MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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dolface
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1/18/2024 2:43pm
Also its a 6 bar, interesting to see more and more companies move to 6 bar to get better adjustment over anti-squat in particular. I cant...

Also its a 6 bar, interesting to see more and more companies move to 6 bar to get better adjustment over anti-squat in particular.

I cant see to much adjustments other than dropouts and BB? I guess the links can all be adjusted

boozed wrote:

It looks like a linkage driven inverted Horst to me

And it looks like a squishy boing-boing to me...

Can we please NOT have another nerd-fight about suspension layout names...?

33
1/18/2024 3:24pm Edited Date/Time 1/18/2024 3:25pm
Also its a 6 bar, interesting to see more and more companies move to 6 bar to get better adjustment over anti-squat in particular. I cant...

Also its a 6 bar, interesting to see more and more companies move to 6 bar to get better adjustment over anti-squat in particular.

I cant see to much adjustments other than dropouts and BB? I guess the links can all be adjusted

boozed wrote:

It looks like a linkage driven inverted Horst to me

dolface wrote:

And it looks like a squishy boing-boing to me...

Can we please NOT have another nerd-fight about suspension layout names...?

But this is tech rumors, speculating on suspension linkage is like half the fun? We're doing it politely this time anyway.

I can't tell how the "chainstay pivot" and dropout is attached, im presuming the dropout is bolted to the chainstay, so it can't be an inverted horst then (i think?)
But more importantly there are 1 or 2 links denominated "18" and "22" in the graphic so its got too many links to be inverted horst.

 

All i know is that i won't be buying it, because CBF the servicing time, or cost of that many bearings and links.



 

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Uncle Cliffy
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1/18/2024 3:55pm
But this is tech rumors, speculating on suspension linkage is like half the fun? We're doing it politely this time anyway. I can't tell how the...

But this is tech rumors, speculating on suspension linkage is like half the fun? We're doing it politely this time anyway.

I can't tell how the "chainstay pivot" and dropout is attached, im presuming the dropout is bolted to the chainstay, so it can't be an inverted horst then (i think?)
But more importantly there are 1 or 2 links denominated "18" and "22" in the graphic so its got too many links to be inverted horst.

 

All i know is that i won't be buying it, because CBF the servicing time, or cost of that many bearings and links.



 

I’m not going to get into a nerd fight on what design this is called.
 

From what I’ve seen from pictures and video of the prototype bike they’ve been racing, this is just a more refined version of it. They built off the Range design. The Range has a huge bottom bracket rocker that gets pulled on by the chainstay to compress the shock. They’ve effectively eliminated it pivoting around the bottom bracket and made a short link (18) that moves and compresses the upper shock link. (20)

Range blueprint for comparison;

IMG 6182 2.jpeg?VersionId=m8TQVP

I have a Range. Man does it have a lot of bearings. Weighs as much as a tank because of it. This new frame is going to be high maintenance…

5
w4s
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Verdi, NV US
1/18/2024 5:50pm
new things about norco comming soon  

new things about norco comming soon

 

image-20240118143842-1

I'm really trying to wrap my head around the linkage, can somebody smart explain how the linkage is driving the shock?

1/18/2024 5:59pm
Forgive my terrible illustration, but more or less this. I’m guessing in making that lower link much smaller than on the Range they had to get...

Forgive my terrible illustration, but more or less this. I’m guessing in making that lower link much smaller than on the Range they had to get creative to make leverage curve work out and ended up with the linkage driven solution that then had the benefit of more miscellaneous adjustments to play with.IMG 3097

This terrible drawing puts it in line form. Kind of like the Range except the lower link pushes a different link as opposed to directly pushing the shock. 

6
TEAMROBOT
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1/18/2024 6:17pm

Norco's whole schtick in marketing materials and in their patent application is that this unique design allows them to alter the rate of progression of the leverage rate without affecting other suspension parameters. That sounds really cool, but I've looked at every photo in the PB patent article and I don't see any means in their patent for adjusting leverage rate. No flip chips, or adjustable shock mounts, or sliding mounting points, or anything.

Does anyone know how riders on the new Norco downhill bike are supposed to adjust leverage rate? Are they just talking about swapping links entirely, a la Cascade Components links? Or is there an adjustment built into the frame that my eyes aren't seeing?

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chriskief
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1/18/2024 6:32pm
TEAMROBOT wrote:
Norco's whole schtick in marketing materials and in their patent application is that this unique design allows them to alter the rate of progression of the...

Norco's whole schtick in marketing materials and in their patent application is that this unique design allows them to alter the rate of progression of the leverage rate without affecting other suspension parameters. That sounds really cool, but I've looked at every photo in the PB patent article and I don't see any means in their patent for adjusting leverage rate. No flip chips, or adjustable shock mounts, or sliding mounting points, or anything.

Does anyone know how riders on the new Norco downhill bike are supposed to adjust leverage rate? Are they just talking about swapping links entirely, a la Cascade Components links? Or is there an adjustment built into the frame that my eyes aren't seeing?

This?

p5pb25289999

4
brash
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1/18/2024 6:37pm

Greg was saying he could alter Geo characteristics without affecting another, say can slacken HTA but not BB height, STA etc.... how the fark do you do that? Modular BB shell? I suppose STA doesn't mean a lot in DH but still, bold claim cotton.

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boozed
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1/18/2024 7:48pm
TEAMROBOT wrote:
Norco's whole schtick in marketing materials and in their patent application is that this unique design allows them to alter the rate of progression of the...

Norco's whole schtick in marketing materials and in their patent application is that this unique design allows them to alter the rate of progression of the leverage rate without affecting other suspension parameters. That sounds really cool, but I've looked at every photo in the PB patent article and I don't see any means in their patent for adjusting leverage rate. No flip chips, or adjustable shock mounts, or sliding mounting points, or anything.

Does anyone know how riders on the new Norco downhill bike are supposed to adjust leverage rate? Are they just talking about swapping links entirely, a la Cascade Components links? Or is there an adjustment built into the frame that my eyes aren't seeing?

chriskief wrote:
This?

This?

p5pb25289999

Based on its orientation that will change the effective shock length, which affects BB height and where in the leverage curve the suspension operates.  I'm sure the suspension setup has a lot of adjustment elsewhere, though.

1
synBike
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North Vancouver, BC CA
1/18/2024 8:11pm Edited Date/Time 1/18/2024 8:22pm
TEAMROBOT wrote:
Norco's whole schtick in marketing materials and in their patent application is that this unique design allows them to alter the rate of progression of the...

Norco's whole schtick in marketing materials and in their patent application is that this unique design allows them to alter the rate of progression of the leverage rate without affecting other suspension parameters. That sounds really cool, but I've looked at every photo in the PB patent article and I don't see any means in their patent for adjusting leverage rate. No flip chips, or adjustable shock mounts, or sliding mounting points, or anything.

Does anyone know how riders on the new Norco downhill bike are supposed to adjust leverage rate? Are they just talking about swapping links entirely, a la Cascade Components links? Or is there an adjustment built into the frame that my eyes aren't seeing?

The linkage itself is VERY sensitive to adjustments. They could be using a set of different upper links with a few different progression ranges. Alternatively they might have some chip inserts for that same link. I say that link specifically because the point where the dogbone connects has a big influence on the progression AND you can't see the side of it anywhere because it's hidden by the seatmast. FWIW on a factory team I would just have separate links rather than messing about with chips. 

You can see an example of moving that point on the link below highlighted in grey. The two curves show an offset of 1mm forward and a little bit down. By move the point along the radial path of the dogbone there is zero impact on the geo. They get huge props for the tunability of that linkage; I can't think of a more adjustable HP layout (the Specialized bikes notably also have pretty customizable layouts). The below shows a 35% to 38% progression with that 1mm change but I am pretty confident the race bike is nowhere near that progressive. 

image-20240118202226-2

19
metadave
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1/18/2024 11:10pm

nerds

32
1/18/2024 11:40pm
metadave wrote:

nerds

Behold: a mirror

9
1/19/2024 12:27am

Apple is finally ready to release their new Apple Shock for MTB! It will connect to your AppleID and use GPS to automatically adjust your damping to take you to the nearest Starbucks as quickly as possible. Only question is are you getting it in grey or black??

 

 

11
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PellyNH
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1/19/2024 6:32am

Patiently waiting to see when the new Ibis Ripmo and Ripley will start seeing some leaks....maybe even a lightweight e-Ripmo?

3
1
Losifer
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1/19/2024 6:42am
iceman2058 wrote:
Apple is finally ready to release their new Apple Shock for MTB! It will connect to your AppleID and use GPS to automatically adjust your damping...

Apple is finally ready to release their new Apple Shock for MTB! It will connect to your AppleID and use GPS to automatically adjust your damping to take you to the nearest Starbucks as quickly as possible. Only question is are you getting it in grey or black??

 

 

I'm waiting for the limited edition rose gold version.

 

12
Uncle Cliffy
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1/19/2024 6:53am Edited Date/Time 1/19/2024 6:54am


Moar pix from the Norco patent.

IMG 6192.jpeg?VersionId=lAnW

 

IMG 6195
IMG 6196

 

IMG 6194
IMG 6193.jpeg?VersionId=eqMFWt8x

3
mfoga
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Moreno Valley, CA US
1/19/2024 7:02am
iceman2058 wrote:
Apple is finally ready to release their new Apple Shock for MTB! It will connect to your AppleID and use GPS to automatically adjust your damping...

Apple is finally ready to release their new Apple Shock for MTB! It will connect to your AppleID and use GPS to automatically adjust your damping to take you to the nearest Starbucks as quickly as possible. Only question is are you getting it in grey or black??

 

 

I'll wait for the Ti one 😂

4
monarchmason
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Nevada City, CA US
1/19/2024 7:09am
iceman2058 wrote:
Apple is finally ready to release their new Apple Shock for MTB! It will connect to your AppleID and use GPS to automatically adjust your damping...

Apple is finally ready to release their new Apple Shock for MTB! It will connect to your AppleID and use GPS to automatically adjust your damping to take you to the nearest Starbucks as quickly as possible. Only question is are you getting it in grey or black??

 

 

I hate to say this but in 10 years this will be Rockshox with Shockwiz

9
Edthorne
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CA
1/19/2024 8:42am
iceman2058 wrote:
Apple is finally ready to release their new Apple Shock for MTB! It will connect to your AppleID and use GPS to automatically adjust your damping...

Apple is finally ready to release their new Apple Shock for MTB! It will connect to your AppleID and use GPS to automatically adjust your damping to take you to the nearest Starbucks as quickly as possible. Only question is are you getting it in grey or black??

 

 

1st gen uses a proprietary valve and shock pump. Rebound/compression damping is closed all the way once 2nd gen comes out. 

2nd gen has no valve at all. 
 

11
1/19/2024 8:47am
Moar pix from the Norco patent.    


Moar pix from the Norco patent.

IMG 6192.jpeg?VersionId=lAnW

 

IMG 6195
IMG 6196

 

IMG 6194
IMG 6193.jpeg?VersionId=eqMFWt8x

Geeezz, thats impressive!  Did anyone see an axle path graph?

1/19/2024 9:44am
PellyNH wrote:

Patiently waiting to see when the new Ibis Ripmo and Ripley will start seeing some leaks....maybe even a lightweight e-Ripmo?

Likely will see a lightweight E-Ripmo before a the analog bikes since e-bikes are all that's selling right now. 
Ibis is a conservative company. I would guess they're not pushing hard to launch new bikes with small changes into a horrible market. Could be a while before we see new stuff. But I do expect the new bikes to have the new design language which will actually be a big help for them selling units. 

5
1/19/2024 6:05pm

I take back what i said, I couldn't tell from the original patent pick posted that the seat stay is fixed solidly to the seat tube, I thought it was attached to linkage (just has the same axle running through both parts)

Cool suspension tech, I do stand by my other comment, that its an absolute nightmare to service and maintain. Like jesus christ, there is going to be a minimum of 20 bearings in that rear end (maybe some end up being bushings)

chriskief
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1/19/2024 6:17pm
I take back what i said, I couldn't tell from the original patent pick posted that the seat stay is fixed solidly to the seat tube...

I take back what i said, I couldn't tell from the original patent pick posted that the seat stay is fixed solidly to the seat tube, I thought it was attached to linkage (just has the same axle running through both parts)

Cool suspension tech, I do stand by my other comment, that its an absolute nightmare to service and maintain. Like jesus christ, there is going to be a minimum of 20 bearings in that rear end (maybe some end up being bushings)

Right up there with the Enduro.

Screenshot 2024-01-19 at 9.17.09%E2%80%AFPM.png?VersionId=Z.ya4XuzjDX76G8.HO

9
1/19/2024 7:34pm
I take back what i said, I couldn't tell from the original patent pick posted that the seat stay is fixed solidly to the seat tube...

I take back what i said, I couldn't tell from the original patent pick posted that the seat stay is fixed solidly to the seat tube, I thought it was attached to linkage (just has the same axle running through both parts)

Cool suspension tech, I do stand by my other comment, that its an absolute nightmare to service and maintain. Like jesus christ, there is going to be a minimum of 20 bearings in that rear end (maybe some end up being bushings)

chriskief wrote:
Right up there with the Enduro.

Right up there with the Enduro.

Screenshot 2024-01-19 at 9.17.09%E2%80%AFPM.png?VersionId=Z.ya4XuzjDX76G8.HO

Yeah, which is a pain the ass!

One of my best mates works at a specialized dealer and half the time the bearings are absolutely toast and performance suffers because they can't be bothered doing it themselves (i.e owners) and its so expensive in shop to get the replaced when needed (particularly if you ride somewhere wet)

3
Bob Chicken
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1/21/2024 4:49am
PellyNH wrote:

Patiently waiting to see when the new Ibis Ripmo and Ripley will start seeing some leaks....maybe even a lightweight e-Ripmo?

Likely will see a lightweight E-Ripmo before a the analog bikes since e-bikes are all that's selling right now.  Ibis is a conservative company. I would...

Likely will see a lightweight E-Ripmo before a the analog bikes since e-bikes are all that's selling right now. 
Ibis is a conservative company. I would guess they're not pushing hard to launch new bikes with small changes into a horrible market. Could be a while before we see new stuff. But I do expect the new bikes to have the new design language which will actually be a big help for them selling units. 

Dunno man, look at the Oso, hardly "conservative"...

I'd buy a V3 Ripmo tomorrow if they released it, my OG Ripmo has served me well and is still going strong. I have someone in mind who loves bikes but cant afford much who would benefit from having a nice bike.

Someone mentioned March somehwhere on this forum. Have zero interest in an E-Mo.

 

1
fartsack
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咸興市 KP
1/21/2024 5:41am

If this unpublished unreleased thing I saw at scott HQ is the new voltage, fuck me backwards! there is absolutely no reason to buy a ransom anymore! Things thing looks a beast!!! Yes it does have a motor but nevermind.

5
slimshady
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AR
1/21/2024 6:58am Edited Date/Time 1/21/2024 6:59am
fartsack wrote:
If this unpublished unreleased thing I saw at scott HQ is the new voltage, fuck me backwards! there is absolutely no reason to buy a ransom...

If this unpublished unreleased thing I saw at scott HQ is the new voltage, fuck me backwards! there is absolutely no reason to buy a ransom anymore! Things thing looks a beast!!! Yes it does have a motor but nevermind.

Well, are least the model's name would check out...

 

Although turning that legendary freeride/dirt jumping bike line into mopeds would certainly be a shame.

6
Whattheheel
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Spearfish, SD US
1/21/2024 8:16am
PellyNH wrote:

Patiently waiting to see when the new Ibis Ripmo and Ripley will start seeing some leaks....maybe even a lightweight e-Ripmo?

Likely will see a lightweight E-Ripmo before a the analog bikes since e-bikes are all that's selling right now.  Ibis is a conservative company. I would...

Likely will see a lightweight E-Ripmo before a the analog bikes since e-bikes are all that's selling right now. 
Ibis is a conservative company. I would guess they're not pushing hard to launch new bikes with small changes into a horrible market. Could be a while before we see new stuff. But I do expect the new bikes to have the new design language which will actually be a big help for them selling units. 

Dunno man, look at the Oso, hardly "conservative"... I'd buy a V3 Ripmo tomorrow if they released it, my OG Ripmo has served me well and...

Dunno man, look at the Oso, hardly "conservative"...

I'd buy a V3 Ripmo tomorrow if they released it, my OG Ripmo has served me well and is still going strong. I have someone in mind who loves bikes but cant afford much who would benefit from having a nice bike.

Someone mentioned March somehwhere on this forum. Have zero interest in an E-Mo.

 

They will release the new AF’s in the next week or two at most.  I haz seen the email.  

6
stoic_machine
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Dildo, Newfoundland CA
1/21/2024 9:12am

Only been a Few photos of that new YT Tues prototype kicking around but that rear triangle does look redesigned and kinda looks more on an angle and got me thinking... Is there a sneaky mid/high pivot lurking under there? Could a similiar front triangle look be staying as it still fits within the architecture of all their other bikes just with a Modified back end more or less.

I made some lines to demonstrate my thoughts... Don't judge my art haha.PXL 20240121 170725042

 

5
chriskief
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New York, NY US
1/21/2024 10:07am
Only been a Few photos of that new YT Tues prototype kicking around but that rear triangle does look redesigned and kinda looks more on an...

Only been a Few photos of that new YT Tues prototype kicking around but that rear triangle does look redesigned and kinda looks more on an angle and got me thinking... Is there a sneaky mid/high pivot lurking under there? Could a similiar front triangle look be staying as it still fits within the architecture of all their other bikes just with a Modified back end more or less.

I made some lines to demonstrate my thoughts... Don't judge my art haha.PXL 20240121 170725042

 

IMG 7549

Perhaps... but at least on this one, no idler and the linkage is visible under there.

3
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