Hopefully this will be a little different to the usual to eeb or not to eeb thread/debate due to the age thing
Was chatting to a couple of mates about this on the weekend while out on the bikes
I’m 32, riding most weekends (pretty much fire road climbs then downhill tracks) and keeping fit and healthy in the week - the eeb temptation is not coming from a lack of fitness reason, or a need of help to finish longer rides - it would purely be used as a self shuttle machine to take advantage of the highway style fire road climbs and cram as much descent into a ride at possible
I live in South Wales in the UK, full of amazing riding spots all of which are pretty much fire road climbs then a great variety of descents - some bigger hills providing around 4-5 mins descent
99% of our riding mates are still on normal bikes, but a few of us are throwing the “I’ll get one when I’m 40” remark out there which seems more than reasonable to me, we’ll have earnt it by then 😂
However this is the debate that’s going over in my head - would I regret not getting one sooner while I’m riding the most I’ve ever ridden in my life and probably riding at my best I realistically ever will? (all relative mind, I’m by no means going to win anything 😂)
The nerves will surely start to settle in towards the late 30’s/early 40’s, and the purpose of it being purely a self shuttle machine would almost seem a bit wasted by then if the riding has calmed down somewhat and the rides might have changed by then to not be purely about the descents?
I don’t think I’d be interested in an eeb for all day adventure rides due to worrying about something going wrong or running out of battery and being left with a 50lb paperweight to get home with, and it’s more satisfying doing those adventures under your own power in my opinion. It would be purely for smashing up fire roads and down downhill tracks.
Its a big investment too - I’d almost certainly have to sell one of my bikes to make funds and space for it if I ever did go down the eeb route, but the bike that it would realistically replace (my enduro bike) is my pride and joy.
I’ve got:
180/170 Nomad enduro bike which is my main ride
140/140 Sentinel trail bike which I’ve nearly finished building - the “keeping fit at trail centres when the proper tracks are underwater” bike
DH bike - it’s my restored IH Sunday which will only get ridden for some nostalgia 10-15 times a year I expect
DJ bike - something to go to the pump track with in the summer and indoor skatepark in the winter evenings to get some bike time in when the weather is at its worst
Has anyone else gone through a similar debate in their head?
Pros:
Make the most of descents in a ride
Self shuttle capacity
Make the most of the time after work when the nights are drawing in
Easy option to take if the weather is absolutely awful - don the full waterproofs and not worry about boiling over riding in them
Easy option to take if sore/tired out from previous rides in the week
Cons:
They still seem unreliable AF in the long run if they are ridden in anger - my mate’s Kenevo SL seems to be breaking at least once per month, once the motor warranty runs out you’re essentially left with a ticking time bomb?
Expensive outlay and maintenance - motor issues above and also increased wear on drivetrain/wheels/tyres/brakes/suspension/everything really 😂
They are still improving them but the innovation has slowed down a bit, save for the new SRAM motor or the bosch race motor it seems - surely if I did indeed wait until my late 30’s, e bikes will be even more capable and reliable by then, probably lighter too
Would have to sell up existing bike most likely which I only finished building up last year
Can anyone think of any other pro/cons? Reckon mid 30’s would be the sweet spot for getting one? Another few years would ease the pain of selling the enduro bike and possibly allow to save up enough to not have to do it altogether.
Interested to hear people’s thoughts!
I can almost double the amount of climbing I do in the same time on my KSL. Big days out can churn out 1500ft/hr
Not a fan of the full fats as they ride like crap. The KSL for me is the right amount of assistance.
As far as reliability, I'll be on motor number 4. Which is atrocious, but Specialized have been great, quick turnaround. On close to 4000miles and 800kft of climbing
I got one when I was 35, already married but got 2-3 years of massive rides on the weekend before having to deal with kids. I would say, if you want to maintain the km/vert once you have a kid, and have some energy left over, e-bike is the perfect solution.
That said, I know a group of younger guys in their late 20s that little by little converted to ebikes after being podium contenders in regional enduro. The days they do on strava are just nuts, they are off exploring massive loops, no problem doing multiple days in a row with thousands of meters of climbing etc.
The reliability isn't that bad, so long as you don't get a specialised or shimano EP8. The big thing, as you have identified, is the overall cost: You need to put down 6k minimum for something with ok spec even with the current fire sales, and forget about having any resale value if you ride even a moderate amount.
Only reason I could see for waiting would be that in 5-6 years maybe solid state batteries will have made their way onto bikes, so we will have better range and significantly lower weight. Ideally, motors will be even more reliable so that the resale value doesn't plummet quite as much...
I don’t think you can handle it.
Do you have access to any demos? That's the route I'd go personally.
regardless of what the clowns say, its only time when you start valuing the Fun aspect of MTB more, Hate towards ebikers is pathetic, they just want to enjoy themselves without busting their ass for atleast a year and then still get out done by ebikers in both climbing and fun.
I will often buy an ebike for the winter, so i can ride at night much easier and quicker.
You do you. I am happy to ride a regular bike and rides with over 1000m vert on a regular basis and I’m in my mid 40’s. I have ridden with guys in their 80’s that are still sending drops and logging decent miles on a regular bike. Age has nothing to do with it.
Whenever you feel like it! I can see the appeal for anyone who is limited on time especially, since that issue compounds with a lack of fitness making it harder to enjoy the limited time you do get.
The other thing that appeals about ebikes is the way it could make either boring trails super fun, or super slow, janky technical ones actually rideable. Either way its not really an age thing, just do whatever feels right for you
I do agree on your cons though - the biggest issue remaining is the cost and reliability - there doesn't appear to be much in the way of long term support for motors which WILL become a major problem sooner rather than later. That would be my biggest concern about investing in one right now. A lot of people sell them on after a season but then you are kind of passing that problem off to someone else and people are already wary of buying used ebikes so thats not exactly viable either
Do we ride for fun or for some ego trip. Im late 20s and I ride 50/50 ebike/bike. Its just different and fun in its own way and gets me riding out on almost every >25f day even if Im time limited. Also I usually get a new bike every year but with the Ebike covid hit and I didnt want to sell and not get anything, so Ive been on a kenevo for 3 years riding it pretty hard and its never failed me other than exploding a hub.
the answer is you should have bought one yesterday
I'm a big proponent of them, I got my first one in 2018 and have enjoyed literally 10's of thousands kilometers of good times.
It's a simple question, do you ride for fun? Do you want to see new locations, explore? Do you want to ride to the trails from home? Are you short on time? If you answer yes to one or more of those, a e-mtb will be great.
I still have an aggressive steel hardtail, and I love riding that too. But e-mtb re-ignited my passion for bikes again, I feel like I'm a grom all over again. I can escape for those 2 hours, get in a huge amount of riding and be totally spent and get back to the responsibilities of adult/father life.
As far as reliability goes, I had a shimano E8000 make some loud noises at approx 6000km's and it was replaced quickly, my current bike which is an EP8 and 5000km's old is fine.
You will go through chains and cassettes a bit quicker, also tyres if you ride from home to the trails.
As far as hate, it's like water off a ducks back to me, I'm old and don't give a f&*k what people think anymore. I out riding, having fun and been active. My friends support me and if I ride with them on a traditional bike, I just put it in Eco and ride along with them. Don't be that dick that takes off and waits up the top of the hill.
My big tip, get one with a lot of travel, full powered but light as possible with a good spec. My current bike (Norco Range VLT) is a weapon, but weighs 30kg with cushcore, dh tyres and coil suspension, thats 66lb's in cheeseburger units! It's too heavy despite me been a big lad.
Something around that 22-24kg mark with a full powered motor and 620W+ battery is perfect!
okay yeah real answer is for me is the eeb has distilled my riding experience to the fun parts, and widened the scope of what's fun to ride. I'm down to ride any dumb trail now, because even climbs are bonkers. Some of these purpose-built climbing trails around here have fun corners ON THE WAY UP dude. Cmon. Instead of 4mph slogs up never ending switchbacks, it's hoots and hollers and trying to hit uphill braking points.
Not only am I dropping in to the fun trails in half the time, but I get to try my hardest because I have way more of my energy for the downs, and I can recover on climbs. Not roached on the deproach. I've become a way better rider, having probably seen more trail miles in the past four years than in the 15 years prior. Cardio's not as high but strength is on boost mode. Wrangling a fullpower eeb around. I get to wear full faces and pants way more often. Goggles most rides. Cmon. DH tires.
Love it.
Racers get to hone technique. Right to the point. Ride that trail five times in a row.
Time-wise, roasting a full ride after work is possible. Go see the sunset from a spot that'd have you sleeping in an emergency blanket on a classical bike ride. I can also show up solo to the shuttle trails with two batteries and get in more runs than if I had my own John Hall driving me in a truck. Unreal!
The remaining loud anti-eebers are the most fragile. I get it. They're those first ones, still, too. The fast guys and the temporarily slowed who have adopted what they think are the fragile fast guys' opinions... The metric by which they've self-confirmed their success is almost completely ignored by the gonzo eMTB approach. And that can be scary if you still care. If you're still clinging on to some fundamental shit. I'm not there everywhere (I'll still scream death threats out the car at an innocent kid pushing mongo on his skateboard), but at least for riding bikes around I'm off that.
The march of the eeb cannot be stopped. They're just too good!
So. Cons:
they are expensive. Still at about, what?--1000 to 1500 bucks more than an equivalent pedalbike? 2000? Worth five times that difference to me! But they have cured me of most weight-weenie-ism and spec-lust...I'm absolutely fine with a 35 pound aluminum trail lbike that I'd've called a "tank" five years ago. My idea of what matters in a bike has totally shifted down-spec...
I do wish there was more standardization across batteries and motors. That'd be better for sure. But bike people are in charge so I'm not holding my breath.
eBiking is the same, but it's not the same. If you are a fun person, a person who enjoys bombing down hills, you won't do your same rides. You'll do them twice, and again tomorrow. Even after a few months off the bike, you can hop straight into a mega epic. I don't even pay attention to mileage or duration anymore, as the vibe has taken over. Rambling eco mode adventure ride or DH attack mode...
as for OP's title question, too: I don't think it's an age thing either. I am old, of course, so that's what you'd expect me to say, but I can only imagine what'd be possible if I had one of these things when I was 30!
I will say it's rad to see questions like this though. The uncreative blind hate that was around only a couple years ago is gone. Exposure has done it.
ebikes rule.
OH AND ANOTHER THING
I turn 47 in a few months, no plan to get one anytime in the next 3-4 years. Live on the Shore with Fromme as my go to riding straight from home and have two kids. On paper I am the ideal e-bike buyer but it's not happening. I do love my e-cargo bike for hauling the kids to school and errands. Current riding goals are to be fitter and faster now than I was a decade ago.
Subscribing to this to return later. :D
so your answer is 52?
Giving it more thought, tack on another 6-8 years on the 52. I dig the technology on them from a bike nerd perspective but still have a much stronger desire to develop my personal fitness.
@ 55 i still have no interest in the devices, but riding is my primary source of fitness & i'm fortunate enough to have close access to great trails & the opportunity to ride pretty much every day. i can kinda / sorta rationalize them as a retirement tool - many more hours to ride, and an inevitable lengthening recovery time.
as a consummate cheap ass bastard, i'm also wary that the tech is still rapidly changing & non standardized with dubious durability & long term support. hopefully by the time i'm in the market, we'll have pretty well refined products (with commonly available integrated gearboxes, of course).
today if you didn’t buy one yesterday
Question for the folks doing big backcountry rides on e-bikes: How do you handle hike a bike sections?
Some of the best/my favorite riding around me requires mandatory hike a bike sections to get to the good stuff. And no, this isn't a case of me being able to ride it on an e-bike vs my regular mtb. The shorter sections are like 400-500' (150m) of elevation over the course of a 1/4 mile (400m), lots of big loose rocks and roots. For context, I've struggled to get up these same sections on my KTM 250 two stroke.
I know e-bikes have walk modes, but are they effective in these conditions?
I also have concerns about range. My e-bike riding experience has been extremely limited, but I have not been impressed by the range at all. For instance, I was able to drain the 900Wh battery on a Canyon Spectral:ON from fully charged to one bar remaining in just 20 miles (32km) and about 2,000' (600m) of climbing. The trails were a little slippery and I weigh 210 lbs, but even so, I felt disappointed by the range. That's a pretty typical ride for me so the only benefit (?) is that I could do it faster. But that's not what I would want out of an e-bike. I want to be able to double or even triple my typical ride without needing a spare battery.
Right now, the best use case I can personally come up with would be to have an e-bike for hammering out after work rides on the local trails. Those trails can get a little boring and tedious on a regular mtb since I've been riding them for 15 years, but the practical side of me says that's a silly reason to get an e-bike.
I'm e-curious but I feel like there's a big gap between what I want out of an e-bike and where they currently are in their development.
It's not about age (I'm a reasonably decent pedaler at 52 and am fine on my bike) it's about increasing your fun.
Sorry but pedaling up a dirt road is just overall lame, and when you get an e-bike you'll realize that wasting any extra moments doing it is just dumb.
shimano's walk mode has always worked for me, ep8's better than e8000...the first eMTB I had (e8000 motor) required you to shift to a really high gear for it to function--which would put you in too high of a gear when your route became pedalable again, so if your climb went from steep to too steep and back again, it was a nuisance. But they do work. When it's really steep and footholds are difficult, the bike can loop out and the delay to initiate the mode can be troublesome too. Biggest problem though really is ETF, Extreme Thumb Fatigue, since you're required to have constant pressure on the button. No joke. You'll be trying to keep up with 2.8mph, arms stretched all wild and your bum shoulder is trying to pop out but you gotta keep pressing the mode button hahahaha
55 pounds of bike is definitely harder to get up shelves and shit too.
Most ebikes have a walk mode that allows you to hike a bike but i just manhandle the bike, thats part of the ride and good exercise. for what it's worth, we've been building trails that cater to ebikes, steep ups and downs, some hike a bike because they're too steep to pedal up.
Not sure about your range, temperature plays big part, though. I noticed I was getting significantly less range when it gets close to 40F. When I ride Sky Tavern, I can get in 8 laps in 2 hours and about 5k of vertical, mostly in trail mode, if i use boost the range goes down, obviously. on backcountry trails, depending on the type, i can get 30 miles in 90% trail, 10% boost. I'm 180 kit on riding a 180f/170r 54lb bike with a 640w battery.
I was anti-ebike for a long time, mostly because of the weight, but i've found that I actually like the ride quality of the heavy bike, It's so planted but its still manueverable. Sure, it's harder to get in the air but you get used to it, i've definitely gained muscle mass in my hips, back, shoulders. I still ride my pedal bikes just as much as my ebike, mostly for the pedal fitness aspect. If i didn't care about that I doubt i'd ever ride a pedal bike again. Ebikes just open so much more fun up to me.
I waited to jump in until the bike I wanted to ride was available, I want as much travel as possible with excellent geo. New ebikes just keep getting better, I have my eye on a GasGas, thing looks so sick.
lastly, I turned 56 last July and just don't have the same desire to kill myself pedaling. I've been riding MTB's since 1989 and ebikes have pretty much rejuvenated me to get out and do long rides.
cheers!
Hoo shit, that sounds tough! Although being a novice moto rider I've grown accustomed to picking a heavy bike up off the ground. The super steep sections are what I'm most concerned with. Right now I use my bike as a winch: roll it forward, grab the brakes, take a couple steps, repeat.
Agreed on the new GasGas models, they are among the best looking e-bikes out right now in my opinion.
and yeah: weight definitely matters. One of my favorite ebike anecdotes is my friend griping about the decreased range on his longtail cargo beast...he found himself having to charge it way more often than he had the year previous, taking his kid to school and back...turns out it wasn't just the 10 pounds he'd put on, but his son doubled in size too!
Fresh batteries same bike same ride same cadence: I'll drop a battery bar before my friend. I have 30 pounds on him. Just like muscle biking, it pays to be a little guy.
I know this all too well. Lost a shit ton of weight during covid times since I was riding ALL the time, eating most meals at home, and stopped drinking. Was down almost 40 lbs at my lightest. Not only did I feel better, but my bike did too. The suspension worked so much better running significantly lower pressure. A good ol' fashioned L5/S1 back injury kept me off the bike for most of last year and I regained most of that weight. Climbing out of that hole now...
I find walk mode pretty pointless besides walking up stairs.
Usually when you find a grade that is steep enough to require it, the rear tyre just spins if it's semi loose (all of australia) especially if your tyre is a little sad and worn.
A few years ago, I swore I wasn't going to get one until I was 50 and my kid was old enough to want to be towed uphill. Then one of my buddies bought one for fun and trail work, and I tried it. By the end of that 3 day trip borrowing it, I was shopping online for one. I've had one for just over a year now.
Basically, the right time is:
* when you can afford it
* when your time to get out and ride is limited, and you mostly care about the downhill
* if you've got local trails you can use it on without issues
* if you do a lot of trail work
I will say that my fitness has decreased less than I expected (I try to alternate enduro bike & ebike, health data shows my VO2 max is trending up, can still go out on longer pedals fine). My riding skill has increased faster than I expected (due to my riding distance going up by at least 50%-75%). It's fun, I'm glad I got it, but I wouldn't want to only have an ebike. Also, motor reliability has a long way to go.
i do alpine stuff with my sl ebike. you either use the walk mode or you carry the bike up on your shoulders when it gets too steep
This has been nearly the exact same experience I've had. I'm 44 and swore I'd never own one and then all my riding buddies got ebikes... What I've learned is it's helped my riding more than I could have ever imagined. I now ride 4-5 days a week (vs 2-3 days a week prior to owning it) and split my time 50/50 between ebike and enduro bike. My fitness has actually improved and my riding confidence is at a consistently higher level than before simply because I can ride so much more.
For me the biggest benefit is that most of my riding consists of long climbs just to hit DH laps, so I can now get 3-4 laps in plus a bonus trail on the ebike (20+ miles) vs. 1-2 laps on the enduro (10 miles) before I'm out of time.
I think it goes without saying, but the one thing that allows me to seamlessly go between 2 different bikes day to day is I've set up my enduro bike (Megatower) and my ebike (Turbo Levo) nearly identically. Same cockpit, components and suspension. The Levo is even outfitted w/ a Cascade link to up the travel and a 170mm fork to match my enduro setup.
Hell yeah, I wish I had bought into ebikes when I lived in Moorpark and was riding/digging with Nate and company! I miss RP so much.
Nudging 60, no plans yet. Not particularly fit relative to younger riders, but I'm still stoked to get out and ride (just bought my first DH bike last year). I guess when I'm too old to ride my MTB I'll probably get a gravel bike to stay fit and call it quits. I mostly ride solo, or guiding kids groups with our local MTB club so I rarely ride with folk on e-bikes.
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