hub technology appear for this reason! Would be fairly elegant if it works, but theres normally a ton of lag in those systems
missed ''Stay Engaged'' opportunity there..
Lifetime warranty, 1,566g for the set - check out the new KFX i28 carbon wheels from FSA:
https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/lifetime-waranty-1566g-fsa-…
Most E13 hubs disengage the pawls...................eventually.
orange bikes factory tour for some more "classic" production methods.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DAGzfAyschl/?igsh=MXR1dGptdzJseTBtMQ==
New shimanos again on Jackson’s bike?
Looks like the new Shimano are in the Vital Test Session in Whistler. We're def getting closer to a release :D
nope. we have XTR and Deore 4 pots in whistler right now.
Probably next year with the new drivetrains, I've heard spring.
true but now its a feature, not a bug!
The master cylinder in some pics still looked milled…
How does the Pivot kinematic work ?
The wheel trajectory is defined by the 2 short links, and the seatstays+yoke are there to activate the shock and define the amount of travel ?
It's based off the dw6 link that the Athertons use that is a proper 6 bar (axle mounted to the seatstay link with a pivot on the chainstay). In this case the missing pivot is handled by the rear triangle flexing, so it really depends on how the axle/brake section of the triangle moves relative to the two ends of the triangle.
This is true for flex stay single pivots too, you can't characterise them as single pivots as it really depends on where the flexing occurs. If it's only in the seatstay, it's effectively a single pivot. If it's the chainstay (Cannondale does this with the thin section) it's basically a 4 bar. The reality is somewhere in between in practice.