Greg was saying he could alter Geo characteristics without affecting another, say can slacken HTA but not BB height, STA etc.... how the fark do you...
Greg was saying he could alter Geo characteristics without affecting another, say can slacken HTA but not BB height, STA etc.... how the fark do you do that? Modular BB shell? I suppose STA doesn't mean a lot in DH but still, bold claim cotton.
It’s curious how Greg (Norco, really) and Neko are saying completely different things. Neko spends two years developing a race bike and concludes you can’t adjust...
It’s curious how Greg (Norco, really) and Neko are saying completely different things. Neko spends two years developing a race bike and concludes you can’t adjust anything independently, every change will affect something else. And complexity breeds its own challenges with marginal performance improvement.
Norco heads in the exact opposite direction, highly complex suspension with claims of independent adjustability. Making those changes in isolation would be so time consuming. To slacken the head angle and keep bb height the same you’ve have to switch out flip chips for both. Changing HA alters your front center, unless you move the BB - which would then change the rear center. According to Neko, any COG changes affect suspension and if you can’t trust Neko, who can you trust?
on a personal level, bikes already require so much maintenance I can’t see buying something complicated for a marginal performance benefit I’m not talented enough to reap. As it stands my bikes need a couple full tear downs and rebuilds a year, which is like a half day job that would cost me $500 to have a shop do it all. Heaven forbid you’ve got headset routing.or more than 4 pivots.
Let's just call Greg's interview what it was - all sales /hype - whereas Neko has pretty much shown he isn't trying to bullshit anyone. Reminds me of when Syndicate went from SRAM/RockShox to Fox - "oh it's the best thing out there!" Steve... Didn't you just say like last week how incredible your suspension was performing?
I'm less of an engineer than Neko, but from listening to many interviews from both him and Greg, it sure seems like the thought process behind the Frameworks design is to prioritize reliability, confidence, and durability. Remember that Frameworks was definitely a semi-privateer venture last year, while Norco has actively recruited top engineers with a budget far greater that Neko's checkbook!
Neko also has been very concerned about being able to manufacture these frames on a small scale while still hitting the required tolerances. I think a lot of the stuff the Norco proto has in it will be incredibly tight for tolerances (like the eccentric machined BB area, the front shock mount, etc.). Neko was having issues with just getting the swingarm to align well with the main triangle, which is why he went to carbon. Every one of those adjustment features built into the frame adds a lot of complexity and demand for strict tolerance. And besides this being an issue with durability, alignment issues can cause real issues with suspension performance.
I've got a bike by a big name with lots of adjustment built into it, and honestly, I'd rather they spent the time getting tighter tolerances. The angle adjust headset cups are really picky about preload and being packed with grease otherwise they creak. The rear end loves to move the linkage bearings, I'm speculating due to a tiny bit of misalignment between the rear and front. But it's nothing obvious enough that I'd be able to win any warranty claim.
It’s curious how Greg (Norco, really) and Neko are saying completely different things. Neko spends two years developing a race bike and concludes you can’t adjust...
It’s curious how Greg (Norco, really) and Neko are saying completely different things. Neko spends two years developing a race bike and concludes you can’t adjust anything independently, every change will affect something else. And complexity breeds its own challenges with marginal performance improvement.
Norco heads in the exact opposite direction, highly complex suspension with claims of independent adjustability. Making those changes in isolation would be so time consuming. To slacken the head angle and keep bb height the same you’ve have to switch out flip chips for both. Changing HA alters your front center, unless you move the BB - which would then change the rear center. According to Neko, any COG changes affect suspension and if you can’t trust Neko, who can you trust?
on a personal level, bikes already require so much maintenance I can’t see buying something complicated for a marginal performance benefit I’m not talented enough to reap. As it stands my bikes need a couple full tear downs and rebuilds a year, which is like a half day job that would cost me $500 to have a shop do it all. Heaven forbid you’ve got headset routing.or more than 4 pivots.
Yes but as I recall one of Neko's primary motivators was that he wasn't constrained by the same things a normal manufacture usually is like profits, marketing, legacy technology, etc etc, and could focus solely on making the best performing bike possible. Norco seems to be in a position to take a similar approach as Neko's, just with considerably more resources, and experience. Their layout is complicated, but it seems to me that being able to isolate and alter each characteristic as independently as possible, will lead to bikes will becoming more refined and reliable in the future.
It’s curious how Greg (Norco, really) and Neko are saying completely different things. Neko spends two years developing a race bike and concludes you can’t adjust...
It’s curious how Greg (Norco, really) and Neko are saying completely different things. Neko spends two years developing a race bike and concludes you can’t adjust anything independently, every change will affect something else. And complexity breeds its own challenges with marginal performance improvement.
Norco heads in the exact opposite direction, highly complex suspension with claims of independent adjustability. Making those changes in isolation would be so time consuming. To slacken the head angle and keep bb height the same you’ve have to switch out flip chips for both. Changing HA alters your front center, unless you move the BB - which would then change the rear center. According to Neko, any COG changes affect suspension and if you can’t trust Neko, who can you trust?
on a personal level, bikes already require so much maintenance I can’t see buying something complicated for a marginal performance benefit I’m not talented enough to reap. As it stands my bikes need a couple full tear downs and rebuilds a year, which is like a half day job that would cost me $500 to have a shop do it all. Heaven forbid you’ve got headset routing.or more than 4 pivots.
Yes but as I recall one of Neko's primary motivators was that he wasn't constrained by the same things a normal manufacture usually is like profits...
Yes but as I recall one of Neko's primary motivators was that he wasn't constrained by the same things a normal manufacture usually is like profits, marketing, legacy technology, etc etc, and could focus solely on making the best performing bike possible. Norco seems to be in a position to take a similar approach as Neko's, just with considerably more resources, and experience. Their layout is complicated, but it seems to me that being able to isolate and alter each characteristic as independently as possible, will lead to bikes will becoming more refined and reliable in the future.
Neko is building the Frameworks brand to sell bikes. Profits and marketing are very much a factor.
It’s curious how Greg (Norco, really) and Neko are saying completely different things. Neko spends two years developing a race bike and concludes you can’t adjust...
It’s curious how Greg (Norco, really) and Neko are saying completely different things. Neko spends two years developing a race bike and concludes you can’t adjust anything independently, every change will affect something else. And complexity breeds its own challenges with marginal performance improvement.
Norco heads in the exact opposite direction, highly complex suspension with claims of independent adjustability. Making those changes in isolation would be so time consuming. To slacken the head angle and keep bb height the same you’ve have to switch out flip chips for both. Changing HA alters your front center, unless you move the BB - which would then change the rear center. According to Neko, any COG changes affect suspension and if you can’t trust Neko, who can you trust?
on a personal level, bikes already require so much maintenance I can’t see buying something complicated for a marginal performance benefit I’m not talented enough to reap. As it stands my bikes need a couple full tear downs and rebuilds a year, which is like a half day job that would cost me $500 to have a shop do it all. Heaven forbid you’ve got headset routing.or more than 4 pivots.
Neko also had an article on PB a little while back stating basically there was no reason to run a mullet and they were objectively not faster than full 29 on a DH course. He’s rad but not everything he says should be taken as irrefutable truth.
Neko also has been very concerned about being able to manufacture these frames on a small scale while still hitting the required tolerances. I think a...
Neko also has been very concerned about being able to manufacture these frames on a small scale while still hitting the required tolerances. I think a lot of the stuff the Norco proto has in it will be incredibly tight for tolerances (like the eccentric machined BB area, the front shock mount, etc.). Neko was having issues with just getting the swingarm to align well with the main triangle, which is why he went to carbon. Every one of those adjustment features built into the frame adds a lot of complexity and demand for strict tolerance. And besides this being an issue with durability, alignment issues can cause real issues with suspension performance.
I've got a bike by a big name with lots of adjustment built into it, and honestly, I'd rather they spent the time getting tighter tolerances. The angle adjust headset cups are really picky about preload and being packed with grease otherwise they creak. The rear end loves to move the linkage bearings, I'm speculating due to a tiny bit of misalignment between the rear and front. But it's nothing obvious enough that I'd be able to win any warranty claim.
The latest PB podcast with Jessie Melamed goes into tolerance issues. Carbon frames coming out of the mold with minor differences (a couple millimeters here and there). And why two “identical” bikes aren’t riding exactly the same. Well worth a listen.
Greg was saying he could alter Geo characteristics without affecting another, say can slacken HTA but not BB height, STA etc.... how the fark do you...
Greg was saying he could alter Geo characteristics without affecting another, say can slacken HTA but not BB height, STA etc.... how the fark do you do that? Modular BB shell? I suppose STA doesn't mean a lot in DH but still, bold claim cotton.
It’s curious how Greg (Norco, really) and Neko are saying completely different things. Neko spends two years developing a race bike and concludes you can’t adjust...
It’s curious how Greg (Norco, really) and Neko are saying completely different things. Neko spends two years developing a race bike and concludes you can’t adjust anything independently, every change will affect something else. And complexity breeds its own challenges with marginal performance improvement.
Norco heads in the exact opposite direction, highly complex suspension with claims of independent adjustability. Making those changes in isolation would be so time consuming. To slacken the head angle and keep bb height the same you’ve have to switch out flip chips for both. Changing HA alters your front center, unless you move the BB - which would then change the rear center. According to Neko, any COG changes affect suspension and if you can’t trust Neko, who can you trust?
on a personal level, bikes already require so much maintenance I can’t see buying something complicated for a marginal performance benefit I’m not talented enough to reap. As it stands my bikes need a couple full tear downs and rebuilds a year, which is like a half day job that would cost me $500 to have a shop do it all. Heaven forbid you’ve got headset routing.or more than 4 pivots.
the complex 6-bar suspension that norco is using allows for more fine tuning due to different bars of the suspension controlling specific kinematics. Neko was adamant about not using a suspension platform any more complex than a 4 bar to reduce production cost and manufacturing complexity. Building a bike is harder than it looks and Neko did it without the big corporation money. Norco had enough money to design, develop, and patent a crazy new dh concept AND sign on Greg. Im sure we can convince Neko to develop a 6 bar bike for the next iteration. Maybe an 8 bar...?
the complex 6-bar suspension that norco is using allows for more fine tuning due to different bars of the suspension controlling specific kinematics. Neko was adamant...
the complex 6-bar suspension that norco is using allows for more fine tuning due to different bars of the suspension controlling specific kinematics. Neko was adamant about not using a suspension platform any more complex than a 4 bar to reduce production cost and manufacturing complexity. Building a bike is harder than it looks and Neko did it without the big corporation money. Norco had enough money to design, develop, and patent a crazy new dh concept AND sign on Greg. Im sure we can convince Neko to develop a 6 bar bike for the next iteration. Maybe an 8 bar...?
Fuck it why not 10 bars? 10 bars. All oversized bearings. Internal shock. Titanium frame. External derailleur cable but internal brake cables through the headset. Proprietary pull shock. And uhhh… dang. I think I got Scott's next Gambler.
Fuck it why not 10 bars? 10 bars. All oversized bearings. Internal shock. Titanium frame. External derailleur cable but internal brake cables through the headset. Proprietary...
Fuck it why not 10 bars? 10 bars. All oversized bearings. Internal shock. Titanium frame. External derailleur cable but internal brake cables through the headset. Proprietary pull shock. And uhhh… dang. I think I got Scott's next Gambler.
You forgot one thing. Suspension lockout wires through the headset.
Greg was saying he could alter Geo characteristics without affecting another, say can slacken HTA but not BB height, STA etc.... how the fark do you...
Greg was saying he could alter Geo characteristics without affecting another, say can slacken HTA but not BB height, STA etc.... how the fark do you do that? Modular BB shell? I suppose STA doesn't mean a lot in DH but still, bold claim cotton.
It’s curious how Greg (Norco, really) and Neko are saying completely different things. Neko spends two years developing a race bike and concludes you can’t adjust...
It’s curious how Greg (Norco, really) and Neko are saying completely different things. Neko spends two years developing a race bike and concludes you can’t adjust anything independently, every change will affect something else. And complexity breeds its own challenges with marginal performance improvement.
Norco heads in the exact opposite direction, highly complex suspension with claims of independent adjustability. Making those changes in isolation would be so time consuming. To slacken the head angle and keep bb height the same you’ve have to switch out flip chips for both. Changing HA alters your front center, unless you move the BB - which would then change the rear center. According to Neko, any COG changes affect suspension and if you can’t trust Neko, who can you trust?
on a personal level, bikes already require so much maintenance I can’t see buying something complicated for a marginal performance benefit I’m not talented enough to reap. As it stands my bikes need a couple full tear downs and rebuilds a year, which is like a half day job that would cost me $500 to have a shop do it all. Heaven forbid you’ve got headset routing.or more than 4 pivots.
the complex 6-bar suspension that norco is using allows for more fine tuning due to different bars of the suspension controlling specific kinematics. Neko was adamant...
the complex 6-bar suspension that norco is using allows for more fine tuning due to different bars of the suspension controlling specific kinematics. Neko was adamant about not using a suspension platform any more complex than a 4 bar to reduce production cost and manufacturing complexity. Building a bike is harder than it looks and Neko did it without the big corporation money. Norco had enough money to design, develop, and patent a crazy new dh concept AND sign on Greg. Im sure we can convince Neko to develop a 6 bar bike for the next iteration. Maybe an 8 bar...?
Looks like we won't be seeing updated full models for at least a year, more likely 2+. Ripley V4 dropped in 2019. If they're releasing this rear triangle without a whole new bike, V5 is likely at least a year off. Meaning 2025.... 6 (or more) years for a model, un-changed. You didn't ever see that from the ~2010-2022 timeframe when bikes were constantly being updated and changed with the latest and greatest. As I said, evolution is slowing down a ton. For engineering reasons, but also being made worse by the market hurting badly.
Looks like we won't be seeing updated full models for at least a year, more likely 2+. Ripley V4 dropped in 2019. If they're releasing this...
Looks like we won't be seeing updated full models for at least a year, more likely 2+. Ripley V4 dropped in 2019. If they're releasing this rear triangle without a whole new bike, V5 is likely at least a year off. Meaning 2025.... 6 (or more) years for a model, un-changed. You didn't ever see that from the ~2010-2022 timeframe when bikes were constantly being updated and changed with the latest and greatest. As I said, evolution is slowing down a ton. For engineering reasons, but also being made worse by the market hurting badly.
I'm not sure.....supposedly, the updated Ripmo was already set to launch and they opted to hold it back. (likely to clear excess inventory)
Ibis currently shows 25% off factory sales on Ripmo, Ripley, and Exie. Normally, that would mean clearing the way for new models. However, these days I honestly don't know if it means anything...
It’s curious how Greg (Norco, really) and Neko are saying completely different things. Neko spends two years developing a race bike and concludes you can’t adjust...
It’s curious how Greg (Norco, really) and Neko are saying completely different things. Neko spends two years developing a race bike and concludes you can’t adjust anything independently, every change will affect something else. And complexity breeds its own challenges with marginal performance improvement.
Norco heads in the exact opposite direction, highly complex suspension with claims of independent adjustability. Making those changes in isolation would be so time consuming. To slacken the head angle and keep bb height the same you’ve have to switch out flip chips for both. Changing HA alters your front center, unless you move the BB - which would then change the rear center. According to Neko, any COG changes affect suspension and if you can’t trust Neko, who can you trust?
on a personal level, bikes already require so much maintenance I can’t see buying something complicated for a marginal performance benefit I’m not talented enough to reap. As it stands my bikes need a couple full tear downs and rebuilds a year, which is like a half day job that would cost me $500 to have a shop do it all. Heaven forbid you’ve got headset routing.or more than 4 pivots.
the complex 6-bar suspension that norco is using allows for more fine tuning due to different bars of the suspension controlling specific kinematics. Neko was adamant...
the complex 6-bar suspension that norco is using allows for more fine tuning due to different bars of the suspension controlling specific kinematics. Neko was adamant about not using a suspension platform any more complex than a 4 bar to reduce production cost and manufacturing complexity. Building a bike is harder than it looks and Neko did it without the big corporation money. Norco had enough money to design, develop, and patent a crazy new dh concept AND sign on Greg. Im sure we can convince Neko to develop a 6 bar bike for the next iteration. Maybe an 8 bar...?
Do you know any engineer that has podiumed at a World Cup? Not sure a degree is better than tires in the trenches
Cesar Rojo?
Fabien Barel
Let's just call Greg's interview what it was - all sales /hype - whereas Neko has pretty much shown he isn't trying to bullshit anyone. Reminds me of when Syndicate went from SRAM/RockShox to Fox - "oh it's the best thing out there!" Steve... Didn't you just say like last week how incredible your suspension was performing?
I'm less of an engineer than Neko, but from listening to many interviews from both him and Greg, it sure seems like the thought process behind the Frameworks design is to prioritize reliability, confidence, and durability. Remember that Frameworks was definitely a semi-privateer venture last year, while Norco has actively recruited top engineers with a budget far greater that Neko's checkbook!
Neko also has been very concerned about being able to manufacture these frames on a small scale while still hitting the required tolerances. I think a lot of the stuff the Norco proto has in it will be incredibly tight for tolerances (like the eccentric machined BB area, the front shock mount, etc.). Neko was having issues with just getting the swingarm to align well with the main triangle, which is why he went to carbon. Every one of those adjustment features built into the frame adds a lot of complexity and demand for strict tolerance. And besides this being an issue with durability, alignment issues can cause real issues with suspension performance.
I've got a bike by a big name with lots of adjustment built into it, and honestly, I'd rather they spent the time getting tighter tolerances. The angle adjust headset cups are really picky about preload and being packed with grease otherwise they creak. The rear end loves to move the linkage bearings, I'm speculating due to a tiny bit of misalignment between the rear and front. But it's nothing obvious enough that I'd be able to win any warranty claim.
Yes but as I recall one of Neko's primary motivators was that he wasn't constrained by the same things a normal manufacture usually is like profits, marketing, legacy technology, etc etc, and could focus solely on making the best performing bike possible. Norco seems to be in a position to take a similar approach as Neko's, just with considerably more resources, and experience. Their layout is complicated, but it seems to me that being able to isolate and alter each characteristic as independently as possible, will lead to bikes will becoming more refined and reliable in the future.
Neko is building the Frameworks brand to sell bikes. Profits and marketing are very much a factor.
Neko's flip chips are named "Frank The Welder"
Neko also had an article on PB a little while back stating basically there was no reason to run a mullet and they were objectively not faster than full 29 on a DH course. He’s rad but not everything he says should be taken as irrefutable truth.
Heard they were playing around with AL and longer travel, but wasn't expecting double crown stuff.
Or 5DEV
The latest PB podcast with Jessie Melamed goes into tolerance issues. Carbon frames coming out of the mold with minor differences (a couple millimeters here and there). And why two “identical” bikes aren’t riding exactly the same. Well worth a listen.
the complex 6-bar suspension that norco is using allows for more fine tuning due to different bars of the suspension controlling specific kinematics. Neko was adamant about not using a suspension platform any more complex than a 4 bar to reduce production cost and manufacturing complexity. Building a bike is harder than it looks and Neko did it without the big corporation money. Norco had enough money to design, develop, and patent a crazy new dh concept AND sign on Greg. Im sure we can convince Neko to develop a 6 bar bike for the next iteration. Maybe an 8 bar...?
Fuck it why not 10 bars? 10 bars. All oversized bearings. Internal shock. Titanium frame. External derailleur cable but internal brake cables through the headset. Proprietary pull shock. And uhhh… dang. I think I got Scott's next Gambler.
Yeti bringing out a new bike. Return of the SB100? It’s got small rotors, single crown fork, and what looks like Rekon or Rekon Race tire combo.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C2ax3meRLk7/?igsh=M2l2cnkzcWVwaG55
You forgot one thing. Suspension lockout wires through the headset.
Why not just go full roadie tech and run everything through the bars and stem? I swear I've seen a photo.
The Norco is a 4bar...
So 2023, lockout is wireless, just like the brakes. Processor for the ABS is in the frame.
New Ibis Ripmo AF and Ripley AF are live: https://www.ibiscycles.com/bikes/ripley-af
The only difference I see is UDH and new colors.
I think Jesse Melamed is also an engineer.
Kind of a bummer they didn't get the HD6's new lines.
I'm pretty sure Loic studied mechanical engineering in university, as well
Loris must certainly have a master's in engineering.
https://m.pinkbike.com/news/the-fantabulous-loris-vergier-soundboard-us…
Damn i was hoping they will at least do something with that top tube like on HD6 🥲
Looks like we won't be seeing updated full models for at least a year, more likely 2+. Ripley V4 dropped in 2019. If they're releasing this rear triangle without a whole new bike, V5 is likely at least a year off. Meaning 2025.... 6 (or more) years for a model, un-changed. You didn't ever see that from the ~2010-2022 timeframe when bikes were constantly being updated and changed with the latest and greatest. As I said, evolution is slowing down a ton. For engineering reasons, but also being made worse by the market hurting badly.
I'm not sure.....supposedly, the updated Ripmo was already set to launch and they opted to hold it back. (likely to clear excess inventory)
Ibis currently shows 25% off factory sales on Ripmo, Ripley, and Exie. Normally, that would mean clearing the way for new models. However, these days I honestly don't know if it means anything...
you seen their latest prototype?