MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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DServy
Posts
234
Joined
5/28/2015
Location
Jackson, WY US
4/17/2024 3:06pm
easton wrote:
The current carbon Process X short CS position gives 157mm travel. Long CS position is 164mm. Will be interesting how many other geo differences a new...

The current carbon Process X short CS position gives 157mm travel. Long CS position is 164mm.

Will be interesting how many other geo differences a new 153 with have. IMO 4mm of travel difference is not really perceptible. 

Having two models with set CS lengths will let them use a UDH so that could be a factor.

nicompr wrote:

I find it really interesting that no one find a way to made CS length ajustable with udh. I guess the dropouts will be too big

Look at what they did for the Dreadnought v2, adjustable chainstays on that bike. 

1
Dogboy
Posts
65
Joined
4/12/2011
Location
Chapel Hill, NC US
4/17/2024 3:15pm
easton wrote:
The current carbon Process X short CS position gives 157mm travel. Long CS position is 164mm. Will be interesting how many other geo differences a new...

The current carbon Process X short CS position gives 157mm travel. Long CS position is 164mm.

Will be interesting how many other geo differences a new 153 with have. IMO 4mm of travel difference is not really perceptible. 

Having two models with set CS lengths will let them use a UDH so that could be a factor.

nicompr wrote:

I find it really interesting that no one find a way to made CS length ajustable with udh. I guess the dropouts will be too big

DServy wrote:

Look at what they did for the Dreadnought v2, adjustable chainstays on that bike. 

Chainstays are scaled by frame size, but are a fixed length not adjustable. Correct?

2
kperras
Posts
161
Joined
12/19/2012
Location
CA
4/17/2024 3:19pm
chriskief wrote:

Rocky Instinct has an adjustable chainstay with UDH.

https://bikes.com/collections/instinct

But you can only use the longer position when running a T-Type derailleur.

The reason why you can't have UDH hangers or T-Type derailleurs on an adjustable axle system, aside from the chainstay length issue (which can be managed with adding or subtracting links) is that they both require open space behind the axle to allow the hanger or the derailleur to sweep back in the event of a strike to the derailleur. It's part of their design, and frame companies are provided with clearance models to help with that design.

7
isack
Posts
15
Joined
7/15/2021
Location
Bozeman, MT US
4/17/2024 3:51pm
chriskief wrote:

Rocky Instinct has an adjustable chainstay with UDH.

https://bikes.com/collections/instinct

But you can only use the longer position when running a T-Type derailleur.

kperras wrote:
The reason why you can't have UDH hangers or T-Type derailleurs on an adjustable axle system, aside from the chainstay length issue (which can be managed...

The reason why you can't have UDH hangers or T-Type derailleurs on an adjustable axle system, aside from the chainstay length issue (which can be managed with adding or subtracting links) is that they both require open space behind the axle to allow the hanger or the derailleur to sweep back in the event of a strike to the derailleur. It's part of their design, and frame companies are provided with clearance models to help with that design.

SRAM must've done a terrible job with the clearance models, seeing frames breaking from rotated derailleurs.

2
DServy
Posts
234
Joined
5/28/2015
Location
Jackson, WY US
4/17/2024 4:35pm
nicompr wrote:

I find it really interesting that no one find a way to made CS length ajustable with udh. I guess the dropouts will be too big

DServy wrote:

Look at what they did for the Dreadnought v2, adjustable chainstays on that bike. 

Dogboy wrote:

Chainstays are scaled by frame size, but are a fixed length not adjustable. Correct?

nope, they have fully detachable dropouts that you attach via bolts. It basically replaces the last part of the rear triangle. 

4
f.i.t.nj
Posts
43
Joined
3/7/2020
Location
Englishtown, NJ US
4/17/2024 4:52pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2024 4:52pm
nicompr wrote:

I find it really interesting that no one find a way to made CS length ajustable with udh. I guess the dropouts will be too big

DServy wrote:

Look at what they did for the Dreadnought v2, adjustable chainstays on that bike. 

Dogboy wrote:

Chainstays are scaled by frame size, but are a fixed length not adjustable. Correct?

No - there's also going to be modular drop out options for adjustable length like on the Supernought

2
4/17/2024 6:17pm
DServy wrote:

Look at what they did for the Dreadnought v2, adjustable chainstays on that bike. 

Dogboy wrote:

Chainstays are scaled by frame size, but are a fixed length not adjustable. Correct?

DServy wrote:

nope, they have fully detachable dropouts that you attach via bolts. It basically replaces the last part of the rear triangle. 

Like Banshees modular dropouts? Seems like an obvious solution. 

7
2supple
Posts
99
Joined
1/23/2022
Location
Denver, CO US
4/17/2024 8:12pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2024 8:15pm
easton wrote:
The current carbon Process X short CS position gives 157mm travel. Long CS position is 164mm. Will be interesting how many other geo differences a new...

The current carbon Process X short CS position gives 157mm travel. Long CS position is 164mm.

Will be interesting how many other geo differences a new 153 with have. IMO 4mm of travel difference is not really perceptible. 

Having two models with set CS lengths will let them use a UDH so that could be a factor.

nicompr wrote:

I find it really interesting that no one find a way to made CS length ajustable with udh. I guess the dropouts will be too big

Imagine making your dream bike with adjustable chainstays. Develop your short and long settings. Now put the CS in long position and remove the ability to adjust. Problem solved.

5
Primoz
Posts
4554
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
4/18/2024 12:41am
Dogboy wrote:

Chainstays are scaled by frame size, but are a fixed length not adjustable. Correct?

DServy wrote:

nope, they have fully detachable dropouts that you attach via bolts. It basically replaces the last part of the rear triangle. 

Like Banshees modular dropouts? Seems like an obvious solution. 

Those can limit pivot placement on Horst link bikes. 

2
shreda
Posts
208
Joined
10/2/2018
Location
GB
4/18/2024 4:45am

Surprise surprise, DT Swiss launches a new 240 hub with more engagement (DEG). 

Funny enough, the two ratchets are now both spring loaded again, unlike the last version.

https://www.dtswiss.com/de/innovationen/a-different-angle

10
Primoz
Posts
4554
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
4/18/2024 5:10am

"EASIER SERVICEABILITY SYSTEM

The innovative construction of the 240 DEG hub allows bearing replacement without special tools."
Finally!!

14
nskerb
Posts
341
Joined
3/3/2020
Location
Kelso, WA US
4/18/2024 7:09am

Kona going tits up? Saw some article on PB about it. Could see it coming for a while now with their bogo sales. Bummer deal if it’s true.

4
amaranth
Posts
177
Joined
10/19/2023
Location
Nutley, NJ US
4/18/2024 7:27am

Excited for the new 240 DEG hubs from DT swiss. They seem to be bomb proof, decently lightweight, pretty good engagement, and very serviceable by a gorilla like me. They do seem to cost quite a bit though - I wonder if anyone can compare them to the CK hubs that use a similar mechanism and engagement, while also being priced quite closely? 

3
2
4/18/2024 8:16am
Fred_Pop wrote:

Nope.There hasn't been any evolution in road cycling since they switched to disc brakes...as for gravel well that's just old school mtb.

Yea if anyone cares T-Type 13 speed is coming to road/gravel later this year. 

grambo wrote:

How? Isn't new SRAM Red releasing in a couple weeks in May? 

It’s probably going to be T-Type…

15
4/18/2024 8:24am
shreda wrote:
Surprise surprise, DT Swiss launches a new 240 hub with more engagement (DEG).  Funny enough, the two ratchets are now both spring loaded again, unlike the...

Surprise surprise, DT Swiss launches a new 240 hub with more engagement (DEG). 

Funny enough, the two ratchets are now both spring loaded again, unlike the last version.

https://www.dtswiss.com/de/innovationen/a-different-angle

Here’s our review, been riding it for 7 months: 

https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/90-tooth-dt-swiss-hub-all-new-240-rat…

9
4/18/2024 8:25am
nskerb wrote:
Kona going tits up? Saw some article on PB about it. Could see it coming for a while now with their bogo sales. Bummer deal if...

Kona going tits up? Saw some article on PB about it. Could see it coming for a while now with their bogo sales. Bummer deal if it’s true.

Eh, I feel like Kona has been irrelevant for a while and then you have the Kent Outdoors acquisition, all downhill from there. I haven't really thought about Konas since seeing the Stinky in like 2012 lol

1
bizutch
Posts
1437
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
Fletcher, NC US
4/18/2024 8:42am
amaranth wrote:
Excited for the new 240 DEG hubs from DT swiss. They seem to be bomb proof, decently lightweight, pretty good engagement, and very serviceable by a...

Excited for the new 240 DEG hubs from DT swiss. They seem to be bomb proof, decently lightweight, pretty good engagement, and very serviceable by a gorilla like me. They do seem to cost quite a bit though - I wonder if anyone can compare them to the CK hubs that use a similar mechanism and engagement, while also being priced quite closely? 

My only complaint about my 2 rear DT's is that I regularly goon them by banging a new tire to re-distribute new sealant on my deck rail and send the cassette/guts flying.

11
nskerb
Posts
341
Joined
3/3/2020
Location
Kelso, WA US
4/18/2024 9:12am
Eh, I feel like Kona has been irrelevant for a while and then you have the Kent Outdoors acquisition, all downhill from there. I haven't really...

Eh, I feel like Kona has been irrelevant for a while and then you have the Kent Outdoors acquisition, all downhill from there. I haven't really thought about Konas since seeing the Stinky in like 2012 lol

They have fallen off the radar pretty hard for the last few years but you cannot deny they weren’t the talk of the town not too long ago really. 2013-16 ish with the 153 and 111 everybody (me included) were quite stoked.

5
Eae903
Posts
367
Joined
10/20/2023
Location
Laramie, WY US
4/18/2024 9:21am
DServy wrote:

nope, they have fully detachable dropouts that you attach via bolts. It basically replaces the last part of the rear triangle. 

Like Banshees modular dropouts? Seems like an obvious solution. 

Primoz wrote:

Those can limit pivot placement on Horst link bikes. 

Kavenz is doing this and they use a high pivot Horst link, it doesn't seen to affect what they want out of their bikes kinematics. 

Konda
Posts
45
Joined
5/28/2023
Location
Kidderminster GB
4/18/2024 10:19am

I can't remember seeing any pictures of them elsewhere, but Yoshi's new pedals are briefly visible in vitals insta story featuring someone with flowing locks and towering stack.

9
sprungmass
Posts
237
Joined
3/1/2023
Location
Calgary, AB CA
4/18/2024 10:37am

Continental finally releasing soft compound in trail casing. Hopefully super soft in enduro casing is also on the menu.

 

21
dolface
Posts
1671
Joined
10/26/2015
Location
CA US
4/18/2024 10:49am
sprungmass wrote:
Continental finally releasing soft compound in trail casing. Hopefully super soft in enduro casing is also on the menu.  

Continental finally releasing soft compound in trail casing. Hopefully super soft in enduro casing is also on the menu.

 

YESSSSSSS!

2
4/18/2024 11:20am Edited Date/Time 4/18/2024 11:34am
sprungmass wrote:
Continental finally releasing soft compound in trail casing. Hopefully super soft in enduro casing is also on the menu.  

Continental finally releasing soft compound in trail casing. Hopefully super soft in enduro casing is also on the menu.

 

Good move. I have the Enduro Softs on my enduro bike, and the Trail Endurance casings on the trail bike, and would prefer a softer compound in the front. 

2
4/18/2024 11:23am
Eh, I feel like Kona has been irrelevant for a while and then you have the Kent Outdoors acquisition, all downhill from there. I haven't really...

Eh, I feel like Kona has been irrelevant for a while and then you have the Kent Outdoors acquisition, all downhill from there. I haven't really thought about Konas since seeing the Stinky in like 2012 lol

nskerb wrote:
They have fallen off the radar pretty hard for the last few years but you cannot deny they weren’t the talk of the town not too...

They have fallen off the radar pretty hard for the last few years but you cannot deny they weren’t the talk of the town not too long ago really. 2013-16 ish with the 153 and 111 everybody (me included) were quite stoked.

It is a total bummer as they were one of the OG gravity brands. I feel like the market is hyper competitive. Your bikes have to look awesome, ride awesome, be on the cutting edge, have a cool story, and your brand has to be an excellent story teller to stay relevant in order to achieve long term success. In the last 7-8 years, I felt as if Kona was just riding the wave of tech and innovation vs being the wave. 

9
metadave
Posts
1247
Joined
2/15/2016
Location
Revelstoke, BC CA
4/18/2024 12:02pm
Eh, I feel like Kona has been irrelevant for a while and then you have the Kent Outdoors acquisition, all downhill from there. I haven't really...

Eh, I feel like Kona has been irrelevant for a while and then you have the Kent Outdoors acquisition, all downhill from there. I haven't really thought about Konas since seeing the Stinky in like 2012 lol

nskerb wrote:
They have fallen off the radar pretty hard for the last few years but you cannot deny they weren’t the talk of the town not too...

They have fallen off the radar pretty hard for the last few years but you cannot deny they weren’t the talk of the town not too long ago really. 2013-16 ish with the 153 and 111 everybody (me included) were quite stoked.

It is a total bummer as they were one of the OG gravity brands. I feel like the market is hyper competitive. Your bikes have to...

It is a total bummer as they were one of the OG gravity brands. I feel like the market is hyper competitive. Your bikes have to look awesome, ride awesome, be on the cutting edge, have a cool story, and your brand has to be an excellent story teller to stay relevant in order to achieve long term success. In the last 7-8 years, I felt as if Kona was just riding the wave of tech and innovation vs being the wave. 

The last interesting bike to pop up was really the 153 in its semi current form in like, 2017/18? that's 8/7 model seasons now worth of falling behind while everyone else is pushing new platforms. How many Slash's have we had since 2018? we've had 3 completely different platforms. The MTB new and cool marketing push is super ridiculous, a bike is basically not even close to current at the end of its production run of 3-5 years but its also usually beat to hell and worth nothing after 5-6 years.

Compare that to road where a bike from 2005 and a non-disk bike from 2024 are still reasonably comparable in performance and parts. Road/Gravel only really picked up a few years ago with bigger tires, thru-axles and disks and really other than aero bullshit, its topping out again. A mid level road or gravel bike will likely be compatible with new parts of the future in 10 years.

That's why it would make sense for Kona to pull a Brodie and double down on their pavement bikes that do well and shunt the MTB's off to pasture. It sucks but a MTB arm of a mid level company I imagine would have way less return on investment due to the speed of change in competitive frames and tech needed from 3rd party companies like suspension tuning to make them worth producing. A pavement or touring bike can be pretty much designed and tweaked in house and then manufactured at the same time. 

4
kperras
Posts
161
Joined
12/19/2012
Location
CA
4/18/2024 12:04pm
jonkranked wrote:

given the larger ratchet rings, i assume that would preclude backwards compatibility with existing hubs, correct?

Correct; it's an all new design. I've been rolling on a set for a while. They have the classic DT fast, smooth operation paired with 0 fuss and easy maintenance. The 90poe and increased durability is a nice update on the existing EXP and LN ratchets.

8
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